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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/21/2005 10:19:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 10:19:47 PM EDT by Sewer_Urchin]
I was just talking to a former co-worker that just got picked up by a large Fire Department. As a condition of employment, he has had to undergo a polygraph, background investigation, and work history investigation. Also, he was asked to fill out a one page report on each and every one of his fire arms past and present. Specifically, he was asked where the purchase was made, when and why he owned it. How is this legal? What the hell does my ownership of firearms have to do with my ability to put out fires? I am planning on being a firefighter myself and I don't think it is fair to use my ownership of guns as a factor in my hiring.

It was my understanding that when you purchased a fire arm, it was registered as either a hand gun or a long gun, but the type and model would not be able to be determined. What can be found out about what I have and what are my legal rights here? My current stance will be to say I own these firearms and that I use my AR for competitive shooting and recreation. I would like to divulge as little information on it as possible without being dishonest.

My question is this:

Can they ask me these legally questions and use the answers as a determining factor to hire me?
What can they find out through public records about my guns?
What is the best approach I should take in the case they find out specific models?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:22:12 PM EDT
Thats wild, they get to ask you about your personal life......and then give you a lie detector test to verify what you said
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:22:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 10:23:29 PM EDT by Triumph955i]
They can ask anything they want.

As long as it doesnt cross the PC line. sexual preference, race,color ..equal employment crap.

My advice. Tell them the notorious 22lr and 38 special routine. Let the polygraph spike...and smile.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:23:52 PM EDT
Phased plasma rifle in the forty watt range, purchased from a crack dealer in compton for the purpose of "showing those bitches not to mess with me".
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:39:24 PM EDT
What can someone learn about my firearms by looking at public record? Is my first assertion correct in that all they know is that it was a "long gun"?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:41:57 PM EDT
Tell 'em it's none of their fuckin' business.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:45:25 PM EDT
The answer is yes, they can ask that question and use it as a factor in determining whether or not to hire you.

Just like drug testing -- businesses really have no right inquiring about your personal life, but then again they don't have to give you a job, either.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:45:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sewer_Urchin:
What can someone learn about my firearms by looking at public record? Is my first assertion correct in that all they know is that it was a "long gun"?



Absolutely nada by looking at "Public" records.

And it seems like the most irrelevant ? i've ever heard.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:45:45 PM EDT
If you want the job, tell em.

Just tell them you are a collector and a shooting enthusiast.

You really dont have to tell them the truth that you are preparing for an outbreak of the Zombie virus.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:47:30 PM EDT
I would never work for someone who felt it necessary to invade my personal life in such manner.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:49:52 PM EDT
I don't know "how" they can ask that, but...

If I were in your shoes, and definately wanted to be employed by someplace that does that..

I'd sell all of my weapons right now to my parents / brother / close friend for $1. The only gun I'd keep is my personal protection pistol. I could pass the polygraph, then buy them back once I was hired. The longer you do it before your polygraph, the more comfortable you'll be with the though that they aren't your weapons anymore...that way you can pass without a spike.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:57:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
If you want the job, tell em.

Just tell them you are a collector and a shooting enthusiast.




The questions were asked to screen out the collectors and shooting enthusiasts. Reason why is that the liberals are in charge and they got EEOC hiring practices (affirmative action) and they want to screen out the white, christian, heterosexaul, gunowners, republican types from getting hired.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:59:45 PM EDT
tell them boat accident or 10/22 and a .38. Thats what I'd say
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:03:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sixgun_Symphony:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
If you want the job, tell em.

Just tell them you are a collector and a shooting enthusiast.




The questions were asked to screen out the collectors and shooting enthusiasts. Reason why is that the liberals are in charge and they got EEOC hiring practices (affirmative action) and they want to screen out the white, christian, heterosexaul, gunowners, republican types from getting hired.



I am betting its to screen out the closet tower candidates more than anything. If they really were bent on like you described, all they would have to do is ask one question. "D you own any guns?" No further questions would be needed. If just being a gun owner is all they need, the other questions are pretty pointless.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:04:06 PM EDT
"Collection and Investment" "oh, and for mutant zombies too"
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:09:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:

My advice. Tell them the notorious 22lr and 38 special routine. Let the polygraph spike...and smile.


+1
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:10:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
The answer is yes, they can ask that question and use it as a factor in determining whether or not to hire you.

Just like drug testing -- businesses really have no right inquiring about your personal life, but then again they don't have to give you a job, either.



...and you don't have to choose to work there. Tell em to Foff.

M4-AK

You dont wanna work there.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:12:25 PM EDT
This is a standard question for employment was part of the psych for every police dept. I'm aware of.

And yes it is a negative connotation question along with a few others "are you an evil boogeyman" questions.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:15:16 PM EDT
tell the truth!
as your going down the list of your guns start to touch yourself and begin to get aroused.
When you are getting to the best weapons pull your hard-on out and blow your wad while talking about the best gun you have.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:16:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zardoz:
Tell 'em it's none of their fuckin' business.



Yep.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:19:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sewer_Urchin:
I was just talking to a former co-worker that just got picked up by a large Fire Department. As a condition of employment, he has had to undergo a polygraph, background investigation, and work history investigation. Also, he was asked to fill out a one page report on each and every one of his fire arms past and present. Specifically, he was asked where the purchase was made, when and why he owned it. How is this legal?



If you live in the people's republic of california should this really suprise you?

Got rights? It may vary depending on zip code.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:20:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
This is a standard question for employment was part of the psych for every police dept. I'm aware of.

And yes it is a negative connotation question along with a few others "are you an evil boogeyman" questions.



I was asked this by the psych folks at Bexar County when I got hired there many years ago. I left it blank and when asked about it I fired it back at them " why?"

I then told them I didnt feel the need to disclose this information to them and they were mysteriously okay with it.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:21:54 PM EDT
Simply put N/A in that box. Pretty simple and if they need to ask you in person then you can ask back why is it of any importance.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:22:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
This is a standard question for employment was part of the psych for every police dept. I'm aware of.

And yes it is a negative connotation question along with a few others "are you an evil boogeyman" questions.



BTW, I was looking at going into LE until I saw the questions they asked. Fuck 'em, it's not worth it to me, it's not like I need to work in LE - it's not even really my field, I just wanted to springboard my way into IT security, forensics, etc. but if it requires them to crawl up my ass I have better things to do with my time than to fucking explain my legal and constitutional rights to people that should fucking already know.

Yeah, I'm irritated. Ironically enough, according to my friend that's a federal LEO he did not have as hard of a time. It's the local departments that want to crawl up your ass as I understand it.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:22:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
This is a standard question for employment was part of the psych for every police dept. I'm aware of.

And yes it is a negative connotation question along with a few others "are you an evil boogeyman" questions.



I was asked this by the psych folks at Bexar County when I got hired there many years ago. I left it blank and when asked about it I fired it back at them " why?"

I then told them I didnt feel the need to disclose this information to them and they were mysteriously okay with it.



Vague is also good.

I was unsure about how many I had or the details of when or why I got them. I have some guns kinda like I have tools in my shed. I don't think about them that much to know specific details.

I just like to go shooting on occassion sometimes.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:23:48 PM EDT
None of their god damned business and you should politley decline to answer the question. Fuck them you don't need the job that bad,



P.s. I am drunk so I wouldn't take this advice to heart.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:28:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:
None of their god damned business and you should politley decline to answer the question. Fuck them you don't need the job that bad,



P.s. I am drunk so I wouldn't take this advice to heart.



I would.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:29:52 PM EDT
Any time they start asking questions that don't have a bearing on a "bona fide occupational qualification" they are treading on thin ice. If they ask what you feel is an inappropriate question, you can ask "What does that have to do with the job?" You might not get the job, but when you sue for illegal discrimination they are going to have to show what they made their decisions on and if all it was is the not work-related questions they are going to be up the creek.

First off there is likely no known verifiable negative connection or correllation between between firearms ownership and firefighting. ( I expect that there are plenty of firefighters all over the country that have firearms at home. Depose the Chiefs in a variety of cities where hunting is not anthema. Now if they hire someone of another gender or race that was less qualified you can also claim discrimination there.

You hired less qualified candidates on the basis of bogus questions? So were these invalid questions just a screen to cover illegal discrimination, giving you the excuse to hire these less qualified candidates. Can you explain why?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:48:54 PM EDT
It's a cultural thing. In California, they ask you if you've ever owned a firearm. Everywhere else, they ask you if you've ever molested a child. Both are equally revolting to some, depending, as is the case with defining pornography, on the prevailing "community standards."
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:04:06 AM EDT
Just tell 'em there isn't enough room on the form so you're not going to bother filling that part out.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:44:20 AM EDT
Sounds like a liberal B.S. question. I'd say that I consider it a personal question and along the lines of what church I go to, who I voted for last election, and the ones that will make the libs squirm, my sexual preference and view on abortion. If you can, turn it around on them and put them on the defensive.

Ask them if they refuse to hire people of a race they don't like, a religion they don't aprove of, or a sexual preference that's not what they'd like. If you do it right, they may just let you skip the question.
Worth a try if you want the job that bad.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 2:26:27 AM EDT
I kinda like the response that the good guy used in "Enemy of the State", when asked about his sexual history/ex-girlfriend. He put them on the defensive by demanding to know about the sex life of questioners (his bosses). After putting them on the spot, he said it was none of his damn business knowing about their sex life, so it's none of their business knowing about his too. I'd expect to not get the job with such a response though. Time to lawyer up.

Maybe have a free consult with a lawyer who is very knowledgeable about employment issues first. May save you a bunch of grief later on.

Link Posted: 9/22/2005 2:30:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 2:33:07 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]

Originally Posted By Sixgun_Symphony:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
If you want the job, tell em.

Just tell them you are a collector and a shooting enthusiast.




The questions were asked to screen out the collectors and shooting enthusiasts. Reason why is that the liberals are in charge and they got EEOC hiring practices (affirmative action) and they want to screen out the white, christian, heterosexaul, gunowners, republican types from getting hired.



Absolutely.
Tell them it is none of their business.
I think I'd find another dept.


ETA: I've never heard of anyone going "Fireman" at work. Now the Post Oficce is another matter
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 2:34:02 AM EDT
I was going to add that there is generally no "registration" of firearms but then I see you live in "The Peoples Republic of Kalifornistan"-nevermind. Honestly, my advice would be to move to a free state and devote your efforts and tax dollars to a place worth saving.
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