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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:05:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2014 11:05:50 PM EDT by Stoop]
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:08:48 PM EDT
Tag for interest...

I haven't really read much about their effectiveness in combat, but I'd bet they were pretty useful. One flaw was the metal handguard tended to heat up... kinda a silly choice, but I understand the expedience of using stamped metal parts.

The cartridge it used was likely perfectly effective within its intended range of use (<300m).
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:09:06 PM EDT
It is the rifle mikhail copied for the ak.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:10:39 PM EDT
I don't know, but I have always wanted the .22lr version (obviously I would like the real one, but that is a pipe dream.)

Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:11:39 PM EDT
Hitler found out about it when he was talking to field commanders about what equipment they wanted more of.

It was developed and called an "MP" (machine pistol") because he said no more rifle development as it was a waste of resources.

When he found out how effective it was, he authorized wider production and renamed it the "Assault Rifle"

Or so goes the story.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:11:57 PM EDT
I doubt many here have the first hand knowledge you are seeking.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:13:17 PM EDT
The Spanish CETME and HK rifles followed the Stg44. The 7.92x33 was I'm assuming on par with a 7.62x39. Another Russian attempt at duplication.

I've never read anything bad about it, and the Germans weren't in the habit of fielding unreliable rifles. At typical WW2 engagement distances I would rather have a select fire rifle fed from a detachable 30 round mag if given an option.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:13:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JPComanche:
It is the rifle mikhail copied for the ak.
View Quote



No. It's actually not.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:14:06 PM EDT
I don't doubt it was a nifty weapon, but it's "effectiveness" would almost be impossible to quantify.

High Explosives is what won WWII.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:14:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JPComanche:
It is the rifle mikhail copied for the ak.
View Quote

Wrong
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:17:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TylerF:
I don't doubt it was a nifty weapon, but it's "effectiveness" would almost be impossible to quantify.

High Explosives is what won WWII.
View Quote


Watch out, there's a contingent here that thinks it was lend lease trucks to the USSR that won WWII.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:17:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Frank_Castle:



No. It's actually not.
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Originally Posted By Frank_Castle:
Originally Posted By JPComanche:
It is the rifle mikhail copied for the ak.



No. It's actually not.

Yep. Tilt bolt vs rotating bolt is just one difference.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:18:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:18:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:

Wrong
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
Originally Posted By JPComanche:
It is the rifle mikhail copied for the ak.

Wrong


Yep. Wrong. Looks somewhat similar.. but different operating system. The AK is quite a bit simpler, as well.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:18:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2014 11:26:08 PM EDT by mayday]
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?
View Quote


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the FG42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:18:49 PM EDT
I've read about complaints with magazines being damaged and causing feed issues, as well as jams if the rifle wasn't kept clean and oiled.

Beyond that, it seems many units who received them on the Eastern Front requested more of them, so they can't have been total shit.

Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:21:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mayday:


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the Stg42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.
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Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the Stg42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


You are about to get loved tenderly.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:22:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 74novaman:
I've read about complaints with magazines being damaged and causing feed issues, as well as jams if the rifle wasn't kept clean and oiled.
Beyond that, it seems many units who received them on the Eastern Front requested more of them, so they can't have been total shit.

View Quote


This isn't an AR thread.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:22:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:


Yep. Wrong. Looks somewhat similar.. but different operating system. The AK is quite a bit simpler, as well.
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Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
Originally Posted By JPComanche:
It is the rifle mikhail copied for the ak.

Wrong


Yep. Wrong. Looks somewhat similar.. but different operating system. The AK is quite a bit simpler, as well.

Instead of copied I would use the words concept and inspiration. It was a Browning or Winchester design that he copied.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:23:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2014 11:24:44 PM EDT by MonkTx]
Interesting fact I just made up: Harold Matson and Elliot Handler's first design for the ar15 was heavily influenced by the stg 44.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:24:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Frank_Castle:



No. It's actually not.
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Originally Posted By Frank_Castle:
Originally Posted By JPComanche:
It is the rifle mikhail copied for the ak.



No. It's actually not.

Not completely "copied" but the ak falls into the same niche as the stg. A sub 300 yard assault rifle.

Plus hugo schmeisser "assisted" (soviet style) in the development of the ak.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:26:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mayday:


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the Stg42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.
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Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the Stg42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


Man for man, Grand for K98 the US (Canadian) gun was superior.
Belt feds beat us every time.
Submachine guns could be debated on multiple criteria.
Pistols aren't a factor.

The FG42 was cool but not really practical. The Stg was in its own class and obviously the future.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:26:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 74novaman:
I've read about complaints with magazines being damaged and causing feed issues, as well as jams if the rifle wasn't kept clean and oiled.

Beyond that, it seems many units who received them on the Eastern Front requested more of them, so they can't have been total shit.

View Quote


Good point. If they wanted them on the harsh Eastern front than they couldn't have been too bad. Those guys knew their stuff and were ultra combat experienced so their demand for it speaks volumes.

Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:26:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?
View Quote


That rifle was so bad that a boat load of working remnants were confiscated in our last invasion of Iraq. Yeah, they were still using them.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:27:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By dogbert4-1:


That rifle was so bad that a boat load of working remnants were confiscated in our last invasion of Iraq. Yeah, they were still using them.
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Originally Posted By dogbert4-1:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


That rifle was so bad that a boat load of working remnants were confiscated in our last invasion of Iraq. Yeah, they were still using them.


To be fair they were also using mosins.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:29:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2014 11:38:18 PM EDT by bnz42]
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Originally Posted By mayday:


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the FG42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.
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Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the FG42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


To be convincing, you'll have to base your opinion on more than a Utube video. The M-1 Garand, M1911A1, and M-1 carbine were pretty good. What did the Germans have to counter the M2 50. cal? The K98k was obsolescent at the beginning of the war.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:31:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JPComanche:

Not completely "copied" but the ak falls into the same niche as the stg. A sub 300 yard assault rifle.

Plus hugo schmeisser "assisted" (soviet style) in the development of the ak.
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Originally Posted By JPComanche:
Originally Posted By Frank_Castle:
Originally Posted By JPComanche:
It is the rifle mikhail copied for the ak.



No. It's actually not.

Not completely "copied" but the ak falls into the same niche as the stg. A sub 300 yard assault rifle.

Plus hugo schmeisser "assisted" (soviet style) in the development of the ak.

The only thing copied was the concept but the concept of how infantry fight and the tools they use is probably the most copied thing in human history. The VZ58 would be more of a actual copy of the STG.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:31:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:


You are about to get loved tenderly.
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the Stg42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


You are about to get loved tenderly.


Yeah right, from folks that don't know difference between constant recoil from roller-delayed blowback. I doubt it.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:34:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AeroScout23:


Man for man, Grand for K98 the US (Canadian) gun was superior.
Belt feds beat us every time.
Submachine guns could be debated on multiple criteria.
Pistols aren't a factor.

The FG42 was cool but not really practical. The Stg was in its own class and obviously the future.
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Originally Posted By AeroScout23:
Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the Stg42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


Man for man, Grand for K98 the US (Canadian) gun was superior.
Belt feds beat us every time.
Submachine guns could be debated on multiple criteria.
Pistols aren't a factor.

The FG42 was cool but not really practical. The Stg was in its own class and obviously the future.


I don't know -- Larry Vickers may disagree with you. LINK
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:40:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mayday:


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the FG42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.
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Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the FG42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


Germany went to war with the K98 as that was the rifle issued in large number to their regular Army. The U.S. Army went to war the the M1 Garand. Explain to me how the Garand was inferior to the K98?

Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:41:01 PM EDT


Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:42:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:45:05 PM EDT
Yugoslavia issued the Stg to paras into the 80s and as such produced plenty of ammo,plenty of it was sold to Syria.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:45:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:


Germany went to war with the K98 as that was the rifle issued in large number to their regular Army. The U.S. Army went to war the the M1 Garand. Explain to me how the Garand was inferior to the K98?

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Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:
Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the FG42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


Germany went to war with the K98 as that was the rifle issued in large number to their regular Army. The U.S. Army went to war the the M1 Garand. Explain to me how the Garand was inferior to the K98?



He'll post a link to his man crush, Larry Vickers. Because Larry Vickers has a hard on for the FG42.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:47:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
The only thing copied was the concept but the concept of how infantry fight and the tools they use is probably the most copied thing in human history. The VZ58 would be more of a actual copy of the STG.
View Quote

Without the development of the stg, the development of the ak would have gone a completely different way. The rifle that won the ak "contract" was definitely "influenced" by the stg. Theres not much information on the design of the bolt in the 46, but it looks a lot like the tilting bolt assembly in the stg.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:47:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 74novaman:


Was there a shit ton of ammo stored with those guns, or do those guys have 5 rounds a piece?
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They found a cach with like 5000 stgs. There is a YouTube vid on it.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:48:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2014 11:49:24 PM EDT by mayday]
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Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:


Germany went to war with the K98 as that was the rifle issued in large number to their regular Army. The U.S. Army went to war the the M1 Garand. Explain to me how the Garand was inferior to the K98?

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Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:
Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the FG42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


Germany went to war with the K98 as that was the rifle issued in large number to their regular Army. The U.S. Army went to war the the M1 Garand. Explain to me how the Garand was inferior to the K98?



Considering I never said the K98 was superior to the M1; I reject you Fallacy Of Extension. You lack logic my friend. But good luck with all that -- I'm off to bed. Good luck with the circle jerk.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:48:22 PM EDT
It was very effective.

The Germans actually modified their task org based on the STG44.

The German squads were kar98s and an MG42 or maybe two, if you were SS.

In the Volksgrenadier units they liked the STG44 so much that they pushed the MG42s out of the rifle squads, and into a weapons squad, as they realized a squad that was STG44 could generate more suppression and firepower then the traditional squads.

The late war German rifle platoons with squads of assault riflemen and an MG squad has been the more-or-less infantry standard for the last 70 years.

The US had no equivalent but luckily the war ended before the Germans could build enough.

We still kill with HE.

I always thought the FG42 was more like an M14...a good semiauto 7.62 rifle with a 20 round magazine that would have recoiled too much on fully auto...then I saw that video on youtube where they showed how the buttstock compressed on springs under recoil and I think that weapon may be underrated.


Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:48:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By outofbattery:
Yugoslavia issued the Stg to paras into the 80s and as such produced plenty of ammo,plenty of it was sold to Syria.
View Quote









Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:49:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pony151515:


To be fair they were also using mosins.
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Originally Posted By Pony151515:
Originally Posted By dogbert4-1:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


That rifle was so bad that a boat load of working remnants were confiscated in our last invasion of Iraq. Yeah, they were still using them.


To be fair they were also using mosins.


And smith and Wesson 44 Russians

Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:51:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2014 11:52:27 PM EDT by Seven-Shooter]
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Originally Posted By 74novaman:


Was there a shit ton of ammo stored with those guns, or do those guys have 5 rounds a piece?
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Khyber pass, anyone?

Also I would imagine that in countries without as tight of controls on import/export as the U.S., ammo would be much easier.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:51:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:52:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JPComanche:

Without the development of the stg, the development of the ak would have gone a completely different way. The rifle that won the ak "contract" was definitely "influenced" by the stg. Theres not much information on the design of the bolt in the 46, but it looks a lot like the tilting bolt assembly in the stg.
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Originally Posted By JPComanche:
Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
The only thing copied was the concept but the concept of how infantry fight and the tools they use is probably the most copied thing in human history. The VZ58 would be more of a actual copy of the STG.

Without the development of the stg, the development of the ak would have gone a completely different way. The rifle that won the ak "contract" was definitely "influenced" by the stg. Theres not much information on the design of the bolt in the 46, but it looks a lot like the tilting bolt assembly in the stg.


I was wrong, the ak-46 utulized a rotating bolt whose design was then transfered to the 47.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:52:58 PM EDT
I've got plenty of time on an MP44 and they are effective all the way to 500yds (farthest target we had) semi auto you could hit a man sized torso all day with it.....




Shoot 2-4 round bursts out to 300 on the same target. If you didn't hit it you were at least "on it"....and that counted for suppression.

This was with handloads...as there isn't any good surplus for this here in the states...




I wouldn't feel bad having to carry one....

Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:53:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mayday:


Considering I never said the K98 was superior to the M1; I reject you Fallacy Of Extension. You lack logic my friend. But good luck with all that -- if off.
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Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:
Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the FG42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


Germany went to war with the K98 as that was the rifle issued in large number to their regular Army. The U.S. Army went to war the the M1 Garand. Explain to me how the Garand was inferior to the K98?



Considering I never said the K98 was superior to the M1; I reject you Fallacy Of Extension. You lack logic my friend. But good luck with all that -- if off.


The issue is that the Germans made about 14 million kar98s, maybe 400k STG44s, and 10K or so FG42s. So you are incorrect in that "most" German weapons were inferior, if you factor in the likelihood you would see one on the battlefield.

Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:56:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JPComanche:

Without the development of the stg, the development of the ak would have gone a completely different way. The rifle that won the ak "contract" was definitely "influenced" by the stg. Theres not much information on the design of the bolt in the 46, but it looks a lot like the tilting bolt assembly in the stg.
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Originally Posted By JPComanche:
Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
The only thing copied was the concept but the concept of how infantry fight and the tools they use is probably the most copied thing in human history. The VZ58 would be more of a actual copy of the STG.

Without the development of the stg, the development of the ak would have gone a completely different way. The rifle that won the ak "contract" was definitely "influenced" by the stg. Theres not much information on the design of the bolt in the 46, but it looks a lot like the tilting bolt assembly in the stg.

Like I said "concept". A carbine length auto shooting an intermediate cartridge. The first gens may have been more of s copy but the 47 was culmination of idea, concept, and lessons learned coupled with manufacturing constraints of Russia.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 11:57:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CharlieR:


The issue is that the Germans made about 14 million kar98s, maybe 400k STG44s, and 10K or so FG42s. So you are incorrect in that "most" German weapons were inferior, if you factor in the likelihood you would see one on the battlefield.

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Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:
Originally Posted By mayday:
Originally Posted By Stoop:
Just watched Fury, and saw the Brad Pitt character using an STG44 to good effect.

How was this as the first assault rifle? Was the rifle dependable? How about the cartridge?

I hear fellow M1 Garand owners saying they would not feel under gunned today with the M1 - how about the STG44 ?


Most German arms were much better than US issued firearms; from the lowly FG42 to Stg44 to MG42 -- they were all vastly superior. Check out this vid of FG42 vs M1 FG42 vs M1 . By all rights the Stg44 blew the FG42 away. Lets not even go into the MG42.


Germany went to war with the K98 as that was the rifle issued in large number to their regular Army. The U.S. Army went to war the the M1 Garand. Explain to me how the Garand was inferior to the K98?



Considering I never said the K98 was superior to the M1; I reject you Fallacy Of Extension. You lack logic my friend. But good luck with all that -- if off.


The issue is that the Germans made about 14 million kar98s, maybe 400k STG44s, and 10K or so FG42s. So you are incorrect in that "most" German weapons were inferior, if you factor in the likelihood you would see one on the battlefield.

Don't forget the G-43s which were every bit as good as the M1.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 12:01:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Khyber pass, anyone?

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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Khyber pass, anyone?

Also I would imagine that in countries without as tight of controls on import/export as the U.S., ammo would be much easier.
Romania had 7.92x33 by the possible tens of millions in the 90's.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 12:09:43 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By N1Rampage:
Also I would imagine that in countries without as tight of controls on import/export as the U.S., ammo would be much easier.

Romania had 7.92x33 by the possible tens of millions in the 90's.
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Originally Posted By N1Rampage:
Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Khyber pass, anyone?
Also I would imagine that in countries without as tight of controls on import/export as the U.S., ammo would be much easier.

Romania had 7.92x33 by the possible tens of millions in the 90's.



So, what is the odds of any of that ever getting imported to the US?
I can see the sudden market opened up for new AR uppers in 7.92x33.

It could be the final solution for a cheap 30 caliber AR cartridge.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 12:10:49 AM EDT
As to the OP since we went sideways. Brad Pitt could have used a .22 cricket with great success of that was what the producers wanted. In the 1940s what was the reliability of a truck? Today we expect a vehicle to go 100k miles on oil changes. We expect a AR to go 1k rounds with a little oil. People bitch about terrible sights on an AK but the STG had the same type. The bottom line to the effectiveness of a platform comes down to the end user.
Would a 1940 tank commander be able to pick up a platform the world had never seen and go all Costa on the enemy?
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 12:13:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Erevis:



So, what is the odds of any of that ever getting imported to the US?
I can see the sudden market opened up for new AR uppers in 7.92x33.

It could be the final solution for a cheap 30 caliber AR cartridge.
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Originally Posted By Erevis:
Originally Posted By N1Rampage:
Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Khyber pass, anyone?
Also I would imagine that in countries without as tight of controls on import/export as the U.S., ammo would be much easier.

Romania had 7.92x33 by the possible tens of millions in the 90's.



So, what is the odds of any of that ever getting imported to the US?
I can see the sudden market opened up for new AR uppers in 7.92x33.

It could be the final solution for a cheap 30 caliber AR cartridge.

It would be like the AR crowd to ruin another surplus cartridge because they are to cheap to buy the ammo they their rifle should be shooting because it cost to much.
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