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Posted: 8/22/2017 8:00:56 AM EDT
Edited to add:  The GD concessus is MYOB.  Thanks to all for the advice.  I will caution my wife to stay away from them.  Do not give any more advice.

I am interested, still, in what made GD's Friends of Bill take the step toward being sober.


Couple down the street.  Really more like friends of my wife.  The woman is married to an alcoholic.  I met them 6 years ago and I knew right away the guy had a drinking problem.  Well, his problem is that he is an alcoholic.  She says refuses to acknowledge he has a problem, is verbally abusive and is trying to turn their adult kids against her.

I don't know about any of that other than he is an alcoholic.

My wife was asked by the woman what to do.  My wife told her to protect herself and that moving out was certainly on the table.  My wife's father was also an alcoholic......and a mean drunk.  She knows how bad it can get.  

From your experience on the alcoholic side of the equation, what are the best things for someone married to an abusive alcoholic to do?

I am not touching any of this with a 10 foot pole.  My wife will talk to the woman but will not go other there and certainly woudn't help her move out.  In fact, the last thing we want is for the man to think we are involved.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:02:45 AM EDT
[#1]
MYOB
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:05:02 AM EDT
[#2]
If she's not happy and he won't change then she needs to leave. Verbally/mentally abusive drunks make for a miserable life
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:05:09 AM EDT
[#3]
"Let me think on that and get back to you."
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:07:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Tonto you know the right answer. Time to start your harem.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:08:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Stay out of it. Remind her to arm herself. If it gets bad enough, wait 'til he's utterly wasted and gets abusive, then she can solve the problem. Sounds like everyone knows he's an angry violent drunk, and the law almost always sides with a woman who feels threatened by this type of man. If she cant find the stones to help herself, then I don't know what you can do for her.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:08:39 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
MYOB
View Quote
If you do anything, you will lose.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:10:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Tonto you know the right answer. Time to start your harem.
View Quote
Barely handle what I have.  Regardless, I'm on a low carb diet which would make sandwiches problematic.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:12:26 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you do anything, you will lose.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
MYOB
If you do anything, you will lose.
I asked merely for informational purposes.  I also teach psychology.  Trust me, I will remain well away from this.  I've known more than a few alcoholics.  Rarely known any of them to dry out.  If they did, it was decades too late.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:13:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
MYOB
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That's the first step, followed by MYOB. If that doesn't solve the problem then try MYOB again.

See, relationships are often very complex and you can't really know what's going on in one. You also can't make an alcoholic change. All you can do is to decide whether you want to put up with the bullshit or not. That's an individual choice, not something someone else can decide for you. No matter what, it won't be pretty.

But you aren't the cause of the problem and it's not your responsibility. More importantly than that, there is nothing you can do that will make things better, all you will do by getting involved is to screw things up more.

In other words, MYOB.

ETA: in answer to the question of "From your experience on the alcoholic side of the equation, what are the best things for someone married to an abusive alcoholic to do? " There is no best thing. I'm dealing with a bad alcoholic girlfriend now. She knows it's a problem and says she is trying to cut back, she also gets verbally abusive with me sometimes, and her adult children sometimes too. My answer is to stay with her because kicking her to the curb would be far worse on her than doing nothing, and my guilt for doing so would be far worse than her rather amateurish verbal abuse.

However, my answer is not the answer for everyone, or even most people. Every situation is different. If you want some good advice for this I would suggest listening to some Country Music. It seems that two thirds of the Country songs are about being an alcoholic and hurting people, being hurt by an alcoholic, or about becoming an alcoholic.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:16:31 AM EDT
[#10]
They are gonna get in an argument and the wife is gonna tell him 
that Mrs.Tonto told me I should leave you.

He'll then come down and shoot both of you in a drunken rage.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:17:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Couple down the street.  Really more like friends of my wife.  The woman is married to an alcoholic.  I met them 6 years ago and I knew right away the guy had a drinking problem.  Well, his problem is that he is an alcoholic.  She says refuses to acknowledge he has a problem, is verbally abusive and is trying to turn their adult kids against her.

I don't know about any of that other than he is an alcoholic.

My wife was asked by the woman what to do.  My wife told her to protect herself and that moving out was certainly on the table.  My wife's father was also an alcoholic......and a mean drunk.  She knows how bad it can get.  

From your experience on the alcoholic side of the equation, what are the best things for someone married to an abusive alcoholic to do?

I am not touching any of this with a 10 foot pole.  My wife will talk to the woman but will not go other there and certainly woudn't help her move out.  In fact, the last thing we want is for the man to think we are involved.
View Quote



the best advise for dealing with drunks and drug addicts is to not deal with them at all. this advise has served me well all of my life. ymmv.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:18:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:20:04 AM EDT
[#13]
There really is no upside in this for you or your wife.

The best advice is to cast them aside.

But you won't.

And down the road you'll wonder where it all went wrong.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:25:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Country music response was good response.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:26:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They are gonna get in an argument and the wife is gonna tell him 
that Mrs.Tonto told me I should leave you.

He'll then come down and shoot both of you in a drunken rage.
View Quote
This. She'll think saying it will be a strategic strike that will give her an advantage in their verbal slap fight, not understanding the gravity of what she's doing.  OPSEC is a huge weakness for the womenz

You'll now need someone on Overwatch until that guy is in the ground
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:26:30 AM EDT
[#16]
See if there is a re|engage meeting in your area you can refer them to.

http://marriagehelp.org
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:27:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Thanks to all for the very good advice.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:28:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They are gonna get in an argument and the wife is gonna tell him 
that Mrs.Tonto told me I should leave you.

He'll then come down and shoot both of you in a drunken rage.
View Quote
This. It's better to myob. IMO, recovering alcoholic opinion.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:28:13 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Stay out of it. Remind her to arm herself. If it gets bad enough, wait 'til he's utterly wasted and gets abusive, then she can solve the problem. Sounds like everyone knows he's an angry violent drunk, and the law almost always sides with a woman who feels threatened by this type of man. If she cant find the stones to help herself, then I don't know what you can do for her.
View Quote
What a horrid suggestion.

IF there is a firearm in that house she needs to get everything that is alive out of that house.  The last thing needed is a firearm....I doubt she is going to shower with the thing and having that somewhere where the guy can find it is really really bad news.....and if he does find it nothing good will come of it even if he is sober.

No she just needs to leave.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:29:16 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They are gonna get in an argument and the wife is gonna tell him 
that Mrs.Tonto told me I should leave you.

He'll then come down and shoot both of you in a drunken rage.
View Quote
Yep, that was my thought.
Even advice is too involved, unless you want to go all the way (and I know you do not want to).
No good deed goes unpunished.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:30:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Edited to add:  By all account, it's a MYOB situation.  Thanks to all for the advice.  I will caution my wife to stay away from them.  Do not give any more advice.  

Couple down the street.  Really more like friends of my wife.  The woman is married to an alcoholic.  I met them 6 years ago and I knew right away the guy had a drinking problem.  Well, his problem is that he is an alcoholic.  She says refuses to acknowledge he has a problem, is verbally abusive and is trying to turn their adult kids against her.

I don't know about any of that other than he is an alcoholic.

My wife was asked by the woman what to do.  My wife told her to protect herself and that moving out was certainly on the table.  My wife's father was also an alcoholic......and a mean drunk.  She knows how bad it can get.  

From your experience on the alcoholic side of the equation, what are the best things for someone married to an abusive alcoholic to do?

I am not touching any of this with a 10 foot pole.  My wife will talk to the woman but will not go other there and certainly woudn't help her move out.  In fact, the last thing we want is for the man to think we are involved.
View Quote


lol

MYOB and tell your wife the same.

It sounds like she/you are already involved. What's going to happen/if/when she mentions it to her hubby before or after she moves out....


ETA: Seems I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Your wife feels bad for her, got it. But maybe she wants to be in the shitty situation, I mean she hasn't left yet and may not.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:30:50 AM EDT
[#22]
YOPNI
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:31:56 AM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:32:40 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They are gonna get in an argument and the wife is gonna tell him 
that Mrs.Tonto told me I should leave you.

He'll then come down and shoot both of you in a drunken rage.
View Quote
It would have never crossed my mind that might happen.  Thanks for the warning.  It is good advice.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:37:34 AM EDT
[#25]
I get asked this often and my answer is to tell them to call the local Al-anon for advice and if you feel threatened call 911.
Then MYOB.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:46:05 AM EDT
[#26]
In typical GD fashion, everybody ignores the
"Friend of Bill's" part and all give the same reply.

AA won't work for him until he wants help, and to want help you have to first see you have a problem, and second, see that it is out of your control. It sounds like he's not there yet.
Some get there eventually ~ they call it hitting bottom ~ many never do and die or end up in prison.

For the spouse, though, there is ALANON. The sister organization to AA for the loved ones/people who live with alcoholics. It could certainly help her.  

Your wife could offer to go with her to her first meeting if she's the type who needs support. Nothing at all wrong with that.

In fact, this whole GD meme of MYOB is bullshit. Just because the alcoholic is always the last to know he's an alcoholic, it doesn't mean the rest of the world comes to a screeching halt and pretends to ignore it, or tiptoes around it like everyone is scared he'll turn into an angry incredible hulk with a few drinks.

I'm not saying she should stick around for physical abuse, harm, and injury, but neither should you all assume she doesn't still love her husband, there's no hope, and she needs to get out.  She needs to get to alanon.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:49:17 AM EDT
[#27]
She needs to consult a social welfare agency, I understand her plight; people can get pretty nasty when they are not smashed, but even worse when they are.

My feeling is that she & the kids(if any)  should leave while he is in a drunken stupor, and not come back. Go to a friend's or relatives house, and get a restraining order. Of course mum's word on where is, there have been women that are killed by the spouses, I say this because women have the perpetrators too.

Of course keep your distance.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:50:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
In typical GD fashion, everybody ignores the
"Friend of Bill's" part and all give the same reply.

AA won't work for him until he wants help, and to want help you have to first see you have a problem, and second, see that it is out of your control. It sounds like he's not there yet.
Some get there eventually ~ they call it hitting bottom ~ many never do and die or end up in prison.

For the spouse, though, there is ALANON. The sister organization to AA for the loved ones/people who live with alcoholics. It could certainly help her.  

Your wife could offer to go with her to her first meeting if she's the type who needs support. Nothing at all wrong with that.

In fact, this whole GD meme of MYOB is bullshit. Just because the alcoholic is always the last to know he's an alcoholic, it doesn't mean the rest of the world comes to a screeching halt and pretends to ignore it, or tiptoes around it like everyone is scared he'll turn into an angry incredible hulk with a few drinks.

I'm not saying she should stick around for physical abuse, harm, and injury, but neither should you all assume she doesn't still love her husband, there's no hope, and she needs to get out.  She needs to get to alanon.
View Quote
We were all waiting for you to drop you knowledge bomb.

So OPs wife should hand her your post and GTFO of their problem.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:51:34 AM EDT
[#29]
Your question of,"what made you dry out?" is best answered by this simple fact.  The alcoholic has to want to quit.  As for you trying to help the wife or the alcoholic, the best you can do is encourage the wife to go to an Al-Anon meeting.  It's helped many family members of alcoholics.  I don't have statistics but I'd bet that the alcoholic's odds of getting sober are higher when family members attend Al-Anon meetings.  Do anything more and you are asking for trouble.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:57:05 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:00:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Don't allow your wife to drag you or herself into their world of shit.  The boozer's wife is an adult.  She knows what she should be doing but isn't doing it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:06:14 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We were all waiting for you to drop you knowledge bomb.

So OPs wife should hand her your post and GTFO of their problem.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
In typical GD fashion, everybody ignores the
"Friend of Bill's" part and all give the same reply.

AA won't work for him until he wants help, and to want help you have to first see you have a problem, and second, see that it is out of your control. It sounds like he's not there yet.
Some get there eventually ~ they call it hitting bottom ~ many never do and die or end up in prison.

For the spouse, though, there is ALANON. The sister organization to AA for the loved ones/people who live with alcoholics. It could certainly help her.  

Your wife could offer to go with her to her first meeting if she's the type who needs support. Nothing at all wrong with that.

In fact, this whole GD meme of MYOB is bullshit. Just because the alcoholic is always the last to know he's an alcoholic, it doesn't mean the rest of the world comes to a screeching halt and pretends to ignore it, or tiptoes around it like everyone is scared he'll turn into an angry incredible hulk with a few drinks.

I'm not saying she should stick around for physical abuse, harm, and injury, but neither should you all assume she doesn't still love her husband, there's no hope, and she needs to get out.  She needs to get to alanon.
We were all waiting for you to drop you knowledge bomb.

So OPs wife should hand her your post and GTFO of their problem.
Actually, no you were not waiting.

And your conclusion to GTFO is just a variation of MYOB. Which may or may not be the correct response for the OP and his wife.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:21:00 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What a horrid suggestion.

IF there is a firearm in that house she needs to get everything that is alive out of that house.  The last thing needed is a firearm....I doubt she is going to shower with the thing and having that somewhere where the guy can find it is really really bad news.....and if he does find it nothing good will come of it even if he is sober.

No she just needs to leave.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Stay out of it. Remind her to arm herself. If it gets bad enough, wait 'til he's utterly wasted and gets abusive, then she can solve the problem. Sounds like everyone knows he's an angry violent drunk, and the law almost always sides with a woman who feels threatened by this type of man. If she cant find the stones to help herself, then I don't know what you can do for her.
What a horrid suggestion.

IF there is a firearm in that house she needs to get everything that is alive out of that house.  The last thing needed is a firearm....I doubt she is going to shower with the thing and having that somewhere where the guy can find it is really really bad news.....and if he does find it nothing good will come of it even if he is sober.

No she just needs to leave.
Well right if she's willing to leave she should do so. But if she hasn't left yet, she's obviously somewhat resistant to the idea, and in the meantime should take some measures to ensure her own safety.

Is that too hard to understand?
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:21:34 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Give her the number to the local womens shelter.

These type people want you to co-op their issue. They will suck you into their world. Then when it all goes to shit they will blame you.

The year is 2017. People know how are babies are made and how to prevent them. People know who to contact to get out of abusive relationships and they don't do it.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Give her the number to the local womens shelter.

These type people want you to co-op their issue. They will suck you into their world. Then when it all goes to shit they will blame you.

The year is 2017. People know how are babies are made and how to prevent them. People know who to contact to get out of abusive relationships and they don't do it.
Quoted:
For the spouse, though, there is ALANON. The sister organization to AA for the loved ones/people who live with alcoholics. It could certainly help her.  

<snip>

I'm not saying she should stick around for physical abuse, harm, and injury, but neither should you all assume she doesn't still love her husband, there's no hope, and she needs to get out.  She needs to get to alanon.
These.   My father was an alcoholic (was b/c he finally drank himself to death) and my mother finally went to Al-anon, which saved her life.  At some point, you have to accept that you cannot save the alky, and he's only going to drag you down with him.  Very wise of you to stay well clear of this train wreck.  Offer her the above advice; if she doesn't listen, oh well, she's a big girl.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:30:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Constant exposure to an alcoholic can and will damage all of the people around the alcoholic. Some damage is physical, some is psychological. Both are destructive.

From a what can the wife do standpoint, there is not a damn thing she can do to help her alcoholic husband sober up. He will find help when and only when he is ready and maybe never.
Either way, her only option is to take care of herself both physically and mentally.

I don't advocate getting involved with the situation other than making the wife aware that support groups exist that will help her deal with the alcoholic husband.
alanon.org

Beyond that, MYOB
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:30:13 AM EDT
[#36]
You are overlooking the fact that she is every bit as sick as he is.

She has her reasons that she needs someone like that in her life, attention, sympathy, etc.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:32:46 AM EDT
[#37]
What part of Tx?
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:33:43 AM EDT
[#38]
That person has to help himself- you cannot help those that do not help themselves.  At that point, there are others that have been there and will help like AA, and ALANON, etc.  

Drinking is a social BS event here, I pass through drunks passed out sometimes even but it is not my problem to deal with.  Yet they do not get smashed everyday of the week, its usually some drinking party for the week then home and sleep it off.  Keep your wife and yourself out of it, hope the other person is not being abusive though cause then its a shitstorm waiting to happen, already is.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:35:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
In typical GD fashion, everybody ignores the
"Friend of Bill's" part and all give the same reply.

AA won't work for him until he wants help, and to want help you have to first see you have a problem, and second, see that it is out of your control. It sounds like he's not there yet.
Some get there eventually ~ they call it hitting bottom ~ many never do and die or end up in prison.

For the spouse, though, there is ALANON. The sister organization to AA for the loved ones/people who live with alcoholics. It could certainly help her.  

Your wife could offer to go with her to her first meeting if she's the type who needs support. Nothing at all wrong with that.

In fact, this whole GD meme of MYOB is bullshit. Just because the alcoholic is always the last to know he's an alcoholic, it doesn't mean the rest of the world comes to a screeching halt and pretends to ignore it, or tiptoes around it like everyone is scared he'll turn into an angry incredible hulk with a few drinks.

I'm not saying she should stick around for physical abuse, harm, and injury, but neither should you all assume she doesn't still love her husband, there's no hope, and she needs to get out.  She needs to get to alanon.
View Quote
Saved me some typing. Excellent response.

Have your wife take her to her first Al-Anon meeting. If it sucks then try another one the next night. Encourage her to get a sponsor. I can probably help you find her one if you're really in Texas.

They're not all equal and I know some serious Al-Anons can help her.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:39:06 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
In typical GD fashion, everybody ignores the
"Friend of Bill's" part and all give the same reply.

AA won't work for him until he wants help, and to want help you have to first see you have a problem, and second, see that it is out of your control. It sounds like he's not there yet.
Some get there eventually ~ they call it hitting bottom ~ many never do and die or end up in prison.

For the spouse, though, there is ALANON. The sister organization to AA for the loved ones/people who live with alcoholics. It could certainly help her.  

Your wife could offer to go with her to her first meeting if she's the type who needs support. Nothing at all wrong with that.

In fact, this whole GD meme of MYOB is bullshit. Just because the alcoholic is always the last to know he's an alcoholic, it doesn't mean the rest of the world comes to a screeching halt and pretends to ignore it, or tiptoes around it like everyone is scared he'll turn into an angry incredible hulk with a few drinks.

I'm not saying she should stick around for physical abuse, harm, and injury, but neither should you all assume she doesn't still love her husband, there's no hope, and she needs to get out.  She needs to get to alanon.
View Quote
+1000
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:42:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What part of Tx?
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Well-to-do, north-of-Dallas burb/
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:44:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well-to-do, north-of-Dallas burb/
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Perfect. I know a woman up there with almost 40 years in Al-Anon.

I'll shoot you my number.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:57:50 AM EDT
[#43]
Even though I have completely emptied my Inbox, it still says I can't send IM's because my inbox is full so here it is in public.

Hey Man, I have been sober since 2005 and the AA I run with is very intermingled with Al-Anon so I know a lot of good solid Al-Anons especially in the Texas area.

If you want, we can chat on the phone, speaker phone with your wife, or I can just shoot you the number. I would recommend simply handing her the number and telling her this woman has been recommended as someone that can definitely help you. I am sure she will be glad she called. Karen is a fantastic woman with something like 37 years in Al-Anon. If your wife is willing to go with her to her first meeting, all the better. I think you'll find them very welcoming. Having suffered the same experiences is what makes them so willing to help.

I'd be glad to do whatever works best for you. Let me know, I am free this evening after about 6.

David
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Link Posted: 8/22/2017 10:11:03 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
MYOB
View Quote
Especially if he's unstable, your wife should stay away too.

I know plenty of alcoholics who are sweet and functional, alcoholics with a temper usually have underlying issues. Until he admits he has a problem, there is nothing his wife can do. You and your wife should stay out of it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 10:17:17 AM EDT
[#45]
The only thing I would do is have the wife give her a list from the link below and the MYOB

https://al-anon.org/al-anon-meetings/find-an-al-anon-meeting/
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 10:28:58 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Give her the number to the local womens shelter.

These type people want you to co-op their issue. They will suck you into their world. Then when it all goes to shit they will blame you.

The year is 2017. People know how are babies are made and how to prevent them. People know who to contact to get out of abusive relationships and they don't do it.
View Quote
Exactly.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 10:32:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't allow your wife to drag you or herself into their world of shit.  The boozer's wife is an adult.  She knows what she should be doing but isn't doing it.
View Quote
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 10:37:27 AM EDT
[#48]
@TontoGoldstein-It all starts with "if you want what I have, and are willing to do WHATEVER it takes to get it"....Christmas will be six years without a drop for me. To each his/her own. I grew up going to AA with my folks. So I'm no stranger to Bill. Like most I grew up and knew I was just fine and could handle the "ism". Sometimes it takes years for an individual to decide THEY need or want to make a change. The KEY is, no one can make that decision for anyone. It simply will not work. An individual must desire to change. If someone does not want to change, you can deal with it, or walk away. Period.

ETA: I guess you already got a lot of the same advice. Just worded differently.
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