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Posted: 12/28/2012 3:15:22 AM EDT


With the caption:

Why did we give up on railway travel? Oh, right, because we don't need fast energy efficient methods of transportation in Uhmurikuh, because railroads and energy efficiency is for Communists, got dangit.


My response(still mulling it over):

First of all, there's more pressing issues out there than building a bunch of high speed rail lines. For instance, the fact that neither political party can get it together to pass a budget. Second of all, for a lot of trips, it's a lot faster to either drive or take a plane.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:16:50 AM EDT
take a plane, do in 60 minutes with only one anal probe, naked x-ray, and stolen iPad from TSA
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:21:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2012 3:21:45 AM EDT by optimus]
We should really reeducate people on long distance passenger rail in the US... great example of what happens when you let the feds have control of nearly an entire industry.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:22:30 AM EDT
Because the way politics fucks every damn thing it touches, the "high speed efficient" trains would neither be high speed or efficient. They would cater to who ever could put in the most expensive bid, most shoddy workmanship, and be worked by the most incompetent.

Equal Opportunity would make the individuals on the trains the most ignorant, obnoxious creatures that could be dreamed up. So fuck high speed trains. I will drive my Jeep
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:24:45 AM EDT
our rail system sucks dick.

our rail system sucks dick for a reason.

we have an advanced highway, waterway, and airport network.

our remaining railway is essentially a couple of commuter lines, an industrial bulk carrier line, and subways. Passenger rail is literally third rail and if amtrack dissappeard tomorrow, nobody would notice as long as Metro North could take over routes going into NJ.

that makes China better? Maybe just in rail travel.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:25:00 AM EDT
Just ask him if it was made cost affective by union labor?
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:25:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By optimus:
We should really reeducate people on long distance passenger rail in the US... great example of what happens when you let the feds have control of nearly an entire industry.


You've brought up a good point, how's Amtrak doing these days fiscally?
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:25:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NuclearCookies:
Because the way politics fucks every damn thing it touches, the "high speed efficient" trains would neither be high speed or efficient. They would cater to who ever could put in the most expensive bid, most shoddy workmanship, and be worked by the most incompetent.

Equal Opportunity would make the individuals on the trains the most ignorant, obnoxious creatures that could be dreamed up. So fuck high speed trains. I will drive my Jeep


Have you ever been on Amtrak? It is all EEO jobs. It's like the post office runs the damn thing.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:32:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
take a plane, do in 60 minutes with only one anal probe, naked x-ray, and stolen iPad from TSA

So?


Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:33:06 AM EDT
Public transportation = ghetto as fuck.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:33:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2012 4:06:22 AM EDT by Sketti]
China
Non-Union workers - Train Cost = 7 billion

USA
Union workers - Train Cost = 7 Trillion

China
Train - Travel Time = 8 hours - Cost per ticket = $138.73 (half a year's pay)

USA
Plane - Travel Time = 2.5 hours - Cost per ticket = $200 (two days pay)

China
No Environmental Laws & Tree huggers get shot

USA
A bizzion Environmental Laws & a Tree hugger on every corner
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:34:28 AM EDT
I wonder how much those two tickets would cost once government subsidies were removed.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:35:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
take a plane, do in 60 minutes with only one anal probe, naked x-ray, and stolen iPad from TSA


So, you're saying it's Win-Win?


Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:37:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stangboy555:
Public transportation = ghetto as fuck.

It makes life stupid when 300 million people think that.

On the other hand, seeing, 'This Road is Reserved for Eracer' would be pretty awesome. But then, that would be ghetto, since the only way that would happen is if I had enough money to buy a 747, and an airport to fly into. You know, like that douchebag John Travolta.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:41:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By NuclearCookies:
Because the way politics fucks every damn thing it touches, the "high speed efficient" trains would neither be high speed or efficient. They would cater to who ever could put in the most expensive bid, most shoddy workmanship, and be worked by the most incompetent.

Equal Opportunity would make the individuals on the trains the most ignorant, obnoxious creatures that could be dreamed up. So fuck high speed trains. I will drive my Jeep


Have you ever been on Amtrak? It is all EEO jobs. It's like the post office runs the damn thing.


I try to avoid public transit. I fly as a last resort too. Driving is much more therapeutic.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:44:16 AM EDT
Here's my proposed response:

I have been thinking about this and I can't see any benefits to this fiscally. We already have a national rail system, Amtrak, and it's losing money. http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/2011/10/money-losing_amtrak_operated_a.html. Also, I think since both parties in Congress haven't passed a BUDGET in four years, that is more of a priority, IMO. Furthermore, the next time I am going to take a long cross country journey, I'll be getting in a car with someone or hopping a plane. I don't want to be restricted to timetables and considering tracks, cost and geography, flying or driving are much better options. I seriously also foresee thanks to the government, high speed rail will neither be fast nor efficient.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:46:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NuclearCookies:



I try to avoid public transit. I fly as a last resort too. Driving is much more therapeutic.


My mom and I are going to Savannah, Georgia from Chicago.

We considered flying, but considering a) the cost of flying, b) the hassle of going thru TSA, and the plane change in Charlotte, coupled with my mom's mobility issues, it's much easier to drive it.

Also, you can't pull the plane over to go to a Walmart.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:47:20 AM EDT
Here, the government will have to buy all the land for the right of way.
There, the government only has to buy one bullet to persuade tennants to move off the government's land.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:51:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sketti:
China
Non-Union workers - Train Cost = 7 billion

USA
Union workers - Train Cost = 7 Trillion

China
Train - Travel Time = 8 hours - Cost per ticket = $138.73 (half a year's pay)
USA
Plane - Travel Time = 2.5 hours - Cost per ticket = $200 (two days pay)


I would definitely post this. Very interesting and pretty damn relevant.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:51:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
take a plane, do in 60 minutes with only one anal probe, naked x-ray, and stolen iPad from TSA


What makes you think you will be allowed to get on that train without them same tender lovin' from the TSA?

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:58:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Originally Posted By optimus:
We should really reeducate people on long distance passenger rail in the US... great example of what happens when you let the feds have control of nearly an entire industry.


You've brought up a good point, how's Amtrak doing these days fiscally?


They have run a substantial deficit since day 1.

Only the northeast corridor makes any money.

The northeast corridor should be sold off to private enterprise and the rest of the mess shit down.

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 3:59:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Originally Posted By optimus:
We should really reeducate people on long distance passenger rail in the US... great example of what happens when you let the feds have control of nearly an entire industry.


You've brought up a good point, how's Amtrak doing these days fiscally?


They have run a substantial deficit since day 1.

Only the northeast corridor makes any money.

The northeast corridor should be sold off to private enterprise and the rest of the mess shit down.



You know, you're not that bad, Dan.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 4:01:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Originally Posted By optimus:
We should really reeducate people on long distance passenger rail in the US... great example of what happens when you let the feds have control of nearly an entire industry.


You've brought up a good point, how's Amtrak doing these days fiscally?


They have run a substantial deficit since day 1.

Only the northeast corridor makes any money.

The northeast corridor should be sold off to private enterprise and the rest of the mess shit down.



I never really looked into it, but what was the reasoning behind the whole gov't take-over of passenger rail? I'm assuming "safety," but why didn't they do like with air travel?
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 4:18:33 AM EDT
Hi-speed rail WILL be here in the US very, very soon.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 4:20:59 AM EDT
i dont understand the love affair with rail travel.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 4:23:21 AM EDT
I bet it derails first time.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 4:27:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By theskuh:
i dont understand the love affair with rail travel.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Train affairs can last longer than the mile high club affairs.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 4:27:06 AM EDT
Why haven't you posted to his facebook the flightaware map of the American Airlines fight that does SEA - SAN in 2.5 hours at the same price?
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 4:37:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jmb_nova:
Hi-speed rail WILL be here in the US very, very soon.


I'll take that bet. These morons in office can't decide the best way to fuck America. How are they going to convince all the little towns in America to allow for this bullshit project to roll through their livelihoods? Unless they are going to claim Eminent Domain on large swaths of land across the US they don't have shit to go on. It is a commie pipe dream backed by people who have no concepts of the ridiculousness that will be enforced as to appease the masses. The train would have to slow down when it goes through towns so it doesn't offend anyone (there goes the high speed). If we run high voltage lines across the US, the power will be supplied by fossil fuels (because nuclear is so scary). Likewise if the trains supply their own power (would you want a nuclear train, I would but that is beside the point) you lose that efficiency.

Where will this train stop at? Who gets the contract to run it? Who will maintain it? The only way it comes efficient is for it to run from coast to coast without stopping and that only benefits the ones living in California and New York. The reason it works for China is because it goes through major expanses of uninhabited or sparsely populated.

It is a nifty concept, but the reality is that it isn't workable for the US and unless we plan on abandoning the middle of the country, or forcing out those who live there, it makes no logistical sense to do it.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 4:49:19 AM EDT
We did not give up on rail. They move the majority of coast to coast freight.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 4:50:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2012 4:52:07 AM EDT by Sketti]
Originally Posted By jmb_nova:
Hi-speed rail WILL be here in the US very, very soon.


Moonbeam is that you!?

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:03:08 AM EDT
You guys and this fucking Facebook.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:06:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By optimus:
We should really reeducate people on long distance passenger rail in the US... great example of what happens when you let the feds have control of nearly an entire industry.


You mean they should read Atlas Shrugged?
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:06:46 AM EDT
Let me know when you find ANYWHERE in the world where the train is financially viable w/out gov't intervention.

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:07:41 AM EDT
Rail travel is the end game but American cities don't have adequate destination-transportation to make it viable. In other words even if you save a boatload of cash taking the train you still have to rent a car once you get there..
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:09:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By robplumm:
Let me know when you find ANYWHERE in the world where the train is financially viable w/out gov't intervention.


As energy prices trend upwards over the long term it is only a matter of time before it is. Burning 2,500-5,000 gallons of Jet-A to move 120 people 500 miles isn't a long term solution (flying).
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:12:03 AM EDT
Pacific Surfliner stops every 30 miles. It is not intended to be a high speed train.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:12:22 AM EDT
Yeah, that Chinese high speed line is great till one of the trains comes off the track at nearly 200 mph... I doubt anyone's walking away from that with a limp.

Imagine that here in the US? The litigation would destroy whatever company ran the rail.

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:16:21 AM EDT
Has your friend considered the fact that the population density of the two countries is vastly different? China has a population density of over 1,600 people per square mile. The US's population density is only about 90 people per square mile. China has about 20 times the number of people in any given square mile than the US does. That makes mass transportation much more cost effective.

It's pretty much impossible to cover a major portion of the US population by railway without spending 10 times what it would cost China to do the same.

The two Chinese cities in the photo have a combined population of over 32 million people. The proposed route in the US links 2 cities with a combined population of less than 2 million people. Does your friend really think that it's cost effective to build an identical rail line in the US to cater to 6% of what the Chinese equivalent does?
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:16:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Alex_F:
Yeah, that Chinese high speed line is great till one of the trains comes off the track at nearly 200 mph... I doubt anyone's walking away from that with a limp.

Imagine that here in the US? The litigation would destroy whatever company ran the rail.


That's the problem. The Chinese build their shit fast and cheap, not good.

And as others have stated, they tend to not give a shit about things like democracy or pesky little shit about neighborhoods being in the way.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:19:40 AM EDT
8 hours is high speed? I can leave my house at 8 am drive to BDL in 42 minutes, be on a plane by 9:30, fly to ORLANDO in a little over 2 hours and be eating hate chicken by noon. Uhmerkah.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:23:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2012 5:25:49 AM EDT by NoStockBikes]

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:

Originally Posted By robplumm:
Let me know when you find ANYWHERE in the world where the train is financially viable w/out gov't intervention.


As energy prices trend upwards over the long term it is only a matter of time before it is. Burning 2,500-5,000 gallons of Jet-A to move 120 people 500 miles isn't a long term solution (flying).

Depends how many people want to travel those 500 miles. If there's only 120 people who need to make that trip, it's a freaking winning lottery ticket compared to obtaining the land, building the tracks, and buying/maintaining the actual train to move 120 people.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:27:04 AM EDT
What is it with fascists and trains?
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:27:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fingas:
I wonder how much those two tickets would cost once government subsidies were removed.

This.

And,

Originally Posted By robplumm:
Let me know when you find ANYWHERE in the world where the train is financially viable w/out gov't intervention.


This. High speed rail in China is very heavily subsidized, the labor to build it is basically free, and even at the subsidized prices, about 1% of the population can afford the trip.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:31:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mazeman:
What is it with fascists and trains?


Control everyone by packaging everyone like goddamn fucking sardines on a train?

Link Posted: 12/28/2012 5:56:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Originally Posted By Mazeman:
What is it with fascists and trains?


Control everyone by packaging everyone like goddamn fucking sardines on a train?



Yeah, post something about how great the train to the Capitol in Hunger Games was and how you wish we had one.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:17:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By optimus:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Originally Posted By optimus:
We should really reeducate people on long distance passenger rail in the US... great example of what happens when you let the feds have control of nearly an entire industry.


You've brought up a good point, how's Amtrak doing these days fiscally?


They have run a substantial deficit since day 1.

Only the northeast corridor makes any money.

The northeast corridor should be sold off to private enterprise and the rest of the mess shit down.



I never really looked into it, but what was the reasoning behind the whole gov't take-over of passenger rail? I'm assuming "safety," but why didn't they do like with air travel?


It was going out of business fast. It was deemed to be a public good and critical to infrastructure to maintain a passenger rail capability.

Instead, It has done nothing but hinder rail travel. Amtrak uses leased freight lines, which limits speed, ride comfort, and the view. Which are the supposed "benefits" of rail travel. It remains a money loser and under-funded for it's current size. The only time they get appropriate funding is when a congressional pork barrel bill helps a local district. Ultimately the money is squandered and has to fit their mandate to service all routes. While private enterprise can drop off money losing markets, and grow into potential markets, Amtrak cannot.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:18:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jmb_nova:
Hi-speed rail WILL be here in the US very, very soon.


Not a chance.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:18:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sketti:
China
Non-Union workers - Train Cost = 7 billion

USA
Union workers - Train Cost = 7 Trillion

China
Train - Travel Time = 8 hours - Cost per ticket = $138.73 (half a year's pay)

USA
Plane - Travel Time = 2.5 hours - Cost per ticket = $200 (two days pay)

China
No Environmental Laws & Tree huggers get shot

USA
A bizzion Environmental Laws & a Tree hugger on every corner




+1
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:20:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mazeman:
What is it with fascists and trains?


Ask hitler
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 6:20:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
take a plane, do in 60 minutes with only one anal probe, naked x-ray, and stolen iPad from TSA


if I don't bring an Ipad am I locked up as one of them terorist types? and am I alowed to concolidate it to just One Naked Anal Probe?
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