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Posted: 7/28/2004 12:29:06 PM EST
I was at my grandmother's house the other day and she was going through pictures of my grandfather, who died in 1987. One of the pictures was of him wearing a hat that looked kinda like a bucket on his head. I asked my grandmom what kind of hat he was wearing, and she told me that he was a mason. When I asked her about the masons, she didn't know much, except that they were the people who helped my dad when he was a kid (my dad was in crutches for nine years).

Yesterday I was driving around city hall and saw a big building with the mason symbol on it.

I'm just curious about what the masons are all about, because of my family's history with them. Over the years I've seen the mason symbol all over the place but never gave it a second thought about what it meant.

Can anyone help me out with this?
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 12:35:07 PM EST
there was a huge nasty thread on here about a month ago..here


Several pages into it, my main questions still weren't answered.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 12:51:37 PM EST
I'm a 5th generation Mason. My Dad is a Past Master. I love the organization. I'm working my way up the chairs right now.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:00:18 PM EST
Cult
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:03:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By NevadaARshooter:
Cult





Denied membership huh?Sounds like sourgrapes.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:05:05 PM EST


here we go!

Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:10:23 PM EST
I'm gettin' popcorn
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:12:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By dinkydow:

Originally Posted By NevadaARshooter:
Cult


Denied membership huh?Sounds like sourgrapes.



No, never applied and have no interest. A guy at work is in it and I like to tease him.

Lighten up.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:18:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2004 1:19:08 PM EST by lu380]
First of all, I didn't intend to start a flame war over whether the masons are evil cult members or not. I am only interested in getting replies from ACTUAL MASONS, not people who saw "From Hell" and think they know what they're talking about. This is akin to news columnists going to VPC's website for info on the assault weapons ban, then reporting the info they get as fact.

I'm interested in any information in the organization because it's part of my family's history and I like the idea of people helping each other, not government helping (controlling) people.

I'm sorry if this thread has been done before, but I did a search and nothing came up.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:20:59 PM EST
Don't they wear secret docoder rings?.
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.
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.
.
.
.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:30:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By lu380:
First of all, I didn't intend to start a flame war over whether the masons are evil cult members or not. I am only interested in getting replies from ACTUAL MASONS, not people who saw "From Hell" and think they know what they're talking about. This is akin to news columnists going to VPC's website for info on the assault weapons ban, then reporting the info they get as fact.

I'm interested in any information in the organization because it's part of my family's history and I like the idea of people helping each other, not government helping (controlling) people.

I'm sorry if this thread has been done before, but I did a search and nothing came up.



These threads always turn into shit because the tinfoil hat crowd enters in and says we're devil worshippers or some other shit.. Send me an IM and I'll answer the questions of yours that I'm able too.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:33:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By lu380:
I was at my grandmother's house the other day and she was going through pictures of my grandfather, who died in 1987. One of the pictures was of him wearing a hat that looked kinda like a bucket on his head. I asked my grandmom what kind of hat he was wearing, and she told me that he was a mason. When I asked her about the masons, she didn't know much, except that they were the people who helped my dad when he was a kid (my dad was in crutches for nine years).

Yesterday I was driving around city hall and saw a big building with the mason symbol on it.

I'm just curious about what the masons are all about, because of my family's history with them. Over the years I've seen the mason symbol all over the place but never gave it a second thought about what it meant.

Can anyone help me out with this?



The hat that looks like a "bucket" is most likely Red/Maroon in color, right? That would be a Shriner's Fez.

It sounds like your Dad was probably helped by one of the Shriners' Hospitals for Crippled Children. All of these and the Burns Centers are run strictly with money donated by Masons (and fund raising such as circuses, etc.). Not a dime is taken from patients, insurance companies, or government!

All Shriners are Masons. It is a Masonic organization created to help crippled and burned hospitals.

The following website will give you info on the Shriners and Shriners hospitals in North America:
www.shrinershq.org/

Lots of info on Freemasonry, written independently of any organization can be found on MIT's website:
web.mit.edu/dryfoo/www/Masons/

Do a little independent research and you can decide what it is all about for yourself.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:33:40 PM EST
First off I am not a Mason like you wanted hear from, and I haven't read the other thread. Not looking to argue anything, but I will say that I have known a lot of masons in my 44 years on the planet and EVERYONE THAT I HAVE EVER KNOWN was good people, not one an asshole. If I had to judge the group by their members I would conclude that they are a good bunch.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:33:57 PM EST
how about the secret handshake?

Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:34:50 PM EST
Someone having a two for one sale or do I have to send in a rebate?
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:39:47 PM EST

"We're cool because we're so secret."


End of story.

Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:43:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By LenS:

Originally Posted By lu380:
I was at my grandmother's house the other day and she was going through pictures of my grandfather, who died in 1987. One of the pictures was of him wearing a hat that looked kinda like a bucket on his head. I asked my grandmom what kind of hat he was wearing, and she told me that he was a mason. When I asked her about the masons, she didn't know much, except that they were the people who helped my dad when he was a kid (my dad was in crutches for nine years).

Yesterday I was driving around city hall and saw a big building with the mason symbol on it.

I'm just curious about what the masons are all about, because of my family's history with them. Over the years I've seen the mason symbol all over the place but never gave it a second thought about what it meant.

Can anyone help me out with this?



The hat that looks like a "bucket" is most likely Red/Maroon in color, right? That would be a Shriner's Fez.

It sounds like your Dad was probably helped by one of the Shriners' Hospitals for Crippled Children. All of these and the Burns Centers are run strictly with money donated by Masons (and fund raising such as circuses, etc.). Not a dime is taken from patients, insurance companies, or government!

All Shriners are Masons. It is a Masonic organization created to help crippled and burned hospitals.

The following website will give you info on the Shriners and Shriners hospitals in North America:
www.shrinershq.org/

Lots of info on Freemasonry, written independently of any organization can be found on MIT's website:
web.mit.edu/dryfoo/www/Masons/

Do a little independent research and you can decide what it is all about for yourself.



Just so you know, I described the hat as a bucket because that was the only way I could describe it. I wasn't making fun of it. I have a a bad habit of coming across as rude, even though that's not my intention.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 1:53:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By MichaelSavage:
"We're cool because we're so secret."


End of story.




Precisely.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 2:48:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By lu380:

Just so you know, I described the hat as a bucket because that was the only way I could describe it. I wasn't making fun of it. I have a a bad habit of coming across as rude, even though that's not my intention.



No offense was taken! Your description helped me ID what you were talking about.

I see no rudeness in your questions or what you have stated.

And yes, I am a Mason and a Shriner.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 2:50:15 PM EST
I saw the Masn building, I wondered about it.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 2:55:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 2:57:43 PM EST
I got my E.A. degree lastnight. I wish I would have started sooner, but better late then never. All of the men in my family are Masons, and I am honored to be apart of it all.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 2:58:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 3:01:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
I just submitted my Petition for the Degrees of Masonry, in order to become a Mason.

It's something that I've been meaning to do ever since my brother got involved with them about 10 years ago.

It might seem a bit strange at times, but you are steadied by the knowledge that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Voltaire engaged in these very same rites.

It is enough.

Eric The(Eager)Hun



Eric, allow me to be the first one to say Welcome to this fine fraturnity. You'll never find a nicer group of guys and I'm sure you'll get alot of enjoyment and fellowship out of your membership.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 3:02:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 3:07:36 PM EST
The free masons are a male fraternity. We have been around for many many years.Probally the oldest fratenity in the world. And have certain charities they adopt.If you think you maybe interested contact the temple that you saw the "symbol" on. It should listed in the phone book. I think you have be 21 years of age. And have a belief in God. They will be glad to answer any questions for you. Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 3:10:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 3:41:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2004 3:44:24 PM EST by JH225]
Well, a guy at work just became a Shriner (has been a Mason for a long time) and when this guy and another who helped him through the initiation night started talking about the fact that all of the guy's getting initiated were naked because " your clothes would get messed up", that was more than enough to turn me sour on the Shriners and the Mason's.

Why the hell would a grown man want to be naked in front of other grown men who were doing stupid "ritual" things to them?? They even said one guy took it personal (fucking with the guy's during the ritual) and was told he could go home any time he wanted. Sorry, but this doesn't sound like fun times and helping my fellow man to me.

And BTW, why does the whole thing have to be so secretive? You should want people to know what you do to make them want to join. Not just "well, we help out sick kids, old people, etc". Kind of reminds me of the racoon lodge from the Honeymooners.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 3:55:53 PM EST
Good for you ETH.You WILL wonder why you did not do this much sooner than you did.There are more Masonic Lodges in Texas than in any two other states combined.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 3:58:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 3:59:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By JH225:
Well, a guy at work just became a Shriner (has been a Mason for a long time) and when this guy and another who helped him through the initiation night started talking about the fact that all of the guy's getting initiated were naked because " your clothes would get messed up", that was more than enough to turn me sour on the Shriners and the Mason's.

Why the hell would a grown man want to be naked in front of other grown men who were doing stupid "ritual" things to them?? They even said one guy took it personal (fucking with the guy's during the ritual) and was told he could go home any time he wanted. Sorry, but this doesn't sound like fun times and helping my fellow man to me.

And BTW, why does the whole thing have to be so secretive? You should want people to know what you do to make them want to join. Not just "well, we help out sick kids, old people, etc". Kind of reminds me of the racoon lodge from the Honeymooners.



Wonder why they left out the part about riding a greased goat naked.Or the huge asspaddles with nails in them.Masonry does not seek out the company of fools.To be one ask one.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 4:03:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 4:07:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Ask the local chaper if they are ok with you bringing your carry piece to meetings in thier lodge. That answer should be enough for you to decide to join or not.



That's one of the reasons I am very seriously considering membership. Just about everybody in my life is a judgemental authoritarian liberal type and I'm feeling alienated by them. Very few people in my life share my views and they try their hardest to make me feel like I'm stupid because I won't drink their kool-aid. Most of my friends think I'm a wacko because I carry a firearm, even though I haven't been in a fight since I was seventeen, and I have NEVER threatened anybody or "showed off" my firearms at inappropriate times. As a matter of fact, I'm one of the most non-violent, peace loving people you will ever meet. I speak softly and carry a big .45.

I like the idea of helping others, but by my own free will(no strings attached), not in the form of government programs(strings attached). I would like to know that the people around me would do for me what I would do for them, and if you ask anybody I am close to, they would tell you that if they needed a heart transplant, I would give them mine. I'm not sure if this is what the masons are about, but it seems to be the case.

I'll be IMing a few of you tomorrow with a few questions. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 4:11:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 4:21:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Ask the local chaper if they are ok with you bringing your carry piece to meetings in thier lodge. That answer should be enough for you to decide to join or not.



Why would you ask? Do you ask each business you go into if you can CCW there? Do you ask your employer?

If you feel compelled to ask, be prepared for a big "NO!" almost anywhere you do ask, whether it is your local church, shopping center, restaurant, or businessman. Everyone is looking out for "liability" and thus will automatically say "NO".

When I worked for the late DEC, who had a concrete NO GUNS policy, I used to CCW on occasion. Since it was concealed and/or locked up in my office I felt no need to ask permission!

When I've attended a Masonic Lodge meeting in downtown Boston, you bet your ass that I'm CCW'g! Not an issue. In fact I was told by some Lodge members that after a Lodge meeting in Boston (a number of years ago), 4 members walked across the street into the Boston Commons (after hours it's a hangout for street people and some criminal elements) and they were accosted. The attempted holdup ended abruptly when one of the 4 Lodge members (a minister, I am told) drew his handgun and suggested that these thugs go pick on someone else . . . suddenly the thugs had an urge to be elsewhere, immediately!

I have a friend (who always CCWs) go thru the degrees this Spring. I gingerly told him that it would be wise to bring something to secure his handgun in while he went thru the ritual, and to do so such as not to frighten any of the other candidates! Turns out that the Master of the Lodge and a few other officers are also shooters and RKBA fans, so all is well there. When we left the Lodge, woebegone the thugs that might have mistaken any of us "suits" for prey.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 4:32:09 PM EST
Go ask them, they will be glad to explain what they do and what they believe in. They are basically a God and Country organization who believe the the freedoms of this country.. My father became very ill several years ago and his fellow Masons supported our family, financially and every other way. Some of the most honest, patriotic folks you will every encounter.......... Go visit with them....
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 5:09:06 PM EST
The History Channel had a great documentary on the history of the Masons. Check out the HC website to see if it's scheduled to air again soon.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 5:32:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 6:17:25 PM EST
I've known a number of Masons, some seemingly great folks, others downright corrupt (No, I'm not making that up). Yet, I've always found it rather incongruent that a number of people who subscribe to Christianity also belong to the Masonic lodge, since certain Masonic rites are derived from Mormonism, a religious doctrine that does not agree w/ Christianity (I don't care what Mormons say - there are conflicts between the Bible & the Mormon books: Doctrines & Covenants & Pearl of Great Price). Also, it seems that the pervasive super-secret squirrel-type theme characterizing Masonry is rather un-Christian, in that Christ wasn't much of an exclusivist - unless I've read incorrectly.

But, frankly, I find the secrecy aspect to be rather immature. I mean, c'mon - reminds me of little girls w/ their "secrets", - "..I've got a secret, I've got a secret!" Gimme a break. Why do people who value character & honor need to utilize frat-like "secrecy" & pseudo-religious ritualism to justify acceptance & association? My friends are my friends on the basis of who they are & how they act - something that requires a consistency of character which cannot be satisfied by (questionable) ritualisms. they don;t have to "strip naked", or "swear" to this or that. They just have to behave the way good friends should.

But I digress. I'm no dictator, & it's your life, so make your own decisions, as I have mine. No "secrets" for me, thankyou.

Oh, BTW - Eric, not trying to be rude, but whether or not George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Voltaire were lodge members is irrelavant. Masonry (or any organization, for that matter) ought to be judged on the totality of its own substance, & not on the status, popularity, or power of its membership. Take the democratic party, for instance...I think you get my point.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 6:25:53 PM EST
Marked for later.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 6:49:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 6:57:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Ask the local chaper if they are ok with you bringing your carry piece to meetings in thier lodge. That answer should be enough for you to decide to join or not.


They've never questioned me about my carry piece. I don't advertise the fact that I'm carrying, but
most everybody who knows me, knows that I do, including to the Lodge. No reason not to....
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 7:59:55 PM EST
JD in my blue lodge, and a 32ND degree Mason in the Valley of Cleveland (Scottish Rite). To those of you beginning your journey, welcome to our ancient and honorable fraternity!!!!!To those who insist upon spewing ignorant and misleading information, go play in the street. We don't need your foolishness.....
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 8:04:38 PM EST
The Free Masons I've known in my life were nice guys. I never joined because I'm basically a loner type but they were nice guys.
Link Posted: 7/28/2004 8:16:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2004 8:20:02 PM EST by kpel308]
Link Posted: 7/29/2004 6:32:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
I've known a number of Masons, some seemingly great folks, others downright corrupt (No, I'm not making that up). Yet, I've always found it rather incongruent that a number of people who subscribe to Christianity also belong to the Masonic lodge, since certain Masonic rites are derived from Mormonism, a religious doctrine that does not agree w/ Christianity (I don't care what Mormons say - there are conflicts between the Bible & the Mormon books: Doctrines & Covenants & Pearl of Great Price). Also, it seems that the pervasive super-secret squirrel-type theme characterizing Masonry is rather un-Christian, in that Christ wasn't much of an exclusivist - unless I've read incorrectly.

But, frankly, I find the secrecy aspect to be rather immature. I mean, c'mon - reminds me of little girls w/ their "secrets", - "..I've got a secret, I've got a secret!" Gimme a break. Why do people who value character & honor need to utilize frat-like "secrecy" & pseudo-religious ritualism to justify acceptance & association? My friends are my friends on the basis of who they are & how they act - something that requires a consistency of character which cannot be satisfied by (questionable) ritualisms. they don;t have to "strip naked", or "swear" to this or that. They just have to behave the way good friends should.

But I digress. I'm no dictator, & it's your life, so make your own decisions, as I have mine. No "secrets" for me, thankyou.

Oh, BTW - Eric, not trying to be rude, but whether or not George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Voltaire were lodge members is irrelavant. Masonry (or any organization, for that matter) ought to be judged on the totality of its own substance, & not on the status, popularity, or power of its membership. Take the democratic party, for instance...I think you get my point.




These are pretty well my own thoughts. I joined an honor society in college once, and regret it. I have an extreme distrust of anything secretive in nature. While I don't doubt that some fine Christians are members of secret societies ( I know a few!), I have never found anything to support the secretive nature. I prefer to be accepted by open-to-all institutions (such as arfcom!), and don't care to go through any ritual or rite of initiation, especially those performed in darkeness or by candlelight or that require me to pledge an oath that I can't study and contemplate beforehand.
Link Posted: 7/29/2004 6:35:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By kpel308:
Junior Warden-elect of Napthali Lodge #25, St. Louis, Missouri, and a candidate for Moolah Shrine come November for the next ceremonial.

As far as the comment above about being naked and being ridiculed, nothing could be further from the truth. There is absolutely nothing about the initiation of an Entered Apprentice that is conducive to humor or embarrassment. It is a solemn and meaningful event, which is meant to cause the candidate to reflect on his relationship with God. A candidate is garbed in a certain fashion, and the reason for it is made clear to him during the ceremony itself.

There is nothing in a Masonic ritual that would cause anyone embarrassment, nor would ridicule or levity at the expense of another brother be tolerated.

You have my word on that.

Freemasonry's objective is to bring its members closer to God, and to help its members to help other people. I assure you that I have never encountered anything sinister in Freemasonry, and am proud to be a Mason.

We are not a secret society, but are a society that has secrets. None of these secrets are sinister in nature, but use symbolism and allegory to help each brother to become closer to God.

BTW: There are quite a few shooters in our lodge, and arrangements are made for the convenience of those brothers that are legally carrying.



I ask this in all seriousness, you can answer by IM if you wish, but I would in all seriousness like to know, for reasons I'll explain via IM if you like.

Can you ( a simple yes or no will do) share any or all of those secrets with individuals who are not a member of your society?
Link Posted: 7/29/2004 6:58:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/29/2004 7:03:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/29/2004 7:04:18 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 7/29/2004 7:08:15 AM EST
So would a Mason, any Mason, answer this question for me:

A simple yes or no will suffice; I will not prod for further info if you will just tell me:

Can you, as a mason, reveal to a non-mason (ANY non-mason), the initiation ceromony, your oaths, etc, or the works you read from as masons, etc, etc, etc.

Is there ANY of your secret or secretive material or teachings (or things that you have learned that you otherwise could not have) that you can, while maintaining your committment to the Masons, reveal to ANY non-mason?

The question has nothing to do with my desire to join. I have no such desire. It has nothing to do with my opinions of you as individuals. If someone really wants to know why I ask, IM me. If you prefer to answer in private, IM me. But I would really like an answer to this.
Link Posted: 7/29/2004 7:09:36 AM EST
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