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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/5/2003 4:19:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 4:19:46 PM EDT by SeaDweller]
[b]Take responsibility for your own actions and prepare to suffer the consequences![/b] [img]http://sfgate.com/chronicle/pictures/2003/06/05/ba_koi.jpg[/img] [url]http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/06/05/MN94963.DTL[/url]
Santa Cruz mourns one that didn't get away Beloved campus koi stolen, possibly grilled Two frat boys could face felony fish theft and cruelty charges for koi- napping a beloved jumbo goldfish from a pond at UC Santa Cruz -- and reportedly barbecuing and eating it. On a campus renowned for vegetarian devotion and counterculture values, anger over the slaying of the gentle, 15-year-old giant gold carp named Goldie was further fueled by news that the confessed thieves were Delta Omega Chi members, an off-campus fraternity that is being taped by MTV network's "Fraternity Life" reality show. "FRAT Bastards" screamed a headline atop Wednesday's edition of the alternative campus newspaper, Fish Rap Live! It bore a cartoon showing a fraternity kegger/barbecue at the campus koi pond with a frat brother biting into a wide-eyed koi as others are passed out or romping in the pool while a TV camera captures the mayhem. The furor was inflamed by reports that the fish filchers used a stolen rake to whack Goldie and then scoop her from the pond during the early-morning raid on May 20. 'SENSE OF VIOLATION' "I've heard from both students and staff a sense of violation," said David Evan Jones, provost at the university's Porter College, where Goldie was the celebrated big fish -- 18 inches -- in a small courtyard pond. "It's more than a fish -- it's a pet," Jones said. "So students are reacting to the loss of an animal that they've grown to know and love that was taken away and killed." The whiskered carp was a 1995 gift from David Swanger, an education and creative writing professor. Koi have an average life span of 25 to 35 years -- and some legendary Japanese specimens span two centuries, according to koi fanciers -- so the 15-year-old Goldie was cut down in her youth. During her life, Goldie had survived raids by raccoons and had become a favorite among students who hand-fed her treats and among kids from the campus day-care center who visited regularly. "Poor little fish was just swimming around minding his own business," fumed Deborah Munos, an attendant at the campus entrance kiosk. "It's absolutely ridiculous." Several saddened and angry students were drawn to the peaceful pool where dozens of ornamental carp still glide. 'SWIM WITH THE ANGELS' "Goldie, swim with the angels," someone wrote on a cardboard memorial bearing a color sketch of the 18-inch fish propped up on the triangular pond Wednesday afternoon. "F-- MTV!" scrawled a less diplomatic scribe. "Why would they take a fish that's been here for years just to do something crazy," said Crystal Doyal, a senior psychology major. "I'm just so mad." MTV quickly disavowed any role in the koi caper. "MTV had no involvement in this incident," said network spokeswoman Eileen Quast. "We didn't shoot the incident and have no plans to include it in the story line." Filming of the local frat episode ends this week and will air later in the year. This was not the first time shenanigans with wildlife have sparked controversy during filming of MTV's "Fraternity Life" show. A University of Buffalo frat currently on the show drew a district attorney's investigation in March after on-camera frat pledges broke into the local zoo and pondered aloud about stealing an animal as a mascot before leaving empty-handed, according to the Associated Press. TWO MALE STUDENTS UC Santa Cruz spokeswoman Elizabeth Irwin said a campus police investigation indicated that the two male students are the only ones on the hook for the incident -- with no involvement by their fraternity. The university isn't identifying the pair because no legal action has been taken, but police reports will be referred to the district attorney for possible prosecution. A student judiciary committee could also impose punishment ranging from a written reprimand to suspension or expulsion. "Rumor has it that the fish was cooked and eaten," said Santa Cruz County District Attorney Bob Lee, who said he hasn't received the police paperwork and couldn't confirm details of the escapade. Speaking hypothetically, he said, because the fish was valued at more than $400 -- police estimated $750 -- the men could face charges of grand theft and animal cruelty. At the gray-blue, three-story frat house overlooking the Santa Cruz boat harbor, a young man wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with "Need Sex" and using a walker answered the door Wednesday. A TV sound boom hovered overhead, but the frat brother said he couldn't speak with the press. MTV CONTRACT "We're under contract with MTV, so we can't talk about anything," he said. An MTV producer appeared from behind the house to confirm the restriction and also declined to comment. Irwin said the two students came forward Tuesday, expressed remorse for the fish fatality and paid $650 to cover the cost of a replacement koi. But fish fans want the pair deep-fried -- especially at Porter, home to UCSC arts programs and "arty" students who embrace an "alternative" philosophy, according to residents. "Porter is anti-MTV and anti-frat generally," said a college resident who only identified himself as Eric. "Combine the two and then steal a fish -- of course people are going to be pissed off." E-mail Alan Gathright at agathright@sfchronicle.com.
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I think they should also be charged with theft of state property because the fish was part of the UC System.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:29:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:30:07 PM EDT
Does carp taste good?
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:36:22 PM EDT
I've never had carp, but I think that's because NO ONE eats it. Being in a fraternity, I can tell you if the members actually stole the fish and cooked it, only the pledges got to partake in the big goldfish delight. ;) - Matt
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:42:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LotBoy: Does carp taste good?
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I refuse to eat the bony fish unless it's a life or death situation. I tried to catch & release them before to no avail. They didn't bite. If you buy a jar of gelfite fish carp is one of the ingredients. Let me know what's up.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:42:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: When's the last time MTV played something that resembled music? Agreed with the first line of your post, but I still like anything which gets so many liberals all up in a tizzy.
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Even though I think VH1 and MTV are somewhat related VH1 is better. MTV for the most part, sucks! And to think there was a time when MTV refused to play certain music videos. I do think it's pretty funny that the libs are going crazy over this. Santa Cruz is a pretty weird city.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:46:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 4:48:06 PM EDT by LotBoy]
Originally Posted By SeaDweller:
Originally Posted By LotBoy: Does carp taste good?
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I refuse to eat the bony fish unless it's a life or death situation. I tried to catch & release them before to no avail. They didn't bite. If you buy a jar of gelfite fish carp is one of the ingredients. Let me know what's up.
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I think carp is popular in Asia. I also think they farm carp here in Arizona for export to Asian markets.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:49:07 PM EDT
I'm confused. I know stealing is wrong. But how can something that gets the libs so pissed be all bad.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:49:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LotBoy:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller:
Originally Posted By LotBoy: Does carp taste good?
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I refuse to eat the bony fish unless it's a life or death situation. I tried to catch & release them before to no avail. They didn't bite. If you buy a jar of gelfite fish carp is one of the ingredients. Let me know what's up.
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I think carp is popular in Asia. I also think they farm carp here in Arizona for export to Asian markets.
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That doesn't surprise me. Those hungry bastards will eat anything that moves, or doesn't move.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:58:15 PM EDT
The secret to eating carp is to cut it into thumb-sized squares and make a stew out of it (carrots, potatoes, peas..ect.) If it came down to carp or death, i'd choose carp. In my younger days we would rent a row boat and cruise the shores of lakes during the carp mating season, they pratcially stick out of the water they get so close to shore, one good whack on the head with a 10 ft wooden oar and its all over. Ahhhh, how I miss the stank odor of carp and wild carrots boiling over an open fire.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:58:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Max_Power: I'm confused. I know stealing is wrong. But how can something that gets the libs so pissed be all bad.
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Koi fish are very expensive.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:10:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wil-N-VA: The secret to eating carp is to cut it into thumb-sized squares and make a stew out of it (carrots, potatoes, peas..ect.) If it came down to carp or death, i'd choose carp. In my younger days we would rent a row boat and cruise the shores of lakes during the carp mating season, they pratcially stick out of the water they get so close to shore, one good whack on the head with a 10 ft wooden oar and its all over. Ahhhh, how I miss the stank odor of carp and wild carrots boiling over an open fire.
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I guess that fishing/clubbing method works cause they sure do like to swim at the top. Stank odor of carp on an open fire? Maybe death ain't too bad after all.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:10:53 PM EDT
Sounds just like frat boys. :) I think I would sue MTV, let them pay for some of their stunts. SNICKER
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:23:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 5:25:18 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
What if someone stole and ate YOUR DOG? Think that would be funny? [url=www.eldon-koi.com/]Check out how much koi can be worth.[/url]
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:25:14 PM EDT
Obviously, the owners of the departed koi should sue the manufacturer of the rake.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:51:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: What if someone stole and ate YOUR DOG? Think that would be funny? [url=www.eldon-koi.com/]Check out how much koi can be worth.[/url]
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No laughing matter. THis is serious business. It was on the front page of a paper with daily circulation of about a 1/2 million. [b] If someone did that to my dog I would use a rake and hit them over the head. If someone knocked over my dog's tombstone I would still use a rake to hit them over the head.[/b] THanks for the link I never saw koi in that price range before. Purebred koi, AKC?
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:32:19 PM EDT
People need to get a life, it was a damn [b]FISH[/b]! They act like they killed and bbq'd a person. Hell, 18 inch goldfish, we'ed ran a 4/0 hook through his back and tied him to a limb in the river. Big 'ol flatheads love goldfish.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:00:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 8:02:30 PM EDT by SeaDweller]
Originally Posted By DSVET91: People need to get a life, it was a damn [b]FISH[/b]! They act like they killed and bbq'd a person. Hell, 18 inch goldfish, we'ed ran a 4/0 hook through his back and tied him to a limb in the river. Big 'ol flatheads love goldfish.
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Fish in the wild are fair game, but this is not the case here. If those frat idiots get a jury of their peers in Santa Cruz, no doubt they will fry. They might have got away with this shit on some other campus, but not at UCSC.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:04:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DSVET91: People need to get a life, it was a damn [b]FISH[/b]! They act like they killed and bbq'd a person. Hell, 18 inch goldfish, we'ed ran a 4/0 hook through his back and tied him to a limb in the river. Big 'ol flatheads love goldfish.
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It's not just a fish.........I't's a very expensive fish. You don't use a $ 400 Koi as catfish bait and $ 400 is very very cheap as Koi go. Plus the point is they stole it ! It's going to be one expensive meal and lesson for these 2 college educated moron's....
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:17:50 PM EDT
Normally, i'd be somewhat pissed at frat asswhores killing a pet, HOWEVER...this line made me feel otherwise:
On a campus renowned for vegetarian devotion and counterculture values
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Now I feel better about the whole incident! I hope MTV makes something funny out of it at the very least, maybe poking fun at the idiot wanna-be-hippy-peacenik-fucksticks.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:29:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LotBoy: Does carp taste good?
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How to cook a carp: Take two pieces of plywood, Place carp in between plywood, Bake in oven for 2 hours at 400 degrees, Remove from oven, Remove carp from plywood, Eat plywood.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:31:52 PM EDT
Normally I would deplore the theft of public property, but then it probably wasn't the fraternity guys' fault. As it was said in the previous post, "...On a campus renowned for vegetarian devotion and counterculture values..." after a couple of semesters languishing under this environment, it would drive any normal person insane and compel them to steal and eat $1000 carp. It's the hippies' fault.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:43:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 8:44:04 PM EDT by SeaDweller]
Originally Posted By ZRH:
Originally Posted By LotBoy: Does carp taste good?
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How to cook a carp: Take two pieces of plywood, Place carp in between plywood, Bake in oven for 2 hours at 400 degrees, Remove from oven, Remove carp from plywood, Eat plywood.
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That bad huh? I was reading a fishing book before but there were no recipes for carp. Now I know why.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:46:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By llanero: Normally I would deplore the theft of public property, but then it probably wasn't the fraternity guys' fault. As it was said in the previous post, "...On a campus renowned for vegetarian devotion and counterculture values..." after a couple of semesters languishing under this environment, it would drive any normal person insane and compel them to steal and eat $1000 carp. It's the hippies' fault.
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Pretty funny. If those frat morons weren't so cheap they could've drove a few miles down the coast to Monterey where real seafood can be found.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:46:15 PM EDT
I would use lethal force to protect the life of my dog if I had to, legal consequences be damned. (Although that type of situation (i.e., unjustified use of lethal force) is why I have a clean "throwndown" piece [;)]). I wouldn't do that for a fish.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:48:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 8:49:28 PM EDT by ZRH]
Upstate NY Pickup: Dog in the front seat, wife in the back.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:57:18 PM EDT
Theft is theft they should be charged I dont care if u still from a liberal or a conservative its still theft. the cruelty charge's are BS thu.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:57:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller:
Originally Posted By LotBoy: Does carp taste good?
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I refuse to eat the bony fish unless it's a life or death situation. I tried to catch & release them before to no avail. They didn't bite. If you buy a jar of gelfite fish carp is one of the ingredients. Let me know what's up.
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Jewish Carp is Sturgeon or White Fish, from the sea. Sturgen also produces caviar eggs.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:01:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DSVET91: People need to get a life, it was a damn [b]FISH[/b]! They act like they killed and bbq'd a person. Hell, 18 inch goldfish, we'ed ran a 4/0 hook through his back and tied him to a limb in the river. Big 'ol flatheads love goldfish.
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Do not underestimate the affection college students can have for pond fish. At my college, we had a fish pond too. Between the dining building and the classrooms that was stocked with carp and catfish. The giant catfish in the small pond was known as "Stan". People would feed him handfuls of cereal they took from the cafeteria after breakfast. The fish was enormous, and had been there for over a decade. When it died in 1999 or so, it was a big deal. Stan had an obituary in the alumni magazine. The senior class had Stan stuffed and mounted in the cafeteria. When I visited in 2002, the freshmen were asked me with wide eyes "You went here when Stan was alive? That's so cool!" If idiot townies or freshmen had speared Stan and bludgeoned him with a rake so they could look like idiots for MTV.....gosh......any students would have been expelled for sure. No telling what else would have happened to the townies.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:02:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tangeant:
Originally Posted By DSVET91: People need to get a life, it was a damn [b]FISH[/b]! They act like they killed and bbq'd a person. Hell, 18 inch goldfish, we'ed ran a 4/0 hook through his back and tied him to a limb in the river. Big 'ol flatheads love goldfish.
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It's not just a fish.........I't's a very expensive fish. You don't use a $ 400 Koi as catfish bait and $ 400 is very very cheap as Koi go. Plus the point is they stole it ! It's going to be one expensive meal and lesson for these 2 college educated moron's....
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I agree it they were wrong for stealing it, and they should be punished for it. But to get all touchy-feely over a fish. Give me a break. Thank you, PETA.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:03:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller:
Originally Posted By LotBoy: Does carp taste good?
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I refuse to eat the bony fish unless it's a life or death situation. I tried to catch & release them before to no avail. They didn't bite. If you buy a jar of gelfite fish carp is one of the ingredients. Let me know what's up.
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Jewish Carp is Sturgeon or White Fish, from the sea. Sturgen also produces caviar eggs.
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Thanks for the clarification. The jars I've seen simply said carp, mullet, pike and ocean whitefish.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:42:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 10:10:59 PM EDT by llanero]
The secret to eating carp, I was recently told, lies in a few factors. Firstly, the carp needs to come from good clear water--something we are blessed with in the Ozarks. Secondly, you HAVE to cut out the red "mud vein" that goes down the sides of the filleted meat. Thirdly, you need to cube the meat into smallish (3/4") cubes. Fourthly, you roll the meat in corn flour and fry in the hottest grease (peanut oil has a pretty high flash point and seems to be the one to use) you can find--the old timer telling me this made sure to add that the oil has to be curling smoke when you drop the fish cubes in. Fifthly, and this one comes up whenever the discussion turns to eating critters that are marginally palatable, be sure to eat the stuff while it's still hot. Weather permitting, I'll be doing some bow fishing on Sunday==mebbe dinner pics will follow!
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:59:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tangeant:
Originally Posted By DSVET91: People need to get a life, it was a damn [b]FISH[/b]! They act like they killed and bbq'd a person. Hell, 18 inch goldfish, we'ed ran a 4/0 hook through his back and tied him to a limb in the river. Big 'ol flatheads love goldfish.
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It's not just a fish.........I't's a very expensive fish. You don't use a $ 400 Koi as catfish bait and $ 400 is very very cheap as Koi go. Plus the point is they stole it ! It's going to be one expensive meal and lesson for these 2 college educated moron's....
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Actually koi can go for as little as $4.50 to $35000. I raised five of the former for three years and got them to a decent size. Then an otter (we think) decieded to have fun. Ate two of them and killed the rest for fun. I tried common gold fish the next year with the same results. I did have a neighbor report to me that she had seen six racoons walking down the middle of the street, wearing red bandanas with the fur shaved off below the right knee. No arrests were made.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 10:06:47 PM EDT
Yeah, it was cruel, but at least they paid for it. It says they shelled out $650 for restitution in the article.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:10:25 AM EDT
They should be treated like anyone else who stole something worth about that much. But spare me the hand-wringing craapola about cruelty aand the sentimental BS about it being a pet or mascot, etc. That campus up there is full of a bunch of spoiled pussies who just don't have a grounding in reality. Not long ago, their ELF splinter gorup went around vandalizing SUV's with spray paint, etc. They didn't have a problem screwing up someone else's property, but now they are whining aobut the mean frat boys. I happen to know a Santa Crus student, and while she is intelligent, she pissed me off with her lack of loyalty to the U.S. - thinks the Pledge of Allegiance is a bunch of meaningless hokey. I could give you many other examples of her arrested development, but don't want to get myself up in a lather. As far as I'm concerned, a tsunami would be a big help.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:30:32 AM EDT
Gonna ruin these kids lives over a fucking fish! The police will jack the $$ value up to get them the highest level of charges.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:44:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:51:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Valkyrie: Gonna ruin these kids lives over a fucking fish! The police will jack the $$ value up to get them the highest level of charges.
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Grand theft in Kommiefornia is USD >400 if I recall. If convicted of felony grand theft, they could get county jail or prison time and fines up to USD 10,000. I bet those college kids ain't laughing no more. Not too long ago that guy who threw Leo the Bichon Frise out on the freway was sentenced to 3 years in state prison. Fcking with animals in Kommiefornia is no laughing matter.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:14:17 AM EDT
I wonder if a koi could be trained to do tricks.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:16:50 AM EDT
If I were the judge, I would sentence a delayed felony/prison time. Have the idiots who stole the fish have to replace it with a similar one and have to ensure it survives for 5 years in the same college pond. Once the fish reaches the the 5 year mark, felony is gone. Should the new fish die for "any" reason before the five year mark, they have the option to take the felony, or start over from scratch for another 5 years, and so on and so on. Maybe be nice and allow them to start with 5 fish and only one has to survive for the full five years. Betcha that fish would be well taken care of! Would teach them about how much time and effort must be spent on raising fish and why something might be dear to another person regardless of whether it's just a fish.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:27:32 AM EDT
So many things make this a screwy case. UCSC is famous for one thing and one thing only: Drugs. UC Santa Barbera is the party school, Berkeley the 60's leftovers, UCLA is 70% Asian but Santa Cruz has lots and lots of cheap drugs and not much else. MTV heaven. Also, Koi live longer than most people. After a time they start acting like friendly dogs not fish. Back in Japan they are dogs! For those two fools to kill and eat an old one is beyond bad, it's incredible. I smell an MTV PR stunt. They do it all the time. If that's the case those two punks should pay and pay dearly.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 4:55:14 AM EDT
Carp are considered a delicacy in some circles/cultures. Carp have a mud vein that if ruptured while cleaning taints the meat. Best solution I have seen was to have a wire basket suspended from a dock/pier that doesn't allow for the carp to come in contact with the bottom of the lake/river. After a couple days the mud vein is cleaned out and no longer an issue. The meat is very good. Delicacy...i dunno, but some say kimchi is a delicacy too....brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... no thanks.
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