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Posted: 11/10/2015 12:34:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2015 6:46:15 AM EDT by 8balls]
EDIT:
IT IS OUT NOW:
Full time line, materials (translated), details here in English:
http://www.toiminta-ampujat.fi/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32778

The fight is on. Different national organizations are contacting their elected officials, EU-wide information sharing campaign ongoing.


How can YOU help?

If you know any shooters in EU who still might be unaware, please hit them with this:
http://www.toiminta-ampujat.fi/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32778

And while you are on it: Nuke this petition:
https://www.change.org/p/council-of-the-european-union-eu-you-cannot-stop-terrorism-by-restricting-legal-gun-ownership?recruiter=429799090&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive










Note meant specifically for members in EU countries.

Recents acts of terror in France has caused France to drive (silently, through backdoor with expedited schedule) new EU-wide assault weapons ban. As examples we can list the charlie hebdo shooting (illegal full auto assault weapons converted from deactivated AKs), french train shooting attempt (same story, illegal AK, converted, did not work) and list goes on...

In short, the following limitations are said to be considered:

- Semiautomatic rifles (read IPSC rifles, hunting rifles) are moved to category A, which in practice means outright ban for private individuals.
- Full auto firearms completely banned (including collectors)
- Deactivated full auto firearms banned (including collectors)
- "restrictions internet sales", whatever that means.

The EU taskforce planning this of course denies everything - but below you find indications that this thing is happening behind the scenes.





Below you can find translated version of news article giving the short version of the events:

The European Union prepares an update of weapons directive. According to information from Finnish Ministry of Interior the planned measures are ban full auto firearms from private citizens and changes to internet sales of firearms and associated material as well was changes to availability of semiautomatic firearms.

"According to our knowledge the biggest changes are band of full auto firearms and moving semiauto firearms which resemble military firearms to category A. We do not know exactly yet which weapons would be part of this category" states police inspector Seppo Sivula from ministry of Interior.

The ban of full auto weapons would also include deactivated firearms and in addition EU comission is considering ban of semiautomatic version os assault rifles and carbines.

The weapons on the list are normally used in Finnish army reserve shooting competitions where stages resember combat scenarios. Changes would also impact other sports like practical shooting.

"This ban concerns thousands or tens of thousands of law abiding citizens and it has big impact. At least the weapons would have to conform to new rules but they would not necessary any longer fit to the rules and nature of the sport."

The changes would also have a big impact on the combat efficiency of Finnish reserve because reserve actively practices with firearms such as this. Even though stages resemble realistic scenarios, the sport is still very strictly controlled.

According to Finnish ministry of interior the ban would only have minor impact to weapons typically used for hunting.

The Ministry of interior opposes the changes and tries to change it so that the ban would not be too strict.

"I dont think that banning of certain types of firearms would diminish illegal and criminal use of firearms but would only apply to law abiding citizens. They would also have an impact on the skills and motivation of the army reserve" Sivula states.

According to Ministry of Interior full auto firearms should be allowed for purposes of weapons collecting. These days for example automatic weapons used by Finnish army in second world war are collected by the approved collectors. There are no known crimes made with these ewapons.

Restrictions to internet trade are opposed because it would make it harder for people living in the country side to keep practicing their sport because the nearest gun store might be hundreds of kilometers away.

Ministry of interior would control the illegal use of firearms by uniting the laws and practices when it comes gun parts in EU because parts legal in one country can be illegal in others. Also change of information regarding arms trafficing would have to improved.

The official statement from EU comission has not been published but it is expected early next year. The motive for this are the worries about potential security risks of illegal use of firearms by criminals.

[end of translation]

Since this has been done in silence, there are very few indications that anything is happening on EU level, however, number of Finnish shooters have started to gather (and spread) intel on whats happening to provide early warning to other national association in EU.

This much we know for a fact:

The whole translated news article is based on the official statement released by Finnish Ministry of Interior - found here:
http://www.intermin.fi/fi/ajankohtaista/uutiset/1/1/sisaministerio_pyrkii_vaikuttamaan_eu_n_asedirektiivin_mahdollisiin_muutoksiin_63487#.VjsMdWVirwA.facebook

Also the web page of the Finnish parlament has mentioning about it:
https://www.eduskunta.fi/FI/vaski/Esityslista/Sivut/HaVE_28+2015.aspx

Valtioneuvoston selvitys: Asedirektiivin muuttaminen
Valtioneuvoston E-selvitys
E 60/2015 vp
Esityslistan liite EDK-2015-AK-23666
E 60/2015 vp Perusmuistio
Asia on saapunut hallintovaliokuntaan mahdollisia toimenpiteitä varten. = translation: issue has been received and is waiting for processing.

Internal memo can be found here:
https://www.eduskunta.fi/FI/vaski/Liiteasiakirja/Documents/EDK-2015-AK-22071.pdf (note, this is not a leak, but information available public through internet)

When contacting the head of Taskforce for Firearms the following (copy-paste) statement was issued via mail:

"I can inform you that the Commission has not taken any decision about the timing for the revision of the EU legislation on firearms and its possible topics. So the news about a possible consideration of the semi-automatic weapons does not seem to be correct. The Commission will assess in due time any aspect of a possible revision of the EU legislation taking into account the position of all stakeholders.
Kind Regards

Fabio Marini
Head of Task Force Firearms
DG HOME
European Commission"

This statement was given - clearly it is in contradiction with facts. Also, we have been indicated (by our "inside man") that there was supposed to be a session where new restrictions were supposed to be introduced on 30th, but it was postponed. We are not aware if new has been set.

If you are citizen of one of the EU countries - please try to do similar intelligence gathering on your side, and try organize a proper political response to put a stop to this behind the scenes lobbying. Spread information, gather information and most importantly, contact your elected representative to voice your opinion in firm, but polite fashion. Out-lawing illegal weapons would be a good starting point. :)

For this proposal to go through, it must be supported by 16 of 28 EU members, with over 65% of EU population.

And note from Finland, which has 1320 kms of common land border with Russia - now is not the right time to disarm the Finnish reserve. Same applies to all other EU countries as well.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 12:57:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2015 12:58:18 PM EDT by Leon82]
Fuck them. The UN too
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:07:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2015 1:07:59 PM EDT by jm0502]
Id hate to know what could be destroyed if this passes.

this was recently found in Italy
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:09:58 PM EDT
Why do they think this would help!?

Are you really trying to disarm your lawful citizens in the midst of a immigrant invasion
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:10:41 PM EDT
Secretly but you know about it...spare me the clickbait.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:11:27 PM EDT
we should disarm france and give them back to the Germans.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:11:45 PM EDT
Yeah, ok, because .ter won't just get them from ME countries smuggled in to the EU.

It's apparently easier to convert "deactivated" weapons right now, banning them will not stop .ter from being armed.

Feel good nonsense that disarms the rest of Europe vs the bad guys.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:12:50 PM EDT
some secret.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:16:26 PM EDT
I'm confused. These attacks used illegal weapons, so make more weapons illegal to stop the problem.

I swear trying understand the thought process is like trying to divide by zero.

Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:18:42 PM EDT
So they ban guns, and Finland tells the EU to FO. Russia decides Europe is ripe for the taking and invades, and only the swiss and the Scandinavians put up a resistance. Meanwhile, the French race to the front lines to surrender. Then everyone wants us to go in and kick out the Russians, so that the Europeans can try to get us to ban our guns.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:25:14 PM EDT
I'm shocked how willingly Europe turned over it's governance to unelected EU bureaucrats.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:27:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2015 1:27:35 PM EDT by Medicfrost]
Will Austria leave the EU?
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:27:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jm0502:
Id hate to know what could be destroyed if this passes.

this was recently found in Italy
https://imageshack.us/a/img62/2576/86908336.jpg
View Quote


Oh...
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:29:00 PM EDT
The EU is an authoritarian regime with centralized power, they don't care what the local population wants. Their only goal is to maintain power over the people and the people having access to ANY firearms will get in the way of that.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:29:08 PM EDT
Citizens will wave the white flag there anyways
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:29:48 PM EDT
Fucking French.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:31:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2015 1:32:45 PM EDT by SD307]
t hats a great idea let 400,000 Muslims into your continent then ban guns. great idea. really well thought out, dynamite

can you even get semi autos outside of the US everyone else has FA or bolt action it seems.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:32:50 PM EDT
Bad times are brewing
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:37:57 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Golden-Arm:
some secret.
View Quote


Well, its not like they did not try to keep it as a "secret".

It was very behind-the-scenes, and Finnish gun owners associations heard about it when they they were asked to give statements and prepare for hearings where they can voice their opinion. Apparently same level of political transparency is not present everywhere.

Now, the problem is that there were few acts of terror done with illegal weapons. As a result, they are going after law abiding citizens as usual because we are an easy mark.

The problem is that for example Finland does not have an army. Finland is an army. Basically 85% of males go through military service and are part of reserve. That reserve has weapons and regularly trains with them to maintain their skillset. This part of our credible defense against potential invasion from hostile neighbours, such as Estonia, Norway and Sweden. We would, of course, never expect these kind acts of agression peaceloving Russia.

France, though being member of Nato and very far from eastern Europe seems to be now pushing for very a very dangerous short term "solution", which potentially dangerous consequences.

Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:37:59 PM EDT
Going to ban the guns even before they have a chance to throw them down in surrender.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:41:35 PM EDT
This will have zero effect on the already plentiful illegal weapons. All it will do is penalize those who are attempting to be law-abiding. And increase already-growing contempt for the EU in general.

Greece has draconian gun laws (on paper). For example, any kind of rifled long guns are practically prohibited. Yet, the country is awash with AK-47's (mostly smuggled in from neighboring Albania when the Hoxha regime fell). Plus, there are a lot of WW2 guns still floating around from the Occupation and the Civil War that followed. You can't put the genie back into the bottle.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:42:31 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By saigamanTX:
Fucking French.
View Quote

No need to say more
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:43:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2015 1:43:36 PM EDT by bucsfan69]
French pussies
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:46:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bigtwinlvr:
So they ban guns, and Finland tells the EU to FO. Russia decides Europe is ripe for the taking and invades, and only the swiss and the Scandinavians put up a resistance. Meanwhile, the French race to the front lines to surrender. Then everyone wants us to go in and kick out the Russians, so that the Europeans can try to get us to ban our guns.
View Quote


We better not bail them out again when they're dumb enough to get themselves in trouble.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:51:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By glockluv:
Why do they think this would help!?

Are you really trying to disarm your lawful citizens in the midst of a immigrant invasion
View Quote


Of course they want to disarm anybody that might resist. Their leaders welcome the invasion in case you hadn't noticed. This measure will pass too since you r average European owns no firearms and never has. They will meet minimal resistance to it.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 2:22:28 PM EDT
If I were a member of a government which is intent on taking actions which a majority of the people oppose, I would be certain to disarm them too.

Too bad this sounds familiar: Freidman, NYSRAPA.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 2:53:43 PM EDT
I don't give a fuck about Europe anymore, they have brought all of it on themselves.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 2:54:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 8balls:
Note meant specifically for members in EU countries.

Recents acts of terror in France has caused France to drive (silently, through backdoor with expedited schedule) new EU-wide assault weapons ban. As examples we can list the charlie hebdo shooting (illegal full auto assault weapons converted from deactivated AKs), french train shooting attempt (same story, illegal AK, converted, did not work) and list goes on...

In short, the following limitations are said to be considered:

- Semiautomatic rifles (read IPSC rifles, hunting rifles) are moved to category A, which in practice means outright ban for private individuals.
- Full auto firearms completely banned (including collectors)
- Deactivated full auto firearms banned (including collectors)
- "restrictions internet sales", whatever that means.

The EU taskforce planning this of course denies everything - but below you find indications that this thing is happening behind the scenes.





Below you can find translated version of news article giving the short version of the events:

The European Union prepares an update of weapons directive. According to information from Finnish Ministry of Interior the planned measures are ban full auto firearms from private citizens and changes to internet sales of firearms and associated material as well was changes to availability of semiautomatic firearms.

"According to our knowledge the biggest changes are band of full auto firearms and moving semiauto firearms which resemble military firearms to category A. We do not know exactly yet which weapons would be part of this category" states police inspector Seppo Sivula from ministry of Interior.

The ban of full auto weapons would also include deactivated firearms and in addition EU comission is considering ban of semiautomatic version os assault rifles and carbines.

The weapons on the list are normally used in Finnish army reserve shooting competitions where stages resember combat scenarios. Changes would also impact other sports like practical shooting.

"This ban concerns thousands or tens of thousands of law abiding citizens and it has big impact. At least the weapons would have to conform to new rules but they would not necessary any longer fit to the rules and nature of the sport."

The changes would also have a big impact on the combat efficiency of Finnish reserve because reserve actively practices with firearms such as this. Even though stages resemble realistic scenarios, the sport is still very strictly controlled.

According to Finnish ministry of interior the ban would only have minor impact to weapons typically used for hunting.

The Ministry of interior opposes the changes and tries to change it so that the ban would not be too strict.

"I dont think that banning of certain types of firearms would diminish illegal and criminal use of firearms but would only apply to law abiding citizens. They would also have an impact on the skills and motivation of the army reserve" Sivula states.

According to Ministry of Interior full auto firearms should be allowed for purposes of weapons collecting. These days for example automatic weapons used by Finnish army in second world war are collected by the approved collectors. There are no known crimes made with these ewapons.

Restrictions to internet trade are opposed because it would make it harder for people living in the country side to keep practicing their sport because the nearest gun store might be hundreds of kilometers away.

Ministry of interior would control the illegal use of firearms by uniting the laws and practices when it comes gun parts in EU because parts legal in one country can be illegal in others. Also change of information regarding arms trafficing would have to improved.

The official statement from EU comission has not been published but it is expected early next year. The motive for this are the worries about potential security risks of illegal use of firearms by criminals.

[end of translation]

Since this has been done in silence, there are very few indications that anything is happening on EU level, however, number of Finnish shooters have started to gather (and spread) intel on whats happening to provide early warning to other national association in EU.

This much we know for a fact:

The whole translated news article is based on the official statement released by Finnish Ministry of Interior - found here:
http://www.intermin.fi/fi/ajankohtaista/uutiset/1/1/sisaministerio_pyrkii_vaikuttamaan_eu_n_asedirektiivin_mahdollisiin_muutoksiin_63487#.VjsMdWVirwA.facebook

Also the web page of the Finnish parlament has mentioning about it:
https://www.eduskunta.fi/FI/vaski/Esityslista/Sivut/HaVE_28+2015.aspx

Valtioneuvoston selvitys: Asedirektiivin muuttaminen
Valtioneuvoston E-selvitys
E 60/2015 vp
Esityslistan liite EDK-2015-AK-23666
E 60/2015 vp Perusmuistio
Asia on saapunut hallintovaliokuntaan mahdollisia toimenpiteitä varten. = translation: issue has been received and is waiting for processing.

Internal memo can be found here:
https://www.eduskunta.fi/FI/vaski/Liiteasiakirja/Documents/EDK-2015-AK-22071.pdf (note, this is not a leak, but information available public through internet)

When contacting the head of Taskforce for Firearms the following (copy-paste) statement was issued via mail:

"I can inform you that the Commission has not taken any decision about the timing for the revision of the EU legislation on firearms and its possible topics. So the news about a possible consideration of the semi-automatic weapons does not seem to be correct. The Commission will assess in due time any aspect of a possible revision of the EU legislation taking into account the position of all stakeholders.
Kind Regards

Fabio Marini
Head of Task Force Firearms
DG HOME
European Commission"

This statement was given - clearly it is in contradiction with facts. Also, we have been indicated (by our "inside man") that there was supposed to be a session where new restrictions were supposed to be introduced on 30th, but it was postponed. We are not aware if new has been set.

If you are citizen of one of the EU countries - please try to do similar intelligence gathering on your side, and try organize a proper political response to put a stop to this behind the scenes lobbying. Spread information, gather information and most importantly, contact your elected representative to voice your opinion in firm, but polite fashion. Out-lawing illegal weapons would be a good starting point. :)

For this proposal to go through, it must be supported by 16 of 28 EU members, with over 65% of EU population.

And note from Finland, which has 1320 kms of common land border with Russia - now is not the right time to disarm the Finnish reserve. Same applies to all other EU countries as well.
View Quote

Isn't this pointless in that Europe is disarmed anyway?
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 2:58:06 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bigtwinlvr:
So they ban guns, and Finland tells the EU to FO. Russia decides Europe is ripe for the taking and invades, and only the swiss and the Scandinavians put up a resistance. Meanwhile, the French race to the front lines to surrender. Then everyone wants us to go in and kick out the Russians, so that the Europeans can try to get us to ban our guns.
View Quote

If I have my way, We will not be coming.

Enough of that crap.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 3:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2015 3:03:07 PM EDT by 8balls]
As everyone knows this continent is full of "soviet legacy" hardware. Eastern Europe is filled with them and everyone and their mother has access to full auto AKs if they really wang start breaking the law. Also there are transit routes through which illegal full autos come from middle east. Then we had lots of wars in former yogoslavia which also left lots of guns floating around.

Cat is on the table and genie is out from the bottle. Milk has been spilt etc.

This is the real problem. The legislation is so strict that you can not really get legal guns.

Example: In finland you pretty much have to model citizen, have served in military (or good reason why not - army has tendency to weed out nut jobs), reason for needing the gun and pass a sanity check and interview.

Other option is to buy illegal AK form East Europe, toss it to your trunk and drive back home because there is no border control anymore.

Guess which is easier and quicker for person with a sketchy background?
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 3:08:34 PM EDT
Don't the French have an estimated 10-15 million illegally owned firearms?
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 3:12:36 PM EDT
France better learn to fight .

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 3:40:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By glockluv:
Why do they think this would help!?

Are you really trying to disarm your lawful citizens in the midst of a immigrant invasion
View Quote


Seems like there is an agenda against the EU citizens. It's quacking like a duck.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 3:42:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SD307:
t hats a great idea let 400,000 Muslims into your continent then ban guns. great idea. really well thought out, dynamite

can you even get semi autos outside of the US everyone else has FA or bolt action it seems.
View Quote


400k Are you referring to this weeks number?
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 3:45:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xerxes2695:
Bad times are brewing
View Quote


Western nation states are being systematically destroyed, it's not a coincidence or a cacophony of ignorant leaders.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 3:50:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2015 3:51:42 PM EDT by Rogue-Sasquatch]
Those EU autocrats need to be careful... European peasants do nasty things to their rulers when they get angry enough.








Even in France...



Link Posted: 11/10/2015 3:52:26 PM EDT
Typical

When I've just bought a place in Spain right next to a fucking gun club and actually have a chance of owning my own semi auto.( if they are ever in a and nit sleeping all day lasy fucks)


Fuck France
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 3:58:04 PM EDT
Authoritative Socialists are going to go Statist when they see a chance.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 4:03:11 PM EDT
Just ban socialists (or democrats here) and problem solved.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 4:07:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Alex_F:
Yeah, ok, because .ter won't just get them from ME countries smuggled in to the EU.

It's apparently easier to convert "deactivated" weapons right now, banning them will not stop .ter from being armed.

Feel good nonsense that disarms the rest of Europe vs the bad guys.
View Quote

Nope. Contraband would never travel by boat from North Africa to the continent. Similarly, the glut of combloc weapons present in the east has vanished and couldn't possibly travel west. I'd say this legislation is pretty much airtight.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 4:07:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 4:14:37 PM EDT
Just ban socialists (or democrats here) and problem solved.
View Quote


The conservatives in Europe are just as antigun as the socialists. In Greece, the only ones calling for looser gun laws are the Nazis -- as long as you are an ethnic Greek and not a Jew, a Muslim, or a Communist.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 4:24:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2015 4:28:21 PM EDT by 3rdpig]
OMG, bad guys have full and semi auto weapons, so let's take all the semi autos away from the good guys, that will fix the problem!

Same liberal BS goes on here too. It's all a political agenda powered by those who have no critical thinking skills, so use emotion instead.

Link Posted: 11/10/2015 4:26:48 PM EDT
FPNI.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 4:39:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
I know the rest ( Mussolini , Quisling , Ludwig and Lavar)


but who is that in the second color picture

Link Posted: 11/10/2015 4:55:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2015 4:55:47 PM EDT by Rogue-Sasquatch]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
I know the rest ( Mussolini , Quisling , Ludwig and Lavar)


but who is that in the second color picture

View Quote


Ceausescu, communist dictator of Romania. And his shitbag wife.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 4:57:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:


Ceausescu, communist dictator of Romania. And his shitbag wife.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
I know the rest ( Mussolini , Quisling , Ludwig and Lavar)


but who is that in the second color picture



Ceausescu, communist dictator of Romania. And his shitbag wife.

Yep.

Good shoot for sure.
Link Posted: 11/15/2015 10:47:26 AM EDT
So their response is to ban weapons but continue to allow millions of men from Muslim countries to immigrate.


Brilliant.


Link Posted: 11/15/2015 10:49:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2015 10:51:19 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/15/2015 11:00:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2015 11:16:11 AM EDT
wow

I hope at some point the population wakes up.
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