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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/14/2001 12:33:54 PM EDT
Big Fucking deal... what are they going to do? throw rocks? I can hear them now.... we will chase you down with our Camels and let them spit on you...
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 12:35:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 12:40:11 PM EDT
Yeah, and while your at it, don't forget that they managed to kill 15,000 Russians during the course of that war. Anyone who thinks that subduing Afghanistan will be a walk in the park is an utter fool.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 12:49:58 PM EDT
Only the Mongolian's have defeated them. And that was by killing every living thing to do it....
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 12:50:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 12:58:59 PM EDT
HiramRanger, I grant you, without the stinger missiles, they would have been largely wiped out by Su-25s and gunships, but I thought most of their weaponry was captured from the Russians?
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 12:59:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: They killed the Russians with the weapons we provided. We haven't provided any weapons to them in a very long time. Apples and oranges.
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Bullshit. They started out with obsolete military weapons and used them to capture more modern Soviet weaponry which they in turn used against the Russians. The only weapons of any real significance that we provided them were the Stinger missiles, and even then only after Soviet air power began dramatically shifting the balance of the war. You'll be hard pressed to back up your statement provide much footage of Mujhidan(sp?) rebels armed with M16s or other weaponry of US origin. Or maybe I simply missed that portion of the 6 o'clock news depicting the M1 Abrams tanks and F15 fighter jets we provided them. Don't delude yourself into thinking that this will be easy.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 1:01:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2001 1:02:51 PM EDT by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By Boomer: Yeah, and while your at it, don't forget that they managed to kill 15,000 Russians during the course of that war. Anyone who thinks that subduing Afghanistan will be a walk in the park is an utter fool.
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I think we all realize we'll spend the first few days or weeks of any campaign against them bombing the hell out of them to soften them and their defenses. How advanced are their SAM's and anti-aircraft batteries? God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 1:04:29 PM EDT
Unless the Russians were a bunch of pussies, (and I dont think they were)-it's not gonna be a walk in the park.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 1:11:20 PM EDT
Okay, what are we going to bomb, every elusive camel jockey in the country? Don't you think the Russians already tried this? This is NOT going to be a conventional war where we attack typical fixed defenses. And once again, with the exception of the Stinger missiles, the Afghans made the Russians lives a living hell by using their own weapons against them. Note that I did not say they defeated the Russians, as I think the Russians would have ultimately prevailed had they continued the war, but public opinion in the home country was increasingly turning against the war, much like what precipitated our own withdrawal from Vietnam.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 1:17:09 PM EDT
They defeated the British and Soviet Empires, both at the height of their powers. It would be a mistake to put people on the ground there. But bombs and missiles on the ground, that is a great idea!!
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 1:38:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2001 1:37:31 PM EDT by ECS]
Taliban Govt's getting ready alright...getting ready to DIE.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 1:42:39 PM EDT
I think it's good the taliban are getting ready. Every man should have a chance to make peace with his maker before he dies. The taliban aren't in the same situation they were in in past wars. This time they are the minority in charge of the government. The taliban only has control of the cities of afghanistan. There are many other tribes that are waiting in the hills to take the taliban out. Remember the rocket attack? If we were to work with one or more of those tribes and provide them with massive air support I don't think the taliban would last very long at all. Just my $0.02 Larry
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 1:48:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2001 1:53:43 PM EDT by doorgunner84]
Giving the enemy a chance to die for their country [img]http://www.af.mil/photos/images/bombers_b52_0008.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 1:52:49 PM EDT
How about a Mushroom Cloud over Kabul. And 1 over Baghdad. Come on guys name at least 2 more to equate to the 4 planes hijacked. They want to play hard ball, batter up.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:03:51 PM EDT
What everyone is failing to realize is that warfare in mountainous terrain is about the least desirable type of geography to be trying to locate your enemy in and to be trying to fight in. We have been trying to keep tabs on Osonofabitch ladins location for the past ten years. It is not as easy as you may think. For all you armchair warriors out there, technology and firepower can not magically resolve every problem, it has limitations also. Russia chased the Afghanistans asses for the prior 10 years all through the 1980's. We will do nothing but waste many dollars and possibly soldiers lives chasing his ass all over Afghanistan. If Osonofabitch is our man we need our intelligence to blend assasins in to Afghanistan to take him out. I would like to see the U.S. work with Russian intelligence and the Israelis to expediate his termination.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:16:10 PM EDT
So, Osama wants to run.... Fine He'll just die tired [img]http://www.snipercountry.com/photogallery/GhillieHump.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:16:33 PM EDT
I might be an armchair warrior, but I don't think it will be as bleak as the Russians experienced. The Russians were trying to subjugate the Afghanis. The soviet military at the time wasn't very well coordinated. They were a conscript army, had problems with alcohol and drugs. They lacked effective reconnaissance capabilities. They didn't have much of a mission. With all of that they still managed to eliminate an awful lot of the Afghanistan population. We don't have those problems, we have a mission, we have better troops that have the will to complete their job. We have much better means of locating where they are, utilizing spy drones, planes and satellites. The Afghanis used the night to make their attacks. We will own the night. I know it isn't going to be easy and a lot of our troops may be killed, but the Afghanis really don't have it as easy as they did last time.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:24:05 PM EDT
I agree with Boomer & Greaper that the Afghans shouldn't be underestimated. They outlasted the British and the Russians. Other thing is, unless we want to slaughter everyone in Afghanistan, we run the risk of screwing ourselves into a long-term engagement, which might escalate into a regional conflict. Thing is, rather than direct involvement, we should support the anti-Taliban forces that control the last 5% of the country. I don't think that the Taliban can be all that popular, considering that they rule with force. While I think the Afghans are tough, I also think that if we go after the Taliban, they will look like they had been worked over with a rake. We would bloody massacre them. I don't think North Vietnam would have held out if we fought no holds barred and NVA hadn't had the Soviets and China helping. Iraq had a combat-tested large army, and look what happened to them. Bring it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:31:21 PM EDT
Iraq had an army that was used to repel human wave assualts by Iran, and Iran didn't have the right kind of numbers for that strategy. Vietnam, I think the key to that was the restraint and the President interfering in stategic palnining. We've learned from the past, not only ours but other countries wars. This may be different than any other conflict. The goal isn't to gain territory or defeat a military force. The goal will be to kill. That can be done on a large scale with airplanes, that are several miles up, and missiles. Tough to kill US forces when you never see them, you just hear the explosions they caused.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:35:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: They killed the Russians with the weapons we provided. We haven't provided any weapons to them in a very long time. Apples and oranges.
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He's baaaack
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:42:08 PM EDT
Sounds swell Oly, but I see a problem with your killing scenario-- We start plinking people in retaliation, and their kids will have even more of a reason to hate us. The Israelis are facing a somewhat similar problem right now. Unless we want to kill everyone, it boils down to this: 1) We severely punish the people resposible for these actions to set an example 2) We figure out a way to work with the middle east so that they are not continually enraged at us. This ain't gonna be easy, but we've done similar things before.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:42:37 PM EDT
The difference between us and the Russians and English before them is that we won't be fighting all of Afghanistan, only the Taliban. While they are the most powerful group right now in Afghanistan, CMIIW, there a several other groups vying for predominance. All we have to do is get one or more of those groups to support us and BLAMMO!! Taliban gets smoked! Add to that the fact that NO Country has come out in their support and you have a great recipe for their disaster. Remember, wars are won largely by REMFs providing prodigious supplies.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:48:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ustulina: Sounds swell Oly,
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now your talking.....
but I see a problem with your killing scenario-- We start plinking people in retaliation, and their kids will have even more of a reason to hate us.
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I came up with a plan, OK it may not be perfect
The Israelis are facing a somewhat similar problem right now. Unless we want to kill everyone, it boils down to this: 1) We severely punish the people resposible for these actions to set an example
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There are reports that Bin Laden was the C-in-C of the Taliban armed forces. If that is true, isn't this war?? If it's true, that means the Taliban goverment is involved.
2) We figure out a way to work with the middle east so that they are not continually enraged at us.
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I'm thinking that is impossible. There are cultural and religous difference that are too signiigant.
This ain't gonna be easy, but we've done similar things before.
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Not sure we have, your asking us to make people that are pre-disposed to hate us, and fell justified in hating us to be somehow convinced we'ere ok..................
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:49:37 PM EDT
Here's what I see happening. We're going to shell these people and shell them hard. them we're going to move in with SpecOps teams and take out leaders, cells, and anyone else linked to terrorism. Believe me, this will not be a slug fest like we've seen in the past. Civilians and military members without a "need to know" will in fact not know of much that is going on in this war. I'd guess and say that 90% of this war will be SpecOP related.
Link Posted: 9/14/2001 2:57:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By satcong: Unless the Russians were a bunch of pussies, (and I dont think they were)-it's not gonna be a walk in the park.
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Very good point satcong! We will be victorious but we will pay a price. So be it!
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