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Posted: 5/3/2003 5:00:28 PM EDT
My father and I believe that the fact that we purchase so many foreign cars here in the US that it is destroying our economy. I here people comment that a lot of these "foreign" cars (Japanese) are built here and employ a lot of our people so that it really spurs are our growth somewhat. I say the number of foreign owned factories in the US is miniscule compared to the actual number of models that are imported and sold here, So that really the foreign owned factories are just a "token"  placed here by the Japanese and/or others  to say they are helping us out by giving us jobs so please return the favor by buying Japanese.  I think that the automobile industry is a major player in our economy and that we will eventually suffer the consequences of greatly reduced demand for our product plus a huge loss to our work force.  

*Does it really make that much difference if we buy Japanese?

*And what percentage of "their" cars are really built here compared to what they build overseas?
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 5:04:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 5:09:24 PM EDT

It is laudable to try and support the home economy first.  And to employ Americans first.

But, in truth, buying an inferior product will not work.  Look at cars in the early 70s.,  They were crap compared to the jap cars.  Same with the Euro cars.  Crap.  The japanese forced the US and Euro companies to pay attention and compete.

So, in todays market, you can buy from anywhere and get a good product.  I say, buy American if it fits your needs.

However, if the US companies again fall behind I will in  an instant buy foreign.  It is MY money and they need to be competitive.

Lastly, as mentioned above, you can look on the sticker to see where the car was made.  You might be surprised at what you see there.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 7:05:36 PM EDT
*Does it really make that much difference if we buy Japanese?
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Where do you think the profit goes??? Not to the US.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 7:23:14 PM EDT
how come your definition of foreign cars pertains only to Japanese cars? what about BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, Ferrari, and the lesser euro-car makers?  when the US automakers kept making crap (and they still do with some of their other models) would you rather buy their cars or a quality foreign car for a few thousand dollars more?
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 7:25:11 PM EDT

Where do you think the profit goes??? Not to the US.
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This is what I mean, "does it really matter", if so, how much?
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 8:15:08 PM EDT
F#$K Foreign Cars!!!
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 8:17:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 8:22:26 PM EDT
I recently bought an '03 Mitsubishi Galant.  It was built at Mitsubishi's plant in Bloomington, less than 2 hours from me.  I've driven past that plant on road trips before, and it's huge.  With the job market in non-Chicagoland IL having been in the toilet for a very long time, I don't have a problem buying a car that came from that plant.  In fact, I think Mitsubishi builds some Avengers and Sebrings at that factory under contract from Chrysler.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 8:30:06 PM EDT
I work for an automotive safety manufacturer and we are the largest of them all.  I believe we have around 35% of the piece of the pie in safety devices.  That would include airbags, seatbelts and such.  Now I don't work in shipping,  but I have worked around the department for 10 years.  IIRC,  Toyota is the only maker we ship overseas to,  everything else we ship goes either to plants in the USA or Canada.  I know Canada has alot of Chrysler plants.  I agree the profits don't always stay in the USA,  but the jobs are here.  At least for the moment.  I keep seeing companys move production south of the border.  That's where the new VW Bug is built.  And I have heard that Chevy has engines built there.  My Freightliner was one of the first out of the new plant they moved down there.  And it showed!  Corporate forgot to send them torque wrenches.  We had to go through the entire truck and torque every nut and bolt,  AND have the speedometer and tach calibrated.

I don't know any answers,  just thought I would drop in my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 9:00:29 PM EDT
That is bullshit about Jap quality in the early 70's. It was until the late 70s where Jap quality was good. It was the 74 oil embargo by OPEC that switch buyers to Jap, not quality. Quality came later.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 9:25:16 PM EDT
Never had a foreign made car. Drive a Pontiac now and it's the best car I've ever had.

That said, most of the trouble domestic automakers are having they have brought on themselves.

Except for my time in Uncle Sam's Camping Club, I've made my career in the automotive industry so I know whereof I speak.

Back in the 70's Japan inc. invested heavily in quality management and continuous improvement programs. They started producing cars that didn't break down.

It took Detroit ten years to catch on to what was happening and another ten to catch up.

It's three decades later and I still have to contend with 'engineers' who can't do the math, managers who don't understand the basics of modern production / quality management and production line workers who think the union can force the company to give them anything they want for as long as they want it.

If we don't pull our heads out and get serious the stream of work moving to Mexico will only get worse. Even the Mexicans are in trouble. They're losing work to the Chinese.

We can dig in our heels and refuse to buy foreign made (I do) but that won't help if we can't compete. We can't buy American if all the American producers are run into the ground by a lack of commitment on the part of management and labor.

It's really gonna piss me off if I have to choose between moving to China/Mexico or going to work at Taco Bell.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 9:38:00 PM EDT
Some people buy cars for a particular reason IE I bought a Toyota Tacoma when I made E5 and thought I was heading back to Panama for a few more years.  I had seen the troubles that folks with US brand vehicles had went thru to get repair parts and such and didnt want to go thru that hassle.  That PCS didnt happen, but here almost 8 years later Im still driving it. Call me a bad American if you want, but if your damming people on first sight, with the type of car they drive as the factor, well I probably wouldnt want to spend time with you anyway.

Link Posted: 5/3/2003 10:24:30 PM EDT
I am racist when it comes to buying American Products.
But I have to tell everyone something and I would give anything if I had the Magazine I would scan it and post this info.
I have been in the Union Construction for 15 years in July. All the members receive union magazines in the mail to kindly keep all the members up to date on what is going on with work etc.
In 1998 Toyota built a new plant in Indiana I was there for two years and the Local Union Members brought their Magazines into work to show me an article.

[b] The number one most American Made Car is the Toyota Camry, Avalon, and Sienna Mini Van. Since the Solara has moved to Ky to be built at Georgetown it is also added to the list[/b]

These vehicles have 58% of the vehicle and parts are made in the state of Kentucky solely, total of 88% counting KY specs are made in the United States alone. 5% is from Japan, 5% is from Mexico, and 2% from the Philippines.

I own Fords and they cannot even come close to them percentages, makes a person wonder.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 10:41:53 PM EDT
What is "American?"  

Consumer products manufacture is increasingly becoming a global affair, especially the automotive industry.  Ford and GM have substantial holdings outside this nation, and much of their products are built on an international scale.  Our automotive companies are doing quite well, sadly our domestic "workers," plant managers, and government continue to royally screw the pooch.  EPA and OSHA restrictions are becoming ridiculously expensive, and the unions' constant demands for more money, benefits, and job safety combined with management that seems to think its MBAs from some pansy-ass ivy-league makes it hot shit are what are driving manufacturing jobs out of this nation.  Union members need to realize just how valueless they really are when some Chinese kid who can be trained to do the same thing they do in 4 hours will work for $1 a day and get real about their expectations, management needs to get real and realize that proper plant supervision and quality control saves tons o' cash and increases the all important profit margin, and government just needs to gets its dumb ass the fuck out of business.

I buy whatever suits my needs.  Currently I drive a Ford.  I'm not opposed to buying "foreign" if the price is right and the quality is high.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 10:43:08 PM EDT
I wont buy inferior products I dont care where they come from. When An US automaker builds a vehicle that is reliable and meets my needs Ill buy one. Untill then Ill buy Toyota/Nissan. I dont care if it costs more or if parts cost more. I want somthing reliable and the Japanese do that. For some reason its that way With alot of jap stuff.
I Also fully support Kubota which makes equipment the Americans should be making. While JD/NH/IH are making thier equipment full of plastic to cut costs Kubota is making thiers Better. Ive seen it its true
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 10:45:28 PM EDT
Foreign vs. American...tell me the difference between the Pontiac Vibe and the Toyota Matrix?

Or how about the Ford Ranger and the Mazda B2300?

I'm sure there are more crossover brand cars and trucks...
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 11:18:22 PM EDT
It's not just the auto industry, it's had to find all American products anymore.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 11:22:14 PM EDT
Come to think of it, I'd rather support Japan than California.
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LOL [lol]
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 11:41:53 PM EDT
I recently (Feb) traded in my BMW for a 2000 GMC Sonoma (Built in US) Cannot get much closer to an American car than that.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:08:05 AM EDT
Support American families - Buy American!

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My "American" Firebird was built in Canada. My "American" Jeep was built in Mexico. My wifes "Japanese" Nissan was built BY FORD in America. My "Japanese" Nissan was built in Mexico.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:11:16 AM EDT
*Does it really make that much difference if we buy Japanese?
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Where do you think the profit goes??? Not to the US.
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And what are the Japanese going to do with it? They live on an island, they have limited resources. So what if it goes back to them, they are going to invest it elswhere. The Japanese are screwed. They exist at our leisure. As long as they continue to spend the dough here, and as long as Ford, GM, and Chrysler continue to export jobs, I say look for the vehicle that is built here.
Next question, is Chrysler a foreign manufacturer now?
What I want is to be able to drive a US built foreign make into a UAW facility and have it be left alone. Park a California built toyota matrix next to a mexico built ford focus, and see who gets the grief.
Profit, or American Jobs?
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:21:00 AM EDT
Support American families - Buy American!

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Define 'American'

Do you mean assembled in America by Americans?

Do you mean one who keeps it corporation within the borders?

Do you mean one where parts are manufactured in America?

Because quite frankly 1 and 3 are so intermingled now you will be just as likely to find a Toyota or Nissan or Honda, with more assembly and manufacturing done IN AMERICA as you will a Ford or GM.

If you think 2 identifies American think again, most of the the 'big 3 auto-makers' are multinational conglomerates which share their profit with an extensive intertwining web of corporations both foreign and domestic.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:33:20 AM EDT
This conversation is useless. Why limit it to just automobiles? The computer you are using right now, the Sony TV, and anything at Best Buy for that matter is mainly if not mostly foreign built. It's a global economy and the bottom line is you spend money on your needs. The Nike shoes your are wearing right now were made who knows where. The guns we like aren't from the US. One could go on forever listing foreign products we buy everyday.
I would much rather buy all-American, however, in today's marketplace it is not possible.

Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:46:41 AM EDT
Foreign companies building plants in the U.S. and U.S. companies building plants in foreign countries. WTF
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:09:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:13:10 AM EDT
FWIW I buy American cars, period. I don't give a flying f*** what you say about this piece or that piece being made here or there. Ford is an American Company, when I buy a Ford the money goes to the TOP (Which is American). Also Ford owns Jaguar and Mazda (plus others) so I *consider* them "American".
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:52:02 AM EDT
Come to think of it, I'd rather support Japan than California.
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LOL [lol]
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Don't laugh too hard, he's got a point!


I've noticed the same thing! It IS getting ahrder and harder to find American made products. I know a guy who (he's the most intelligent person he knows) thinks it's just fine sine we're "not a product" based economy anymore". I call BULLSHIT! America may have (and still be) elading hte world in the information age, but NOT EVERYONE is a techie..a whole lot of people still rely on working at the local factory or mill. It is my firm belief that NAFTA has fucked most every little rinkydink town that relied on such a factory. We now have the same products made cehaper by Mexicans with no standard of living and unemployed Americans. What a great deal huh?

I make it a priority to buy products that are Made in the U.S.A., to the point that I sometimes buy things that I don't need at the moment to show my support.

EDIT: Aimless, Ford has a long standing relationship with Canada.."289/302/351 Windsor" "4.6L Windsor" Hell the window crank handles in my 69 Mustang were made in Canada. I still consider it to be an American car.
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