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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/11/2005 8:25:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 8:26:43 AM EDT by metroplex]


Sigh... We had the local dealership repaint the hood on the 2003 E-250 a few months ago because it started delaminating. Huge SHEETS of paint just peeled right off.

Just the other day I decided to wax the van and noticed these weird "cuts" on the rear quarter panel area of the van. Turns out the "crows feet" defect appeared on this panel, and there's another part of the paint with a slight "cut". But it's not a scratch since you can't see any paint being removed.

There's 6 months left on the warranty and hopefully i can get them to repaint the entire van (doubtful). If not, how do I go about getting the lemon law to work for me?

If they repaint it this time, that's 2 paint defect related repairs. I need two more paint related repairs before I can enact the lemon law? Does it have to be under warranty or can it be out of warranty?

What are my options?


BTW
if you have a 2002-2004 Ford with black paint, please check to see if there's any weird bubbling, orange peeling, crows' feet, or delamination. Lots of 2003-2004 Marauder and Crown Vic owners have experienced crappy black paint jobs from the factory. Ford must have gone to a cheaper paint supplier.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:28:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:30:13 AM EDT
The crows feet you posted appears to be a nick in the glass, or soemthing. Nice tree. WTF?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:30:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 8:31:09 AM EDT by Sniper_Wolfe]

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Unless I'm seeing that wrong, you posted a picture of a tree and not a bad paint job.



Reflection.

Waxed, remember?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:30:57 AM EDT
If you find a problem before the warrenty period is up, have the dealer document it, get copies and keep all the info. As long as the defect is found within that period you should be able to make them pay even if the warrenty period is up. They might bitch and moan but they will usually pay. Got my cousin a new engine from ford after the head gasket went on the POS v-6 even tho they only said they would out to 100 K. He had 115,000 but they still coughed up after first saying no. Also do some research and see if there are any class action suits concerning the defect. Just them knowing you have checked will help. And be POLITE at all costs, tho firm.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:32:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:32:40 AM EDT
They already repainted the hood for paint related defect (delamination). And yes, that's the reflection of the paint (black clearcoat). I did my best to get the defect into the picture.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:33:00 AM EDT
Worked at a ford dealeship(bodyshop). Dont know all the details, but it seems like the paintjob is to thick.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:33:37 AM EDT
FYI: Delamination can happen from impacting hail. Once it is delaminated, all it takes is a chip and then it starts peeling off when wind or water pressure hits it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:35:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 8:36:18 AM EDT by ARDOC]
I believe you need to have the vehicle in 3 times for the same defect for the Lemon laws to take effect. I would carefully keep all the documents and I would keep taking the van in. Good luck. You havent seen BMW. Its waterbased due to the fucking Greenpeace types and it sucks. Nothing like shitty paint on a $50000 car.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:51:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 8:55:22 AM EDT by DaddyDett]


Maybe I can help you re-photo that, to assist in getting your complaint/claim across.
Something I learned in Studio Lighting class.
The angle of incidence of light is equal to the angle of reflectance.
In American that means the reflection of the trees can be eliminated by moving the camera so that the light bouncing off the tree is at the wrong angle to be gathered by the lens. Likely just lowering the angle of attack, so to speak, will do the trick. You could also use a white piece of poster board to reflect sunlight across, and then experiment with camera angle.
It takes a ton of light to image textural differences in black objects/surfaces.


DaddyDett
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:55:40 AM EDT
Fuck the paint, does Ford make ANY cars that don't explode and burn the occupants ?

re: recent recalls, burning police cars and not to mention the Pinto.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:19:55 AM EDT
I work as a outside contractor at the very plant where that paint was applied. Those guys do a good job but once in a while the ovens go out of spec and other things screw up all the time.
They try to catch the defective ones but sometimes stuff slips through..
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:28:20 AM EDT
Ford paint sucks shit.
I had a silver 85 Ford Ranger. Within 3 years the paint was peeling off in big sheets.
I had to go to three different Ford dealers before one of them would admit that there was a recall on the silver paint for 83-87Ford vehicles.
It was good for 5 years.
I passed on the crappy dealership "repaint" offer.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:34:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
I believe you need to have the vehicle in 3 times for the same defect for the Lemon laws to take effect. I would carefully keep all the documents and I would keep taking the van in. Good luck. You havent seen BMW. Its waterbased due to the fucking Greenpeace types and it sucks. Nothing like shitty paint on a $50000 car.



Most of your factory paints now are waterborn (not based). I work in the GM paintshop paintshop painting the new Pontiac G6. The waterborn paints are just the basecoat and not the clear coat. The clear coat is still a solvent born paint, and contains a lot of nasty chemicals (iso-cyanate for one. It also gives off formaldehyde whan it cures.) Greenpeace would not be happy.

Anyways, I would be curious to know how many layers of paint the van has on it. It is commonplace in the auto industry to have a car painted 2 even three times (yes even Toyota does this) They are allowed to be painted until the thickness reaches a certain point. After that, the cars are scrapped. It is possible that your van may have been on the threshold or maybe even above. I would get a paint thickness gauge and see how thick it is. If it is over 13 mils on the sides, then it has been painted too much. Talk to a lemon law layer and see what they can do for you.

Hope this helps,

Kris
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:37:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Ford paint sucks shit.
I had a silver 85 Ford Ranger. Within 3 years the paint was peeling off in big sheets.
I had to go to three different Ford dealers before one of them would admit that there was a recall on the silver paint for 83-87Ford vehicles.
It was good for 5 years.
I passed on the crappy dealership "repaint" offer.



Just because your 1985 Ranger paint sucks, doesn't mean all of Ford's paint sucks. That is like saying all AR-15's suck because of problems the early ones had. They all had issues with thier paint in the 80's. They were all switching to the new (at the time) Base coat / clear coat system and hadn't worked the bugs out yet.

Kris
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:51:07 AM EDT
I think the Defect is in the TREE
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:55:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Ford paint sucks shit.
I had a silver 85 Ford Ranger. ...




Quite possibly the best arfcom argument Ive seen. Are you college professor or something? Lawyer?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:05:06 AM EDT
Does anyone else see the little girl from "the Ring" next to the cut?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:10:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C5TT:
Does anyone else see the little girl from "the Ring" next to the cut?



OMFG I see her. wtf, over???
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:51:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:39:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
www.redpulsar.us/~coldfusion/CVN/paint_defect.jpg

Sigh... We had the local dealership repaint the hood on the 2003 E-250 a few months ago because it started delaminating. Huge SHEETS of paint just peeled right off.

Just the other day I decided to wax the van and noticed these weird "cuts" on the rear quarter panel area of the van. Turns out the "crows feet" defect appeared on this panel, and there's another part of the paint with a slight "cut". But it's not a scratch since you can't see any paint being removed.

There's 6 months left on the warranty and hopefully i can get them to repaint the entire van (doubtful). If not, how do I go about getting the lemon law to work for me?

If they repaint it this time, that's 2 paint defect related repairs. I need two more paint related repairs before I can enact the lemon law? Does it have to be under warranty or can it be out of warranty?

What are my options?


BTW
if you have a 2002-2004 Ford with black paint, please check to see if there's any weird bubbling, orange peeling, crows' feet, or delamination. Lots of 2003-2004 Marauder and Crown Vic owners have experienced crappy black paint jobs from the factory. Ford must have gone to a cheaper paint supplier.



IMO, Ford just GENERALLY sucks (But I DO love my Explorer) but the paint's is a serious POS. It's not "black", but rather a REALLY dark blue (with interesting tiny flecks of purple, maroon, black and something metalic in it).

So great in THEORY, sucks in PRACTICE. It's a 91', so .... not exactly a "new" development (the sucky paint). My guess, they don't give a shit.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:48:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C5TT:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/SD6clx/paint_defect.jpg


does that mean I'm gonna die
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:50:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 12:55:01 PM EDT by DOW]
My '02 Exploder XLT was cracking/starring on the hood (black paint) just before I traded that bitch in. This was one of many issues I had with that POS. I'll never buy another Ford, ever. This is my second time getting assfucked by Ford. No more.

Yes, I have a problem with Ford
My Ford Exploder rant
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:53:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 12:54:06 PM EDT by metroplex]
Under sunlight the 03 E-250's "ebony black CC" looks like a brownish/dark grey. that doesn't shine.

My 2000 Vic's "deep wedgewood blue CC" looks purple under intense light, black at night, and dark blue in "normal" lighting. IMHO the Crown Vic quality was very good even though they cheaped out on the interior parts (black plastic stuff instead of chromed steel). Our family has bought only Fords for the past 25+ years. We bought the E-250 because we liked fords... only to find ourselves screwed over w/ the paint.

My next vehicle will be used and powered by a diesel engine, and not a Ford or GM.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:57:25 PM EDT
Every manufacturer has had paint issues at one time or another-it's not limited to Ford.

Even seen a Chevy truck without any paint on the hood or the roof? There are plenty of them around here. Dodge isn't any better.

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:00:08 PM EDT
Oh, before I forget. In before the involuntary thread move (to the car forum).
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:03:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
Every manufacturer has had paint issues at one time or another-it's not limited to Ford.

Even seen a Chevy truck without any paint on the hood or the roof? There are plenty of them around here. Dodge isn't any better.




Yes but they're all old clunkers. We're talking about the early part of the 21st century. Paint delamination was an issue in the 80s and 90s because of the switch from lead based paint. Dodge, Ford, and GM had severe issues with delamination and there is a class action lawsuit for THOSE vehicles. Now we're talking about the latest issues with paint defects that shouldn't even be an issue with advanced paint technology.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:05:12 PM EDT
Even the premium cars have problems. One BMW tried to sell me a car that was new but was repainted. I could tell because there was a slight difference in the metallic paint shading. It was obvious in some angles. The salesman of course denied it then said he would look it up. Then he came back and said yes indeed it was repainted. I asked why and he said he would be back. Then he told me because the finish was damaged by some tree sap or something.

I walked away from that rip off dealer. I have had other dealers show me a disclosure of any work done to that vehicle.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:30:49 PM EDT
The more i think about it, the more i think the next vehicle we buy will be used with a diesel engine. I can do mechanical repairs myself, but the paint requires a lot of prep. I can just find someone to apply the CARC finish to the outside and be done with it to get the tactical look.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:48:21 PM EDT
Update: Took it to Mike Dorian Ford today and the guy said the scratches next to the Crow's Foot was more of a problem

We told him that scratches are not a problem because they're scratches, you get them all the time. A paint defect where paint came peel off, is more of a problem.

After some more typical stealership sage advice, he set up an appointment date (next week) for eval/repaint.

He said "we chose the wrong color"... WTF, over? Since when was Black Clearcoat the WRONG color? Since Ford decided to nickel and dime its customers by using the cheapest shittiest quality black paint?????

He also said that I was asking for more problems by asking them to repaint it under warranty. WTF, over? Is he going to get someone to steal the van so that I don't go back to get it repainted again?

He mentioned that the standard procedure is to "buff the paint and repaint" for crow's feet.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 1:38:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 1:41:35 PM EDT by Kacer]
Hold their feet to the flame. Only way they will STOP BS like this is if they PAY more than they SAVE. PERIOD.

ETA: As for the

He said "we chose the wrong color"... WTF, over?
BS comment you should, if they state that again, ask "Why then didn't you inform me of the problems you're having WITH that color? Asshat!"


Originally Posted By metroplex:
Update: Took it to Mike Dorian Ford today and the guy said the scratches next to the Crow's Foot was more of a problem

We told him that scratches are not a problem because they're scratches, you get them all the time. A paint defect where paint came peel off, is more of a problem.

After some more typical stealership sage advice, he set up an appointment date (next week) for eval/repaint.

He said "we chose the wrong color"... WTF, over? Since when was Black Clearcoat the WRONG color? Since Ford decided to nickel and dime its customers by using the cheapest shittiest quality black paint?????

He also said that I was asking for more problems by asking them to repaint it under warranty. WTF, over? Is he going to get someone to steal the van so that I don't go back to get it repainted again?

He mentioned that the standard procedure is to "buff the paint and repaint" for crow's feet.

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 1:47:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kacer:
Hold their feet to the flame. Only way they will STOP BS like this is if they PAY more than they SAVE. PERIOD.

ETA: As for the

He said "we chose the wrong color"... WTF, over?
BS comment you should, if they state that again, ask "Why then didn't you inform me of the problems you're having WITH that color? Asshat!"



Damn right! Ford should just advertise "we don't recommend the sexy dark colors because our asshat paint suppliers and engineers cannot figure out how to keep clearcoat from cracking or the paint from delaminating. GM and Dodge are using 3733t paint hax! No Fair!"
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