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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/9/2005 3:27:40 PM EDT
My GOD! People wake up!

No martial law, ok?

The mayor has NO AUTHORITY to declare martial law.

The Governor does, under Federal statutes (but not under Louisiana state law). She has not.

The President does. He has not.


EVEN IF MARTIAL LAW WERE DECLARED, it does not suspend the Bill of Rights wholesale!
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:28:33 PM EDT
Nor does it override the Louisiana Constitution.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:31:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2005 3:31:22 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
ALL IRRELEVANT!!!



They are confiscating guns because THEY CAN!


What are you going to do about it? Whine and bitch, same as me.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:31:32 PM EDT
Just for your information, here is the letter I emailed to the NRA.


Dear Sir or ma'am;

I am writing regarding the unlawful confiscation of firearms in New Orleans. I would like to contrast your statement:

""Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA. Numerous media sources are reporting on an apparent campaign by New Orleans city authorities to confiscate lawfully-owned firearms from people in the city. Louisiana statute does grant the government, during a state of emergency, broad powers in regulating and controlling firearms.

However, we have seen not just with Hurricane Katrina, but other similar situations, that when police are unable to control the criminal element, people turn to the one freedom that protects all others-the Second Amendment.

While one can certainly understand the dire predicaments of all those affected by Hurricane Katrina, as we have learned throughout history, campaigns to disarm the lawful do nothing to disarm the criminal. And in truth, these restrictions make citizens less safe. Despite the valiant efforts of many law enforcement officers and rescue workers, too many of those left in the wake of Katrina are ultimately responsible for their own security and safety and that of their families and loved ones; especially when communication is virtually non-existent and police can't be quickly summoned to respond to calls for help. At these times, lawful gun ownership is paramount to personal safety.

Of course, the entire situation in New Orleans is constantly in flux. But rest assured NRA is monitoring this situation very closely and will address any activity by the government that unduly infringes upon the rights of lawful gun owners at the appropriate time. As we learn more, we will report to our members accordingly. In the interim, however, we join with all Americans in offering our thoughts, prayers, and assistance to the victims and survivors of this terrible natural disaster."

With the statement of Gun Owners of America:

""Simply outrageous!"

That was the reaction from Erich Pratt, Director of Communications for Gun Owners of America, after learning that the city of New Orleans had begun confiscating legally-owned firearms from New Orleans' residents.

"By what authority can the mayor order these confiscations?" Pratt said. "You can't legitimately suspend the God-given rights of American citizens who have committed no crimes.

"These confiscations will not make the people of New Orleans any safer. Privately owned firearms were the only thing which prevented good people from becoming victims in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, when few policemen were to be found anywhere in the city.

"There have been many stories of self-defense, where stranded survivors were able to use firearms to protect what little they had, against the criminal thugs who had been released from the prisons. To take away their firearms now is simply adding 'insult to injury.'

"Unfortunately, we have yet to learn the lessons from previous dark episodes in our recent history," Pratt said. "We need to remember those lessons, such as the riots of Los Angeles more than a decade ago."

For several days in 1992, Los Angeles was in complete turmoil as stores were looted and burned. Motorists were dragged from their cars and beaten. As in New Orleans, police in L.A. were very slow in responding to the crisis. Many Guardsmen, after being mobilized to the affected areas, sat by and watched the violence because their rifles were low on ammunition.

"But not everybody in Los Angeles suffered," Pratt said. "In some of the hot spots, Korean merchants were able to successfully protect their stores with semi-automatic firearms. In areas where armed citizens banded together for self-protection, their businesses were spared while others -- which were left unprotected -- burned to the ground."

Interestingly, press reports in the aftermath of the riots described how life-long gun control supporters were running to gun stores to buy an item they never thought they would need -- a gun. Tragically, they were surprised (and outraged!) to learn there was a 15-day waiting period upon firearms.

"Will we never learn?" Pratt said. "It is a fact that firearms save millions of lives every year. So if Mayor Ray Nagin really wanted to help the decent citizens of New Orleans, he would be issuing them firearms instead of taking them away. Nagin's actions will put people in further jeopardy -- and if one citizen dies in New Orleans because he was deprived of the ability to defend himself or his family, there will be blood on the Mayor's hands."

GOA is already looking to draft legislation at both the state and federal level to preclude authorities from imposing ANY firearms restrictions during emergency response activities. Please stay tuned for further updates."



Taking this into account, along with the lukewarm support of the NRA in the Silveira v. Lockyer case, the sunset of the AWB, and various bans still in existence; would you care to take a guess at where my money is going now? I have just completed making a $500 donation to the Gun Owners of America.

The time is past to "get tough" with the people who hate our liberties.

When will you?

Sincerely,

Epeescott

Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:31:49 PM EDT
I guess the newspapers did not get the memo. It said something like"Martial Law in NO" across the front page.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:32:51 PM EDT
I am not going to drive to Louisiana and find someone's home who wants defending and do what needs doing, correct.

Were I living there, and that happening to me - I believe the term is "molon labe".

Don't kid yourself - that's what it has come down to.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:33:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By elvisp:
I guess the newspapers did not get the memo. It said something like"Martial Law in NO" across the front page.



Uh huh......"The newspapers said........"


Riiiight.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:33:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
ALL IRRELEVANT!!!



They are confiscating guns because THEY CAN!


What are you going to do about it? Whine and bitch, same as me.



+ Arfcom

Hey, as long as it ain't my guns.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:38:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By epeescott:

Originally Posted By elvisp:
I guess the newspapers did not get the memo. It said something like"Martial Law in NO" across the front page.



Uh huh......"The newspapers said........"


Riiiight.


Right my ass.
www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL083105lawless.1242410b.html
www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050830-13071200-bc-us-katrina-la-2ndld.xml
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:38:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By elvisp:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
ALL IRRELEVANT!!!



They are confiscating guns because THEY CAN!


What are you going to do about it? Whine and bitch, same as me.



+ Arfcom

Hey, as long as it ain't my guns.




WTf?

Are we supposed to give up our lives for a problem happening 2000+ miles away?

Get real.

But does that mean I can't raise a stink about it?

Fuckin-A right I can.

And it also means that all bets are off when this shit comes to YOUR town.

Some of you guys just like to piss in the cornflakes no matter what anybody says. I, for one, AM doing something about it--buying more ammo, upping my survival supplies, training harder, and putting the word out to fellow patriots that we have passed over into unprecedented territory.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED, and all Amercians need to know it.

Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:40:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By elvisp:

Originally Posted By epeescott:

Originally Posted By elvisp:
I guess the newspapers did not get the memo. It said something like"Martial Law in NO" across the front page.



Uh huh......"The newspapers said........"


Riiiight.


Right my ass.
www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL083105lawless.1242410b.html
www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050830-13071200-bc-us-katrina-la-2ndld.xml



Your ass? I guess.

Those article writers have the same conceptual issue you do: Mr. Nagin, the Mayor of New Orleans, HAS NOT THE AUTHORITY TO DECLARE IT. He can say what he wants, it has no legal force.

Got it?
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:43:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By epeescott:

Originally Posted By elvisp:

Originally Posted By epeescott:

Originally Posted By elvisp:
I guess the newspapers did not get the memo. It said something like"Martial Law in NO" across the front page.



Uh huh......"The newspapers said........"


Riiiight.


Right my ass.
www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL083105lawless.1242410b.html
www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050830-13071200-bc-us-katrina-la-2ndld.xml



Your ass? I guess.

Those article writers have the same conceptual issue you do: Mr. Nagin, the Mayor of New Orleans, HAS NOT THE AUTHORITY TO DECLARE IT. He can say what he wants, it has no legal force.

Got it?


I did not claim a position. I just posted that it was stated in the Newspapers. GOT IT??
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:45:12 PM EDT
Chill out, elvisp.

I didn't post this to make you look like an idiot, it's not about you.

It is about public perception - many people think there is martial law.

I just wanted to clear it up for the people who thought it.

No need to turn up the hatred.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:51:27 PM EDT
A search turned up this article.

I realize the source, but the article seems factually valid. I also realize that what the article says and what is actually going on may not be the same.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2125584/nav/tap1/


What Is Martial Law?
And is New Orleans under it?
By Keelin McDonell
Posted Friday, Sept. 2, 2005, at 2:04 PM PT



Military presence? Yes. Martial law? No.

On Tuesday reports began circulating that New Orleans officials had put the flood-ravaged city under martial law. The attorney general's office of Louisiana quickly issued a denial. Confusion persisted, however, after White House press secretary Scott McClellan told a group of journalists on Wednesday that "martial law has been declared in Mississippi and Louisiana." Yesterday National Guard Lt. Gen H. Steven Blum sought to set the record straight, saying, "This is not, as it has been erroneously reported, martial law." What is martial law? And who can declare it?

Martial law occurs when the military assumes police powers because local authorities and courts aren't functioning. Although the president usually imposes martial law, federal regulation allows for a "local commander" to do so "on the spot, if the circumstances demand immediate action." Federal armed forces are expected to relinquish these powers as soon as the local government is once again operable. During martial law, the military may arrest and try civilians, seize private property, and institute curfews, among other emergency powers.

In practice, however, martial law has been all but barred since the late 19th century. During the Civil War, President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and set up military courts in several states in the South and Midwest. Many at the time felt that Lincoln had superseded his authority, and in 1878 Congress passed the Posse Comitatus Act, which forbids the military from performing civilian law enforcement without congressional approval.


Continue Article

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Posse Comitatus Act effectively limited the president's power to declare martial law, but it did not entirely end it. After the bombing of Pearl Harbor in 1941, the governor of Hawaii called for martial law. President Roosevelt approved the motion, and the islands remained under military authority until October of 1944.

Additionally, governors can still request that the president immediately dispatch federal troops to assist police during emergencies. This happened during two notable instances of rioting in recent history—at the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago and after the verdict was handed down in the Rodney King trial in Los Angeles in 1992. Neither instance constituted martial law (or violated Posse Comitatus) since federal troops were supporting and not supplanting local leaders.

During the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal, it was revealed that Oliver North had helped FEMA draft plans to overrule Posse Comitatus and impose martial rule if a major instance of civil unrest occurred. More recently, civil libertarians have worried that the military may become the de facto enforcer of law if the United States is attacked.

The Katrina relief effort includes military assistance, but it is not martial law. National Guard units are acting under the direction of governors, and federal troops are providing humanitarian relief. Neither of these violates Posse Comitatus. While martial law has not been imposed, a state of emergency has been declared in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida, signaling that some civil liberties, such as the right to congregate, may be limited because of extreme conditions.


Link Posted: 9/9/2005 3:53:52 PM EDT
My letter to the Editor. I've kind of upped the rhetoric with them as they're allowing a little too much liberal BS into their OP/Ed lately.

Subject: Confiscation of Firearms

I'm curious and at the same time outraged that Police in New Orleans are confiscating firearms. Is this a suspension of people's rights? By what authority? Are the Police doing the confiscating of these weapons then guaranteeing these people's personal safety? The answer, obviously is no. They didn't do it before the storm, during the storm and in the immediate aftermath. What then, is the over-riding reason for this assault on our Rights? What kind of precedent is it establishing?

If people want to voluntarily give up their firearms for the privilege of setting in some shelter that is one thing. Forcibly removing someone's means of self defense while at the same time trying to forcibly remove them from their property smacks of too little too late as well as punishment for surviving.

This is a tragedy at law. Don't forget what you're seeing, and don't forget it's being done "for your own good".



of course we'll give you your gun back before the next hurricane hits
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 6:06:47 PM EDT
Can you picture what will be,so limitless and free, Desperatly in need of some strangers hand in a desperate land. Lost in a roman wilderness of pain,and all the childeren are insane all the childeren are insane........ waiting for the summer rain yea.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 6:20:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By epeescott:
Just for your information, here is the letter I emailed to the NRA.


Dear Sir or ma'am;

I am writing regarding the unlawful confiscation of firearms in New Orleans. I would like to contrast your statement:

""Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA. Numerous media sources are reporting on an apparent campaign by New Orleans city authorities to confiscate lawfully-owned firearms from people in the city. Louisiana statute does grant the government, during a state of emergency, broad powers in regulating and controlling firearms.

However, we have seen not just with Hurricane Katrina, but other similar situations, that when police are unable to control the criminal element, people turn to the one freedom that protects all others-the Second Amendment.

While one can certainly understand the dire predicaments of all those affected by Hurricane Katrina, as we have learned throughout history, campaigns to disarm the lawful do nothing to disarm the criminal. And in truth, these restrictions make citizens less safe. Despite the valiant efforts of many law enforcement officers and rescue workers, too many of those left in the wake of Katrina are ultimately responsible for their own security and safety and that of their families and loved ones; especially when communication is virtually non-existent and police can't be quickly summoned to respond to calls for help. At these times, lawful gun ownership is paramount to personal safety.

Of course, the entire situation in New Orleans is constantly in flux. But rest assured NRA is monitoring this situation very closely and will address any activity by the government that unduly infringes upon the rights of lawful gun owners at the appropriate time. As we learn more, we will report to our members accordingly. In the interim, however, we join with all Americans in offering our thoughts, prayers, and assistance to the victims and survivors of this terrible natural disaster."

With the statement of Gun Owners of America:

""Simply outrageous!"

That was the reaction from Erich Pratt, Director of Communications for Gun Owners of America, after learning that the city of New Orleans had begun confiscating legally-owned firearms from New Orleans' residents.

"By what authority can the mayor order these confiscations?" Pratt said. "You can't legitimately suspend the God-given rights of American citizens who have committed no crimes.

"These confiscations will not make the people of New Orleans any safer. Privately owned firearms were the only thing which prevented good people from becoming victims in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, when few policemen were to be found anywhere in the city.

"There have been many stories of self-defense, where stranded survivors were able to use firearms to protect what little they had, against the criminal thugs who had been released from the prisons. To take away their firearms now is simply adding 'insult to injury.'

"Unfortunately, we have yet to learn the lessons from previous dark episodes in our recent history," Pratt said. "We need to remember those lessons, such as the riots of Los Angeles more than a decade ago."

For several days in 1992, Los Angeles was in complete turmoil as stores were looted and burned. Motorists were dragged from their cars and beaten. As in New Orleans, police in L.A. were very slow in responding to the crisis. Many Guardsmen, after being mobilized to the affected areas, sat by and watched the violence because their rifles were low on ammunition.

"But not everybody in Los Angeles suffered," Pratt said. "In some of the hot spots, Korean merchants were able to successfully protect their stores with semi-automatic firearms. In areas where armed citizens banded together for self-protection, their businesses were spared while others -- which were left unprotected -- burned to the ground."

Interestingly, press reports in the aftermath of the riots described how life-long gun control supporters were running to gun stores to buy an item they never thought they would need -- a gun. Tragically, they were surprised (and outraged!) to learn there was a 15-day waiting period upon firearms.

"Will we never learn?" Pratt said. "It is a fact that firearms save millions of lives every year. So if Mayor Ray Nagin really wanted to help the decent citizens of New Orleans, he would be issuing them firearms instead of taking them away. Nagin's actions will put people in further jeopardy -- and if one citizen dies in New Orleans because he was deprived of the ability to defend himself or his family, there will be blood on the Mayor's hands."

GOA is already looking to draft legislation at both the state and federal level to preclude authorities from imposing ANY firearms restrictions during emergency response activities. Please stay tuned for further updates."



Taking this into account, along with the lukewarm support of the NRA in the Silveira v. Lockyer case, the sunset of the AWB, and various bans still in existence; would you care to take a guess at where my money is going now? I have just completed making a $500 donation to the Gun Owners of America.

The time is past to "get tough" with the people who hate our liberties.

When will you?

Sincerely,

Epeescott






I am anxiously awaiting their response.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 6:24:25 PM EDT
There is martial law.

There is no declaration of martial law. No legal framework exists for it.

However, boots on the ground are, in this case, martial law.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 7:17:07 PM EDT
"There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend: Those with guns, and those who dig."

While it's true that martial law has not officially been declared, clearly someone took a look around and said "Whoa, that's a lot of mud..."
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