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Posted: 11/29/2014 10:12:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:14:27 PM EDT
For or against what? Allowing bankruptcy for individuals? Corporations?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:15:17 PM EDT
Way to many variables to make a general statement regarding bankruptcy laws.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:35:46 PM EDT
Chap 7? Chap 11? Personal? Need more info.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:41:32 PM EDT
Depends. I met a woman whose ex racked up the credit cards and left her with the bills. She declared bankruptcy but paid off all her creditors. As for those incurred by her ex, she shielded herself from them.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:41:32 PM EDT
I have heard of folks gaming the system... from what I have heard, it's better now than it used to be...
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:41:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 10:42:03 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:43:56 PM EDT
I think they were fine before the credit card companies and student loan companies bought the recent changes to the laws.



Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:45:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Probably way more people with credit card debt should be forced into chapter 13 repayment plans, even if only a nominal payment.

On the flip side, student loan exception to bankruptcy has become ridiculous. Do we really want to protect and encourage loaning $ 200k to an undergrad art major?
View Quote


So I should be able to take out $200k in loans, go to school for a decade, then discharge the debt in bankruptcy? Sweet, sign me up!

It's a symptom of the problem, which is the fedgov meddling in private finance and guaranteeing student loans.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:45:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:46:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Probably way more people with credit card debt should be forced into chapter 13 repayment plans, even if only a nominal payment.

On the flip side, student loan exception to bankruptcy has become ridiculous. Do we really want to protect and encourage loaning $ 200k to an undergrad art major?
View Quote


What, you want to take away my part time employment of holding a gun to the head of art majors while forcing them to sign for student loans?


Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:47:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:49:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 10:51:28 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:50:51 PM EDT
Fuck discharging student load debt. Choose wisely in your education if you must go in debt to earn a degree.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:52:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 10:53:25 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:52:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
You can discharge other guaranteed loans, like FHA and va mortgages, but the bank in those cases still looks closer at income and value of the home
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Probably way more people with credit card debt should be forced into chapter 13 repayment plans, even if only a nominal payment.

On the flip side, student loan exception to bankruptcy has become ridiculous. Do we really want to protect and encourage loaning $ 200k to an undergrad art major?


So I should be able to take out $200k in loans, go to school for a decade, then discharge the debt in bankruptcy? Sweet, sign me up!

It's a symptom of the problem, which is the fedgov meddling in private finance and guaranteeing student loans.
You can discharge other guaranteed loans, like FHA and va mortgages, but the bank in those cases still looks closer at income and value of the home


Right but those loans are secured by the property. Should schools strike you from their records if you default on your loans?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:52:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:53:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 10:56:14 PM EDT by WalkerTexasRanger]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
You can say that about not buying a house you can't afford.
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:
Fuck discharging student load debt. Choose wisely in your education if you must go in debt to earn a degree.
You can say that about not buying a house you can't afford.


There is value in the home, not the education.

ETA, I agree about buying house you cannot afford… Lender makes a questionable loan, borrower shits the bed, at least the lender gets the house. With an "education" not so much.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:54:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:55:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:57:57 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Probably way more people with credit card debt should be forced into chapter 13 repayment plans, even if only a nominal payment.

View Quote
On the flip side, student loan exception to bankruptcy has become ridiculous. Do we really want to protect and encourage loaning $ 200k to an undergrad art major?
Imagine if banks actually had to do real underwriting for student loans. Student loans should be treated no differently than any other type of unsecured loan.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:59:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
How often does a bank get more than pennies on the dollar after a foreclosure?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Probably way more people with credit card debt should be forced into chapter 13 repayment plans, even if only a nominal payment.

On the flip side, student loan exception to bankruptcy has become ridiculous. Do we really want to protect and encourage loaning $ 200k to an undergrad art major?


So I should be able to take out $200k in loans, go to school for a decade, then discharge the debt in bankruptcy? Sweet, sign me up!

It's a symptom of the problem, which is the fedgov meddling in private finance and guaranteeing student loans.
You can discharge other guaranteed loans, like FHA and va mortgages, but the bank in those cases still looks closer at income and value of the home


Right but those loans are secured by the property. Should schools strike you from their records if you default on your loans?
How often does a bank get more than pennies on the dollar after a foreclosure?


Plenty of friends have bought short sale or foreclosure properties, and still paid 70%+ of the full value of the home. Unless it's been thoroughly trashed it still retains value. A college degree has zero value to the lender.

It would be the largest completely unsecured loans made, and we could expect credit card interest rates.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:09:16 PM EDT
Student loans should be dischargable, and if they're not, the lifetime loan amount needs to be tied to the median annual earnings for the major and the graduation rate of the school getting the money.

Having a daughter that's college-aged, I've learned that school financial aid officers are probably the most predatory lender in existence. Some people will say "no one is holding a gun to their head," but I've seen in black-and-white a financial aid offer from a school that expressly said tuition to the school was free, packaged with the paperwork for a 20K loan, saying sign here for your free education. This is being put in front of 18yo's out on their own for the first time, and trust me, they're getting lied to and screwed.

I have a friend that was a professor for a for-profit university, and their financial aid people actually were cruising the bad areas of town, picking up homeless people that clearly were mentally ill, running them to see if they could get aid, and then signing them up and babysitting them, taking them from class to class, until the time limit for withdrawing was complete and the fees for the semester were locked in -- and then the aid people bailed out and the homeless people went back to whatever it was they were doing. That university is flat out stealing taxpayer money through guaranteed student loans, and if the loans were dischargable or the loan amounts were tied to graduation rate, that wouldn't happen. (Said friend had no idea this was how the university worked, and left the following semester.)

IMO bankruptcy laws need to be more lax because of how predatory the banks have gotten, and I'm a solid pay-your-debts conservative. When you see what's going on in person, you realize just how bad the banks are taking everyone for a ride.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:14:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 11:15:13 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:16:20 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By seek2:
Student loans should be dischargable, and if they're not, the lifetime loan amount needs to be tied to the median annual earnings for the major and the graduation rate of the school getting the money.

Having a daughter that's college-aged, I've learned that school financial aid officers are probably the most predatory lender in existence. Some people will say "no one is holding a gun to their head," but I've seen in black-and-white a financial aid offer from a school that expressly said tuition to the school was free, packaged with the paperwork for a 20K loan, saying sign here for your free education. This is being put in front of 18yo's out on their own for the first time, and trust me, they're getting lied to and screwed.

I have a friend that was a professor for a for-profit university, and their financial aid people actually were cruising the bad areas of town, picking up homeless people that clearly were mentally ill, running them to see if they could get aid, and then signing them up and babysitting them, taking them from class to class, until the time limit for withdrawing was complete and the fees for the semester were locked in -- and then the aid people bailed out and the homeless people went back to whatever it was they were doing. That university is flat out stealing taxpayer money through guaranteed student loans, and if the loans were dischargable or the loan amounts were tied to graduation rate, that wouldn't happen. (Said friend had no idea this was how the university worked, and left the following semester.)

IMO bankruptcy laws need to be more lax because of how predatory the banks have gotten, and I'm a solid pay-your-debts conservative. When you see what's going on in person, you realize just how bad the banks are taking everyone for a ride.
View Quote


Uh no. Stupid hurts. Read and understand the shit you sign or pay the consequences, being 18 is no excuse…
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 11:20:45 PM EDT by WalkerTexasRanger]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'd say 70% is high. Keep in mind that the bank paid lawyers, property managers, newspapers, court fees, land taxes, insurance to get that house back in most cases

Plus that is offset by houses that never sell, sell for little or sit around for years. I have clients who have never been foreclosed on and they have not paid in probably over ten years, maybe close to twenty in one case

Edit,obviously houses are better security than art degrees
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
You can discharge other guaranteed loans, like FHA and va mortgages, but the bank in those cases still looks closer at income and value of the home


Right but those loans are secured by the property. Should schools strike you from their records if you default on your loans?
How often does a bank get more than pennies on the dollar after a foreclosure?


Plenty of friends have bought short sale or foreclosure properties, and still paid 70%+ of the full value of the home. Unless it's been thoroughly trashed it still retains value. A college degree has zero value to the lender.

It would be the largest completely unsecured loans made, and we could expect credit card interest rates.
I'd say 70% is high. Keep in mind that the bank paid lawyers, property managers, newspapers, court fees, land taxes, insurance to get that house back in most cases

Plus that is offset by houses that never sell, sell for little or sit around for years. I have clients who have never been foreclosed on and they have not paid in probably over ten years, maybe close to twenty in one case

Edit,obviously houses are better security than art degrees


Maybe in NY but here in TX where the market is booming, 90%-95% of value is common on short sales or foreclosures.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:25:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By seek2:
Student loans should be dischargable, and if they're not, the lifetime loan amount needs to be tied to the median annual earnings for the major and the graduation rate of the school getting the money.

Having a daughter that's college-aged, I've learned that school financial aid officers are probably the most predatory lender in existence. Some people will say "no one is holding a gun to their head," but I've seen in black-and-white a financial aid offer from a school that expressly said tuition to the school was free, packaged with the paperwork for a 20K loan, saying sign here for your free education. This is being put in front of 18yo's out on their own for the first time, and trust me, they're getting lied to and screwed.

I have a friend that was a professor for a for-profit university, and their financial aid people actually were cruising the bad areas of town, picking up homeless people that clearly were mentally ill, running them to see if they could get aid, and then signing them up and babysitting them, taking them from class to class, until the time limit for withdrawing was complete and the fees for the semester were locked in -- and then the aid people bailed out and the homeless people went back to whatever it was they were doing. That university is flat out stealing taxpayer money through guaranteed student loans, and if the loans were dischargable or the loan amounts were tied to graduation rate, that wouldn't happen. (Said friend had no idea this was how the university worked, and left the following semester.)

IMO bankruptcy laws need to be more lax because of how predatory the banks have gotten, and I'm a solid pay-your-debts conservative. When you see what's going on in person, you realize just how bad the banks are taking everyone for a ride.
View Quote


People bitch because loans are too hard to get and you need to much down and people bitch because they are too easy to get.

So, which is it? Loans should be very hard to discharge in BK court, if they were not, people wouldn't give a damn what they borrowed for or how much they borrowed as they know they have a easy out to walk away.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:27:42 PM EDT
For. of course we don't need more prisons.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:27:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:28:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:35:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By seek2:
Student loans should be dischargable, and if they're not, the lifetime loan amount needs to be tied to the median annual earnings for the major and the graduation rate of the school getting the money.

Having a daughter that's college-aged, I've learned that school financial aid officers are probably the most predatory lender in existence. Some people will say "no one is holding a gun to their head," but I've seen in black-and-white a financial aid offer from a school that expressly said tuition to the school was free, packaged with the paperwork for a 20K loan, saying sign here for your free education. This is being put in front of 18yo's out on their own for the first time, and trust me, they're getting lied to and screwed.

I have a friend that was a professor for a for-profit university, and their financial aid people actually were cruising the bad areas of town, picking up homeless people that clearly were mentally ill, running them to see if they could get aid, and then signing them up and babysitting them, taking them from class to class, until the time limit for withdrawing was complete and the fees for the semester were locked in -- and then the aid people bailed out and the homeless people went back to whatever it was they were doing. That university is flat out stealing taxpayer money through guaranteed student loans, and if the loans were dischargable or the loan amounts were tied to graduation rate, that wouldn't happen. (Said friend had no idea this was how the university worked, and left the following semester.)

IMO bankruptcy laws need to be more lax because of how predatory the banks have gotten, and I'm a solid pay-your-debts conservative. When you see what's going on in person, you realize just how bad the banks are taking everyone for a ride.
View Quote


Army will pay back your student loans.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:38:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Meh, pretty hard to get thrown in jail for owing money, except child support and that's nondsichargeable
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
For. of course we don't need more prisons.
Meh, pretty hard to get thrown in jail for owing money, except child support and that's nondsichargeable


Well If Bankruptcy laws didn't exist wouldn't we need a debtors prison?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:56:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:57:06 PM EDT
against most laws in general. completely against bankruptcy laws.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:57:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 11:58:16 PM EDT by Phlather]
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Not necessarily, at least in ny you basically can't be thrown in jail for owing money, outside of family law stuff that bankruptcy doesn't help
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
For. of course we don't need more prisons.
Meh, pretty hard to get thrown in jail for owing money, except child support and that's nondsichargeable


Well If Bankruptcy laws didn't exist wouldn't we need a debtors prison?
Not necessarily, at least in ny you basically can't be thrown in jail for owing money, outside of family law stuff that bankruptcy doesn't help


unless you owe the IRS money.

Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:59:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 12:07:58 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By fxntime:


People bitch because loans are too hard to get and you need to much down and people bitch because they are too easy to get.

So, which is it? Loans should be very hard to discharge in BK court, if they were not, people wouldn't give a damn what they borrowed for or how much they borrowed as they know they have a easy out to walk away.
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Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By seek2:
Student loans should be dischargable, and if they're not, the lifetime loan amount needs to be tied to the median annual earnings for the major and the graduation rate of the school getting the money.

Having a daughter that's college-aged, I've learned that school financial aid officers are probably the most predatory lender in existence. Some people will say "no one is holding a gun to their head," but I've seen in black-and-white a financial aid offer from a school that expressly said tuition to the school was free, packaged with the paperwork for a 20K loan, saying sign here for your free education. This is being put in front of 18yo's out on their own for the first time, and trust me, they're getting lied to and screwed.

I have a friend that was a professor for a for-profit university, and their financial aid people actually were cruising the bad areas of town, picking up homeless people that clearly were mentally ill, running them to see if they could get aid, and then signing them up and babysitting them, taking them from class to class, until the time limit for withdrawing was complete and the fees for the semester were locked in -- and then the aid people bailed out and the homeless people went back to whatever it was they were doing. That university is flat out stealing taxpayer money through guaranteed student loans, and if the loans were dischargable or the loan amounts were tied to graduation rate, that wouldn't happen. (Said friend had no idea this was how the university worked, and left the following semester.)

IMO bankruptcy laws need to be more lax because of how predatory the banks have gotten, and I'm a solid pay-your-debts conservative. When you see what's going on in person, you realize just how bad the banks are taking everyone for a ride.


People bitch because loans are too hard to get and you need to much down and people bitch because they are too easy to get.

So, which is it? Loans should be very hard to discharge in BK court, if they were not, people wouldn't give a damn what they borrowed for or how much they borrowed as they know they have a easy out to walk away.


They're too easy because of government guarantees. Without the threat of discharge and with government guarantees, it's a no-lose scenario for the loan originators and the the schools receiving the money as tuition. Seriously, we have people getting 150K in loans that either have useless degrees or don't even graduate. It will be said "so, that's their problem," but it's not. The schools and the lenders are getting their money, and that money is coming from taxpayers, not the student that took out the insane loans. Until the lenders have actual value at risk, the system is going to be broken and taxpayers are stuck with the bill. Everyone in the transaction -- students, schools, and lenders -- needs to have value at risk for loans to be workable and fair.

Student loans were dischargable for decades until the government stepped in and interfered with the market. Not long after, we ended up with insane tuition inflation, debt slaves for life, and the government giving taxpayer money to banks yet again. I understand your point about them being hard to discharge so people give a damn, but how about making them dischargable to banks actually apply some real underwriting to a loan? They're happy to give loans to people who aren't even legally able to enter a contract now, and students with 100K+ in debt that they'll never repay, because they'll get their coin. A high school geek with a 4.0 GPA going for an engineering degree is likely going to get a loan, but do we really need to give another 20K to someone that's already 80K in debt and on their 8th year of college that's a C student in women's studies?

I'm totally mystified that people think a non-free-market loan program where non-payments are covered with taxpayer money and the banks and schools are incentivized to take advantage of students and inflate costs as much as possible is a good idea.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 12:28:49 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By seek2:


They're too easy because of government guarantees. Without the threat of discharge and with government guarantees, it's a no-lose scenario for the loan originators and the the schools receiving the money as tuition. Seriously, we have people getting 150K in loans that either have useless degrees or don't even graduate. It will be said "so, that's their problem," but it's not. The schools and the lenders are getting their money, and that money is coming from taxpayers, not the student that took out the insane loans. Until the lenders have actual value at risk, the system is going to be broken and taxpayers are stuck with the bill. Everyone in the transaction -- students, schools, and lenders -- needs to have value at risk for loans to be workable and fair.

Student loans were dischargable for decades until the government stepped in and interfered with the market. Not long after, we ended up with insane tuition inflation, debt slaves for life, and the government giving taxpayer money to banks yet again. I understand your point about them being hard to discharge so people give a damn, but how about making them dischargable to banks actually apply some real underwriting to a loan? They're happy to give loans to people who aren't even legally able to enter a contract now, and students with 100K+ in debt that they'll never repay, because they'll get their coin. A high school geek with a 4.0 GPA going for an engineering degree is likely going to get a loan, but do we really need to give another 20K to someone that's already 80K in debt and on their 8th year of college that's a C student in women's studies?

I'm totally mystified that people think a non-free-market loan program where non-payments are covered with taxpayer money and the banks and schools are incentivized to take advantage of students and inflate costs as much as possible is a good idea.
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Originally Posted By seek2:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By seek2:
Student loans should be dischargable, and if they're not, the lifetime loan amount needs to be tied to the median annual earnings for the major and the graduation rate of the school getting the money.

Having a daughter that's college-aged, I've learned that school financial aid officers are probably the most predatory lender in existence. Some people will say "no one is holding a gun to their head," but I've seen in black-and-white a financial aid offer from a school that expressly said tuition to the school was free, packaged with the paperwork for a 20K loan, saying sign here for your free education. This is being put in front of 18yo's out on their own for the first time, and trust me, they're getting lied to and screwed.

I have a friend that was a professor for a for-profit university, and their financial aid people actually were cruising the bad areas of town, picking up homeless people that clearly were mentally ill, running them to see if they could get aid, and then signing them up and babysitting them, taking them from class to class, until the time limit for withdrawing was complete and the fees for the semester were locked in -- and then the aid people bailed out and the homeless people went back to whatever it was they were doing. That university is flat out stealing taxpayer money through guaranteed student loans, and if the loans were dischargable or the loan amounts were tied to graduation rate, that wouldn't happen. (Said friend had no idea this was how the university worked, and left the following semester.)

IMO bankruptcy laws need to be more lax because of how predatory the banks have gotten, and I'm a solid pay-your-debts conservative. When you see what's going on in person, you realize just how bad the banks are taking everyone for a ride.


People bitch because loans are too hard to get and you need to much down and people bitch because they are too easy to get.

So, which is it? Loans should be very hard to discharge in BK court, if they were not, people wouldn't give a damn what they borrowed for or how much they borrowed as they know they have a easy out to walk away.


They're too easy because of government guarantees. Without the threat of discharge and with government guarantees, it's a no-lose scenario for the loan originators and the the schools receiving the money as tuition. Seriously, we have people getting 150K in loans that either have useless degrees or don't even graduate. It will be said "so, that's their problem," but it's not. The schools and the lenders are getting their money, and that money is coming from taxpayers, not the student that took out the insane loans. Until the lenders have actual value at risk, the system is going to be broken and taxpayers are stuck with the bill. Everyone in the transaction -- students, schools, and lenders -- needs to have value at risk for loans to be workable and fair.

Student loans were dischargable for decades until the government stepped in and interfered with the market. Not long after, we ended up with insane tuition inflation, debt slaves for life, and the government giving taxpayer money to banks yet again. I understand your point about them being hard to discharge so people give a damn, but how about making them dischargable to banks actually apply some real underwriting to a loan? They're happy to give loans to people who aren't even legally able to enter a contract now, and students with 100K+ in debt that they'll never repay, because they'll get their coin. A high school geek with a 4.0 GPA going for an engineering degree is likely going to get a loan, but do we really need to give another 20K to someone that's already 80K in debt and on their 8th year of college that's a C student in women's studies?

I'm totally mystified that people think a non-free-market loan program where non-payments are covered with taxpayer money and the banks and schools are incentivized to take advantage of students and inflate costs as much as possible is a good idea.


Discharge laws for student loans got changed because we as a people have lost the meaning of honor. It used to be that BK really was a last resort and one felt shame if it came to it. Then, people figured out that they could get an education, borrow for most of it and then, once they graduated, declare BK and with debt discharged, they actually had a better financial situation then the guy who had to pay on student loans for a decade or two. Not really anything that is a hard asset for banks to go after usually right after someone graduates so little actual loss was suffered.

Can't really blame banks for pushing to make BK harder to file for, especially when it comes to something like education.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 1:23:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2014 1:24:28 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 1:23:57 AM EDT
I just learned an awful lot in this thread... Seriously.

This is one of those threads that I thought I understood an issue, I read a thread, and I am sincerely interested in learning more...

Perhaps allowing folks to discharge student loan debt would force banks to refuse loans to folks who will probably not repay the student loan... As it stands now, the bank has absolutely nothing to lose... Interesting...

Huh.

Very, very interesting thread... Thanks Aimless.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 1:46:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:
Fuck discharging student load debt. Choose wisely in your education if you must go in debt to earn a degree.
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This times 100000000000x
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 1:53:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Probably way more people with credit card debt should be forced into chapter 13 repayment plans, even if only a nominal payment.

On the flip side, student loan exception to bankruptcy has become ridiculous. Do we really want to protect and encourage loaning $ 200k to an undergrad art major?
View Quote

I can agree with this

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 2:03:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2014 2:04:19 AM EDT by midcap]
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Student loans got changed because doctors were immediately going bankrupt when they started private practice, but it used to be you could still discharge them after a period of time. Like a lot of laws, once the door was open things started to creep. Now there is also no statute of limitations on student loans, when you are ninety someone can sue you claiming you took out loans or never paid them 70 years ago.
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it's really messed up IMO coming from the financial world that student loans are set up like that. I am pretty sure there is a default risk premium built into the interest borrowers are paying. Therefore, you have the default priced in, lend and invest accordingly. If some one files bankruptcy, well too bad.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 2:20:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By juni4ling:
I just learned an awful lot in this thread... Seriously.

This is one of those threads that I thought I understood an issue, I read a thread, and I am sincerely interested in learning more...

Perhaps allowing folks to discharge student loan debt would force banks to refuse loans to folks who will probably not repay the student loan... As it stands now, the bank has absolutely nothing to lose... Interesting...

Huh.

Very, very interesting thread... Thanks Aimless.
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Yeah I think that is a very valid point.

It might stop a lot of people from ever studying useless crap filled with liberal indoctrination in the first place.

Maybe having it discharged would not be such a bad idea.

For future debt anyway....don't think I'd want it retroactive for current college debt.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 6:54:35 AM EDT
Corporate bk story: My brother was an electrical contractor. Customer owed him over 100k. Customer filed bk and two weeks later they reopened. Same office, guys, tools, trucks, etc. They simply changed names. Brother had to file bk.

One of my customers owes me 2k. He filed personal and corporate bk, wiped out all of his debt. Kept his house, car, business, tools, etc. He said and I quote, "You wouldn't believe how easy it was. Thirty days start to finish and five minutes before a judge."

Link Posted: 11/30/2014 6:58:39 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
My argument is from a cost benefit theory, not morality or pity.
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OK, so let's make the universities guarantee the student loans.


Link Posted: 11/30/2014 7:03:30 AM EDT
If you borrow money you should be required to pay it back period. File bk and your possessions should be liquidated and the money sent to your creditors.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 7:05:30 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Student loans got changed because doctors were immediately going bankrupt when they started private practice, but it used to be you could still discharge them after a period of time. Like a lot of laws, once the door was open things started to creep. Now there is also no statute of limitations on student loans, when you are ninety someone can sue you claiming you took out loans or never paid them 70 years ago.
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Pretty much what I wanted to point out, the pendulum has swung both ways in my lifetime on many aspects of Bankruptcy laws, but as one of the Enumerated powers of congress, Bankruptcy is in their purview and you have them to thank for it.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 10:45:57 AM EDT
Here's what I think: With Responsible Borrowing comes Responsible Lending

The companies that loan us money on credit cards know what we can afford. They tend their customer base like a crop, hoping to get that crop to produce as much profit as possible. They have a pretty good idea how much they should water their crop, and know that a few of the plants will end up failing because they get a little too much water. Everyone talks about the responsibility of the borrower and infers that getting in over their head makes them deadbeats, but nobody ever mentions the RISK that lenders take in lending people money with little real means of knowing they will get their money back. Not only that, they don't mention that the credit card companies frequently get their investment back in monthly payments before the borrower goes tits-up and stops giving them the pure profit they were hoping for.

Yes, people need to pay their billls, but don't shed any crocodile tears for creditors-they either know damned well they overextend credit to their customers, or are too detached as investors to deserve a return on their money. There has to be a mechanism in society for people who make mistakes handling money, and the people that gamble their money loaning money to normal people who make normal mistakes is just part of the risk in investing.
Link Posted: 11/30/2014 11:26:03 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By garbageman:
If you borrow money you should be required to pay it back period. File bk and your possessions should be liquidated and the money sent to your creditors.
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This
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