Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/5/2005 7:20:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 7:44:39 AM EDT by BeetleBailey]
It has been called to my attention that we need more intellectual discussion here than the ordinary day-in & day-out questions and topics of bread, cars, and movies.

so, here is my essay on the afforementioned conjecture:

In my somewhat brief time spent in the company of the M16/AR15 platform and with like-minded enthusiasts, I have come to discover many interesting facts revolving around this brainchild of one Mr. Eugene Stoner. Although the semi-auto battle rifle platform had been in existance for quite some time prior to the creation of the AR15, this rifle was destined to mark a new chapter in the 'world of small arms' as we know it. Never before has such a rifle outstood the test of time in a period of such drastically changing warfare over the past four decades, and there is certainly no sign of this weapon's usage and battle implementation slowing up, even in the face of threatening new small arms technology and designs such as the infamous H&K XM8.

The history of civilian battle rifle usage spawns back to the American Revolutionary and Civil War, where the family hunting rifle quickly became the battle rifle and vice versa after the spoils of war had ended. Even into the 20th Century we see where World War I and II rifles such as the Springfield and Garand were preserved by such civilian enthusiasts and programs such as the CMP. When Vietnam erupted and crescendoed into the conflict that it did, the AR15/M16 was quickly put up to the test of war as so many of it's predescesors as previously mentioned.

The introduction of the rifle to the public in the form of the SP1 was the ordinary citizen's first civilian access to a rifle in the spirit of such similar rendevous in the past. The rifle's popularity has slowly but gradually begun picking up popularity into the 21st Century where it has secured it's spot in the heirarchy of military-style weapons as the "Gentlemen's Rifle", far surpassing the kudos having been given to it's elder AK47 and AKM-like rivals.

I believe that the AR15/M16 has brought the joys of marksmanship and military enthusiasm to more hieghtened levels as more and more attention is paid in the form of action movies, video games, and mainstream media coverage. It is illogical to think that such a platform as the bolt-action Springfield or the less 'evil-looking' Garand would have reached such similar results under the same exposure in the modern-day world. The panty-waist controversies over detachable magazines, threaded barrels, etc., has given America's best and brightest of the gun culture the opportunity to show the world just why our free America is, and hopefully will always be, a force to be reckoned with either at home or abroad.

Please humor me with concurring retorts.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:38:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:
this brainchild of one Mr. Eugene Stoner.



Hmmmm....There's a thread on the AR15 forum that you might want to look at. It wasn't his brainchild in the strictest sense of the word.

Sounds like a good essay tho.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:40:22 AM EDT
General discussion for general stuff.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:46:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 7:47:08 AM EDT by BeetleBailey]

Originally Posted By PerryF:
General discussion for general stuff.



the first two paragraphs are general, working up to the commentary of the final two, which is my personal answers to the object of discussion.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:49:28 AM EDT
There's too many words up there for me to read.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:52:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
There's too many words up there for me to read.



You're going to complain about not enough depth and then not even take the time or energy to read that which has depth!?

ARRRGH!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:53:37 AM EDT
You have to redefine your terms. the M-16 is NOT a "battle rifle". And the weapons like the kentucky rifle bore no resemblance to the military arms of then or today. How about we talk about how for every m-16 that exsists 20 AK were made. Or how about how the direct gas impingement system is so bad that many countiires added a piston rod. You want accuracy? get a springfield 06 you dingus! I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:55:07 AM EDT
Sounds good. The only place I can say that the AR falls short is in that it is a .22, not a 30cal.

Sorry, no retort to your essay... Other than, Been spending some quality time with your AR lately?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:56:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
There's too many words up there for me to read.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:56:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.





You like HK's?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:56:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
You have to redefine your terms. the M-16 is NOT a "battle rifle". And the weapons like the kentucky rifle bore no resemblance to the military arms of then or today. How about we talk about how for every m-16 that exsists 20 AK were made. Or how about how the direct gas impingement system is so bad that many countiires added a piston rod. You want accuracy? get a springfield 06 you dingus! I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.



I'd argue that some AR15 type rifles ARE actually battle rifles.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:05:10 AM EDT
People seem to try to make law that helps them deal with their inner demons and fear, when what they need is mental health therapy.

I find it revealing that the AR-15 has generated so much hysteria in the public and the halls of congress. As far as crime goes, the AR-15 has pretty much been a non-player. There are always a few incidents, but pistols and shotguns get much more play. That doesn't help the anti-gun crowd focus on the problem, though. Firearms are used defensively far more often than to engage in crime. Most firearms are purchased legally for personal defense and recreation, rather than crime sprees.

Anti-gun members of Congress, in their "wisdom", go thru firearms catalogs and bans weapons that look "scary", special attention being given to the AR-15 type weapons. In the process, they motivate an entire subculture to join in high energy political activism. Trying to pass law that makes them feel empowered over their fears results in a backlash that ultimately costs their party the White House and reverses the anti-gun trend they had cultivated for so long.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:10:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
People seem to try to make law that helps them deal with their inner demons and fear, when what they need is mental health therapy.

I find it revealing that the AR-15 has generated so much hysteria in the public and the halls of congress. As far as crime goes, the AR-15 has pretty much been a non-player. There are always a few incidents, but pistols and shotguns get much more play. That doesn't help the anti-gun crowd focus on the problem, though. Firearms are used defensively far more often than to engage in crime. Most firearms are purchased legally for personal defense and recreation, rather than crime sprees.

Anti-gun members of Congress, in their "wisdom", go thru firearms catalogs and bans weapons that look "scary", special attention being given to the AR-15 type weapons. In the process, they motivate an entire subculture to join in high energy political activism. Trying to pass law that makes them feel empowered over their fears results in a backlash that ultimately costs their party the White House and reverses the anti-gun trend they had cultivated for so long.



wow, now THAT, is a highly intelligent comment! Thanks
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:43:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.





You like HK's?



Nope. I meant the AK. If i meant HK i would have said child not cousin.

As to this

I'd argue that some AR15 type rifles ARE actually battle rifles.



Which configurations are you talking about? the AR-10? Never fielded in combat and useless as the M-14 in full auto, at least for conscripts. Unless it fires a 7.62 Nato or stronger it's not a battle rifle, it's a Strumgewehr.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:51:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.





You like HK's?



Nope. I meant the AK. If i meant HK i would have said child not cousin.

As to this

I'd argue that some AR15 type rifles ARE actually battle rifles.



Which configurations are you talking about? the AR-10? Never fielded in combat and useless as the M-14 in full auto, at least for conscripts. Unless it fires a 7.62 Nato or stronger it's not a battle rifle, it's a Strumgewehr.



M16A2/M16A4 isn't an assault rifle in my eyes. Burst as opposed to auto
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:56:50 AM EDT
Actually, the more critical issue should have been the introduction of the M14 as the primary service weapon. For the first time, the primary weapon issued to the line infantry soldier was not one that was available to the average citizen. This crux point could well be the moment where our culture divided betwen the hoplophobes attempting to take control from those better grounded in reality.

Discuss...
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:46:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:51:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Originally Posted By t-stox:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.





You like HK's?



Nope. I meant the AK. If i meant HK i would have said child not cousin.

As to this

I'd argue that some AR15 type rifles ARE actually battle rifles.



Which configurations are you talking about? the AR-10? Never fielded in combat and useless as the M-14 in full auto, at least for conscripts. Unless it fires a 7.62 Nato or stronger it's not a battle rifle, it's a Strumgewehr.



M16A2/M16A4 isn't an assault rifle in my eyes. Burst as opposed to auto



Ever fired one?



Never on full auto
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:58:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
There's too many words up there for me to read.



Here's the short bus version for ya

It has been called to my attention that we need more intellectual discussion here than the ordinary day-in & day-out questions and topics of bread, cars, and movies.

so, here is my essay on the afforementioned conjecture:

In my somewhat brief time spent in the company of the M16/AR15 platform and with like-minded enthusiasts, I have come to discover many interesting facts revolving around this brainchild of one Mr. Eugene Stoner. Although the semi-auto battle rifle platform had been in existance for quite some time prior to the creation of the AR15, this rifle was destined to mark a new chapter in the 'world of small arms' as we know it. Never before has such a rifle outstood the test of time in a period of such drastically changing warfare over the past four decades, and there is certainly no sign of this weapon's usage and battle implementation slowing up, even in the face of threatening new small arms technology and designs such as the infamous H&K XM8.

The history of civilian battle rifle usage spawns back to the American Revolutionary and Civil War, where the family hunting rifle quickly became the battle rifle and vice versa after the spoils of war had ended. Even into the 20th Century we see where World War I and II rifles such as the Springfield and Garand were preserved by such civilian enthusiasts and programs such as the CMP. When Vietnam erupted and crescendoed into the conflict that it did, the AR15/M16 was quickly put up to the test of war as so many of it's predescesors as previously mentioned.

The introduction of the rifle to the public in the form of the SP1 was the ordinary citizen's first civilian access to a rifle in the spirit of such similar rendevous in the past. The rifle's popularity has slowly but gradually begun picking up popularity into the 21st Century where it has secured it's spot in the heirarchy of military-style weapons as the "Gentlemen's Rifle", far surpassing the kudos having been given to it's elder AK47 and AKM-like rivals.

I believe that the AR15/M16 has brought the joys of marksmanship and military enthusiasm to more hieghtened levels as more and more attention is paid in the form of action movies, video games, and mainstream media coverage. It is illogical to think that such a platform as the bolt-action Springfield or the less 'evil-looking' Garand would have reached such similar results under the same exposure in the modern-day world. The panty-waist controversies over detachable magazines, threaded barrels, etc., has given America's best and brightest of the gun culture the opportunity to show the world just why our free America is, and hopefully will always be, a force to be reckoned with either at home or abroad.

Please humor me with concurring retorts.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:58:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Never on full auto



Consider this an open invitation to those of you in less enlightened lands to stop by anytime to have a little privately owned full auto fun

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:01:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DavidC:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Never on full auto



Consider this an open invitation to those of you in less enlightened lands to stop by anytime to have a little privately owned full auto fun




Awesome!
Nice one
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:08:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
You have to redefine your terms. the M-16 is NOT a "battle rifle". And the weapons like the kentucky rifle bore no resemblance to the military arms of then or today. How about we talk about how for every m-16 that exsists 20 AK were made. Or how about how the direct gas impingement system is so bad that many countiires added a piston rod. You want accuracy? get a springfield 06 you dingus! I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.



I'd argue that some AR15 type rifles ARE actually battle rifles.



Ar15: No
M16: Yes
Ar15 with Go-happy setting: Yes

Ben
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:10:32 AM EDT
I see you're drinking 1%, is that because you think you're fat? Cuz you're not, you could be drinking whole if you wanted to.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:19:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 10:24:40 AM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:26:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
People seem to try to make law that helps them deal with their inner demons and fear, when what they need is mental health therapy.

I find it revealing that the AR-15 has generated so much hysteria in the public and the halls of congress. As far as crime goes, the AR-15 has pretty much been a non-player. There are always a few incidents, but pistols and shotguns get much more play. That doesn't help the anti-gun crowd focus on the problem, though. Firearms are used defensively far more often than to engage in crime. Most firearms are purchased legally for personal defense and recreation, rather than crime sprees.

Anti-gun members of Congress, in their "wisdom", go thru firearms catalogs and bans weapons that look "scary", special attention being given to the AR-15 type weapons. In the process, they motivate an entire subculture to join in high energy political activism. Trying to pass law that makes them feel empowered over their fears results in a backlash that ultimately costs their party the White House and reverses the anti-gun trend they had cultivated for so long.



wow, now THAT, is a highly intelligent comment! Thanks



Indeed.

I bought my first AR-15 BECAUSE of the ban.

I know, personally, at least 3 doctors, two land developers, and multiple lawyers who all had non mil-pattern guns who became fans of the AR-15 because of, and not in spite of, the ban.

The Clinton Gun Ban sold more guns than any marketing ploy the industry could have ever conceived of.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:30:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Indeed.

I bought my first AR-15 BECAUSE of the ban.

I know, personally, at least 3 doctors, two land developers, and multiple lawyers who all had non mil-pattern guns who became fans of the AR-15 because of, and not in spite of, the ban.

The Clinton Gun Ban sold more guns than any marketing ploy the industry could have ever conceived of.



I bought my AR because of the ban as well. Thank you Feinstein for arming another person! The ban sucked, but it woke up people and we are more aware of our rights than ever. Very good post Beetle.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:30:43 AM EDT
Gonzo is right about the AWB as a marketing tool. Hate to say it but clinton did the industry a mixed favor with that one.

Ben
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 10:33:52 AM EDT
M-16 = Assault rifle
FAL = Battle rifle
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:06:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
M-16 = Assault rifle
FAL = Battle rifle



And the difference is?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:12:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
M-16 = Assault rifle
FAL = Battle rifle



And the difference is?



One uses a more powerful round and doesn't have a usefull full-auto mode.

Basically 'Battle Rifle' is a term made up by the guys that shoot the ful-power (.30-06/.308) semi-auto rifles and wanted a cool/scary moniker like the AR-15/AK-47's have (Assault Rifle).

Heck 'Assault Rifle' is a made up moniker to make something sound 'scary'. Cause when the Germans first used that Moniker they weren't assaulting anything - they were defending like crazy as the Allies pushed in on them.

Both are stupid terms that in reality mean very little. The Soviets hjave referred to the AK-47 as a submachine-gun, as the US Army had reffered to the XM-177 as a Submachingun. To the US Army the M16 is just a 'Rifle' as it can be used for assualting or defending...
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:14:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Originally Posted By t-stox:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.





You like HK's?



Nope. I meant the AK. If i meant HK i would have said child not cousin.

As to this

I'd argue that some AR15 type rifles ARE actually battle rifles.



Which configurations are you talking about? the AR-10? Never fielded in combat and useless as the M-14 in full auto, at least for conscripts. Unless it fires a 7.62 Nato or stronger it's not a battle rifle, it's a Strumgewehr.



M16A2/M16A4 isn't an assault rifle in my eyes. Burst as opposed to auto



Ever fired one?



Never on full auto



So which model you got then? I've got an AR15A2…

img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/DSC00105.jpg



That's straight pull. So therefor not an assault rifle.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:14:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
M-16 = Assault rifle
FAL = Battle rifle



And the difference is?



One uses a more powerful round and doesn't have a usefull full-auto mode.

Basically 'Battle Rifle' is a term made up by the guys that shoot the ful-power (.30-06/.308) semi-auto rifles and wanted a cool/scary moniker like the AR-15/AK-47's have (Assault Rifle).

Heck 'Assault Rifle' is a made up moniker to make something sound 'scary'. Cause when the Germans first used that Moniker they weren't assaulting anything - they were defending like crazy as the Allies pushed in on them.

Both are stupid terms that in reality mean very little. The Soviets hjave referred to the AK-47 as a submachine-gun, as the US Army had reffered to the XM-177 as a Submachingun. To the US Army the M16 is just a 'Rifle' as it can be used for assualting or defending...



Ok, that settles it - from now on, I own a "defense rifle". MAkes very much sense. Thanks, Forest
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:19:52 AM EDT
Sounds good, but I have just one problem with your phraseology:


Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

The history of civilian battle rifle usage spawns back to the American Revolutionary and Civil War, where the family hunting rifle quickly became the battle rifle and vice versa after the spoils of war had ended. Even into the 20th Century we see where World War I and II rifles such as the Springfield and Garand were preserved by such civilian enthusiasts and programs such as the CMP. When Vietnam erupted and crescendoed into the conflict that it did, the AR15/M16 was quickly put up to the test of war as so many of it's predescesors as previously mentioned.




This means "booty" or "loot", does it not? I think you used it to mean "turmoil"
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:23:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:24:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
Sounds good, but I have just one problem with your phraseology:


Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

The history of civilian battle rifle usage spawns back to the American Revolutionary and Civil War, where the family hunting rifle quickly became the battle rifle and vice versa after the spoils of war had ended. Even into the 20th Century we see where World War I and II rifles such as the Springfield and Garand were preserved by such civilian enthusiasts and programs such as the CMP. When Vietnam erupted and crescendoed into the conflict that it did, the AR15/M16 was quickly put up to the test of war as so many of it's predescesors as previously mentioned.




This means "booty" or "loot", does it not? I think you used it to mean "turmoil"



1 entry found for spoils.
spoil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spoil)
v. spoiled, or spoilt (spoilt) spoil·ing, spoils
v. tr.

To impair the value or quality of.
To damage irreparably; ruin.
To impair the completeness, perfection, or unity of; flaw grievously: spoiled the party.
To do harm to the character, nature, or attitude of by oversolicitude, overindulgence, or excessive praise. See Synonyms at pamper.
Archaic.
To plunder; despoil.
To take by force.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:26:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 11:29:56 AM EDT by BlairHous]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Originally Posted By t-stox:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.





You like HK's?



Nope. I meant the AK. If i meant HK i would have said child not cousin.

As to this

I'd argue that some AR15 type rifles ARE actually battle rifles.



Which configurations are you talking about? the AR-10? Never fielded in combat and useless as the M-14 in full auto, at least for conscripts. Unless it fires a 7.62 Nato or stronger it's not a battle rifle, it's a Strumgewehr.



M16A2/M16A4 isn't an assault rifle in my eyes. Burst as opposed to auto



Ever fired one?



Never on full auto



So which model you got then? I've got an AR15A2…

img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/DSC00105.jpg



That's straight pull. So therefor not an assault rifle.



No its not… it's semi auto…

So is yours straight pull or semi auto?… please post pics!



A semiauto .223 in the UK. I think not!
I don't own an AR15 as of yet. As you know in the UK we need "good reason" to own a rifle, so I need to find a nearby rifle club.

EDIT: If it is indeed semi-auto I'll give you a virtual high five for "sticking it to the man", but if you are sticking to the letter of the law it's manually operated.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:29:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
Sounds good, but I have just one problem with your phraseology:


Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

The history of civilian battle rifle usage spawns back to the American Revolutionary and Civil War, where the family hunting rifle quickly became the battle rifle and vice versa after the spoils of war had ended. Even into the 20th Century we see where World War I and II rifles such as the Springfield and Garand were preserved by such civilian enthusiasts and programs such as the CMP. When Vietnam erupted and crescendoed into the conflict that it did, the AR15/M16 was quickly put up to the test of war as so many of it's predescesors as previously mentioned.




This means "booty" or "loot", does it not? I think you used it to mean "turmoil"



1 entry found for spoils.
spoil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spoil)
v. spoiled, or spoilt (spoilt) spoil·ing, spoils
v. tr.

To impair the value or quality of.
To damage irreparably; ruin.
To impair the completeness, perfection, or unity of; flaw grievously: spoiled the party.
To do harm to the character, nature, or attitude of by oversolicitude, overindulgence, or excessive praise. See Synonyms at pamper.
Archaic.
To plunder; despoil.
To take by force.


Taken from Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary

Main Entry: 1spoil
Pronunciation: 'spoi(&)l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English spoile, from Middle French espoille, from Latin spolia, plural of spolium animal skin -- more at SPILL
1 a : plunder taken from an enemy in war or a victim in robbery : LOOT b : public offices made the property of a successful party -- usually used in plural c : something valuable or desirable gained through special effort or opportunism or in return for a favor -- usually used in plural
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:32:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
Sounds good, but I have just one problem with your phraseology:


Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

The history of civilian battle rifle usage spawns back to the American Revolutionary and Civil War, where the family hunting rifle quickly became the battle rifle and vice versa after the spoils of war had ended. Even into the 20th Century we see where World War I and II rifles such as the Springfield and Garand were preserved by such civilian enthusiasts and programs such as the CMP. When Vietnam erupted and crescendoed into the conflict that it did, the AR15/M16 was quickly put up to the test of war as so many of it's predescesors as previously mentioned.




This means "booty" or "loot", does it not? I think you used it to mean "turmoil"



1 entry found for spoils.
spoil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spoil)
v. spoiled, or spoilt (spoilt) spoil·ing, spoils
v. tr.

To impair the value or quality of.
To damage irreparably; ruin.
To impair the completeness, perfection, or unity of; flaw grievously: spoiled the party.
To do harm to the character, nature, or attitude of by oversolicitude, overindulgence, or excessive praise. See Synonyms at pamper.
Archaic.
To plunder; despoil.
To take by force.


Taken from Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary

Main Entry: 1spoil
Pronunciation: 'spoi(&)l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English spoile, from Middle French espoille, from Latin spolia, plural of spolium animal skin -- more at SPILL
1 a : plunder taken from an enemy in war or a victim in robbery : LOOT b : public offices made the property of a successful party -- usually used in plural c : something valuable or desirable gained through special effort or opportunism or in return for a favor -- usually used in plural



so we're both right
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:34:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
Sounds good, but I have just one problem with your phraseology:


Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

The history of civilian battle rifle usage spawns back to the American Revolutionary and Civil War, where the family hunting rifle quickly became the battle rifle and vice versa after the spoils of war had ended. Even into the 20th Century we see where World War I and II rifles such as the Springfield and Garand were preserved by such civilian enthusiasts and programs such as the CMP. When Vietnam erupted and crescendoed into the conflict that it did, the AR15/M16 was quickly put up to the test of war as so many of it's predescesors as previously mentioned.




This means "booty" or "loot", does it not? I think you used it to mean "turmoil"



1 entry found for spoils.
spoil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spoil)
v. spoiled, or spoilt (spoilt) spoil·ing, spoils
v. tr.

To impair the value or quality of.
To damage irreparably; ruin.
To impair the completeness, perfection, or unity of; flaw grievously: spoiled the party.
To do harm to the character, nature, or attitude of by oversolicitude, overindulgence, or excessive praise. See Synonyms at pamper.
Archaic.
To plunder; despoil.
To take by force.


Taken from Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary

Main Entry: 1spoil
Pronunciation: 'spoi(&)l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English spoile, from Middle French espoille, from Latin spolia, plural of spolium animal skin -- more at SPILL
1 a : plunder taken from an enemy in war or a victim in robbery : LOOT b : public offices made the property of a successful party -- usually used in plural c : something valuable or desirable gained through special effort or opportunism or in return for a favor -- usually used in plural



so we're both right


Where did you get your def? I had never seen that phrase used to denote "hardships of war", which is the only reason I brought up this semantics game in the first place.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:36:48 AM EDT

Ok, that settles it - from now on, I own a "defense rifle". MAkes very much sense. Thanks, Forest


How about you just own a rifle and don't use any other nomenclature

Mark
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:40:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Ok, that settles it - from now on, I own a "defense rifle". MAkes very much sense. Thanks, Forest


How about you just own a rifle and don't use any other nomenclature

Mark


+1

I think the best way to differentiate rifles is just to add a brief prefix. Ie "gas operated, self loading rifle" etc.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:55:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
M-16 = Assault rifle
FAL = Battle rifle



And the difference is?



Battle rifle = semi-auto or bolt action, full-power caliber, usually smaller magazines, sometimes fixed
Assault rifle = select fire, detatchable magazines, reduced-power caliber
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:56:20 AM EDT
BUMP
Waiting on this UK semiauto AR15. I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm genuinely interested in seeing this semi AR...because I want one
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:02:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:

Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

Originally Posted By FortyFiveAutomatic:
Sounds good, but I have just one problem with your phraseology:


Originally Posted By BeetleBailey:

The history of civilian battle rifle usage spawns back to the American Revolutionary and Civil War, where the family hunting rifle quickly became the battle rifle and vice versa after the spoils of war had ended. Even into the 20th Century we see where World War I and II rifles such as the Springfield and Garand were preserved by such civilian enthusiasts and programs such as the CMP. When Vietnam erupted and crescendoed into the conflict that it did, the AR15/M16 was quickly put up to the test of war as so many of it's predescesors as previously mentioned.




This means "booty" or "loot", does it not? I think you used it to mean "turmoil"



1 entry found for spoils.
spoil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spoil)
v. spoiled, or spoilt (spoilt) spoil·ing, spoils
v. tr.

To impair the value or quality of.
To damage irreparably; ruin.
To impair the completeness, perfection, or unity of; flaw grievously: spoiled the party.
To do harm to the character, nature, or attitude of by oversolicitude, overindulgence, or excessive praise. See Synonyms at pamper.
Archaic.
To plunder; despoil.
To take by force.


Taken from Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary

Main Entry: 1spoil
Pronunciation: 'spoi(&)l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English spoile, from Middle French espoille, from Latin spolia, plural of spolium animal skin -- more at SPILL
1 a : plunder taken from an enemy in war or a victim in robbery : LOOT b : public offices made the property of a successful party -- usually used in plural c : something valuable or desirable gained through special effort or opportunism or in return for a favor -- usually used in plural



so we're both right


Where did you get your def? I had never seen that phrase used to denote "hardships of war", which is the only reason I brought up this semantics game in the first place.



dictionary.com
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:28:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlairHous:
BUMP
Waiting on this UK semiauto AR15. I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm genuinely interested in seeing this semi AR...because I want one



But why do you want one?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:47:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:39:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 2:44:21 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:47:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 2:52:05 PM EDT by BlairHous]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:

Originally Posted By t-stox:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I'll stick with the STG-44's tougher cousin thank you very much.





You like HK's?



Nope. I meant the AK. If i meant HK i would have said child not cousin.

As to this

I'd argue that some AR15 type rifles ARE actually battle rifles.



Which configurations are you talking about? the AR-10? Never fielded in combat and useless as the M-14 in full auto, at least for conscripts. Unless it fires a 7.62 Nato or stronger it's not a battle rifle, it's a Strumgewehr.



M16A2/M16A4 isn't an assault rifle in my eyes. Burst as opposed to auto



Ever fired one?



Never on full auto



funny, you posted this…

……"I've never shot a semiautomatic rifle in my life"……

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=373771

You are so PoWn3d!!

ANdy



Exactly my point. My "never on full auto" comment was a flippant remark aimed at asserting my view that the M16A2 (note the "A2", not M16A1, not AR15, not M4) is not a true assault rifle in that it can -with the standard trigger group- only be fired in semiautomatic or 3 round burst modes of fire.

Yes, I've never actually fired a self loading rifle before. Yes, I have an interest in target shooting. Yes, if self loading rifles were legal in the UK I'd have one. No, I do not have a firearms certificate yet. No, there are no places where the government will allow me to shoot. Yes the police are unwilling to help.

And you are indeed PWN3D as you claimed that you have a self loading AR15 which you do not. It's a straight pull.

EDIT: Oh I see we are resorting to somewhat personal attacks? Does the fact that I own an air rifle make my opinion any less valid than yours? If so why? Way to discredit me! Do you have it in for me or something?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:52:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlairHous:
And you are indeed PWN3D as you claimed that you have a self loading AR15 which you do not. It's a straight pull.



Actually, it is a self-loader.

Mark
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:57:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:
And you are indeed PWN3D as you claimed that you have a self loading AR15 which you do not. It's a straight pull.



Actually, it is a self-loader.

Mark



If so, cool, but mind if I ask how that is possible?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:09:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By BlairHous:
BUMP
Waiting on this UK semiauto AR15. I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm genuinely interested in seeing this semi AR...because I want one



But why do you want one?



HPR.
Why do you ask?
Top Top