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Posted: 1/3/2006 11:48:15 PM EDT
yes or no
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:49:39 PM EDT
Have your barrel cut down and put a Smith Vortex for a 9mm on it
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:50:12 PM EDT
Nah.....it would probably cost too much, and give too little benefit in return.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:52:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Have your barrel cut down and put a Smith Vortex for a 9mm on it


one of these?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:55:20 PM EDT
What the hell, it's sure to piss someone off
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:57:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 11:58:17 PM EDT by _DR]
Send it to ADCO. They will thread it for you right. They are the only ones I would trust with any of my barrels.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:09:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 12:10:15 AM EDT by swingset]
Cut the barrel to 14.875", then put on a 3-prong FH drilled to 9mm on it. Cheap, easy, and it looks cool (which is all that matters). You actually will gain a bit of velocity back by shortening the barrel (about 50fps average, by my chrono).

And, to show I practice what I preach....



Our own JohnnyMcEldoo did the work on mine, he has the Storm barrel removal tool, which is required....and he does great work too.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:16:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
Cut the barrel to 14.875", then put on a 3-prong FH drilled to 9mm on it. Cheap, easy, and it looks cool (which is all that matters). You actually will gain a bit of velocity back by shortening the barrel (about 50fps average, by my chrono).

And, to show I practice what I preach....

home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Storm_Complete.jpg

Our own JohnnyMcEldoo did the work on mine, he has the Storm barrel removal tool, which is required....and he does great work too.

Hmmmm...after seeing this one, allow me to reply.

Forget what I posted earlier; DO IT! That looks damned good!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:18:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
Cut the barrel to 14.875", then put on a 3-prong FH drilled to 9mm on it. Cheap, easy, and it looks cool (which is all that matters). You actually will gain a bit of velocity back by shortening the barrel (about 50fps average, by my chrono).

And, to show I practice what I preach....

home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Storm_Complete.jpg

Our own JohnnyMcEldoo did the work on mine, he has the Storm barrel removal tool, which is required....and he does great work too.


hmmmm, so how do I contact JohnnyMcEldoo?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:23:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
Originally Posted By swingset:
hmmmm, so how do I contact JohnnyMcEldoo?



www.ar15.com/member/member.html?id=18552

Tell him I sent ya.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:27:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Have your barrel cut down and put a Smith Vortex for a 9mm on it


one of these?
www.smithenterprise.com/imagesprod/Vortex_9mm_SMG-Retail.lg.jpg



Yes!!!!
That is the one you want


Be a Trendsetter!!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:48:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Have your barrel cut down and put a Smith Vortex for a 9mm on it


one of these?
www.smithenterprise.com/imagesprod/Vortex_9mm_SMG-Retail.lg.jpg



Yes!!!!
That is the one you want

Be a Trendsetter!!!



I've seen a guy on the Beretta boards with a Vortex on his Storm....alas it's been done.

Even saw a Stg58 hider on a Storm, believe it or not.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:25:18 AM EDT
This thread needs to be linked with this one... there seems to be a little confusion on what is an isn't legal when it comes to the Cx4...
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:59:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
Cut the barrel to 14.875", then put on a 3-prong FH drilled to 9mm on it. Cheap, easy, and it looks cool (which is all that matters). You actually will gain a bit of velocity back by shortening the barrel (about 50fps average, by my chrono).

And, to show I practice what I preach....

home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Storm_Complete.jpg

Our own JohnnyMcEldoo did the work on mine, he has the Storm barrel removal tool, which is required....and he does great work too.



Is yours an SBR?

You can't thread the barrel unless it's an SBR... well, unless you add enough US parts to the gun to make it 922(r) compliant. Remember, the Storm's are imported - not made here in the US.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:27:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jtb33:

Originally Posted By swingset:
Cut the barrel to 14.875", then put on a 3-prong FH drilled to 9mm on it. Cheap, easy, and it looks cool (which is all that matters). You actually will gain a bit of velocity back by shortening the barrel (about 50fps average, by my chrono).

And, to show I practice what I preach....

home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Storm_Complete.jpg

Our own JohnnyMcEldoo did the work on mine, he has the Storm barrel removal tool, which is required....and he does great work too.



Is yours an SBR?

You can't thread the barrel unless it's an SBR... well, unless you add enough US parts to the gun to make it 922(r) compliant. Remember, the Storm's are imported - not made here in the US.



They Storm already IS 922r compliant. They were imported here as a sporting arm, same as a bolt action. Notice it's a bunghole stock. They do not have any features which make them subject to 922r during importation, as I understand it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:32:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 10:33:18 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By jtb33:

Originally Posted By swingset:
Cut the barrel to 14.875", then put on a 3-prong FH drilled to 9mm on it. Cheap, easy, and it looks cool (which is all that matters). You actually will gain a bit of velocity back by shortening the barrel (about 50fps average, by my chrono).

And, to show I practice what I preach....

home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Storm_Complete.jpg

Our own JohnnyMcEldoo did the work on mine, he has the Storm barrel removal tool, which is required....and he does great work too.



Is yours an SBR?

You can't thread the barrel unless it's an SBR... well, unless you add enough US parts to the gun to make it 922(r) compliant. Remember, the Storm's are imported - not made here in the US.



They Storm already IS 922r compliant. They were imported here as a sporting arm, same as a bolt action. Notice it's a bunghole stock. They do not have any features which make them subject to 922r during importation, as I understand it.



And the US made muzzle device would only add to a US parts count anyway. What does being a registered SBR have to do with anything?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:35:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 10:36:09 AM EDT by FMJshooter]
that looks great ! Wish i could that but im not in a free state. Any muzzle brakes that would look cool?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:45:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJshooter:
that looks great ! Wish i could that but im not in a free state. Any muzzle brakes that would look cool?



KKF has a nice-looking (IMHO) "A2-ish" 9mm brake, but - ALAS - he doesn't have the proper tooling to work on these particular barrels (unless something has changed since I last inquired...).
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 11:51:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By jtb33:

Originally Posted By swingset:
Cut the barrel to 14.875", then put on a 3-prong FH drilled to 9mm on it. Cheap, easy, and it looks cool (which is all that matters). You actually will gain a bit of velocity back by shortening the barrel (about 50fps average, by my chrono).

And, to show I practice what I preach....

home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Storm_Complete.jpg

Our own JohnnyMcEldoo did the work on mine, he has the Storm barrel removal tool, which is required....and he does great work too.



Is yours an SBR?

You can't thread the barrel unless it's an SBR... well, unless you add enough US parts to the gun to make it 922(r) compliant. Remember, the Storm's are imported - not made here in the US.



They Storm already IS 922r compliant. They were imported here as a sporting arm, same as a bolt action. Notice it's a bunghole stock. They do not have any features which make them subject to 922r during importation, as I understand it.




Right, but if you thread the barrel, it's no longer 922(r) compliant, right? If that were the case, then I could remove the thumbhole stock from my MAK90 - but that isn't the case.



And the US made muzzle device would only add to a US parts count anyway. What does being a registered SBR have to do with anything?



SBR'ing a rifle will get it exempt from the US parts count (922(r)). For example, you cannot buy a US made Vector V93 receiver and then use an HK33 parts kit to build it into a rifle because you'd be violating the '89 import ban (922(r)) EO. However, if you SBR'ed the V93 receiver first, you could then build it using the HK parts kit and don't have to use any US parts if you don't want to.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 11:53:38 AM EDT
Tag

Popcorn
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:01:12 PM EDT
This is a little off subject, but is there readily available high cap mags for the storm, like 20rd. If so are these reliable, expensive? Ive been looking for a good 9mm carbine, but want the high capacity. thanks
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:08:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 12:10:04 PM EDT by twonami]

Originally Posted By tacman22:
This is a little off subject, but is there readily available high cap mags for the storm, like 20rd. If so are these reliable, expensive? Ive been looking for a good 9mm carbine, but want the high capacity. thanks


Here is the 20 rounder mounted on my gun. Beretta original mags:

there are off brand 30 rounders but I don't know how well they work
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:13:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:14:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jtb33:

SBR'ing a rifle will get it exempt from the US parts count (922(r)). For example, you cannot buy a US made Vector V93 receiver and then use an HK33 parts kit to build it into a rifle because you'd be violating the '89 import ban (922(r)) EO. However, if you SBR'ed the V93 receiver first, you could then build it using the HK parts kit and don't have to use any US parts if you don't want to.



What section is the reference to this SBR exemption in - I have never seen that. I would gladly SBR my FAL to be rid of the foreign-US parts count bullshit.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:14:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:21:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jtb33:
SBR'ing a rifle will get it exempt from the US parts count (922(r)). For example, you cannot buy a US made Vector V93 receiver and then use an HK33 parts kit to build it into a rifle because you'd be violating the '89 import ban (922(r)) EO. However, if you SBR'ed the V93 receiver first, you could then build it using the HK parts kit and don't have to use any US parts if you don't want to.



There is a critical difference between your MAK90 and the Storm. The Mak90 is on the ban list spelled out in the 89 import ban, making it a "non sporting" arm, and subject to 922 regs.

The Storm is NOT, it is a "sporting arm". By changing it, or adding a single evil feature, you haven't violated the 922(r) regs because it's not a gun prohibited from importation under 925(b).

It is legal to add a FH or threads to a Storm, AFAIK.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:36:33 PM EDT
The powder in 9x19 is fast burning. There should be negligable flash out of a long barrel. All the FH does is increase the noise and could adversely effect accuracy if not installed properly.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:20:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DnPRK:
The powder in 9x19 is fast burning. There should be negligable flash out of a long barrel. All the FH does is increase the noise and could adversely effect accuracy if not installed properly.



While I agree it has little impact on muzzle flash, it does have ancillary benefits. One, it protects the crown from damage, and two it looks better than a naked barrel.

I haven't noticed any increased report with mine, it's not loud nor was it to begin with and accuracy is exactly like before (which is expected.....I can't see how I could have screwed it on improperly).
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:40:12 PM EDT
the 3 prong flash hider really improves the look of your CX Storm!

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:51:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By jtb33:
SBR'ing a rifle will get it exempt from the US parts count (922(r)). For example, you cannot buy a US made Vector V93 receiver and then use an HK33 parts kit to build it into a rifle because you'd be violating the '89 import ban (922(r)) EO. However, if you SBR'ed the V93 receiver first, you could then build it using the HK parts kit and don't have to use any US parts if you don't want to.



There is a critical difference between your MAK90 and the Storm. The Mak90 is on the ban list spelled out in the 89 import ban, making it a "non sporting" arm, and subject to 922 regs.

The Storm is NOT, it is a "sporting arm". By changing it, or adding a single evil feature, you haven't violated the 922(r) regs because it's not a gun prohibited from importation under 925(b).

It is legal to add a FH or threads to a Storm, AFAIK.




All this knowledge... I believe both sides because they both sound so good... those who do it have a 50/50 chance of being right or wrong...
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:32:10 PM EDT
bump so the night crew can argue
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:06:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By jtb33:
SBR'ing a rifle will get it exempt from the US parts count (922(r)). For example, you cannot buy a US made Vector V93 receiver and then use an HK33 parts kit to build it into a rifle because you'd be violating the '89 import ban (922(r)) EO. However, if you SBR'ed the V93 receiver first, you could then build it using the HK parts kit and don't have to use any US parts if you don't want to.



There is a critical difference between your MAK90 and the Storm. The Mak90 is on the ban list spelled out in the 89 import ban, making it a "non sporting" arm, and subject to 922 regs.

The Storm is NOT, it is a "sporting arm". By changing it, or adding a single evil feature, you haven't violated the 922(r) regs because it's not a gun prohibited from importation under 925(b).

It is legal to add a FH or threads to a Storm, AFAIK.




All this knowledge... I believe both sides because they both sound so good... those who do it have a 50/50 chance of being right or wrong...



The simple question is this:

What guns are prohibited from being imported into the country under the 89' ban? And, additionally, what features constitute a gun being considered "non-sporting".

Now, when that question is answered, ask yourself if the Storm is either one of those things. Is it specifically mentioned as a no-no AW? Of course not, it's a new gun. Next, does it have features which make it non-sporting? Again, no.

The Storm does NOT fall under the 922 regs, because it is non-sporting.

I would like to see any pertinent link or ATF opinion to the contrary.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:13:17 PM EDT
i have nothing constructive to add here, but i just want to say that this parts-count BS gets my blood BOILING..... i don't understand how the politicians could even TRY to justify it, WHO CARES where the parts were made, US made parts aren't going to make the gun any less deadly or scary than foreign parts.... GRRR
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:18:38 PM EDT
I still say put a Vortex on it
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:33:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
Cut the barrel to 14.875", then put on a 3-prong FH drilled to 9mm on it. Cheap, easy, and it looks cool (which is all that matters). You actually will gain a bit of velocity back by shortening the barrel (about 50fps average, by my chrono).

And, to show I practice what I preach....

home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Storm_Complete.jpg

Our own JohnnyMcEldoo did the work on mine, he has the Storm barrel removal tool, which is required....and he does great work too.



After seeing that pic I think I might pick up a Storm. Very nice!!
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:35:21 PM EDT
All these threads about the Storm... I think I'm gonna have to get one!
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:41:13 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:54:09 AM EDT
Swingset,

The Storm has a thumbhole stock and accepts high-cap mags.

So does a MAK-90, HK SR9, Steyr USR, and many others. The HK USC and SL8 don't even accept high-cap mags.

It's illegal to thread the muzzle and add a FH to any of the above without 922(r) compliance parts. What makes you think would the Storm be any different?

I don't know how Beretta even got import approval for the Storm in the first place.



_DR, NFA firearms are not subject to 922(r), so US compliance parts are not an issue.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:35:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:
Swingset,

The Storm has a thumbhole stock and accepts high-cap mags.

So does a MAK-90, HK SR9, Steyr USR, and many others. The HK USC and SL8 don't even accept high-cap mags.

It's illegal to thread the muzzle and add a FH to any of the above without 922(r) compliance parts. What makes you think would the Storm be any different?

I don't know how Beretta even got import approval for the Storm in the first place.



You may be right, dunno. Where is the pertinant part of the regulations that stipulate that the Storm is, by definition, a gun "not particularly suited towards sporting purposes" and thus governed under 922(r)??

If it had features or was specifically listed as a military arm, an AW, or a gun "not suitable for sporting purposes", I would agree with you As I understand it, the reason that a MAK-90 falls under 922(r), even if it comes in bunghole stocked and neutered, is because that gun is based off of a type specifically denied by the 89 ban. The Storm is not, and therefore comes into the country a "sporting arm", not a prohibited AW with neutered features.

If I'm wrong, I'd love to know it, but I haven't been shown where I am. If anyone has the guts of the regs that show me why I'm wrong, please post them to end any confusion.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:40:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
may be right, dunno. Where is the pertinant part of the regulations that stipulate that the Storm is, by definition, a gun "not particularly suited towards sporting purposes" and thus governed under 922(r)??

If it had features or was specifically listed as a military arm, an AW, or a gun "not suitable for sporting purposes", I would agree with you As I understand it, the reason that a MAK-90 falls under 922(r), even if it comes in bunghole stocked and neutered, is because that gun is based off of a type specifically denied by the 89 ban. The Storm is not, and therefore comes into the country a "sporting arm", not a prohibited AW with neutered features.

If I'm wrong, I'd love to know it, but I haven't been shown where I am. If anyone has the guts of the regs that show me why I'm wrong, please post them to end any confusion.




I don't know for sure, and you might be right that the Storm is importable because it's not based on any military weapon. The ATF FFL guide isn't very helpful.

If I were you, I'd keep it the way it is, and whatever you do, don't write a letter to ATF about it.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:48:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:
If I were you, I'd keep it the way it is, and whatever you do, don't write a letter to ATF about it.



That's my plan.

Unless I'm way off base, the ATF would have to deny the Storm as being "not suitable for sporting purposes" to make it a type that cannot be altered with an "evil feature", as 922 was put in place to keep importation of parts to build what would be an otherwise illegal to import weapon, and the parts count issue is a "loophole" to that.

If the Storm was a type that was prohibited from importation based on the 925 regs, then it wouldn't be here to begin with...as it's 100% foreign built.

Shit, confusing. But, I'm still pretty sure I'm ok.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:15:56 AM EDT
I like the flash hider but I just threw the shroud on mine:


Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:16:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 9:09:29 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By Recon_by_Fire:
I like the flash hider but I just threw the shroud on mine:



Yep, I did the same thing...




I just won't take chances with firearms laws, no matter how stupid they may be. If there is a "gray area" at all, I err on the side of caution. YMMV, of course.

Until I see something definitive saying it is legal, I personally would not thread the barrel or add a FH... even though I agree it looks much better, I like a shorter barrel on a PCC, and I doubt any of you who have already done it will ever be prosecuted or anything. (FWIW, SBRs are currently a no-no in Alabama, so that's not an option for me at this time. ) If Kurt ever gets the proper tools to cut the barrel down and permanently add one of his Tac-Brakes, I'll still go that route (should be completely legal).
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:07:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
I was told, in a call to the ATF office that the Storm was not imported as an AW, or as a parts gun, it was imported as a "Sporting Arm", it does not have evil features, and is not subject to 922r regulation therefore threading or putting an FH on it is legal, as the gun is not considered an AW.

I proceeded to thread/FH mine, and to be honest I'm not sweating bullets about the decision....but I guess the ATF folks I talked to could be wrong. At least I asked first.

According to what I have read of the 89' ban, here is the meat and taters:

According to the 925(d) business a firearm can be imported if it:


(1) it is not defined as a firearm under the National Firearms Act (NFA); (2) it is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes; and (3) it is not a surplus military firearm.


Now, the Storm is not a surplus military rifle, is suitable for sporting purposes (bunghole stock, no FH, etc.), and it's not defined as an NFA firearm. Therefore, it's not 922(r) regulated. And, being no different than any other imported arm, can be modified with evil features.



Sounds good to me... Get it in writing with the guy's signature and his boss's and keep it in the case...
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:10:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Recon_by_Fire:
I like the flash hider but I just threw the shroud on mine:
i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/CX-4%20Storm/Storm-2.jpg
i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/CX-4%20Storm/shroud.jpg
i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/CX-4%20Storm/barrel.jpg



That does look pretty cool.
And it's made by Beretta?
Where do you buy it?
What purpose does it serve though, beyond cosmetic?
It's just held onto the barrel with the screws, right? Any chance of it sliding off when shooting, or somehow becoming a problem when the barrel heats up from shooting?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:22:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HardShell:
i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/HardShell/RWB%20-%20Rifles/Stormwithshroud-left.jpg



I wish Beretta would come out with a more streamlined VFG using that rail attachment. Where instead of the bottom rail it's a VFG that when mounted to the rifle looks like it's part of it. Attaching a regular VFG makes it look kinda clunky IMHO.

Maybe something like this...



I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for them to make this. Keep the mag well in it... it can hold a spare. Maybe move the release to a better position to be pushed by the opposite hand though.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:39:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 11:40:33 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
That does look pretty cool.
And it's made by Beretta?

Yes.

Where do you buy it?

www.shopberetta.com/e2wItemMain.aspx?functionId=009000008&parentID=019001246&parentLink=012000100:008000219:008000183
(cheaper elsewhere...)

What purpose does it serve though, beyond cosmetic?

Purely cosmetic.

It's just held onto the barrel with the screws, right?

Yes. One screw with a nylon end so as not to mar the barrel.

Any chance of it sliding off when shooting, or somehow becoming a problem when the barrel heats up from shooting?

Mine slid forward slightly the first time I did any extensive shooting with it. It needs to be tightened very well and probably loc-tited as well (although I haven't done so). I've thought about drilling a small "dimple" in the barrel for the screw to engage and doing away with the nylon "cusion" - but that will only be a "last resort" if the problem recurs.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:42:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 11:44:08 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
Maybe something like this...

www.mattandpamazon.com/images/matt/Photoshops/stormVFG.jpg

I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for them to make this. Keep the mag well in it... it can hold a spare. Maybe move the release to a better position to be pushed by the opposite hand though.



Not a bad idea at all, IMHO!

I tried one of the "factory" VFGs for it (actually, just a TDI folding VFG with the Beretta logo added) but didn't care for it very much.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:59:03 AM EDT
Question: if swingset is correct and it can be modified with evil features...could you cut off the strip connecting the pistol grip to the stock so it is a true pistol grip?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:09:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Question: if swingset is correct and it can be modified with evil features...could you cut off the strip connecting the pistol grip to the stock so it is a true pistol grip?



Yes, you could, but IIRC the area at the buttstock is hollow, so you'll have to be very good at plastic/polymer work or it'll look pretty hokey.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:15:57 PM EDT
I wanna make this:
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