Because some people can't just use their religion a guideline for their own lives-
-they have to use it as a lens through which to view and judge others.

Oh, and some people are just plain bores, who would be hell to stand(get stuck) next to at a cocktail party.

[beer]Thanks![beer]

Sorry man, this is off the topic, but that's a GREAT name you got for a log in. "The Beer Slayer", that's freaking awesome!!!!

Well guy, the truth is that everybody views life through their own set of lenses. We all use our life experiences and prejudices to view and judge others, just as you did above.

Not a flame, just a fair observation.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

That's YOUR rule, not mine.

I can do all the care-free judging I please. [:)]
...besides I believe it was merely an observation.

I for one am not trying to change anyones position on religion. People ask questions and others post responses. You gotta figure that someone will have strong personal feelings on ANY topic that is started. It is "General Discussion"

What if we start a "Why do you hate n***ers" thread? Or let's say we post a sign up sheet for the next Million Mom March? Gonna get some strong posts on either one.

What I don't understand is why those who are not religious insist on beating down those who are? Why so much anger?

Come on and get cool. I like this board cause you have guys on all sides here with strong opinions who aren't afraid to speak. Let's just be civilized and fair.

God made mean people too.[:D]
.....
.....
[pyro]

When there was a "who here loves Jesus" thread, I didn't click.
When there's a "Look at these hot chicks" thread, YOU folks always DO.

And a fair observation it is, Major. I am not judging you or anyone else.

BTW, it's not my rule. Jesus said it.I just choose to try my best to live by it. The whole thing goes like this:

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you"

Perhaps if all of us, religious or not, tried to live like this our world might be a little better place to live.

Yea let's stay on topic! [img]http://www.netsnapshot.com/users/814/images/O1746MCoBQIAAE61ySw_814_10.pjpeg[/img]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Those guys hack me off, too. Ghandi once visited the US and when traveling from New York to the West Coast he was told he had to sit in the back of the train cause he was black. Later he was asked about America and Christianity. He said Christianity intrigued him but he hadn't found any Christians to ask about it.

The Christianity that the Bible speaks of is not based on control or fear. It is based on freedom and mercy. If I have to be scared into being a part of something, I don't want any part of it.

Every time someone mentions the Inquistion and Crusades I gotta remind them that human governments and commercialism can corrupt any institution, no matter how noble. Keep in mind that for several hundred years the only education and social services available in this country (in the entire Western Hemisphere)were supplied by the church. On balance I think the good far outweighs the bad.

Don't let people get you down. And maybe brew up a batch for me. Not much home brew down here.

Later

Amen, brother Beer Slayer!!!!

someone questioned why those with strong religious beliefs "always" bring it up, even in topics that are not related to religion:  because there is no separating their opinion of something from their religion.  the two are most definitely NOT mutually exclusive.  the one does not exist without the other.  the presence of religion determines the opinion.  the presence of religion in their lives colors their opinions/views as much as the lack of religion in others' lives colors their opinions/views.  mentioning the religious root of their opinions is NOT shoving it down the throat of non-believers, despite what so many think.  the only difference is that non-believers do NOT have a similar root of opinion, and therefore cannot mention one.

it is not moral proselytizing or preaching from the bully pulpit.  i just want to make that point because so many on this site think that the mere mention of one's religious belief is a frontal attack against non-believers.  that is so not the case.

Very well said. Thank you.

just adding some flame to the fest....
[pyro][heavy][uzi][rocket]

in any other discussion on this board, a claim made without a reference is scoffed at, ridiculed, made light of, disbelieved, and otherwise thrown out with the trash.  why are religious references not allowed then?

so christians (or jews, or muslims, or hindus, or jainists, or whatever) can't share a deep personal thing because it might inflame one group or another?  again, the Scriptures are part of parcel of a Christian's belief system.  non-believers just do not have an analogous set of written words to guide them and therefore cannot refer to them.  why should religious people be gagged because non-religious people do not have an equivalent source?  i might be incorrect, but i believe that the majority of those who say that they'll do whatever they want or say whatever they want, regardless of whether it offends (inflames) others or not, are also those who pronounce their atheism.

i also find it ironic that those who are quickest to accuse someone of being "too sensitive" or "too easily offended" are also those who are the quickest to react in a negative manner when a religious comment is made (regardless of the tone, point, or direction of that comment).  could it be that they themselves are "too sensitive" or "too easily offended" about the religion topic and should themselves "lighten up a bit"?

i'm just throwing these out as rhetoricals.  not directed at you personally, because several others would have said this same thing.

but i bring them up because i see a double standard.  if a Christian referring to the Bible bothers someone, perhaps that person has some more serious problems or doubts about his own belief system than he's willing to admit.  and rather than face up to them, he shuns them and demands that all others do the same.  no, this is not the case for all on this board.  but it is obvious who is not bothered by their own lack of belief in a religious figure.  they do not hassle (harrass?) believers about their belief.

airing it out is good.  on a civil and peacable level.  i like how we're keeping it that way (hint, hint to other who join.)  but i don't think "got it over with" will ever apply to this topic.  there will always be Christians and there will always be atheists (i limit it to those since i sense that this is the dominant "conflict" on this site).  and the one side will probably never agree with the other.  heck, they can't.  but continuing discourse can be fun and enlightening.  it's been a pleasure so far.

Point taken Mike. To the extent you may have been talking to me, I will refrain. Please understand that as a student of history it really gets me when people misquote sayings, so I usually refer to the original speaker, document and location when I can. Whether it is the Bible or George Washington, I just like to get it right.

Thank you for not resorting to nastiness in your responses to these posts. you are a gentleman.

ARlady,

You forgot one group. How about those that have read many religious tomes and just don't think that they are worth quoting.

Magic, what about them?  i don't see your point.

Post from Major Murphy -

Well, Major, I'm glad YOU didn't click on the 'who here loves Jesus' thread, but you'll note that quite a few who did [u]not[/u] love Jesus posted on that thread.  Soooo what?  Who cares?  More power to them!

I think it rather unlikely that anything that I may read on an assault rifle board would cause me to question MY faith, and I doubt anything that you read here would cause you to believe in something which you've already chosen not to believe.

Eric The(Isn'tThatThePoint)Hun[>]:)]

Things that make you go Hmmmm?

Live and let live...

Now thats a religion I can believe in.  [:D]

Maybe not? It is difficult to respond to this thread without getting personal because it is the actions of one Moderator who is constantly interjecting his religious beliefs. I am tired of hearing about one self righteous mans personal walk with God through the Gun Garden of Iniquity.

   I am here because I like the format of gun related topics which are shared by an audience comprised mostly of men.  I enjoy the opinions of the three women on AR-15.com (or is it four?), but it is and always will be dominated by men which is why the topic of hot looking babes comes up! I like looking at red hot babes and if you are offended by this you should not go there and especially not be a Moderator in this environment. My soul is my problem unless I ask you for help or advice.

  The finest Christians I have ever know have made their position clear by words but more by actions and not by constantly cramming their opinions down my throat. That isn't Christianity...it's self righteousness, and most of them will be smoking in a hotter place in hell than me.

   

Getsome, i understand how/why you might be uncomfortable with religious discussion.  but why must those who do not like or appreciate looking at pictures of women "not go there" and yet you are free to go wherever you like and complain about what you see or read there?  not a flame, just a question.  i think you could safely assume, given the author and title, that a religious overtone would soon pop up in this thread.  why did you not practice what you preach (pun intended) and just "not go there"?  i'm just curious if you see a difference of standards here: one for yourself and one for others.

Discussing religion is oft considered a social no-no for very good reasons.
If you anounce that you believe that Jesus is God, you are also, automatically, saying that all other religions are false.
There's no escaping it.
And that's plain rude.

Show a girly picture and you may offend someone.
So what.
It's not as bad as implying that one's deeply held beliefs are false, or erroneous.

thank you for proving my point.  it's okay for you to offend someone by posting something.  but it's not okay for them to offend you by stating they're religious.

as to the last sentence, i have found that the majority of people who believe this tend to have no religion at all.  no flame, just follow me here.  two people of different religions are talking about the differences.  John cannot get mad at Sam because Sam believes his own religous is truth and therefore no other religion is.  John himself, in believing in HIS religion, also by default believes that Sam's religion is false.  he cannot be mad at a person for doing something he himself is guilty of also.  and neither one is truly being intolerant by believing that all other religions are false.  neither can fully believe in his own religion if he believes that other religions are also true.  those of opposing religions know this and most accept it for what it is:  a difference of belief, not an insult to one's deeply held beliefs.  it's not intolerance.  john can easily believe his own religous is the truth and just as easily accept that not everybody is going to believe it, believing that they have the right to believe in whatever they want.

in america at least, the only people who don't want any talk about religion are those that don't have it and those who want it removed from all aspects of society.

Well said!

I'm guilty of throwing religious statements into these topics and will continue to do so until they are stopped.

I get tired of looking at all the trash. I'll stop my "Bible Thumping" when the garbage posts stop.............[spank]

Post from Major Murphy -

Yes, 'religion and politics' are considered 'no-no' subjects for conversation at social events and gatherings.  But when has politics ever been considered off-limits on this Board?

Insofar as your position that an announcement of one's religious beliefs is to be considered as an attack on the validity of other religions is concerned, I can't agree.

There are just too many variations of beliefs held by Christians to simply generalize about what a belief in Jesus might imply.  I have my own thoughts on this subject, other believers have theirs. It's just the kind of freedom that we enjoy as Believers!

The implication is that by saying you believe in A, then B is not to be believed, is not well-founded.  There are many believers in A, who think that believers in B are just peachy-keen as well. There are those who believe in A, who think that it's not their concern to hold or express an opinion on anyone's belief in B.

So YOU arrive at a position that if someone says they believe in Jesus, YOU automatically know what THEY think about other religions!

Who died and made you Pope?

Eric The(Believing)Hun[>]:)]

You can't have it both ways.
If you are jewish, you don't believe that Jesus is God. Period.
If you are christian, believe that Jesus is God.
Period.
To believe in one automatically means the other is false. Period.

If you call yourself a christian and claim to also believe in Zeus, Apollo and all the other lesser gods, guess what?
You're not a christian.

Well, it would die there if no one responded.  

But then someone responds, and a discussion / bar room brawl breaks out.

In a perfect world, they original respondant with the "religious" insight would start a NEW thread (I'm a huge offender here), but then you would lose the context in which teh religious comment was made.

Its a conundrum, my friend.

WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!

[beer]

rotfl!!!!!!!

I could assume you are talking about me, but I won't do that.

So, ONE GUY, one lone little voice, one insignificant religious extrovert among the 10,000 other "heathen" members  like yourself, haz you all in a tizzy????

He singlehandedly makes life difficult for you??? YOU ARE IN THE MAJORITY!!!!!!!! You have thousands behind you - he is alone in his opinion (at least THAT is what you claim) And this inconsequential, lone voice crying in the wildernesss has "tired" you out ????

ROTFLOL

Hint: When you see one of my posts, SKIP OVER IT!!!!!!! Don't read it!!!!!!!!! (I beleive THAT is the advice that I usually get from you guys. Physician, heal thyself.)

I can speak from this personally, I have a friend who would qualify as the Garandman type of christian.

For this type of person since literally every thing comes from the graces of God then of course to them every topic from speaking of guns to hot sexy porogrophy is related to thier religious beliefs.

Every thought they have on every topic comes from thier religious base of reference.

They can not keep thier post from going this direction because it is so engrained in thier core at the very deepest levels.  They are not being pushy, they are just expressing thier deepest feelings and when other reject them they are having thier most deepest core beliefs and basic reason for existance trampled on.

What these type of people do not realize is that what they are doing to us is "Spewing thier morality onto us" They think they are wittnessing to others but they are actually driving people farther away from god, there are a lot of people who have always felt this void in thier beings. They turn to drugs, alcohol, sexual vices, and other to try to fill this void. Then one day they realize that God was the missing thing that they needed to fill this void. They want to share this thing that filled thier void with others just like one would want to share a pitcher of beer with a friend who looked thirsty. I belive Garandman sees us as thirsty friends and he is trying to share with us what has filled the void in his life.

Well just for future reference not all of us are born with that void. Some of us are perfectly content with outselves and need no filling of the void. Trying to fill a void in us when we are already full makes us build pressure and bust. You drive us away.

Garandman if this post offends you in any way I am sorry that was not my intent. Your name just got sucked into this as an example of how I fell you probably feel. This is really accurate only about my friend. Substitute the words my friend everytime I type Garandman if this does not apply to you.

that's a darn good summation of it, David.




Christ told us to expect that. They did it to Him. Am I deserving of better treatment than my saviour?? NO. I should just toughen up and take it. He did.



I'll disagree here. "These people" realize EXACTLY what they are doing. What you've got to realize is that even non-religion IS a religion. By "spewing" their porn, curse words, alcohol etc etc on us, they are "spewing" their immorality on me. One wise man once said that there is no difference between teh secular and the sacred. BOTH represent a form of religion. What  we ALL need to do is to quit being so dang "oprahized' and act like men who don't get "offended" at teh drop of a hat.




I actually agree with this. I take offense at the semi-arrogant way my Christian brothers condescend to others and ram rod God down peoples throats. But let's gain some perspective here - simply because I mention a Biblical perspective (I can't REMEMBER the last time I ACTUALLY quoted a Bible verse) that IS NOT ramming religion down anyones throat. Its odd how intolerance the tolerance crowd is to intolerance. (not a spcific jab at any specific individual)




I used to think that way. But then i realized how arrogant that was. Let me give another perspective. Jesus Christ is the BEST thing that has ever happened to me in my life. What kinda turd would I be if I kept Him to myself??? lastly, i am commanded to spread the word - kindly, humbly, gently  - and then let people make up their own minds.

(continued)



the Bible indicates otherwise.





No offense taken, David. And it seems once you calm down a bit, you offer VERY good insights, as you have here.

From (you don't talk about it):

"You have got to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you!

We don’t need him.

F**k damnation, f**k redemption! If we are God’s unwanted children – so be it!


AMEN!

Tyler

I couldn't agree more.    [sniper]

I am uncomfortable with religious dicussion when it is used to chastise me during an otherwise fun thread. If Garandman or anyone else wants to start a religion based thread concerning their beliefs then more power to them. I won't/don't go there if the topic looks boring or otherwise uninteresting to me.

There was a thread not too long in the past concerning those who love Jesus and I couldn't tell you the 1st thing about it because I never opened it. I didn't jump in to throw in my $.02 in but passed it by, but post some girly pics here and every religious zealot will be preaching fire and brimstone.

People who are "uncomfortable" when religion
appears on a thread that is about bikini clad
women or any other subject must realize that
its THEIR conscience.
People who profess they don't believe in God
are liars. I can, and so can anyone else, make
anyone beg for Gods mercy and salvation. In
MANS darkest hour they always cry out to God.