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Posted: 9/25/2005 1:05:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 3:02:03 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Below I listed the 5 most common misconceptions that people have regarding Mormons (or members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). There are many more than this, however these are the most common.  In addition I added many informational links and websites.

Disclaimer
I am not an official spokesperson for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This thread is not intended to preach, convert, or proselyte. This is simply an informational thread that I created due to some comments and questions that were brought up in another.
----------

Misconception #1
The name of the church to which Mormon's belong is The Mormon Church and they believe in Mormonism. A mormon is someone who belongs to The Mormon Church.
Fact
The official name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the way the name of the church should be displayed when speaking of the church is the way I typed it exactly. When referring to the church as a whole, the official name is to be used and not confused w/ "Mormonism". Terms as "the church" can also be referred to when discussing it as a whole.
Correct Uses of the word Mormon
It is not unproper to use the word "mormon" when describing something however that belongs to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. For example, "This is a Mormon belief" or "Mormon Tabernacle Choir". However the term Mormon is an unofficial term for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; members prefer to be referred to as Latter-day Saints or LDS. The term "mormonism" in no way signifies anything to do w/ the church.
----------

Misconception #2
Mormons aren't Christian.
Fact
Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said:
"We are Christians in a very real sense and that is coming to be more and more widely recognized. Once upon a time people everywhere said we are not Christians. They have come to recognize that we are, and that we have a very vital and dynamic religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ."

"We, of course, accept Jesus Christ as our Leader, our King, our Savior. The dominant figure in the history of the world, the only perfect Man who ever walked the earth, the living Son of the living God. He is our Savior and our Redeemer through whose atoning sacrifice has come the opportunity of eternal life."

"Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints pray and worship in the name of Jesus Christ. He is the center of our faith and the head of our Church. The Book of Mormon is Another Testament of Jesus Christ and witnesses of His divinity, His life, and His Atonement."
----------

Misconception #3
Mormons are polygamists.
Fact
Plural Marriage, or polygamy, was once practiced by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However this practice was discontinued 1890 after a statement by one of the former presidents of the church, Wilford Woodruff.

Speaking of those who continue the practice, President Hinckley, the current President of the church said, "They are in violation of the civil law. They know they are in violation of the law. They are subject to its penalties." Furthermore he said, "I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members... If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose."

For information regarding this check these two links provided.
Link #1
Link #2
----------

Misconception #4
Mormons have their own Bible.
Fact
Joseph Smith, the founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said in 1842 that, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."

Latter-day Saints read, study, and teach from The King James Version of the Holy Bible. They also read, study, and teach from The Book of Mormon. We believe both books to be the word of God.

For information regarding The Book of Mormon, check out the links below.
Link #1 - What The Book of Mormon is.
Link #2 - Get a Free copy of The Book of Mormon sent in the mail or delivered in person.
Link #3 - Read The Book of Mormon online.
----------

Misconception #5
Latter-day Saints are all from Utah
Fact
Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do not only reside within the state of Utah. In fact, there are nearly 12 million members worldwide, with most of the church's membership residing outside of the continental United States.
----------

I provided more links below.

Introduction to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Frequently Asked Questions

Websites owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Official Website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Official Information of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Spiritual and Temporal Welfare
Internet Genealogy Service
Church colleges, universities, and institutes of religion
----------


I'm going to add this warning into the first post, so no one can claim they didn't see it. Everyone is free to discuss any information posted in this thread. I will not tolerate any bashing or attempts to attack any members or their beliefs in here.***va-gunnut***
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:24:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:52:49 PM EDT
Are we allowed to answer with OUR observations and beliefs of the LDS church without you guys getting angry, yelling "ANTI" and running to the mods to have the thread locked?

I'm talking about honest discourse..No name calling, but true debate...??? Not a show of who has bigger cojones or who is tougher (like someone in another thread..anger got the best of him)

How about it? Are you up on your churches beliefs?

If not, I'll just leave it here then...

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:44:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 5:45:43 PM EDT by MormonComputerZ]
After 2-years of calumny, I've learned to not let it bother me.  I have no problem and I'm sure the other LDS Members on this site don't either.  As long as we remain respectable.  If you have a question, ask it in full, please don't ask it deceptively preparing a snare for whatever answer you might recieve to an initial question.

For example...

"Do you believe that a prophets words should come to pass?"

"Yes."

"Then why did Brigham Young once say......and it never came to pass!  That proves that he wasn't a prophet!"

I'm fine with any honest questions that someone might have and those I will take serioiusly and answer.  Questions where someone has a set agenda to make a point I will not answer.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:30:48 PM EDT
Here's a question for you................what is the idea behind the undergarments that have symbols on them?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:34:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Az_Redneck:
Are we allowed to answer with OUR observations and beliefs of the LDS church without you guys getting angry, yelling "ANTI" and running to the mods to have the thread locked?

I'm talking about honest discourse..No name calling, but true debate...??? Not a show of who has bigger cojones or who is tougher (like someone in another thread..anger got the best of him)

How about it? Are you up on your churches beliefs?

If not, I'll just leave it here then...




AZ_Redneck,

You are more than welcome to post your observations and beliefs.  Where you will find members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (it is a lot to type, isn't it) getting defensive is when someone posts an opinion or speculation as if it were a fact.

I've done my best in other threads to be as informative as possible.  Where I've gotten frustrated is when someone posts speculation as fact, or worse, a lie as if it were fact, and then keeps hammering the same illogical point.  It kills the discussion very quickly, which is unfortunate for those who really want to "discuss".
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:45:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Here's a question for you................what is the idea behind the undergarments that have symbols on them?



In practice, it's almost the exact same idea behind why orthodox Jews wear their sacred undergarments.  It reminds us of our covenants with the Lord.

I hold the priesthood and have been ordained to the office of Elder in my Church.  I serve in a lay (unpaid) priesthood organization and can be called upon to serve in that respect at anytime, night or day.  Yes, I've been called at 2:00 a.m. to serve in a priesthood responsibility.  As a full time priesthood holder, I also have my regular work duties, yardwork, etc. to attend to.  I can't go around wearing robes or other priesthood garb, so instead we wear our priesthood garments under our regular day clothes.  They are there as a constant reminder of who I am and what I have to live up to.

Then there's the urban legend that the undergarment is bullet proof.  The undergarment is a protection, in that it reminds the wearer of responsibilities and covenants (reasons to avoid sin).  Could the Lord choose to make it more on occasion?  Perhaps, but it would be entirely up to the Lord.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:53:19 PM EDT
Thanks for the answer Shane, and here is another............I have heard this before from people, so I will ask you..........A "belief" that Mormons will rise to a level equal with GOD, and rule planets other than Earth.........again, I have heard people talk about these ideas, and these arent my own.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:05:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 7:06:58 PM EDT by ajm1911]

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Here's a question for you................what is the idea behind the undergarments that have symbols on them?

 

I got this one guys

from www.answers.com/topic/temple-garment

In a Church publication entitled Preparing to Enter the Holy Temple the story is told of a church leader who answered questions from a group of US Navy Chaplains representing various faiths. The chaplains asked about distinctive practices of the LDS Church. One chaplain asked about the special underwear that LDS sailors wear. The church leader responded by asking the chaplain if he wore clerical clothing as he performed his duties as an ordained minister. The chaplain responded that he did. The church leader surmised that this action probably held some significance, as it set the priest apart from the unordained members of the congregation. The following paragraphs are quoted from that work:

"He then told them: 'You should be able to understand at least one of our reasons why Latter-day Saints have a deep spiritual commitment concerning the garment. A major difference between your churches and ours is that we do not have a professional clergy, as you do. The congregations are all presided over by local leaders. They are men called from all walks of life. Yet they are ordained to the priesthood. They hold offices in the priesthood. They are set apart to presiding positions as presidents, counselors, and leaders in various categories. The women, too, share in that responsibility and in those obligations. The man who heads our congregation on Sunday as the bishop may go to work on Monday as a postal clerk, as an office worker, a farmer, a doctor; or he may be an air force pilot or a naval officer. By our standard he is as much an ordained minister as you are by your standard. He is recognized as such by most governments. We draw something of the same benefits from this special clothing as you would draw from your clerical vestments. The difference is that we wear ours under our clothing instead of outside, for we are employed in various occupations in addition to our service in the Church. These sacred things we do not wish to parade before the world.'

"He then explained that there are some deeper spiritual meanings as well, connecting the practice of wearing this garment with covenants that are made in the temple. We wouldn’t find it necessary to discuss these—not that they are secret, he repeated, but because they are sacred."

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:15:28 PM EDT
why dont yall stay in utah?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:15:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Thanks for the answer Shane, and here is another............I have heard this before from people, so I will ask you..........A "belief" that Mormons will rise to a level equal with GOD, and rule planets other than Earth.........again, I have heard people talk about these ideas, and these arent my own.



You aren't the first to ask this question, and you won't be the last to bring it up.

To properly answer you, I will have to give a little background:

We believe that mankind is the literal offspring of God.  We are His literal spiritual children and lived with God before coming to earth.  We grew and progressed spiritually.  However, to continue our eternal progression it became necessary for us to receive a body and be tested.  Therefore, our spirits come to earth to receive a body and to be tested.  At the heart of it all is the Atonement that our eldest brother, Jesus Christ/Jehovah, would perform on our behalf.

So we are here to be tested, but then we must ask, "why?"  Answer:  To see if we can continue progressing.  After this life, if we have proven faithful, we may continue progressing to become like our Father in Heaven.  As his literal children, we have that potential within us.

Some would argue that such claims are blasphemous.  We believe that to reject this idea is to fail to understand our true standing with our Father in Heaven, and therefore our very selves.

Yes, I will provide some citation for this.  
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:19:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By billy_bob:
why dont yall stay in utah?



Because there is no need to.  I personally was raised in California.  I moved to Utah because of work opportunities when I was 18 (I'd been looking for work in California for several weeks without success at the time).

Later, I went back to Utah because of educational opportunities.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:22:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:27:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:



But...not that I'm likely to join up with ANY organized religion....but even if I did,  I seriously doubt that
I would wear the designated undergarments.    God's not going to check the label in your briefs.   He's not that shallow or fashion oriented,  particularly when clothing is OUR invention and not HIS.
(I hold the belief that a totally honest and perfectly God-oriented church's congregation would worship 100 percent nude.)






That's ok.  The purpose of this thread isn't to proselyte, but to simply clarify misconceptions and answer questions.

It's getting a little late and I need to turn in soon (wife needs some of my time).  I will provide some citation for my earlier comments, but it will have to wait until I get the chance tomorrow.  I just hope some joker doesn't get the thread locked before I can answer.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:27:51 PM EDT
WELL Sane the n mormans are trying to buy all the land they can here in texas an force their beliefes down our throat but its not going to happen
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:37:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By billy_bob:
WELL Sane the n mormans are trying to buy all the land they can here in texas an force their beliefes down our throat but its not going to happen



Have you been drinking and posting?!?


Bob
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:41:34 PM EDT
excuse my spelling but you need to keep your pagan religion in utah
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:46:43 PM EDT
Well, I will be forthright with you then and give you some background on myself so it doesn't look like I am trying to deceive you.

Back in 1991 I became interested in other "religions" and what they believed while I attended a Baptist Seminary. (Very different from what you know as seminary). In my studies I focused mostly on catholocism and MUCH more so on mormonism. I became involved with an organization called Concerned Christians which are Christians who have left the LDS church for one reason or another.

Anyway, I believe I gained quite a bit of knowledge on the LDS church as it pertains to the Bible and Christianity. I have debated several Elders and Bishops of your church. Not in a formal setting, but mostly one-on-one. (Or 2 on one when the mormon bikers showed up)

Anyway, I thought I would be honest with you and give you some background and where I will be coming from in my questions. I will try to give examples and quote your own literature and church writings as well as from the KJV Bible (The only one you folks think is the correct one) out of respect. In return, I expect honest and researched answers to my comments. Fair enough?

It's late right now and I have other work I need to get done before I address some of your statements that started this thread. I will do so as soon as I can. BTW, I'm not doing this to tear you or your beliefs apart and I hope you have the same intent.. Nobody will win this because this won't be win or lose. Just information and questions... (Hey, if one of us converts the other, then that'll be a bonus huh?)

Peace out
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:56:38 PM EDT
Mormans have their own bible they is special
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:06:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 9:42:54 PM EDT by Az_Redneck]

Originally Posted By billy_bob:
Mormans have their own bible they is special



Dude, you need to chill... Who said they have their own bible? I said in my post that they only use the KJV Bible... Do you know what KJV means?

It's the King James Version. My wife reads the New King James Version because it has less thee's and thou's

Chill bro and let some good conversation come out of this. Read for a while and maybe you'll learn something... Either that, or VA-Gunnut is gonna take you out to the woodshed and tar your fanny with the Mod button
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:07:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By cyclone:
Thanks for the answer Shane, and here is another............I have heard this before from people, so I will ask you..........A "belief" that Mormons will rise to a level equal with GOD, and rule planets other than Earth.........again, I have heard people talk about these ideas, and these arent my own.



You aren't the first to ask this question, and you won't be the last to bring it up.

To properly answer you, I will have to give a little background:

We believe that mankind is the literal offspring of God.  We are His literal spiritual children and lived with God before coming to earth.  We grew and progressed spiritually.  However, to continue our eternal progression it became necessary for us to receive a body and be tested.  Therefore, our spirits come to earth to receive a body and to be tested.  At the heart of it all is the Atonement that our eldest brother, Jesus Christ/Jehovah, would perform on our behalf.

So we are here to be tested, but then we must ask, "why?"  Answer:  To see if we can continue progressing.  After this life, if we have proven faithful, we may continue progressing to become like our Father in Heaven.  As his literal children, we have that potential within us.

Some would argue that such claims are blasphemous.  We believe that to reject this idea is to fail to understand our true standing with our Father in Heaven, and therefore our very selves.

Yes, I will provide some citation for this.  



According to the word of God  - the King James Bible  (which Mormons claim to believe) it is blasphemy:

2Ki 19:15 And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest [between] the cherubims, thou art the God, [even] thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

Ne 9:6 Thou, [even] thou, [art] LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all [things] that [are] therein, the seas, and all that [is] therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Ps 86:10 For thou [art] great, and doest wondrous things: thou [art] God alone.

Ps 148:13 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory [is] above the earth and heaven.

Isa 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest [between] the cherubims, thou [art] the God, [even] thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;Mr 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

There is ONE GOD.   Mormonism teaches and unlimited number of gods.  Mormonism teaches that man can attain godhood.

Such was the promise of Satan in the garden.  Eve fell for the deception.

Mormons have an ultimate goal.  That goal is not to have a relationship with THE true and living God, but rather to become gods themselves.

Mormonism is anything but Christian.

And they certainly DO NOT worship the Jesus of the Bible.

From the mouth of Gordon Hinckley himself:

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He, together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages."

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:36:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 8:37:37 PM EDT by FightingHellfish]

Originally Posted By Ky_Bob:

Originally Posted By billy_bob:
WELL Sane the n mormans are trying to buy all the land they can here in texas an force their beliefes down our throat but its not going to happen



Have you been drinking and posting?!?


Bob



There is a cult like off shoot of the LDS ( the FLDS)  that is located in REMOTE country in Arizona just south of the Utah line.  These people started off as a splinter of the Mormons who refused to give up polygamy in 1890, since then they have become a really crazy, paranoid cult with lots of scary communal beliefs and a dictatorship style leadership.

Arizona and Utah have been busting their nuts about forced child marriage lately, so they  bought some remote land in West Texas and are building a new base of operations.

Perhaps billy_bob ha ssome confusion about these people.  Or maybe he's just a major numb nuts.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:42:49 PM EDT
Six Morman truths

1.  All  "Christian" Churches except Mormons are  in  error,  all abominations before God.
2.  The Bible is at best, a weak source of truth. It is in  error and it's teachings about salvation are in error.
3. We must each earn our own salvation.
4. We can become Gods.
5.  God  was once a man but progressed into Godhood. So  did  our Heavenly Mother.
6. All is known because God sent a prophet in these latter days.

#1 is acceptable, ours is best argument.  But true Christians beleive Jesus is God=that is the Biblical test of false religion, and it's in the Morman King James, if they didn't delete it.
#2  They came up with a spare Bible, guess God isn't good enough.
#3 Jesus died for our sins, our works are as filthy rags.  They say Jesus died for the sins of Adam.
#4  See the first Comandment=then repent.
#5  God is man =I and the Father are one.  In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.
#6  The Prophets carry God's word, they don't make things up and replace God's word.

The whole Bible is all about one thing-Jesus.  He is the only way to salvation, none come to the Father accept through me.  We can do nothing, the price was paid on the cross.  It is so easy, beleive and repent.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:58:33 PM EDT
What's teh deal with the gold tablets and the special glasses to find them?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:34:31 PM EDT
Dude, you need to chill... Who said they have their own bible? I said in my post that they only use the KJV Bible... Do you know what KJV means?

It's the King James Version. My wife reads the New King James Version because it has less thee's and thou's

Chill bro and let some goon conversation come out of this. Read for a while and maybe you'll learn something... Either that, or VA-Gunnut is gonna take you out to the woodshed and tar your fanny with the Mod button                                                                                                                                               whats the book of mormon then?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:39:48 PM EDT
they advertise the book of latter day saints  on tv here all the time its your own addition to  the bible ,its bs
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:18:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By billy_bob:
they advertise the book of latter day saints  on tv here all the time its your own addition to  the bible ,its bs



Misconception #4 in my initial post.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:20:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By marko16:
Six Morman truths

1.  All  "Christian" Churches except Mormons are  in  error,  all abominations before God.
2.  The Bible is at best, a weak source of truth. It is in  error and it's teachings about salvation are in error.
3. We must each earn our own salvation.
4. We can become Gods.
5.  God  was once a man but progressed into Godhood. So  did  our Heavenly Mother.
6. All is known because God sent a prophet in these latter days.

#1 is acceptable, ours is best argument.  But true Christians beleive Jesus is God=that is the Biblical test of false religion, and it's in the Morman King James, if they didn't delete it.
#2  They came up with a spare Bible, guess God isn't good enough.
#3 Jesus died for our sins, our works are as filthy rags.  They say Jesus died for the sins of Adam.
#4  See the first Comandment=then repent.
#5  God is man =I and the Father are one.  In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God.
#6  The Prophets carry God's word, they don't make things up and replace God's word.

The whole Bible is all about one thing-Jesus.  He is the only way to salvation, none come to the Father accept through me.  We can do nothing, the price was paid on the cross.  It is so easy, beleive and repent.



You have an agenda and a point to make.  I'm not addressing your remarks.  If Shane does that's up to him.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:03:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 4:27:57 AM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:46:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:59:14 AM EDT
Read "Under the Banner of Heaven". Although it is about Mormon fundamentalist, it tells the history of the church.
link
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:01:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:46:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 7:13:12 AM EDT by criley]

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:

Originally Posted By criley:


There is ONE GOD.   Mormonism teaches and unlimited number of gods.  Mormonism teaches that man can attain godhood.

Such was the promise of Satan in the garden.  Eve fell for the deception.

Mormons have an ultimate goal.  That goal is not to have a relationship with THE true and living God, but rather to become gods themselves.

Mormonism is anything but Christian.

And they certainly DO NOT worship the Jesus of the Bible.

From the mouth of Gordon Hinckley himself:

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He, together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages."





It is quite obvious that you dislike Mormons. If you aren't going to contribute to the discussion, then please stay out of it.

I would rather learn about Mormons from Mormons, then from those who dispise them for some reason.

If you have a question, then ask it. This thread is not for you attack other members or members of LDS.



You have to be one of the worst moderators in the history of this site.  (Now, THIS is a PERSONAL criticism of you and your actions. It is not an attack, although you might be tempted to call it that.  It is a personal opinion based on how you have handled yourself in these discusions)

But pertaining to Mormons?  I have attacked NO ONE.

Do you understand that?  You accused me of making PERSONAL ATTACKS AGAINST INDIVIDUALS.

You are completely and utterly WRONG.

What I HAVE done is stated FACTS about Mormonism, and cited the statements of MORMON LEADERS to do that.

I do not dislike Mormons, I dislike Mormon-ISM.

You might be incapable of distinguishing the difference.

The earlier discussion in another thread of the Mormon doctrine of blood atonement was started by someone else.  I commented and stated, USING BRIGHAM YOUNG'S own words to prove that the doctrine was established by a Mormon leader.   Because I stated that some Mormon apologist called me a troll.  You blindly jumped on the bandwagon.

That is  standard operating procedure for Mormon apologists.  

It should not be so for forum moderators.

NOW another Mormon apologist comes along and tries to dispel Mormon "misconceptions."  In his discussion he discussed the Mormon doctrine that men may become gods themselves and says that some claim it is blasphemy.

I show from the Bible that it is indeed blasphemous.

He also states that Mormons worship the same Jesus.

I then show from their CURRENT LEADER, Gordon Hinckley, that they DO NOT WORSHIP the same Jesus.

HINCKLEY said that, and I QUOTED HIM.

I was ENTIRELY ON TOPIC discussing the points that the Mormon apologist brought up.

I did so WITHOUT ANY PERSONAL ATTACK TO THIS MORMON APOLOGIST WHATSOEVER.





It seems to be apparent that the only thing you will allow is for a Mormon to state their position, and allow no contrary discussion.

If you did this in any other forum, say discussing the pros and cons of COLTS vs other mfgs.....  And you only allow nice, flowery comments about Colts, BUT NOT ANY FACTUAL CRTICISM, you would not last long as a mod, or this site would not last long.

When someone criticizes Bushmaster for not testing every barrel and every bolt the same way Colt does - that cannot be construed as a personal attack against those who own Bushies.  And by the same token, when someone is critical of the high price Colt charges, or for Colt's politics....THAT is not a personal attack against Colt owners, either.

You need to wake up, man.

You need to allow a contrary point of view in these threads, or you need to resign.

If you can show me where I attacked anyone personally,  please be my guest.

Of course you will not be able to do that, because I have attacked   N-O     O-N-E.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:47:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By billy_bob:
excuse my spelling but you need to keep your pagan religion in utah



What about NY?  What about Illinois?  What about Missouri?  We were there before we were in Utah.  Oh, don't forget the fact that members of the LDS Church settled most of Idaho, Arizona, Nevada, parts of California, etc.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:52:45 AM EDT
tagged for later.

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:55:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 7:01:18 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Wow, this sure has brought the paranoiacs out of the woodwork, hasn't it?  


EVERY religion teaches that IT and IT ALONE is the one way to the Pearly Gates.

EVERY STINKING ONE OF THEM.

I am SO reminded of Dr. Seuss' Sneetches.  



That is incorrect.

The Biblical test of Christianity is faith in Jesus Christ as The Son of The Living God, who became flesh through the virgin birth, who was crucified as a substitutionary sacrifice on the cross of Calvary and who was raised on the third day.

The Bible never says for a moment that religion is the way into the pearly gates. It proclaims that Christ and Christ alone is The Way, The Truth, and The Life. To some that may sound like no difference at all, but careful study will reveal that there is a difference.

My church, for instance, does not teach that Methodists or Catholics or Episcopalians cannot be saved. The Church is defined by my denomination as a universal body of people whose faith is in Christ and His attoning work, even if other parts of their doctrine do not align perfectly with ours. Our church takes this position because it is the Biblical position. There are people I vehemently disagree with about matters of doctrine and scripture, and yet I will see them in heaven one day because their faith, even though imperfect, is solidly in Christ and His atonement. Their lives are marked by Christian service and their hearts filled with love for the saints.

The matters we disagree on will one day be resolved, for now we see as though through a glass darkly, but then we will see face to face, and all questions will be answered.



MormonComputerZ,  you can tell the truth to these paranoiacs all you want to,  the worst of them
STILL would rather believe the garbage they've been spoon fed about Mormons since childhood,
garbage fed to them by people who ALSO don't know.



Whether you believe it or not, there are in fact solid doctrinal grounds upon which to object to Mormon ideas. Their fundamental understanding of the nature of God, for instance, is not supported by the systematic theology of The Bible.

The appeal to the Book of Mormon, which is claimed to have equal Divinely Inspired authority as the works of The Bible, is one that can be objected to on Biblical grounds.

There are legitimate theological criticisms that can be made purely out of an exegetical sense and not merely out of prejudice or ignorance.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:06:41 AM EDT
Well, it looks like Criley is on his personal warpath again.  Yes, he definately has an agenda.  No, I've already decided not to respond to him.  I'll direct my responses to the more sincere posters on this forum.

Give me a few minutes to pull together the citation I promised earlier.

Oh, as to the KJV of the Bible, AZ_Redneck, I wouldn't really say that Mormons consider it to be the only correct version.  There might be more correct translations out there.

However, it was selected to be the Biblical standard for the Church in english.  Why?  Church leaders obviously have a good level of confidence in this translation.  Also, it is very helpful for a worldwide religion to have an established canon of scripture to refer to.  Can you imagine teaching something from the Bible and every church member in the room has a different version?  Imagine the confusion.  It helps significantly when every member is reading the same words when a scripture is cited.

Also, the King James Bible isn't the only one used by the LDS Church.  For example, in spanish we use the Reina Valera translation.  I believe this spanish translation is commonly used by the Catholic Church as well.  In other languages we'd used whatever translation we felt to be most appropriate as well.

So basically, it boils down to consistancy.  In english the KJV has been chosen for a standard of consistancy.

I know there has been confusion on this issue.  In high school I remember another member of the LDS Church erroneously commenting that we didn't accept some version of the Bible an evangelical was handing out.  Fortunately my parents understood better and taught me better.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:11:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By criley:

.



Criley,

CALM DOWN

Don't get this thread locked - or your account.

You know how I feel about this subject - very similar to your own feelings.

But I respect our mormon freinds' right to their beliefs - and know that discussing them civilly is the only way to accomplish anything here.


Calm down, man.

Check your temper at the door and this thread can go 40 pages.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:21:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 7:27:45 AM EDT by criley]

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By criley:

.



Criley,

CALM DOWN

Don't get this thread locked - or your account.

You know how I feel about this subject - very similar to your own feelings.

But I respect our mormon freinds' right to their beliefs - and know that discussing them civilly is the only way to accomplish anything here.


Calm down, man.

Check your temper at the door and this thread can go 40 pages.



What are you talking about?

Since when did I say Mormons have no right to believe what they want to believe?

Just where did I supposedly lose my temper and say something I should not have said?

Where did I make a personal attack against a Mormon?

People worship at the altar of FEELINGS.

Sorry, I don't do that.  I don't wear my feelings on my sleeve.  I make no attempt to hurt another's feelings.

But if stating simple truth directly and plainly does hurt someone's feelings, well, perhaps that is how the saying came about:

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Some of you folks are like the woman who is suing her doctor because the doctor was so "hateful" that he had the audacity to tell the woman she was overweight and needed to diet for her health.

Your kind of thinking is why this nation is in the terrible shape it is in.

Critical thinking is out.

Feelings are in.

Dare to criticize homosexual activity based on facts?  Why you are a homophobe.  You are insensitive.

Dare to criticize Affirmative Action?  You are a bigot - a racist of the worst order.

The list goes on and on.

And of course, the list is not complete without religion.  Dare to criticize religion and the same adjectives are heaped upon you.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:29:57 AM EDT
The Book of Mormon promotes the existence of great ancient cities in North America. No archeological evidence has ever been produced to corroborate the existence of these cities.

Whereas, the Holy Bible is generally published with a cartographic reference to the locations which are referred to within. Whether it's anecdotes in non-biblical writings, or artifacts, even ancient cities referred to within the Bible which no longer exist have some level of archaeological evidence to support their existence.

Is the LDS church ever going to publish a map which pinpoints the location of these cities?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:31:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By criley:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By criley:

.



Criley,

CALM DOWN

Don't get this thread locked - or your account.

You know how I feel about this subject - very similar to your own feelings.

But I respect our mormon freinds' right to their beliefs - and know that discussing them civilly is the only way to accomplish anything here.


Calm down, man.

Check your temper at the door and this thread can go 40 pages.



What are you talking about?

Since when did I say Mormons have no right to believe what they want to believe?

Just where did I supposedly lose my temper and say something I should not have said?

Where did I make a personal attack against a Mormon?

People worship at the altar of FEELINGS.

Sorry, I don't do that.  I don't wear my feelings on my sleeve.  I make no attempt to hurt another's feelings.

But if stating simple truth directly and plainly does hurt someone's feelings, well, perhaps that is how the saying came about:

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Some of you folks are like the woman who is suing her doctor because the doctor was so "hateful" that he had the audacity to tell the woman she was overweight and needed to diet for her health.

Your kind of thinking is why this nation is in the terrible shape it is in.

Critical thinking is out.

Feelings are in.

Dare to criticize homosexual activity based on facts?  Why you are a homophobe.  You are insensitive.

Dare to criticize Affirmative Action?  You are a bigot - a racist of the worst order.

The list goes on and on.

And of course, the list is not complete without religion.  Dare to criticize religion and the same adjectives are heaped upon you.



Criley,

let me tell you a secret.

I know Va-gunnut is trying to do a good job - but despite that, I think his moderation is skewed towards mormonism, just like you do.

But complaining about it won't do any good.

Remember, we're the 'bad guys' here - we have no formal redress for our greivances anymore. So the only thing you can do in threads like this is make one point at a time.

For instance, you could have asked the mormons to clarify their teachings about families lasting forever, or about becoming gods in the afterlife.

You could have then showed them where such beliefs conflict with Scripture.

Try that approach.

One point at a time.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:37:08 AM EDT
Scriptural citation:

Our relation to God the Father:
Psalms 82:6  --  "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."


Matthew 5:48  -- "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."


John 10:33-34     The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

(Interesting that Jesus himself here not only indicates his own divinity, but ours as well.)


Romans 8:16-17   "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."



John 3:2  "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How interesting that the Bible teaches us that we are not only sons of God, but also heirs and joint heirs with Christ.  Even more specific, the scriptures state, on more than one occasion, that we are gods as the children of God.  Hmmm...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Our relation with Jesus:
Jesus is our Messiah and Savior--there's so much scripture to indicate this that I don't know if more citation is needed at this point.

John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

(This is an incredibly beautiful scripture.  First it is beautiful to imagine Mary Magdalene and what it would have been like for her to see her Lord and Savior in the midst of her mourning.  Oh what joy she must have felt.  Secondly, it is beautiful in that it so clearly states our relationship with Jesus and the Father.  Jesus is our literal brother, and as our eldest brother he gave himself as an offering on our behalf.)

There you go.  I even limited my citations to the Bible for those who will accept no other source.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:38:22 AM EDT

Latter-day Saints read, study, and teach from The King James Version of the Holy Bible. They also read, study, and teach from The Book of Mormon. We believe both books to be the word of God.



The Book of Mormom is NOT the word of God.  You believe it because you were TOLD to believe it.  It was written by a MAN, NOT inspired by God.  Most "cults" function this way.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:40:18 AM EDT
Va-gunnut's mod-ing is skewed towards Mormonism?!!!!  

Hardly, or many more people would have had their hands slapped by now.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:42:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CPUFed:

Latter-day Saints read, study, and teach from The King James Version of the Holy Bible. They also read, study, and teach from The Book of Mormon. We believe both books to be the word of God.



The Book of Mormom is NOT the word of God.  You believe it because you were TOLD to believe it.  It was written by a MAN, NOT inspired by God.  Most "cults" function this way.



That's a very interesting statement.  I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God because I've read it, prayed about it, and the Lord has confirmed to me that it is the word of God.  Same way I know the Bible to be the word of God.

Out of curiosity, how do you, CPUFed, know the Bible to be the word of God?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:48:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By billy_bob:
excuse my spelling but you need to keep your pagan religion in utah



Pagan isn't the correct word, Paganism implies belief/worship in multiple gods and Mormons apparently worship the Christian God.  I happen to be Pagan, which is why I'd know.   flame away
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:56:16 AM EDT
Ok, no one answered my question about the gold tablets and the special glasses, so I googled around a bit.

I found this:

linky to story about mormonism

which mentions a few things, like that Joseph Smith died in a shootout:

Quote:
The final irony of Joseph Smith's life came in the story of his death. The Mormon Church pronounces him a martyr, sealing the testimony of the Book of Mormon with his blood. Yet truth, and Mormon history, tells another story. By 1844, Joseph already claimed 27 'Celestial' wives, by Church count, and 48 by Historian Fawn Brodie's count.4 Always on the lookout for more, he finally provoked leading men within the Church to take action.

Austin Cowles, first Counselor to the Church at Nauvoo, and William Law, Smith's second Counselor, published charges (of heresy, adultery and fornication) against Joseph Smith in the Nauvoo Expositor.5 Joseph destroyed the press, and charges were filed against him in Carthage, Illinois, the nearest community having non-Mormon officials. At first, Joseph fled and hid, but was convinced to return at his wife's pleading, by Porter Rockwell, his bodyguard, and was arrested.

Joseph was in the second floor of the jail, with visiting friends and without a locked door. After members of his own militia retired to their homes for the night, a mob formed outside, shouting insults. As some of the mob came up the narrow stairwell, Joseph discharged his pistol into their midst, killing two men and wounding a third. He and his brother, Hyrum, were killed in the exchange of gunfire.6

Under no circumstance can Joseph Smith be described as a martyr, sealing his testimony of the Book of Mormon with blood. He died in a gunfight, in a tragic ending caused by his own carnal, sinful use of other men's wives. Stephen was a martyr. He knelt down as he was killed, crying "Father, forgive them!" (Acts 7:60).

Who are men to follow? Jesus Christ, the Alpha and Omega, who said "...Before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), or Joseph Smith, the man who said, "I have more to boast of than any man had--neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I."7

End Quote

The footnotes are from LDS, History of the Church, according to the writer.

I know nothing about the LDS, except for the deal about the year's worth of food part.
I'm not trolling, I'm just asking....
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:04:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DarkKnight:
Ok, no one answered my question about the gold tablets and the special glasses, so I googled around a bit.

I found this:

linky to story about mormonism

which mentions a few things, like that Joseph Smith died in a shootout:

Quote:
The final irony of Joseph Smith's life came in the story of his death. The Mormon Church pronounces him a martyr, sealing the testimony of the Book of Mormon with his blood. Yet truth, and Mormon history, tells another story. By 1844, Joseph already claimed 27 'Celestial' wives, by Church count, and 48 by Historian Fawn Brodie's count.4 Always on the lookout for more, he finally provoked leading men within the Church to take action.

Austin Cowles, first Counselor to the Church at Nauvoo, and William Law, Smith's second Counselor, published charges (of heresy, adultery and fornication) against Joseph Smith in the Nauvoo Expositor.5 Joseph destroyed the press, and charges were filed against him in Carthage, Illinois, the nearest community having non-Mormon officials. At first, Joseph fled and hid, but was convinced to return at his wife's pleading, by Porter Rockwell, his bodyguard, and was arrested.

Joseph was in the second floor of the jail, with visiting friends and without a locked door. After members of his own militia retired to their homes for the night, a mob formed outside, shouting insults. As some of the mob came up the narrow stairwell, Joseph discharged his pistol into their midst, killing two men and wounding a third. He and his brother, Hyrum, were killed in the exchange of gunfire.6

Under no circumstance can Joseph Smith be described as a martyr, sealing his testimony of the Book of Mormon with blood. He died in a gunfight, in a tragic ending caused by his own carnal, sinful use of other men's wives. Stephen was a martyr. He knelt down as he was killed, crying "Father, forgive them!" (Acts 7:60).

Who are men to follow? Jesus Christ, the Alpha and Omega, who said "...Before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), or Joseph Smith, the man who said, "I have more to boast of than any man had--neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I."7

End Quote

The footnotes are from LDS, History of the Church, according to the writer.

I know nothing about the LDS, except for the deal about the year's worth of food part.
I'm not trolling, I'm just asking....



DarkKnight,

Your citation is such a quagmire of mixed fact and lie (not yours) that I don't know how I would even start sorting it out.

I can tell you this, Joseph Smith did use a Urim and Thumim in the translation of the Book of Mormon.  A Urim and Thumim is also mentioned in Exodus 28, but would have been a different Urim and Thumim than used by Joseph Smith.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:12:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 8:37:02 AM EDT by VA-gunnut]

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By CPUFed:

Latter-day Saints read, study, and teach from The King James Version of the Holy Bible. They also read, study, and teach from The Book of Mormon. We believe both books to be the word of God.



The Book of Mormom is NOT the word of God.  You believe it because you were TOLD to believe it.  It was written by a MAN, NOT inspired by God.  Most "cults" function this way.



That's a very interesting statement.  I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God because I've read it, prayed about it, and the Lord has confirmed to me that it is the word of God.  Same way I know the Bible to be the word of God.

Out of curiosity, how do you, CPUFed, know the Bible to be the word of God?



I'll tell you that as soon as you tell me how God "confirmed" to you that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.  If you had a "vision" similar to Joseph Smith, I'm not buying it.  Also, the Mormons believe Christ was a "good" man.  Christians believe Him to be the Son of God.  The Book of Mormon and the KJV of the Bible do NOT go hand in hand.  ***Edited<va-gunnut>*** I find it strange that the Bible never mentioned the book of Joseph Smith.  Wouldn't you think that if it is also the word of God, it would have been mentioned before Joseph Smith "found" it?  I believe the KJV is the most accurate version of the Bible available to us.  It was translated from the original text (1611).  The Bible can stand alone.  The book of Mormon only adds confusion to perfection.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:23:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CPUFed:

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By CPUFed:

Latter-day Saints read, study, and teach from The King James Version of the Holy Bible. They also read, study, and teach from The Book of Mormon. We believe both books to be the word of God.



The Book of Mormom is NOT the word of God.  You believe it because you were TOLD to believe it.  It was written by a MAN, NOT inspired by God.  Most "cults" function this way.



That's a very interesting statement.  I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God because I've read it, prayed about it, and the Lord has confirmed to me that it is the word of God.  Same way I know the Bible to be the word of God.

Out of curiosity, how do you, CPUFed, know the Bible to be the word of God?



I'll tell you that as soon as you tell me how God "confirmed" to you that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.  If you had a "vision" similar to Joseph Smith, I'm not buying it.  Also, the Mormons believe Christ was a "good" man.  Christians believe Him to be the Son of God.  The Book of Mormom and the KJV of the Bible do NOT go hand in hand.  I don't mean to be insulting, but the Mormon religion is nothing more than a cult, a very rich and powerful cult however.  I find it strange that the Bible never mentioned the book of Joseph Smith.  Wouldn't you think that if it is also the word of God, it would have been mentioned before Joseph Smith "found" it?  I believe the KJV is the most accurate version of the Bible available to us.  It was translated from the original text (1611).  The Bible can stand alone.  The book of Mormon only adds confusion to perfection.



It is interesting in how you not only dodged my question, but instead used your response as another opportunity to slander the "Mormon religion."  Please explain how the LDS Church is a "powerful cult"?  How does the Book of Mormon add confusion?  You've made a lot of accusations, and personally I don't understand the rancor you harbor.

The Lord confirmed the truth to me by the feelings in my heart.  It's awefully personal, but I felt a calmness and assurance in my heart that the Bible and Book of Mormon are true.  I experience a clarity in my thoughts when I carefully study the scriptures.

If God wanted to, he could have visited me with a vision, but it wasn't necessary.  Who am I to demand such things and tempt God?  If He had come and visited me in a personal vision, it would make no difference whether you accepted it or not.  Personal revelation is, by definition, personal.  I only claim what I know for myself.

Now, could you please answer my question?  It really isn't a complicated question.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:35:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By CPUFed:

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By CPUFed:

Latter-day Saints read, study, and teach from The King James Version of the Holy Bible. They also read, study, and teach from The Book of Mormon. We believe both books to be the word of God.



The Book of Mormom is NOT the word of God.  You believe it because you were TOLD to believe it.  It was written by a MAN, NOT inspired by God.  Most "cults" function this way.



That's a very interesting statement.  I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God because I've read it, prayed about it, and the Lord has confirmed to me that it is the word of God.  Same way I know the Bible to be the word of God.

Out of curiosity, how do you, CPUFed, know the Bible to be the word of God?



I'll tell you that as soon as you tell me how God "confirmed" to you that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.  If you had a "vision" similar to Joseph Smith, I'm not buying it.  Also, the Mormons believe Christ was a "good" man.  Christians believe Him to be the Son of God.  The Book of Mormom and the KJV of the Bible do NOT go hand in hand.  I don't mean to be insulting, but the Mormon religion is nothing more than a cult, a very rich and powerful cult however.  I find it strange that the Bible never mentioned the book of Joseph Smith.  Wouldn't you think that if it is also the word of God, it would have been mentioned before Joseph Smith "found" it?  I believe the KJV is the most accurate version of the Bible available to us.  It was translated from the original text (1611).  The Bible can stand alone.  The book of Mormon only adds confusion to perfection.



It is interesting in how you not only dodged my question, but instead used your response as another opportunity to slander the "Mormon religion."  Please explain how the LDS Church is a "powerful cult"?  How does the Book of Mormon add confusion?  You've made a lot of accusations, and personally I don't understand the rancor you harbor.

The Lord confirmed the truth to me by the feelings in my heart.  It's awefully personal, but I felt a calmness and assurance in my heart that the Bible and Book of Mormon are true.  I experience a clarity in my thoughts when I carefully study the scriptures.

If God wanted to, he could have visited me with a vision, but it wasn't necessary.  Who am I to demand such things and tempt God?  If He had come and visited me in a personal vision, it would make no difference whether you accepted it or not.  Personal revelation is, by definition, personal.  I only claim what I know for myself.

Now, could you please answer my question?  It really isn't a complicated question.



First of all, God can't be tempted by you or anyone else.  If you think He can, you have more issues than I realized.  You and the LDS folks don't control God.  If I were you, I would seriously consider re-checking my salvation since Satan can also visit in a personal vision if your heart doesn't belong to God.  And I did answer your question.  "I believe the KJV is the most accurate version of the Bible available to us.  It was translated from the original text (1611).  The Bible can stand alone. "  The book of "Smith" adds confusion by NOT being the Word of God.  Simple enough to understand that.  I would think that God Himself would have mentioned it to one of the disciples if indeed He thought it was His word, don't you??  Or are you saying God just forgot about that part of His word and when He remembered, Joseph Smith was there to receive it?  Do some research on cults and you might be surprised how many similarities you find with the LDS folks.
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