Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
User Panel

Posted: 11/11/2009 6:27:58 AM EDT
This did not get any love in GD.

Deputy Chief and Captain at a neighboring department leaked test answers and didn't lose their jobs. HUGE uproar over this.

Discus....

Cheating Firefighters
Link Posted: 11/11/2009 7:37:16 AM EDT
[#1]
Strawn getting booted all the way to the back of the engine is a huge demotion, and an increadible pay cut.  Plus I can imagine this impacting both of their future promotion possibilites.
Link Posted: 11/11/2009 7:42:18 AM EDT
[#2]
They will probably never be promoted again... at least Strawn won't.

What I do not understand is that Strawn lied numerous times in the investigation and was still allowed to keep his job. Being a good firefighter does not condone that type of activity. ESPECIALLY when you are 2nd in charge of the department.

I wonder where they are going to ride on the trucks. Hydrant seat! haha
Link Posted: 11/11/2009 8:20:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
They will probably never be promoted again... at least Strawn won't.

What I do not understand is that Strawn lied numerous times in the investigation and was still allowed to keep his job. Being a good firefighter does not condone that type of activity. ESPECIALLY when you are 2nd in charge of the department.

I wonder where they are going to ride on the trucks. Hydrant seat! haha


You mean make 'em hold on to the bumper?  
Link Posted: 11/11/2009 5:12:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Years ago I took the test for Suffolk County Police here on Long Island. They make well over six figures. Scored an almost perfect score and they threw the results out because the answers got leaked. Sooooo pissed about that one.
Link Posted: 11/12/2009 8:14:14 AM EDT
[#5]
This used to be fairly common.
Link Posted: 11/12/2009 11:07:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 11/13/2009 4:13:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Anyone I ever heard of that got caught doing this got fired.
Link Posted: 11/13/2009 5:13:32 AM EDT
[#8]
In my opinion, they should have been terminated. As leaders they are expected to have honesty and integrity, and they have none.

Link Posted: 11/14/2009 9:54:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Just a few years ago, this was normal.
I am not so sure it isn't still done to some extent.

This is what we refer to here as "Juice".
"He got juiced on",
"Who was your juice ?",
"He's got juice? ...................

The term has many meanings: but basically it means you had help getting on from somebody, in some form. You knew somebody and they helped you in some way. The help can take many forms. It might be that your dad is a firefighter and knows everybody doing the testing. It might be that you have a lot of friends that are on the department: maybe you went to school with them or something. It might mean that your dad is a very influential man in the community and he made some phone calls. It might mean that you belong to some group that, let's say,  would be PC to hire from. It might mean that you were working on another department and the command staff from your old department knows the command staff of your new department and they put in a good word for you. You might belong to a certain religion and go to church with guys on the department who give you a little push in the right direction. You might work out at the gym that a lot of firefighters go to and you get to know them.........................

Again, the "help" could be anything from a word dropped into someone's ear up to........................who knows.

Back when I got on the job, when hazing was common, it was a given that at some point in the academy, you were going to be stood up in front of the cadre and grilled about who your juice was. They put you in a no-win situation and it is usually hillarious to watch. They ask you who your juice was. You lie and tell them that you didn't have any juice. Then they say, "Oh, so they hired you because you are such an outstanding individual (or something to that effect). You know if you say yes that they will fuck you with you endlessly about your saying you are great so you deny that................. All the while they cadre has done their homework and they know who your juice is so they know you are lying. It is bad form to rat out your juice so you lie about it, then they mess with you for lying about it..................
Used to be SOP. Now of course this "hazing" would result in a lawsuit so it was stopped years ago.


FWIW: I have no idea if this is as common as it once was. But, I am sure it still goes on at some level.


This is why people shouldn't bitch about Affirmative Action, the above SOP is why it we have it.


Link Posted: 11/14/2009 2:39:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
While we're all familiar with the "comprehensive review" that takes place towards the end of many state classes, that's a whole different beast than actually giving candidates the answers and questions, particularly if they were playing favorites.

They're damn lucky they still have jobs - If I were Chief I'd have taken them to the board for termination.


Appearantly my sister was at the top end of the test these knuckleheads got thrown out.
Link Posted: 11/14/2009 4:50:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 11/14/2009 6:08:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Edit
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 6:01:03 PM EDT
[#13]
2 Omaha firefighters pulled into test probe
Two Omaha firefighters are accused of helping Papillion firefighter candidates cheat on tests, according to a confidential report obtained by The World-Herald.

One of the Omaha firefighters admitted to being involved. His explanation in the report raises questions about whether Omaha firefighters cheat in order to help friends and relatives get Omaha firefighting jobs.

The Omaha firefighter quoted in the report called the practice of helping relatives and friends become firefighters a part of the culture of the firefighting “brotherhood.”

A longtime City of Omaha official denied that cheating happens in Omaha.

“I tell you, that does not happen here,” said Tom Marfisi, the city's director of human resources. “I don't have any knowledge of anything like that.”

Marfisi said he didn't think it was possible for test questions and answers to be leaked to Omaha firefighter candidates, as happened in Papillion.

Still, in response to The World-Herald's reporting, Marfisi said he will investigate whether cheating has been going on in the Omaha department and also will look into any roles Omaha firefighters may have played in the Papillion scandal.

“We do not have a copy of the report at this point, and we have asked (Papillion) for a copy of the report, and once we get it, we will do an investigation of our own,” said Omaha Fire Chief Mike McDonnell.

McDonnell said he could not comment further until he has read the report.

Marfisi, who oversees police and fire hiring because of City of Omaha ordinances, said that under his 23-year watch, the city has maintained strict policies, security measures and safeguards to ensure a fair hiring process.

Omaha firefighters do not have access to the actual test questions in advance, though a few command-level Omaha firefighters offer input on the testing process, Marfisi said. The test is based on one put together by a national company for use by fire departments throughout the country and is revised regularly.

In response to the cheating scandal, Papillion banned four firefighter candidates from being hired there. The city also demoted two top-ranking Papillion firefighters, Capt. Matt Sullivan and Deputy Chief Jeff “Boomer” Strawn, to the rank of entry-level firefighter for leaking to candidates some test questions and the best ways to answer them.

Papillion Fire Chief Bill Bowes also urged his city's civil service commission to not allow Papillion or Omaha firefighters to help oversee the next round of screening and panelist interviews.

According to the Papillion report, Omaha Firefighter Rob Herman, who was chosen by the Papillion fire chief to serve on a hiring panel, is accused of leaking test questions and key points to include in answers, along with another Omaha firefighter, Jim McNew, who was not on the panel.

Herman did not return numerous calls from The World-Herald requesting comment. McNew declined to comment.

McNew was interviewed during Papillion's internal affairs probe. According to the confidential report, McNew said that he twice received test questions and answers to pass on to Papillion firefighter candidate Andrew Lomax.

McNew told Papillion Police Sgt. Kevin Covi, who conducted the investigation and wrote the report, that helping candidates was an accepted practice. Covi said he was not authorized to comment on his investigation.

According to the report, McNew told Covi: “This stuff happens on a daily basis up there” in Omaha.

McNew said someone helped him get hired at the Omaha Fire Department, the report states, and he in turn tried to help a Papillion fire candidate get hired in Papillion.

In the investigative interview, McNew did not say he or others cheated when he was hired as an Omaha firefighter more than a decade ago; simply that helping a candidate train and study is considered acceptable.

In the Papillion case, the investigation found that help went beyond guiding candidates to telling them how to answer certain questions.

The report indicates that Herman passed test questions for an early phase of the hiring process to McNew, who was helping Lomax.

Later, according to the confidential report, after the candidates had been narrowed to a group of 30 finalists, Strawn called McNew and gave him two interview questions for an oral test and the answers needed to meet benchmarks for exceptional responses.

The test questions required detailed responses in front of the panel of interviewers and were intended to gauge the candidate's knowledge of the firefighting profession. Candidates whose answers included predetermined benchmarks were ranked higher, improving their chances of being hired.

McNew said he relayed the questions and answers to Lomax.

“You can't help with the written or physical, but after that a firefighter usually steps in,” McNew told Covi, according to the report.

Bowes, the Papillion fire chief, would not comment on the allegations about Omaha firefighters in the report. He confirmed, though, that Herman served as an interview panelist during the preliminary round of questioning for entry-level candidates.

“If these individuals were showing influence, as was alleged in the investigation, that would come as a surprise to me, and I would be very disappointed,” Bowes said of McNew and Herman.

Bowes said he did not contact Omaha's fire chief about the investigation's results.

Bowes said he has no way of corroborating or disproving McNew's statement that job candidates regularly receive extra help from firefighters in the Omaha Fire Department, where Bowes served as battalion chief until retiring in 2006.

Bowes said he was not aware of any cheating while he worked for the Omaha department, though “I am sure there will always be friends of friends of people who would like to get their foot in the door.”

Bowes vowed not to tolerate cheating in the Papillion Fire Department.

According to the report, cheating was suspected at least once before in the decade that Papillion has been using paid firefighters.

Britteny Morrow Ferrin is head of Morrow & Associates, the Omaha human resources consultant that has guided the Papillion Fire Department hiring process. According to the confidential report, she told Covi during the investigation that she suspected during a 2005 captain promotion test that Strawn, who was then interim fire chief, helped Sullivan cheat.

According to Covi's report, Ferrin said she noticed that Sullivan performed exceptionally well on the test. She suspected that Strawn had leaked test information to Sullivan, the report said.

Strawn had created the questions and was familiar with other aspects of the testing process, the report states.

Strawn told Covi that he did not leak information to Sullivan, but did refer Sullivan to certain chapters, pages and even paragraphs in textbooks.

According to Covi's report, Strawn said that identifying top candidates and taking actions “to propel the best candidate forward” were part of the common practice and culture of the department. Strawn said his actions were not self-motivated but were in the interests of his city, the report stated.

The report quotes Strawn as saying that in Papillion, “If there were valuable candidates during any testing procedure, it was common for them to receive advance questions or unique guidance in order to ensure these candidates placed themselves in position for assignment.”

Covi's report states that Strawn withheld information during the first two of three interviews. By the third interview, Strawn told Covi that he was ready to give more information.

“I am telling everything now, and it's gonna bite me,” Strawn said, according to the report.
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 6:41:15 PM EDT
[#14]
At the least they should get demoted, which is what the article says happened.

Assuming the guys have otherwise been faithful employees, this isn't cause to fire a man and make him loose his career.
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 8:12:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 7:45:36 AM EDT
[#16]
Oh it gets better. Yesterday it came out in the news that two Omaha firefighters were involved in it.

Papillions Deputy Chief at the time called the top four candidates and told them what the questions were and how to turn around and give exceptional answers.
When he was investigated he said "They did this to help propel the best candidates forward"

So a Chief and Captain were demoted because of this. Funny thing is when the Captain was promoted in 2005 the Human Resources company who helps with the process suspected the Chief of helping this Captain more than he should have. What a big mess.

Now if Omaha can get rid of the Nepotism they practice and deny so much it would be a fair process.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 10:18:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Oh it gets better. Yesterday it came out in the news that two Omaha firefighters were involved in it.

Papillions Deputy Chief at the time called the top four candidates and told them what the questions were and how to turn around and give exceptional answers.
When he was investigated he said "They did this to help propel the best candidates forward"

So a Chief and Captain were demoted because of this. Funny thing is when the Captain was promoted in 2005 the Human Resources company who helps with the process suspected the Chief of helping this Captain more than he should have. What a big mess.

Now if Omaha can get rid of the Nepotism they practice and deny so much it would be a fair process.



Stupid games/Stupid Prizes....  Lets face it as much as we may bicker between ourselves (Cops/FF/EMS) we're all equally hated in GD by the same people.
Link Posted: 12/21/2009 12:15:49 PM EDT
[#18]
I've applied twice at Papillion and tested both times.  Both times I did alright on the written, enough to go on however was never able to go on to the PT due to work schedule and an already planned vacation.  

What makes me mad is Marrow and Ass claim the tests are sealed and never opened until the day of the test.  I say that's crap!  I've taken a couple other tests that Marrow was incharge of and each time it was a joke!  I got the letter from Papillion saying that the last test was compromised and that they were retesting.  I will never test at Papillion again due to their practices.  I say Marrow should have a lot of explaining to do as well.  For them to say that the tests are sealed and not known is a lie because we've all taken civil service tests and they should all be different..Wrong!  The first time I took Papillion was before I took Elkhorn and CB and they were both the same test.  I know I answered the same or close too each time and each time I got drastically different answers.  Who knows, I say ban Marrow and go with a test like Lincoln has.  May not be the shortest test but atleast it's fair and honest
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top