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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 6/15/2002 6:26:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 6:45:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 6:52:33 PM EDT
Yes it's only the casing. It was passed when NY enacted the same ban as the feds with regards to assault weapons. Last place I'd ever take advice from would be T&T. As far as how they treat lower receivers with regard to this fingerprinting I'm not sure. And actually come to think of it, I believe fingerprinting only holds for handguns, so, he's really full of it.. :) BuLLet
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:05:40 PM EDT
Are you sure about that? Just last week I had a AR lower and an Eagle Arms complete AR shipped in with no problems. The EA was unfired also. Coincidentally, it was T&T in Floral Park.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:06:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2002 7:08:35 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:20:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2002 7:31:48 PM EDT by Evil_Ed]
yah, only applies to handguns. I had to have that done to the M9 I got. It pissed the State Police off more than it did my FFL :) It's completly useless as a forensic tool, and it does nothing but waste the SP's time (this is according to the SP's who did it)...alas, it's some dork's law, so no one can touch it just yet. Ed [edited, because apparently, was = waste...]
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:20:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChrisLe: Are you sure about that? Just last week I had a AR lower and an Eagle Arms complete AR shipped in with no problems. The EA was unfired also. Coincidentally, it was T&T in Floral Park.
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Ditto. I had 2 Bushy lowers shipped from Bushmaster to the Floral Park T&T. Which one did you get this info from? Seaford or Floral Park. I'd be REALLY surprised if Stan from Floral Park said this to you.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:24:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:39:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: Actually I think that they can match casings to pistols by the markings on the casing from the extractor and chamber area (assuming they are the same). But I wonder how these are cataloged? Not much use to finding a 9mm casing at a scene if there are just piles of 9mm casings at the various CoBIS centers. The legislature originally tried to make the law require a fired bullet be turned over, but fortunately they could not get away with it politically-probably because of the expense. I heard a rumor that the state had even bought bullet catches for this purpose that are sitting around somewhere now-don't know if that's true
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All true, but the reason this is a waste of time is the same reasont he bullet caching was a waste of time: Too many damn casings. :) Now instead of having an original, and hoping to find the pistol that it matches, they now have literally thousands of things to test it against. It'll take *Weeks* to make a match...and in that time, whoever was being held for a crime (assuming the moron was stupid enough to commit a crime with a registered handgun) will walk from lack of evidence, and disappear. I've yet to even *hear* about a person in NY with a legally registered and owned handgun using it for a crime (unless you count self-defense as a crime.) I've no doubt it's happened with some of the dumber members of our population, but still.. Ed
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:43:51 PM EDT
Its a silly law....Revolvers don't leave casings [smoke]
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:46:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 7:52:13 PM EDT
Excellent point about the bad guys using STOLEN guns. What use is ballistic fingerprinting if the gun is stolen? All they can prove then is "yep that bad guy" used a stolen gun [BD]
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 8:31:45 PM EDT
Just for the sake of discussion, if you were dead set on committing a crime with a registered handgun, couldn't you polish or do some slight grinding(not enough to effect performance) to the aforementioned parts so the casing(s) left behind wouldn't match anything in the forensic database? This would be assuming there was no reason to suspect you and the investigation was riding more or less solely on the casing evidence.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 11:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2002 11:40:33 PM EDT by Geachtete]
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 11:23:17 PM EDT
I would just go to the range and pickup a bunch of the relevent cases and throw on the ground. Might as well throw in a few revolver cases etc for good measure.
Link Posted: 6/15/2002 11:45:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 12:02:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 12:55:13 AM EDT
[qoute] I would just go to the range and pickup a bunch of the relevent cases and throw on the ground. Might as well throw in a few revolver cases etc for good measure. [/quote] I agree- I always thought that would be the best way to fubar the forensics-drop a couple of handfulls of brass you picked up at the range.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 4:32:21 AM EDT
The law only applies to NEW pisotols revolvers. Used guns don't have to have the casing turned in. My FFL has to take a trip to a NYS trooper regional office where they do this. What a monumental waste of time, money and energy for us both.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 5:02:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2002 5:03:30 AM EDT by ChrisLe]
Originally Posted By Geachtete: For those 2 of you who said they purchased lowers from Stan, did you get him to order them for you, or did you buy them on your own and have them transferred through him? I wanted an RRA stripped lower and this might be why he is hassling me.
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My lower was bought directly from BM by me. The EA-15 was a private purchase (an-unfired NIB preban for 700.00..[:D]). Neither was purchased through T&T, they merely facilitated the FFL transfer.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 5:22:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Geachtete: For those 2 of you who said they purchased lowers from Stan, did you get him to order them for you, or did you buy them on your own and have them transferred through him? I wanted an RRA stripped lower and this might be why he is hassling me.
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I actually had him order the 2 lowers for me from Bushmaster. I can't believe he's hassling you like this. Business must be slow at the moment.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 5:56:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoomPatrol: Just for the sake of discussion, if you were dead set on committing a crime with a registered handgun, couldn't you polish or do some slight grinding(not enough to effect performance) to the aforementioned parts so the casing(s) left behind wouldn't match anything in the forensic database? This would be assuming there was no reason to suspect you and the investigation was riding more or less solely on the casing evidence.
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You can legally replace the slide, extractor, barrel and firing pin, leaving 0 original pieces that leave markings on the casing. Of course, this would be even more humorous in the case of an AR, where you could simply sell the upper with no paper trail and buy a replacement that would be exempt from this requirement. Yet another case where the politicians create a law without the input of experts in the field they're trying to "help". But we shouldn't be too hard on the politicians. It can't be easy growing up wearing an orange helmet and riding on the short bus.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 7:32:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2002 7:39:31 AM EDT by Geachtete]
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 7:48:05 AM EDT
*Shakes his head* I Feel for yah, man... Well, do this: They want to get a bullet from it? Fine. Hand them the lower and tell them to have fun. (Note: I didn't say anything about giving them the Upper [;)] ) Oh...when he goes to the NYSP to do the firing? If you can, go with him. When the cops tell your FFL that he's on crack and they'll only test handguns, you aughta be there to hear it. It should make the whole thing worth it.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 9:23:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 1:55:37 PM EDT
T and T will do anything they can to make a few extra bucks and this sounds likea ploy. Use LRB in Floral Park - better service, better prices. And no one has been busted using this waste of life casing directory yet.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 2:20:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 2:41:20 PM EDT
Ok, if you are a pretty avid shooter and after putting say 2000 rnds or more through a handgun, would the markings on the casings still match the first enough to stand up in court? I know we're talkin bout brass vs. hardened steel here but as a machinist I've seen where brass has it's fair share of abrasive/polishing capabilities especially coupled with heat and some eventual contamination.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 2:50:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By qwijibo:
Originally Posted By DoomPatrol: Just for the sake of discussion, if you were dead set on committing a crime with a registered handgun, couldn't you polish or do some slight grinding(not enough to effect performance) to the aforementioned parts so the casing(s) left behind wouldn't match anything in the forensic database?
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I think what these well-intentioned legislators *overlooked* was that over time and usage the ballistic impressions of any particular firearm will change. Barring that, running a few rounds of fire lapping ammo will speed up the process. Another area of concern would be that even though the ballistic fingerprint is supposed to be unique from one weapon to the next, I would think that would apply more to firearms manufactured with differnt machine tools weeks or even days apart. How much difference can there be in a run of say 100 handguns, made on the same day, on the same machines?
Yet another case where the politicians create a law without the input of experts in the field they're trying to "help". But we shouldn't be too hard on the politicians. It can't be easy growing up wearing an orange helmet and riding on the short bus.
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I'm a little more cynical than that. I have little doubt that the real intention is to hamper the manufacture and sale of firearms.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 5:09:44 PM EDT
I'm a little more cynical than that. I have little doubt that the real intention is to hamper the manufacture and sale of firearms.
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I think thats the point most everyone is making in the end, that this law is pointless when it comes to actually helping law enforcement in any real way, shape or form. It's simply politics.
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 5:18:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2002 5:20:11 PM EDT by stubbs]
If I were a criminal in NY or MD (also requires ballistic ID), I'd just use a revolver. But I guess all crooks are really dumb and just dump all of their empty casings at the scene. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 5:54:28 PM EDT
The hours at LRB are a little sketchy, although Lou, the owner, is definitely helpful and reasonably priced at $25 per transfer. I only suggest it because its so close to T&T in Floral Park and any store (that is to say, T&T) that charges $549 for a CETME doesn't deserve customers. As for the casing database, my friend ordered in a springfield 1911 from a dealer in Louisiana. When it came, there was no casing because springfield had not shipped it to NY. He had two choices: send the gun back to springfield for a test fire, or, have his dealer take it to the state police barracks in middletown, 75 miles away. He chose the former and it took six weeks to get it back. If you want to beat it, just go on ebay and get a new slide and barrel for your pistol. Commit your crime with your replacement slide, leave all the shell casings you want, then chuck the replacement slide off the GWB. The cops will be confounded when they test your gun and the casings don't match those left at the crime scene (different breech face and barrel marks).
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 5:39:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 6:31:56 AM EDT
His M14 receivers look great. He's got a half page ad in SN about them. I'll have to price out hom much it would cost to have one.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:12:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:18:01 AM EDT
Who were you dealing with? A redish brown haired guy with glasses? He's full of shit and has been full of shit for a long time, even since I worked at Edelman's with him. He's a POS and you can tell him that Greg from Edelman's said so. Then go anywhere but there to complete your transfer, he's a dirt bag and you don't want him touching your stuff. Greg Its been awhile, but is his name Bob Parker (Parkhill?) or something like that?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 2:40:09 PM EDT
Who were you dealing with? A redish brown haired guy with glasses? He's full of shit and has been full of shit for a long time, even since I worked at Edelman's with him. He's a POS and you can tell him that Greg from Edelman's said so. Then go anywhere but there to complete your transfer, he's a dirt bag and you don't want him touching your stuff. Greg Its been awhile, but is his name Bob Parker (Parkhill?) or something like that?
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Can't be the same guy. The one I deal with is named Louis B. He seems like a good guy.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 2:51:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 1:46:15 PM EDT
Doesn't sound like the same guy. The guy I'm talking about has redish brown hair, always had a beard and glasses. Comes across as nice, but usually will bend customers over and give em a good shafting if he can. I'd never deal with any store he's a part of.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 1:56:03 PM EDT
It's not the same guy. My 'roids weren't any the worse after dealing with Lou.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 4:47:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: It's not the same guy. My 'roids weren't any the worse after dealing with Lou.
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Glad to hear it. I've had some good dealings with people there after Edelman's was tanked, but since Parker was taken on, I wouldn't go near the place.
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