Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 3/14/2011 5:28:56 AM EST

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2058086,00.html#ixzz1GaGw1yR9

In the book you write, "The American dream as we knew it is dead." What did you mean by that?

The American dream transformed over the past few years. It became a dream of bigger, better, newer. How do you buy stuff without any money? It was leverage. It was this American financial fantasyland. We were all trying to keep up with the Joneses. We were all trying to do things that we never should have done. And that American dream turned into the greatest financial nightmare of all time. You can't get a loan. You can't get a job. You can't get credit. So the old American dream really is dead.


When Suzy Orman says "stick a fork in it", that's a bad sign.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:30:07 AM EST


Uh-oh.....
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:31:40 AM EST

Reality is reality.

The Dream isn't dead, but we aren't doing all the things we can do to revive it, either.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:33:30 AM EST
I actually agree with her, but she's not saying the American Dream is dead, just the strive to look wealthy bastardization of the dream. Good.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:34:10 AM EST
The "American Dream" as she describes it was built on greed. No wonder it's dying.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:36:29 AM EST
Gerald Celente beat her to that story. However, like OP said, it's bad when someone like Suzy Orman admits the obvious.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:39:58 AM EST
I guess it has to go back to an older model:

Work hard, and smart. Save every penny you can. Build real wealth instead of borrowing it on a promise you can't be assured of keeping.

You know...the way my parents did it. They made their way to millionaire status without taking out loans to do it.


No, the American dream is not dead. But it will no longer be available on credit.


Frankly, I think it's now as it should be.


I have no fear of what the future holds for me financially. I'll be fine. Maybe not rich, but comfortable enough.


CJ
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:43:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 5:45:01 AM EST by makintrax73]
I'm raising the Bullshit flag on this one. Out here in small town America where I live "The American Dream" was never defined by living in a 3000 sq ft house, and driving a german car. The American Dream that people had 30 or 40 years ago (a modest house, car, have a few extras in life, and raise your kids and get them an education) is still alive and well - for people who are willing to learn a trade or get an education. No you can't get a factory job out of high school and earn a living wage for the rest of your life like you could back in those days. Well times change. Adapt or get left behind.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:44:15 AM EST
Act your wage, not your credit rating.

Plastic people melted. No real suprise. Remember the tv show Dallas? When average folks thought southfork was a mansion?

Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:45:38 AM EST
The "American Dream" as I always understood it, was to live with the blessings of Liberty and Individual Freedom.

At some point, it became distorted to believe that this "dream" was just material wealth and financial success. (Since a free society will usually prosper, this was natural).

I hope we are beginning to realize (yet again) that the ultimate dream is a to live free and in peace. It has nothing to do with money.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:46:09 AM EST
Somewhat pertaining to this iidea, a common bitch among most Americans is how to pay for retirement.

Retirement??!?!?!

When, in the history of the entire fucking world, was it ever okay to quit working because you decided you had worked enough? Up until 50 years ago people retired when they: A) were already born rich and never had to work to begin with, B) were injured or incapacitated in some way that kept them from working (and in these cases they often moved in with family who had what amounted to an obligation to care for them), and C) died. People didn't hold the idea that "if I save some amount of money I can live on that until I'm dead", because of the priority placed in being productive.
Now, I'm not opposed to a person rolling the dice and saving a pile of cash and trying to make it last until the Grim Reaper shows up, but your bitching is rendered null and void when "prices went up and we didn't expect that" or "we planned, but not for this". I believe this argument holds for pretty much anything with regards to financial planning in our society - if you remove the means to produce (quit working/retire, in this case) you put yourself at a huge risk of being in a bad way down the road.

What are those two words we like around here...oh yeah. Personal Responsibility.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:47:42 AM EST
The dream isn't dead. The limit in ink in the pen of those who signed their name for things they could not afford has come to an end....for now.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 5:59:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:02:53 AM EST
The real American Dream is not dead. There are just not that many people willing to work hard enough to get it.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:04:13 AM EST
Does her opinion have any connection to the availability or unavailability of airtime on tax-funded, charitably deductible TV stations for the hawking of books?
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:04:35 AM EST
Suzy Orman. DNC & Obama supporter.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:08:11 AM EST
The American dream of:

Go to college (mostly a waste of money and burdensome debt)
Get a great Job (good luck keeping it assuming you even get one)
Buy a house (better buy one that you can afford and nope it wont appreciate "sucker")
Have 2.5 kids (good luck with both you and your wife working, better be ready to pay big for daycare)
Retire in your fifties/sixties with millions from your 401K (nope 401K wont match inflation, your a sucker again)

That dream is dead. (this goes for all of you 30-40 somethings thinking your dollar cost average investments into your 401K s going to pay off long term)



The American Dream of

Work hard and make something of yourself is teetering on death (regulation and taxes are killing the chances of a self made man)
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:08:20 AM EST
She's right. I enjoy her show, too, for the most part.

At least people are going to start talking about this more... It's a mindset shift that needs to happen, and (judging from how busy the malls are around me) not many people have considered.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:10:47 AM EST
She can speak for herself. My dreams are alive and well.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:10:51 AM EST
The American Dream is to be able to become anything. With enough effort, the smallest can become the mightiest in America. As was posted earlier, the difference these days is that you will no longer be able to get there on installments.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:13:09 AM EST
I wish the dream would come back long enough so I could sell a large building I own , then I would owe nothing to anybody !

All I need to pay off is my home , I have zero CC debt !

Come on American dream , daddy needs to pay off the house.......
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:14:20 AM EST
Maybe the american dream 2.0 of financing shit you can't afford.

Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:16:44 AM EST
No it isn't.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:20:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
She can speak for herself. My dreams are alive and well.


Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:20:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By Procyon:
Suzy Orman. DNC & Obama supporter.


...And still, correct in this instance...
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:26:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:28:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:37:07 AM EST
Since when as credit part of the American Dream?

She is as clueless as those union guys who were telling my dad, 30-40-20* is the 'new' American Dream.

*Work 30 hours/wk, get paid for 40 hours of work, retire after 20 years of work.

The 'Story of Stuff' is not the American Dream.

I would expect nothing less than this drivel from Time.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:39:27 AM EST
Not for Charlie Sheen.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:41:34 AM EST
Horseshit.

Banks around here were dying to lend me money for my startup. You just have to spend a little more time than you used to proving you can pay it back. Due diligence by both parties. They all told me they had tons of money to lend, but no one wanted to borrow because they didn't have a legitimate way to pay it back, or didn't have cash or collateral to put down. JUST LIKE IT FUCKING USED TO BE.

Yes the economy is still bad.

No it isn't the end of the American Dream.

If you have an idea, you can still chase it. It still takes hard work, creativity and good sense to make it happen, just like it always has.

Start out slow, save your money, invest wisely. JUST LIKE OUR GRANDPARENTS HAD TO.

Fuck Suze Orman, that big-mouthed dyke. You can't claim that because we can't do all the stupid things we shouldn't have been doing anymore, that this somehow makes the American Dream dead.

It will be a new frontier. Success will only be had by those who work the hardest and are the smartest at what they do. I have no problem with this.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:42:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By raven:
Not for Charlie Sheen.


Winning.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:47:15 AM EST
The dream is only dead among the socialist/communist/state unions in this country who have worked very hard to destroy it. Usually the feelings are stronger in the northeast where those groups rain supreme.

Go to Texas, lots of jobs for those willing to work or who can provide value and they are high paying jobs. Also, our state is not run by a bunch of corrupt/pansy liberals and unions and we are not yet in debt, but we are having difficulty with the worthless education system trying to bankrupt us––-just like everywhere else.

The reality is, a heck of a lot of people just dont want to work or they have nothing to offer in the high tech world. The chinese are eating our lunch as they will work and do provide value and they are creating a incredible amount of millionaires on a daily basis. For some reason, in the 80s-90s we would have found a way to provide/sell something to all those millionaires, now for some reason we can not.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:48:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 6:49:36 AM EST by stockshift]

Homer, when a man's biggest dreams include seconds on dessert, occasional snuggling and sleeping till noon on weekends, no one man can destroy them.


With a some minor exceptions to the above, it helps things if you appreciate the simple things in life. You don't need to drive a Bugatti Veyron to live the American dream.




Edit: I will say that I am surprised that nobody has posted the "I HAVE A DERAM" photoshop pic yet.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:49:33 AM EST
In a way, she is right.

The "American Dream" of the 80s-now is dead; The whole "keeping up with Joneses" and "Affluenza" thing is dying a painfull death.

To me, the American Dream was coming from nothing and being able to live a better life. I am proof of that-parts of my family came from Italy dirt poor in the early 1900s...I now live in a decent area with low crime, clean water, a decent house to live in, etc. The problem is that people got wayyyyyyyy too greedy/status seeking/etc. and the dream became "live in the best area with the best cars, house, more stuff than the neighbors..and borrow it all to keep up".

I may never be rich, but I live better than 99% of the world on the lower end of the middle class..I can't complain about that. If Americans woke up and realized that, we would be in a better place.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:51:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By raven:
Not for Charlie Sheen.


Winning.


Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:52:29 AM EST
She needs to STFU and get busy helping us productive members rebuild it.

Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:54:11 AM EST
If your American dream is living on govt handouts without even being an American necessarily it's Alive and Well
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 6:57:36 AM EST
I'm a Physician, not a magician.

It's dead Jim.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:02:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By flcroc:
Somewhat pertaining to this iidea, a common bitch among most Americans is how to pay for retirement.

Retirement??!?!?!

When, in the history of the entire fucking world, was it ever okay to quit working because you decided you had worked enough?
What are those two words we like around here...oh yeah. Personal Responsibility.


Meh, once my home was paid for, I no longer had a need to work for wages and give a big fat chunk of it to .gov to redistribute.

You can work until you drop dead, doesn't mean a thing to me.


Nice editing job. I did say that if someone were in your situation, then more power to you. I don't begrudge anything.
I don't expect to be able to retire because of my age (34) in relation to how this economic disaster is going to be fixed (if ever) becaue some thing are out of my control. I will do all I can to provide for and make make comfortable my family. I certainly don't expect to get to quit just because I've worked for some years.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:06:51 AM EST
the amerikan dream is simply the dream of opportunity. thats why immigrants have come here starting with the pilgrims. no guarantees, just the opportunity.

so what happened? folks became more interested in guarantees instead of opportunity. and guarantees of bigger, better, two homes, expensive cars, early retirement, or for poorer folks, wides screen tvs, ipods, a bling car, free education and health care for the kiddies.

the government, politicians of all persuasions gave it to everybody, high and low, rich and poor. we traded opportunity for guarantees and thereby sold our souls.

the bill is due, we all get to pay... including our children.

can this be changed? yes will it? no. history points the way towards general rot and dissipation.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:13:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:13:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I guess it has to go back to an older model:

Work hard, and smart. Save every penny you can. Build real wealth instead of borrowing it on a promise you can't be assured of keeping.

You know...the way my parents did it. They made their way to millionaire status without taking out loans to do it.


No, the American dream is not dead. But it will no longer be available on credit.


Frankly, I think it's now as it should be.


I have no fear of what the future holds for me financially. I'll be fine. Maybe not rich, but comfortable enough.


CJ


Bingo,

Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people out there used to being able to live a lifestyle well beyond their means. I don't know if they will be able to adapt, or accept that they will have to be who they are. No more BMW's, Rolexes, $500 dinners, and $2500 purses on a salary of $50k a year. Guess we'll find out.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:15:50 AM EST
The unrealistic American dream is dead.

Now if they can get intrest back up to 7% so that you can be rewarded for investment.

And get the alphabet agencies off of small business owners asses and out of their business. Regulations are the real opportunity killers.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:19:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By brassburn:
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I guess it has to go back to an older model:

Work hard, and smart. Save every penny you can. Build real wealth instead of borrowing it on a promise you can't be assured of keeping.

You know...the way my parents did it. They made their way to millionaire status without taking out loans to do it.


No, the American dream is not dead. But it will no longer be available on credit.


Frankly, I think it's now as it should be.


I have no fear of what the future holds for me financially. I'll be fine. Maybe not rich, but comfortable enough.


CJ


Bingo,

Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people out there used to being able to live a lifestyle well beyond their means. I don't know if they will be able to adapt, or accept that they will have to be who they are. No more BMW's, Rolexes, $500 dinners, and $2500 purses on a salary of $50k a year. Guess we'll find out.


+1

If you read the article carefully, that's what Suze Orman is saying. The perception of the American Dream has changed, a new perception that you can max yourself out on credit and plastic and live a financial life well beyond your means. After 2008, that is the dream that is coming to an end.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:20:07 AM EST
I look at the other way. The American dream is being reborn. The American delusion has finally died. Those that understand and live the principles that built the foundation for this country will prosper despite the painful burden of having to ween those that don't away from the delusion.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:21:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By ShurShot:
Horseshit.

Banks around here were dying to lend me money for my startup. You just have to spend a little more time than you used to proving you can pay it back. Due diligence by both parties. They all told me they had tons of money to lend, but no one wanted to borrow because they didn't have a legitimate way to pay it back, or didn't have cash or collateral to put down. JUST LIKE IT FUCKING USED TO BE.

Yes the economy is still bad.

No it isn't the end of the American Dream.

If you have an idea, you can still chase it. It still takes hard work, creativity and good sense to make it happen, just like it always has.

Start out slow, save your money, invest wisely. JUST LIKE OUR GRANDPARENTS HAD TO.

Fuck Suze Orman, that big-mouthed dyke. You can't claim that because we can't do all the stupid things we shouldn't have been doing anymore, that this somehow makes the American Dream dead.

It will be a new frontier. Success will only be had by those who work the hardest and are the smartest at what they do. I have no problem with this.


nice - good for you!

I just refinanced my house and it was like pulling teeth. It took 3 months and the banks took a hairy eyeball at everything. In fact they sabotaged our home valuation.

We have Tier 1 credit and we weren't asking for stupid money. It made no sense.

It made me wonder how I'd get financing for the business my wife and I hope to start in the next couple of years. The experience really soured us.

We contribute to the bailouts, the banks have zero risk because they get money from the .gov... yet they stick it to us, the little guys. Again.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:21:23 AM EST
No shit.....
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:24:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dragracer:
The unrealistic American dream is dead.

Now if they can get intrest back up to 7% so that you can be rewarded for investment.

And get the alphabet agencies off of small business owners asses and out of their business. Regulations are the real opportunity killers.



This is also what's killing us. FAR too many Americans have been conditioned to believe that the answer to society's ills is more government. Now that half of Americans are benefiting from a larger government, that pendulum is going to be awfully difficult to swing back by voting. Buckle up folks, it will get worse before it gets better.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:24:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By macman37:
Originally Posted By ShurShot:
Horseshit.

Banks around here were dying to lend me money for my startup. You just have to spend a little more time than you used to proving you can pay it back. Due diligence by both parties. They all told me they had tons of money to lend, but no one wanted to borrow because they didn't have a legitimate way to pay it back, or didn't have cash or collateral to put down. JUST LIKE IT FUCKING USED TO BE.

Yes the economy is still bad.

No it isn't the end of the American Dream.

If you have an idea, you can still chase it. It still takes hard work, creativity and good sense to make it happen, just like it always has.

Start out slow, save your money, invest wisely. JUST LIKE OUR GRANDPARENTS HAD TO.

Fuck Suze Orman, that big-mouthed dyke. You can't claim that because we can't do all the stupid things we shouldn't have been doing anymore, that this somehow makes the American Dream dead.

It will be a new frontier. Success will only be had by those who work the hardest and are the smartest at what they do. I have no problem with this.


nice - good for you!

I just refinanced my house and it was like pulling teeth. It took 3 months and the banks took a hairy eyeball at everything. In fact they sabotaged our home valuation.

We have Tier 1 credit and we weren't asking for stupid money. It made no sense.

It made me wonder how I'd get financing for the business my wife and I hope to start in the next couple of years. The experience really soured us.

We contribute to the bailouts, the banks have zero risk because they get money from the .gov... yet they stick it to us, the little guys. Again.
My wife and I bought a newer car back in December. We were putting 30% down on it that I bought 10% under market value. Getting a modest 3 year loan (with two people having credit scores of 830 and 815) was ridiculous and our home refinance last summer was equally frustrating.

Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:25:30 AM EST
Some of us have realized the American dream and are living it. However, for many, especially the younger ones, it grows increasingly difficult to achieve.

First, anyone going to college can't simply work their way through school anymore. In my days, you could take a part time job, make money to pay for your semester and your books and other fees. With college costing as much as $20-30k a year, that's virtually impossible and it's not unusual for a kid to graduate with $100k in debt. Now, throw in the bad economy and no middle class jobs with which they can start to pay off their school loans. A lot of middle class jobs have been outsourced overseas. Initially it was production jobs and now it's office jobs. Our medical records can be overseas as is software design and development. That 44 million Americans are now on food stamps speaks volumes for how bad off the economy is and every college graduate enters a market that is already saturated with experienced talent.

If two college grads get married and have a combined debt of $200k, then how do they even start saving up for a down payment on a house? It's possible if those "kids" were medical doctors, airline pilots and other high paying salaries. It's also possible if they were both police officers in a major metropolitan area. If one was in the oil drilling work, there will be big money in that when oil hits $200 barrel. If they were lawyers, they may be able to sue their way into middle class (but that's just taking money from others who had it and not producing tangible goods). Nope, the dream is becoming harder and harder to attain.

We're actually in a depression and it will take about twenty years to recover.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 7:25:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 7:27:45 AM EST by Angelshare1]
The American Dream was never to take on huge amounts of debt to finance your current lifestyle. I think she needs to look up what the American Dream means.

edit: google willy loman under images. What in the blue fuck am I looking at? (you'll know the one I'm talking about.)
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top