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Posted: 1/1/2003 8:45:23 PM EST
How many of you would be in favor of the NRA (and other pro second amendment groups as well) cutting the bs and start fighting for our rights on second amendment grounds ? What I mean is try to get laws overturned based on them being unconstitutional. It seems that mostly what the NRA does is "compromise" so when new laws are proposed they get watered down a little so we don't get screwed as badly as we would. To me this is just death by a thousand cuts. I'm thinking why not fight for our rights on second amendment grounds ? - If we win we win big. If we loose we are getting to the point were we are gonna windup in the future if things stay the way they are now anyway. The way I look at if they made all guns illegal tomorrow, there would be so many people breaking the law the something would have to give. On the otherhand the longer it takes for our rights to be taken away the more time the antis have to convince people thru our liberal controlled school systems and media that guns are not needed and should be outlawed.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:16:09 PM EST
P_GM... there's one major thing working in our favor in the fight against "gun control"... We already have guns. Lots and lots of them. It's not like we don't have any and are trying to get them. We are already armed to the teeth and the anti-gunners know it. They know we are politically active and they also know that if the S ever does HTF, they will be beggin one of us for a can of green beans - not the other way around.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:22:28 PM EST
I am not against the legal pursuit to overturn unconstitutional gun laws, but how much will this cost us, the taxpayer? I agree that we are giving up quite a bit in the name of compromise, and I think we need to stop that. In the end it is all about the money. I say go for it, outlaw guns, that way I can break out my SHTF gear and join the revolution. In all reality, they will never be able to outlaw guns without something going greatly amiss. We have too many foreign enemies to do so. Just my .02
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:32:15 PM EST
[b]BenDover[/b], the problem though is that we, they, the NRA are giving up our guns bit by bit, not the other way around. The fact that we still have guns is the ONLY thing in our favor - and that is slipping away. Hell, even GUNOWNERS are giving up their's and our guns. Duck hunters are giving up OUR military-style guns and the Bradyites know this. That's why their motto is "Who needs an AK47 to go duck hunting?" The NRA are always willing to sit down and negotiate "reasonable" gun laws and fall on their asses on the slippery slope the Bradyites use. When the #1 most common type of gun used in crimes (handguns) are regulated/banned out of existance, the #2 most common gun becomes the #1 most common - and then IT must be banned. Then the #3 most common becomes #1 and so IT TOO must be banned... and so on until we've negotiated away ALL guns under the guise of working together for "reasonable" gun laws. House-by-house, slowly but surely, one gun-owner at at time, "reasonable" gun laws will erode our numbers.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:37:35 PM EST
The_Mac... I don't own any NFA weapons, but I know where some are. I don't own any illegally configured "assault rifles" but I know where some are. Somehow or another, I would find it incredibly difficult to believe if the NRA sold us completely out - say even a total ban on all firearms - that the general population at large would not have access to firearms and wouldn't hesitate to use them. I am in militia country here on the rural border of Ohio and Indiana, so maybe my perspective is a little different. But these cracker, wonderbread, hillbilly, redneck, cooters aren't going to give their guns up - regardless of what the SCOTUS or the NRA says.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:40:13 PM EST
Out of my cold, dead hands... as they say We need to take every opportunity to stand up for our god given rights. We should certainly challenge these unconstitutional laws in court, but with the liberal judges it may be an uphill battle. Hopefully that battle will find its way to the Supreme Court and they will rule. Until then, civil disobedience, anyone?
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:46:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By BenDover: They know we are politically active and they also know that if the S ever does HTF, they will be beggin one of us for a can of green beans - not the other way around.
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Only problem with that statement is. Most of the liberal's are complete idiots that do not think and refuse to think that the S will EVER HTF! That's why they say there is no need for AW's.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:53:02 PM EST
I hear ya'! And that's why there'll never be a direct total ban on firearms here (at least for the next 50 years). Incremental "reasonable" gun laws, media/public school brainwashing, growth of urban centers (most antis are innercityfolk), flooding immigration from cultures with no history of gunownership, insurance liabilities, civil lawsuits, witholding federal funding from pro-gun states (like they do with highway funds for clean air enforcement), heavy taxation and policies "protecting the children" will all do the trick.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:58:38 PM EST
the first step is to make sure that Bush puts some pro-gun people on the supreme court. The liberals will try every tactic they can come up with to force a compromise on the judge nominations. they will say every honest constitution supporting judge is nominated by an abortion liptmus(?) test. they will say we must have a fair and balanced supreme court to get him to send some constitution-bending judges for appproval. they will call for racial equality, sex equality, and ideological equality. we all know if it was a democrap pres. we would get a supreme court that looked and acted like the 9th CCOA in california. we must write to our reps. in washington and tell them what judges we like as they are nominated. that is the first step. DO NOT ALLOW COMPROMISE ON THIS. when we can be assured victory in the supreme court is when we need to take this there. the opportunity has never been better for getting a solid constitution supporting court. we can't let this opportunity slip by. just my 02.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:59:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2003 10:03:24 PM EST by BenDover]
Of course they don't think we would actually line them up in a field and mow them down in a hail of lead in retaliation to their politics [;)]. What sort of SHTF did you think I was referring to? [:D] Remember when the Unibomber was in full swing? Lots of people were in panic mode. Now imagine when some paramilitary types start kidnapping and killing some liberal politicians and judges in response to some Homeland Defense or ATF raids. Study the tactics used by the IRA. Sure a single raid might net a perpetrator or two and get some evil, banned guns off the street. Then a bomb goes off somewhere else, killing 250 liberals in a single incident. Or maybe a prominant, liberal federal judge's body is dumped in the middle of some park with a note staped to his/her forehead. How do you think this war will be waged? You don't really think it will just be some isolated Waco standoffs or traditional firefights do you? Sure there will be some of those sorts of activities - but, the aforementioned acts are what they really fear and what will take place. It's one of the cover reasons for the development of the Homeland Defense crewe NOW as opposed to developing it in reaction to the events after the fact. They want to identify pockets of potential resistance and gauge the capabilities and alliances. After all, just because you are against gun control, support the Second Amendment, own lots of evil firearms, and can even shoot them with some degree of skill doesn't necessarily mean that you possess the fortitude or willingness to sacrifice your entire existence by squeezing the trigger when the time comes. They are desperate to know which ones of us can and will slice that knife blade through the throat of a liberal enemy - except there is no information systems network in existence that can measure a man's willingness to be a martyr for a belief.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 9:38:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By BenDover: P_GM... there's one major thing working in our favor in the fight against "gun control"... We already have guns. Lots and lots of them. It's not like we don't have any and are trying to get them. We are already armed to the teeth and the anti-gunners know it. They know we are politically active and they also know that if the S ever does HTF, they will be beggin one of us for a can of green beans - not the other way around.
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I agree with what your are saying here. What I'm saying is that slowly but surely the guns we have are being concentrated amoung a smaller and smaller group of gun owners. As the the decades go by and more and more people are brainwashed by liberal controlled school systems and media we slowly become more and more of a minority. Basically delaying the inevitable (which is all I think the NRA does) makes our cause weaker because when the time comes we will be so outnumbered we won't matter.
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