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Posted: 6/30/2015 8:41:56 AM EDT
Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission, appears to have suggested the following 4-point program to resolve the impasse between Greece and its international lenders:

1. Greece would accept the package of tax and budgetary measures proposed by the lenders last Friday, with some minor modifications such as lowering the proposed VAT on hotels from 23% to 13%. Indeed, the Greek government would withdraw Sunday's referendum on this, or campaign for a "yes" vote.

2. Greek pensions and salaries would not be reduced. (This would not preclude raising the retirement age to 67, for new retirees.)

3. Measures would be taken to make the Greek debt more viable, such as extending maturity dates or lowering the interest rates.

4. The EU would provide a "Marshall Plan" for Greek development, up to 30 billion euros.

Tsipras appears to be open to this, and has been in communication with Juncker.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 8:45:01 AM EDT
More throwing good money after bad.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 8:46:33 AM EDT
Let it collapse.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 8:55:06 AM EDT
More throwing good money after bad.
View Quote


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 8:58:58 AM EDT
Stock futures point to a rally shaping up. Let's see if it holds.

I see a buying opportunity.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 8:59:10 AM EDT
The world has spent billions helping greece limp along for years, let it failalready so a better govt can form in place of the old one.



Greeks need to learn a lesson in living within one's means.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 8:59:35 AM EDT
Fuck them, fuck that.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:15:19 AM EDT
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Quoted:


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.
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Quoted:
More throwing good money after bad.


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.


a break-up is a good thing not a bad thing.

The stock market is reacting the possible spread of bad debt contagion.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:19:13 AM EDT
If the stock market recovers today, it will be because of the rumors of a settlement of the Greek crisis.

Above all, the stock market hates uncertainty. A resolution one way or the other would be good for the market.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:20:08 AM EDT

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Quoted:


More throwing good money after bad.
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+1 Pretty much this.



I'm loving it watching this shit unfold every day because you essentially have one socialist asshole (Tsipras/Greece) trying to tell other socialist assholes (the EU) that they need more of their money, thus the EU doesn't like this because they're used to being the ones taking money from productive economies (aka, how socialism really works).  It's even funnier because the EU wants to kick Greece out, you can tell just by watching the mannerisms of the EU presidents and their lackeys, Merkel, etc. but they know they can't do this because if they kicked Greece out it'll set precedent for others leaving and socialist assholes don't want that because that's all they're good at:  making socialist policies/laws to take other peoples money.  That plus they enjoy the socialist circle jerking each other always talking about how awesome they all are, much like any liberal.



 
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:30:52 AM EDT
Has Greece been repossessed yet ?
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:38:38 AM EDT
What get me is the people of this country do not want to submit to any austerity measures to save their own ass.  Just what the hell can they be thinking.  Would they prefer complete insolvency and starvation.

They have fucked the dog and lived off the tit to long and the tit is dry.

Own up and work your way out of it.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:39:33 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Has Greece been repossessed yet ?
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I dont know but yesterday i drove by the Parthenon and it was up on blocks and the wheels were gone.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:40:14 AM EDT
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Quoted:
The world ... <snip> ...need to learn a lesson in living within one's means.
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FIFY
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:55:01 AM EDT
I just got an email from some Greek prince informing me that I won the Greek lottery.



I just need to pay the taxes in advance.




Is this legit?






Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:57:30 AM EDT
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Quoted:


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.
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Quoted:
More throwing good money after bad.


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.


How bad off was the world economy prior to the EU?

It wasn't. There's your answer.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 9:58:14 AM EDT
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Quoted:
If the stock market recovers today, it will be because of the rumors of a settlement of the Greek crisis.

Above all, the stock market hates uncertainty. A resolution one way or the other would be good for the market.
View Quote


Bullshit.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:02:19 AM EDT
I really don't understand why this is such a complex problem to solve!



Just get some more money from somewhere and the problem goes away.  Economics.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:06:07 AM EDT
Just cut the cord and be done with it.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:08:50 AM EDT
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Quoted:
If the stock market recovers today, it will be because of the rumors of a settlement of the Greek crisis.

Above all, the stock market hates uncertainty. A resolution one way or the other would be good for the market.
View Quote


Whats good for the market isn't always good for the people.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:11:47 AM EDT
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Quoted:


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
More throwing good money after bad.


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.


All these measures just delay the inevitable collapse. It's cheaper to collapse sooner than it is to collapse later. This lesson needs to be learned. Greece is a shining jewel of colossal ignorance for the rest of the socialists to observe.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:15:46 AM EDT
The early stock market rally seems to be fizzling. Maybe the optimism on the Greek situation was premature.

Those who are pointing to the Greek situation as a paradigm for tax and debt policies in other countries are ignorant of Greek history. The lessons there are not transferable. As a matter of fact, the former Greek prime minister, Andreas Papandreou -- an American-trained economist -- made the opposite mistake of trying to apply American lessons to the Greek economy. He ran up debt to fund social programs. Then his successor, Costas Simitis, cemented the disaster by joining the eurozone, which prevented Greece from devaluing its currency and printing money. They overlooked the facts that America has one of the strongest economies in the world, has a strong industrial base, can print unlimited amounts of money, has a gilt-edged credit rating, and has an effective tax system. None of these things apply to Greece.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:16:37 AM EDT
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Quoted:
If the stock market recovers today, it will be because of the rumors of a settlement of the Greek crisis.

Above all, the stock market hates uncertainty. A resolution one way or the other would be good for the market.
View Quote


You continue to demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:18:51 AM EDT
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Quoted:


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.
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Quoted:
More throwing good money after bad.


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.


It is going to happen, regardless.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:19:40 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I really don't understand why this is such a complex problem to solve!



Just get some more money from somewhere and the problem goes away.  Economics.
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Ayup, KISS.


   
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:19:42 AM EDT

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Quoted:


Let it collapse.
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Yep. The sooner it collapses then the sooner everything can be rebuilt.



 
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:23:09 AM EDT

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:24:45 AM EDT
Why all the monetary turmoil over Greece ??

I don't think it's all about Greece .  But I do believe that it is seen as the nudge that sets other marginal countries on the same path .

Spain , Italy , Portugal and some others I'm sure are keeping a close eye on how Greece gets out of this trap .  With the thought of using the same escape route if Greece is successful in dodging the creditors .


This could all be a case of " we ain't seen nothing yet ".


gd
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:26:35 AM EDT
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Quoted:
What get me is the people of this country do not want to submit to any austerity measures to save their own ass.  Just what the hell can they be thinking.  Would they prefer complete insolvency and starvation.

They have fucked the dog and lived off the tit to long and the tit is dry.

Own up and work your way out of it.
View Quote



If you have rich countries to give you money, why work?


Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:27:08 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Has Greece been repossessed yet ?
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Italy tried to repose Greece in 1940-41. It did not go well for the Italians and instead Greece reposed 1/3 of Albania

Greece is one of the world's most hostile places to be an invader or occupier. Crete may very well be the worst place to occupy and the Germans claimed it was the single most dangerous occupied area they dealt with.

Greeks will tear each other apart until an outsider steps in and then they are brothers in arms.
This is not a recent phenomenon.
In ancient times the Persians got their asses handed to them twice and found it was best to stay out and just bribe Greeks into fighting each other to prevent them invading Persia.
That of course only worked for so long before Alexander rewrote history and the map
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:28:07 AM EDT
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Quoted:


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

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Quoted:
More throwing good money after bad.


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?



I guess they should have formed the wretched thing then.  

Let it burn.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:29:50 AM EDT

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Quoted:
Italy tried to repose Greece in 1940-41. It did not go well for the Italians and instead Greece reposed 1/3 of Albania



Greece is one of the world's most hostile places to be an invader or occupier. Crete may very well be the worst place to occupy and the Germans claimed it was the single most dangerous occupied area they dealt with.



Greeks will tear each other apart until an outsider steps in and then they are brothers in arms.

This is not a recent phenomenon.

In ancient times the Persians got their asses handed to them twice and found it was best to stay out and just bribe Greeks into fighting each other to prevent them invading Persia.

That of course only worked for so long before Alexander rewrote history and the map
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:



Quoted:

Has Greece been repossessed yet ?




Italy tried to repose Greece in 1940-41. It did not go well for the Italians and instead Greece reposed 1/3 of Albania



Greece is one of the world's most hostile places to be an invader or occupier. Crete may very well be the worst place to occupy and the Germans claimed it was the single most dangerous occupied area they dealt with.



Greeks will tear each other apart until an outsider steps in and then they are brothers in arms.

This is not a recent phenomenon.

In ancient times the Persians got their asses handed to them twice and found it was best to stay out and just bribe Greeks into fighting each other to prevent them invading Persia.

That of course only worked for so long before Alexander rewrote history and the map


 
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:30:20 AM EDT
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Quoted:
The early stock market rally seems to be fizzling. Maybe the optimism on the Greek situation was premature.


View Quote


You don't really understand the market.

Time after time in downturn, recession, or correction, those of us who have bought in on the downturn have made great gains.  What you saw was after hours buying by long players, not short term speculation.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:30:59 AM EDT
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Quoted:


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.
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Quoted:
More throwing good money after bad.


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.


It would probably benefit everyone.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:31:13 AM EDT
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Quoted:


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.
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Quoted:
More throwing good money after bad.


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.


Feeding a beggar doesn't fix his problem.  He'll still starve one day.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:32:59 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Italy tried to repose Greece in 1940-41. It did not go well for the Italians and instead Greece reposed 1/3 of Albania

Greece is one of the world's most hostile places to be an invader or occupier. Crete may very well be the worst place to occupy and the Germans claimed it was the single most dangerous occupied area they dealt with.

Greeks will tear each other apart until an outsider steps in and then they are brothers in arms.
This is not a recent phenomenon.
In ancient times the Persians got their asses handed to them twice and found it was best to stay out and just bribe Greeks into fighting each other to prevent them invading Persia.
That of course only worked for so long before Alexander rewrote history and the map
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Has Greece been repossessed yet ?


Italy tried to repose Greece in 1940-41. It did not go well for the Italians and instead Greece reposed 1/3 of Albania

Greece is one of the world's most hostile places to be an invader or occupier. Crete may very well be the worst place to occupy and the Germans claimed it was the single most dangerous occupied area they dealt with.

Greeks will tear each other apart until an outsider steps in and then they are brothers in arms.
This is not a recent phenomenon.
In ancient times the Persians got their asses handed to them twice and found it was best to stay out and just bribe Greeks into fighting each other to prevent them invading Persia.
That of course only worked for so long before Alexander rewrote history and the map



Italy had to gas the Ethiopians to win that one, so I wouldn't point to them as a shining example of a defeated invader. Romans they are not.

Now when ze Germans paid a visit, what happened? Or for the 300 years of Ottoman rule?

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:33:59 AM EDT
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Quoted:


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.
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Quoted:
More throwing good money after bad.


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.


Greece's exit from the EU mandates the dissolution of the entire EU?

That seems very... fragile.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:34:18 AM EDT
The EU is now attempting to polish a turd.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:34:47 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Let it collapse.
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This, because the other is worse... EuropeanUnion becomes TransferUnion.  Something that will bring envy into the hearts and mind of all hardcore liberals around the world.

If that happens, the producer members will be the ones leaving to form the ProducerUnion.   When that happens, the TransferUnion will have to figure out how to pay for an economy with limited productivity.  We've seen that before, during the cold war era*. It's call communism.

So one can sum this up as:

ProducerUnion = Free World from that era
TransferUnion = Communism from that era

Gosh, this all sound familiar and who said history does not repeat itself?



*ETA: I realize some were born after the cold war and have not lived during that period that probably peaked in the 70s.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:34:58 AM EDT
Angela Merkel is not amused.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:35:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:36:15 AM EDT
You continue to demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
View Quote


There is no point in responding to this. All I can say is that it's meaningless unless you can cite specifics.

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:37:39 AM EDT
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Quoted:


You continue to demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
If the stock market recovers today, it will be because of the rumors of a settlement of the Greek crisis.

Above all, the stock market hates uncertainty. A resolution one way or the other would be good for the market.


You continue to demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.



Alexander A has been offering some of the best analysis of the Greek situation even better than the financial web sites that claim to be the know all and I as well as many others am delighted by his objectivity .
I have yet to detect any excuses to coddle Greek pride.

Those that do not hear what their ignorance claims to be reality only transform that ignorance to stupidity by their childish mini rants.

To borrow a line from Firefly, Richard Burgi to Jayne Cobb substituting attitude for hat:
"That attitude makes you look like an idiot"

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:38:17 AM EDT
The problem is not so much Greece, but who owns the Greek debt. You ever heard the saying, “if you owe a bank thousands, you have a problem; owe a bank millions, the bank has a problem”, that's the issue. The Greeks are dead men walking, and when they fall, it will create a shitstorm that will ripple worldwide through the banking system. I smell bailouts and haircuts.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:41:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:43:07 AM EDT
Yep. The sooner it collapses then the sooner everything can be rebuilt.
View Quote


Be careful what you wish for. A post-collapse Europe would mean a patchwork of countries ruled by Communist and Nazi dictatorships, spoiling to go to war with one another. France would be ruled by the National Front, Britain by the UKIP, etc. And the dominant power in all this would be Vladimir Putin's Russia. Is this the "rebuilding" you want?
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:44:21 AM EDT
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Quoted:


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.
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Quoted:
More throwing good money after bad.


For those saying this, ask yourselves -- what would be the cost to the world of a breakup of the European Union?

A partial answer is given in the reaction of the worldwide stock markets.



The world was just fine before the EU.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:46:45 AM EDT
What's good for the market isn't always good for the people.
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Spoken like a good socialist.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:46:59 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Be careful what you wish for. A post-collapse Europe would mean a patchwork of countries ruled by Communist and Nazi dictatorships, spoiling to go to war with one another. France would be ruled by the National Front, Britain by the UKIP, etc. And the dominant power in all this would be Vladimir Putin's Russia. Is this the "rebuilding" you want?
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Quoted:
Yep. The sooner it collapses then the sooner everything can be rebuilt.


Be careful what you wish for. A post-collapse Europe would mean a patchwork of countries ruled by Communist and Nazi dictatorships, spoiling to go to war with one another. France would be ruled by the National Front, Britain by the UKIP, etc. And the dominant power in all this would be Vladimir Putin's Russia. Is this the "rebuilding" you want?


So the only thing that'll save Europe from the nazis is a blank check to the FSA?

THAT'S the AlexanderA we've come to know and lo... er... well, know at least.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:47:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 10:48:00 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I guess there is some concern that the Greeks will thrown in with the Soviets, er "The Russian Hegemony" out of desperation
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Indeed. The Russians and Greeks already announced a tentative agreement for a pipeline through Greece (thus avoiding the Ukraine) a couple of weeks ago. My guess is that Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and the former Warsaw Pact countries, not to mention Germany, are a tad nervous at the idea of Greece falling under Putin's spell in return for keeping the welfare state alive. If yet another bailout package is pushed through at the 11th hour, I won't be at all surprised for the pipeline deal to quietly disappear. Potential sacrificial pawn.

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