Posted: 2/4/2001 8:42:47 PM EDT
Okay, Not sure if we have any lawyers on board - and I do expect this to be free legal advice [:D]
I have a couple lines on some Norinco NHM91s - one from Cali and one from Georgia. Both have thumbhole stocks, no bayonet lugs..etc etc. The only 'evil feature' is the detachable magazine.
Now according to the new 'law' as Im sure youre all aware - it specifically states that Norico, Mitchell Arms and Poly Techs are banned. However in the preceding paragraph it clearly outlines what is an assault weapon - blah blah blah -evil features as in the 94 ban. All preban Norincos, Poly Techs and Mitchells fall have all the evil goodies. Federally defined postbans as we all know - do not.
Now I hope what I have in front of me, is my ace in the hole so to speak -
I have a letter from Senator Farley which states the following:
[b]"The final bill simply enacts into state law the federal assault weapon ban. Therefore, this state legislation does not affect any guns which are legally owned or are purchased in compliance with federal law." - July 7, 2000 - Senator Hugh T. Farley[/b]
So whats up?? Anyone in any other state (of course minus Cali) can buy and sell used -not currently manufactured - Norinco NHM91's without a hassle.
Any fellow NYers care to chime in?
I see a lot of gun shops in NY selling the "evil" black guns. I also have a letter from senator Bruno stating the same thing as Senator Farley stated in your letter.
I for one am not worried about it.....The thing you need to decide is whether new laws in NY will be passed that mimick Cali law. Is it worth the time, money, and effort to buy these weapons here when you may possibly have to turn them in or sell them in the future to comply?
SXP1 - I know exactly what you mean. I still see SAR series, AR series, FALs etc on the store shelves - brand new ones brought in after the 'ban.' The DCJS used to have something on their website further explaining it. However, its gone now, and nobody has a clue why.
I'm going to be calling a few of the 'black rifle shops' today and get the jist of how they are dealing with it. I know of two shops already who have stopped selling them to "avoid the hassles" - So in effect giving the antis exactly the result they wanted.
I'm not so concerned about one more rifle. I'm pass the point of worrying if I'll ever have to turn them in. I'll cross that bridge if we ever come to it.
I want to avoid sending up a red flag on the NHM91 however, and cut my gun owning days short.
Frank - Ive heard about the MAK90 being allowed in NJ. Wasnt there a court case regarding someone that had a MAK90? I think because the reciever didnt have AK47 on it - he was allowed to keep it. The state never appealed the decision
All in all, I think what will happen, is someone - possibly one of us NYers will get picked up because of some over zealous cop. But I refuse to stop purchasing "legal" firearms out of fear of what might happen. I have a spotless record, a devoted family life and am the farthest thing from a 'criminal' in the eyes of the state.
I've got two very pro gun attorneys close to the family and am ready to rumble if I'm set to be made an example of.
Its not the time to hide just yet.
I'll let you all know what info I get from the gunshops today!
Now according to the new 'law' as Im sure youre all aware - it specifically states that Norico, Mitchell Arms and Poly Techs are banned.
There's youre loophole! They said Norico! Not Norinco! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA! Just kidding....
If the point of the NY law as to ban AKs, then I don't think the NHM was contemplated.
There remains the possibility that SKSs are not covered by the ban and that Norinco imported/produced SKSs (or other non-"AW" firearms or rifles) before the ban. The ban would then not apply to all Norinco firearms thus rendering at least that portion of the law vague, but that may be an expensive test.
You will need to look at the legislative history of the bill and see if it contemplated banning the NHMs, or just the AKs (as I suspect). Submit that material to the AG and ask for their ruling. That may not conclusively protect you, but it will go an awfully long way.
Respond if I'm unclear.
[/quote]Is it worth the time, money, and effort to buy these weapons here when you may possibly have to turn them in or sell them in the future to comply?[/quote]
HK: For what it's worth I'm taking Governor Pataki and the NYS Senate at their word. If it was legal under federal law prior to November 1st then it is legal under NYS law.
From the Sponsors Memo of S8234:
"Since 1994, federal law has restricted the possession of assault weapons and large
capacity ammunition feeding devices. The provisions contained in this measure are
designed to ensure that New York State's already stringent gun laws [b]mirror the
The bill's definition of an "assault weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding
device," as well as [b]the exclusions and exemptions applicable to each, mirror the
current provisions of federal law defining and prohibiting activities related to a
"semiautomatic assault weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding device"[/b]
(see 18 U.S.C.§? a 30,31 and 922 v and w)[b]and the bill is not intended to prohibit
possession of any weapon that is not prohibited by federal law."[/b]
As to the future now that Pataki will be running for re-election I don't think he will be supporting any additional GC legislation. He will need all the support he can get. Unfortunately we don't have much of a choice at this point either. I could be wrong
on this point. Time will tell.
I'll keep some extra cash on hand for your bail![:D]
BTW, where is HiramRanger with the inside information?
Division of Criminal Justice Services
ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN: Effective November 1, 2000
Since 1994, federal law has restricted the possession of assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices. New York law, however, did not specifically address the possession and sale of military-style weapons or those with excessively large ammunition capacities.
The provisions contained in Chapter 189 [b]mirror[/b] the current provisions of federal law by defining and prohibiting activities related to a "semiautomatic assault weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding device".
The term "assault weapon" includes a designated list of federally barred firearms, as well as semiautomatic rifles, shotguns or pistols that possess at least two specified characteristics, such as a folding or telescoping stock, a bayonet mount, a flash suppressor or a silencer. A specific list of weapons manufactured on or before October 1, 1993, which are set forth in federal law, are not banned. The term "large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine or similar device manufactured after September 13, 1994 which has the capacity to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition, but does not include a tubular device which only accepts .22 caliber ammunition.
The Penal Law will now include the possession of an assault weapon and the possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device within
its definition of the class D violent felony of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree. Thus, the law will now treat the illegal possession of an unloaded assault weapon as seriously as the possession of a loaded handgun. Moreover, because this law adds an "assault weapon" to the definition of a "firearm," the current penalties attaching to the criminal use of a firearm will also apply to the use of an assault weapon.
BTW, where is HiramRanger with the inside information?