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Posted: 2/10/2014 11:45:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2015 10:14:34 PM EDT by Zam18th]
Disregard the schedule.  I will try to continue on a per paper basis.  Any and all contributions welcome.
Related to this thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1588605_Have_you_read_any_Federalist_Papers____Update_on_2___Anti_Federalist_.html

Figures in the painting
This is a thread for those interested in reading and discussing the Federalist/Anti-Federalist debate.  If you have read neither side, one side, or both sides, this thread is for you.  Use it how you wish.  If you have already read some, read just what you have missed, reread them, skim them, or just discuss the week's readings.  Post passages, questions, thoughts, whatever.  I will try to keep it indexed so that people joining late can catch up or just jump right it.  Ultimately, this is meant to be an educational thread and I ask that (when necessary ) you be helpful to each other.
The founders pledged to each other their lives, fortunes and sacred honor.  Honor them by giving up a little time every week.  Whether this thread succeeds or drops to the archives is up to YOU.  This thread will be what you make of it.
Some background on the writings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Papers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifederalist_Papers
Sources for the Readings (Free, unless noted)
Federalist
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/federalist-papers
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa00.htm
Anti-Federalist
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/anti-federalist-papers
Ebooks
http://www.amazon.com/Federalist-Papers-Alexander-Hamilton-ebook/dp/B004TPP976/
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1404 -Federalist
http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Federalist-Papers-Geroge-Clinton-ebook/dp/B001BKDVFY/ ($0.99)
Audio Books
http://www.booksshouldbefree.com/book/the-federalist-papers-by-alexander-hamilton-john-jay-and-james-madison
https://librivox.org/the-anti-federalist-papers-by-patrick-henry/
Apps
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/constitution-federalist-papers/id378120928
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hotrod.reference.thefederalistpapers
1828 Dictionary
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/
Supplemental Reading
The Records of the Federal Convention, Max Farrand
Jonathan Elliot, The Debates in the Several State Conventions
http://www.constitution.org/elliot.htm
Jefferson's letter to Madison
Firefox Add-on
Text Highlighter
Recommended reading prior to Week 1:  Franklin's speech on the Consitiution, Z's response
In the interest of keeping things simple, I used Borden's popular ordering/selection of the Anti-Federalist writings.





















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Week


















Federalist Papers

















Anti-Federalist












Begins on










Week 01



February 17, 2014



February 23, 2014







#1, #2

















#1, #2












2










Week 02



February 24, 2014



March 2, 2014







#3, #4

















#3, #4












2
















Week 03




March 3, 2014



March 9, 2014







#5, #6

















#5, #6












2
















Week 04




March 10, 2014



March 16, 2014







#7, #8

















#7, #8











3
















Week 05




March 17, 2014



March 23, 2014







#9, #10

















#9, #10











3















Week 06




March 24, 2014



March 30, 2014







#11, #12

















#11, #12











3









Week 07




March 31, 2014



April 6, 2014







#13, #14

















#13, #14











3









Week 08




April 7, 2014



April 13, 2014







#15, #16

















#15, #16











3









Week 09




April 14, 2014



April 20, 2014







#17, #18

















#17











3












Week 10



-----



-----







#19, #20

















#18-20











3









Week 11



Dec 20, 2015

















#21, #22

















#21, #22











3









Week 12





















#23, #24

















#23, #24











New Cell









Week 13






















#25, #26

















#25, #26











New Cell









Week 14






















#27, #28

















#27, #28











New Cell









Week 15






















#29, #30

















#29, #30-31











New Cell









Week 16






















#31, #32

















#32












New Cell









Week 17






















#33, #34

















#33, #34











New Cell









Week 18






















#35, #36

















#35, #36











New Cell









Week 19






















#37, #38

















#37, #38











New Cell









Week 20





















#39, #40

















#39, #40











New Cell









Week 21





















#41, #42

















#41-43 I












New Cell









Week 22





















#43, #44

















#42-43 II, #44












New Cell









Week 23






















#45, #46

















#45, #46











New Cell









Week 24






















#47, #48

















#47, #48











New Cell









Week 25






















#49, #50

















#49, #50











New Cell









Week 26






















#51, #52

















#51, #52











New Cell









Week 27






















#53, #54

















#53, #54











New Cell









Week 28






















#55, #56

















#55, #56











New Cell









Week 29






















#57, #58

















#57, #58











New Cell









Week 30






















#59, #60

















#59, #60











New Cell









Week 31





















#61, #62

















#61, #62











New Cell









Week 32





















#63, #64

















#63, #64











New Cell









Week 33






















#65, #66

















#65, #66











New Cell









Week 34






















#67, #68

















#67, #68











New Cell









Week 35






















#69, #70

















#69, #70











New Cell









Week 36






















#71, #72

















#71, #72











New Cell









Week 37






















#73, #74

















#73, #74











New Cell









Week 38






















#75, #76

















#75, #76-77











New Cell









Week 39






















#77, #78

















#78-79











New Cell









Week 40






















#79, #80

















#80












New Cell









Week 41





















#81, #82

















#81, #82











New Cell









Week 42





















#83, #84

















#83, #84











New Cell









Week 43






















#85

















#85












New Cell









Week 44





















































New Cell









Week 45



































































 
 

 

 

 
 

 

 
 
 

 

 
 
 

 




 
 

 
 

 
 






 
 
Link Posted: 2/10/2014 11:46:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2015 7:55:20 AM EDT by Zam18th]

Subject guide adapted from the Wikipedia page and here (Note, this is intended for reference and may differ from the above schedule.)  Readings that are not included on the schedule will be in bold.





Subject                                                -----------------------------------Anti-Federalist                   --------------Federalist



















































































Need for stronger UnionJohn Dewitt I and IIFederalist  1–6
Bill of RightsJohn Dewitt IIJames Wilson 10/6/87, Federalist  84
Nature and powers of the UnionPatrick Henry, 6/5/88Federalist  1, 14, 15
Responsibility and checks in self-governmentCentinel 1Federalist  10, 51
Extent of Union, states' rights, Bill of Rights, taxationPennsylvania Minority: Brutus  1Federalist  10, 32, 33, 35, 36, 39, 45, 84
Extended republics, taxationFederal Farmer  I and IIFederalist  8, 10, 14, 35, 36
Broad construction, taxing powersBrutus  VIFederalist  23, 30–34
Defense, standing armiesBrutus XFederalist  24–29
The judiciaryBrutus  XI, XII, XVFederalist  78–83
Government resting on the peopleJohn DeWitt IIIFederalist  23, 49
Executive powerCato  VFederalist  67
Regulating electionsCato  VIIFederalist  59
House of RepresentativesBrutus  IVFederalist  27, 28, 52–54, 57
The SenateBrutus XVIFederalist  62, 63
Representation in House of Representatives and SenateMelancton Smith, 6/20-6/27-88Federalist  52–57, 62–63

Additional Resources Relating to the Period

http://constitution.org/c5/
http://oll.libertyfund.org/ Online Library of Liberty
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/ratification/timeline-federalist/
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/story-of-america
http://loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/jefffed.html Thomas Jefferson Exhibit
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/default.asp The Avalon Project
http://mises.org/Literature
Foundational Documents and Readings




Second Treatise of Government by John Locke




The Magna Carta




English Bill of Rights 1689




The Declaration of Arbroath 1320 (Scotland's Declaration of Independence)



The Dutch Declaration of Independence, 1581



The Spirit of the Laws by Montesquieu

Commentaries on the Laws of England by Sir William Blackstone
 

 
 
 

 


 
 

 
 

 




 
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 6:01:34 PM EDT
Placeholder
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:12:33 PM EDT
IN. Thanks OP - will be participating.
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:15:23 PM EDT
Anti-Federalist papers are much better.
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:21:42 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EasTexan:


Anti-Federalist papers are much better.
View Quote
Indeed...

 
Also I suggest the ratification debates as they spell out what was actually ratified as opposed to arguments leading up to the contests in the several states....

Specifically the transcripts from the ratification convention in Virginia.

University of Wisconsin has them all.
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:29:37 PM EDT
IN and tag!
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:31:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CONKLE73:
Indeed...   Also I suggest the ratification debates as they spell out what was actually ratified as opposed to arguments leading up to the contests in the several states....
Specifically the transcripts from the ratification convention in Virginia.
University of Wisconsin has them all.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CONKLE73:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Anti-Federalist papers are much better.
Indeed...   Also I suggest the ratification debates as they spell out what was actually ratified as opposed to arguments leading up to the contests in the several states....
Specifically the transcripts from the ratification convention in Virginia.
University of Wisconsin has them all.



I honestly think my favorite is Franklin's Opposition to Executive Salaries.

"Besides these evils, Sir, though we may set out in the beginning with moderate salaries, we shall find that such will not be of long continuance. Reasons will never be wanting for proposed augmentations. And there will always be a party for giving more to the rulers, that the rulers may be able in return to give more money to them."

His prophecy of our current state is absolutely eerie...
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:46:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2014 9:52:06 PM EDT by EasTexan]
OP, I hope this thread takes off but I'm not holding my breath.

Ive tried to get GD to have discussions on 18th century political philosophy. It just never catches with all of the .22 ammo and guilty or not guilty thread on page one.
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:47:47 PM EDT
Subscribing.
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:51:53 PM EDT
IN
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:52:21 PM EDT
Old school is now new school once again.
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 9:57:43 PM EDT
In
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 10:02:27 PM EDT
In. I read the first few on my kindle earlier this week
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 10:03:54 PM EDT
tag
been waiting for this one
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 10:25:16 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CONKLE73:



Indeed...  
Also I suggest the ratification debates as they spell out what was actually ratified as opposed to arguments leading up to the contests in the several states....
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CONKLE73:



Originally Posted By EasTexan:

Anti-Federalist papers are much better.
Indeed...  
Also I suggest the ratification debates as they spell out what was actually ratified as opposed to arguments leading up to the contests in the several states....

Specifically the transcripts from the ratification convention in Virginia.

University of Wisconsin has them all.


I'm glad you brought that up, I almost forgot to add the ebook version of the debates.  Thank you, sir.





 
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 10:27:13 PM EDT
In on this
Link Posted: 2/11/2014 10:47:57 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 74novaman:
Subscribing.
View Quote

Link Posted: 2/11/2014 11:01:43 PM EDT
In
Link Posted: 2/12/2014 1:26:53 AM EDT


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EasTexan:



OP, I hope this thread takes off but I'm not holding my breath.





Ive tried to get GD to have discussions on 18th century political philosophy. It just never catches with all of the .22 ammo and guilty or not guilty thread on page one.
View Quote



I did consider naming the thread "neckbeards buying up all of the pressure washers?" for the cheap views.  
I know what you mean, but on the other hand I think the ongoing nature of this one could give it a chance.  Like a snowball rolling downhill, interest will hopefully grow as we progress.  On the other hand if everyone does the reading and doesn't post anything, it will die the slow death.  





So, you lurkers out there, get ready for some posting.  Even if it is as little as "Interesting reading this week" or "+1"
 
 
Link Posted: 2/12/2014 1:35:43 AM EDT
i actually have all of them in a hard bound book
Link Posted: 2/12/2014 1:37:52 AM EDT


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zam18th:
I did consider naming the thread "neckbeards buying up all of the pressure washers?" for the cheap views.  
I know what you mean, but on the other hand I think the ongoing nature of this one could give it a chance.  Like a snowball rolling downhill, interest will hopefully grow as we progress.  On the other hand if everyone does the reading and doesn't post anything, it will die the slow death.  





So, you lurkers out there, get ready for some posting.  Even if it is as little as "Interesting reading this week" or "+1"





   
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zam18th:





Originally Posted By EasTexan:


OP, I hope this thread takes off but I'm not holding my breath.





Ive tried to get GD to have discussions on 18th century political philosophy. It just never catches with all of the .22 ammo and guilty or not guilty thread on page one.



I did consider naming the thread "neckbeards buying up all of the pressure washers?" for the cheap views.  
I know what you mean, but on the other hand I think the ongoing nature of this one could give it a chance.  Like a snowball rolling downhill, interest will hopefully grow as we progress.  On the other hand if everyone does the reading and doesn't post anything, it will die the slow death.  





So, you lurkers out there, get ready for some posting.  Even if it is as little as "Interesting reading this week" or "+1"





   
+1 bump  Still catching up, gathering questions.




 
 
Link Posted: 2/12/2014 1:40:53 AM EDT
OST
Link Posted: 2/12/2014 1:45:25 AM EDT
For free people to dissolve the bonds of illegitimate government, we must understand that which came before us.  How, for, when and why.
Link Posted: 2/12/2014 3:04:14 PM EDT


       
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Bool:



+1 bump  Still catching up, gathering questions.

   
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Bool:



Originally Posted By Zam18th:


Originally Posted By EasTexan:

OP, I hope this thread takes off but I'm not holding my breath.



Ive tried to get GD to have discussions on 18th century political philosophy. It just never catches with all of the .22 ammo and guilty or not guilty thread on page one.


I did consider naming the thread "neckbeards buying up all of the pressure washers?" for the cheap views.  





I know what you mean, but on the other hand I think the ongoing nature of this one could give it a chance.  Like a snowball rolling downhill, interest will hopefully grow as we progress.  On the other hand if everyone does the reading and doesn't post anything, it will die the slow death.  



So, you lurkers out there, get ready for some posting.  Even if it is as little as "Interesting reading this week" or "+1"



   
+1 bump  Still catching up, gathering questions.

   






 
Link Posted: 2/12/2014 11:37:44 PM EDT
Post #1 is now pretty much done.  There may be a few minor additions in the next couple of weeks but nothing major.  


 
Link Posted: 2/12/2014 11:45:22 PM EDT
Subscribed. Nicely done.
Link Posted: 2/12/2014 11:49:08 PM EDT
You got me. IN!
Link Posted: 2/13/2014 4:03:54 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mp9fan:


Subscribed. Nicely done.
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Originally Posted By mp9fan:


Subscribed. Nicely done.



Originally Posted By superbowtie:


You got me. IN!


Thank you, gentlemen.  Welcome







 
Link Posted: 2/13/2014 11:05:26 PM EDT
Thursday evening bump.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 12:08:10 AM EDT
Madison's Journal also has some good stuff contained within.

And in
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 1:12:18 AM EDT
Keep in mind that POTUS sent federal troops to dissenting states on two occasions, the first  "nullification crisis"  quashed by Andrew Jackson.  Just because some of our Founders argued for or against a principal doesn't mean it is, or can be accepted by DC as "constitutional".  I almost blew a gasket reading Ron Paul's book, and I guess he thinks that because it was argued in the Federalist Papers, it must be the law.  Well, at least one of my ancestors was forced to surrender his horse, sword, and belief that States had rights.  Before the blood was dry on his saddle it was a settled issue that the tyranny of Washington can and will be forced upon us all.  That is the Republic we live in now, and we can only hope to preserve what is left of the Founders' principals as we move forward.  Jefferson weeps in his tomb.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 1:31:15 AM EDT
Thanks for starting the discussion. This subject has always intrigued me being that I grew up in a household with a brilliant mother who was a US history teacher.
I guess I need to do some reading.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 1:33:32 AM EDT


Brilliant...!!!


Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:26:55 AM EDT
Subscribed.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:28:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Eli822:
Subscribed.
View Quote

Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:31:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By grn06rubi:

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Originally Posted By grn06rubi:
Originally Posted By Eli822:
Subscribed.


me 2
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:38:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2014 3:39:44 AM EDT by Giltweasel]
Worth reading, even in the face of TL;DR opposition.

It's rare enough to see or hear mention of the Federalist Papers, but it's a near complete information vacuum when anyone brings up the Anti-federalists.  I had numerous history professors get the deer in the headlights look just even saying George Mason's name.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:51:49 AM EDT
tag -scribed
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 11:18:54 AM EDT
I'm game!
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:10:31 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Giltweasel:
Worth reading, even in the face of TL;DR opposition.

It's rare enough to see or hear mention of the Federalist Papers, but it's a near complete information vacuum when anyone brings up the Anti-federalists. I had numerous history professors get the deer in the headlights look just even saying George Mason's name.
View Quote




Both collections were required readings in my Constitutional History class.  I need to dig up the sheet:  Since many of the papers were written in response to something the other side had written, we read them in sets for context.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:18:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Giltweasel:
Worth reading, even in the face of TL;DR opposition.

It's rare enough to see or hear mention of the Federalist Papers, but it's a near complete information vacuum when anyone brings up the Anti-federalists.  I had numerous history professors get the deer in the headlights look just even saying George Mason's name.
View Quote



Same here, especially in my poli sci classes.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:21:03 PM EDT
Thank you for doing this. It will be a great thread.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:23:18 PM EDT
In on 1 :)
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 3:23:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Anti-Federalist papers are much better.
View Quote


Also this.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 4:02:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EasTexan:



I honestly think my favorite is Franklin's Opposition to Executive Salaries.

"Besides these evils, Sir, though we may set out in the beginning with moderate salaries, we shall find that such will not be of long continuance. Reasons will never be wanting for proposed augmentations. And there will always be a party for giving more to the rulers, that the rulers may be able in return to give more money to them."

His prophecy of our current state is absolutely eerie...
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By CONKLE73:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Anti-Federalist papers are much better.
Indeed...   Also I suggest the ratification debates as they spell out what was actually ratified as opposed to arguments leading up to the contests in the several states....
Specifically the transcripts from the ratification convention in Virginia.
University of Wisconsin has them all.



I honestly think my favorite is Franklin's Opposition to Executive Salaries.

"Besides these evils, Sir, though we may set out in the beginning with moderate salaries, we shall find that such will not be of long continuance. Reasons will never be wanting for proposed augmentations. And there will always be a party for giving more to the rulers, that the rulers may be able in return to give more money to them."

His prophecy of our current state is absolutely eerie...

Not really. The President Of The United States gets paid dirt compared to the CEO of an equally sized company.

There is no equally sized company, so don't bother trying to check.

That principle sounds noble, but it isn't. It would ensure that only the very rich could pursue politics. Government should not be the exclusive province of the very rich.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 4:30:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sigp226:

Not really. The President Of The United States gets paid dirt compared to the CEO of an equally sized company.

There is no equally sized company, so don't bother trying to check.

That principle sounds noble, but it isn't. It would ensure that only the very rich could pursue politics. Government should not be the exclusive province of the very rich.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sigp226:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By CONKLE73:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Anti-Federalist papers are much better.
Indeed...   Also I suggest the ratification debates as they spell out what was actually ratified as opposed to arguments leading up to the contests in the several states....
Specifically the transcripts from the ratification convention in Virginia.
University of Wisconsin has them all.



I honestly think my favorite is Franklin's Opposition to Executive Salaries.

"Besides these evils, Sir, though we may set out in the beginning with moderate salaries, we shall find that such will not be of long continuance. Reasons will never be wanting for proposed augmentations. And there will always be a party for giving more to the rulers, that the rulers may be able in return to give more money to them."

His prophecy of our current state is absolutely eerie...

Not really. The President Of The United States gets paid dirt compared to the CEO of an equally sized company.

There is no equally sized company, so don't bother trying to check.

That principle sounds noble, but it isn't. It would ensure that only the very rich could pursue politics. Government should not be the exclusive province of the very rich.


If your rationale for paying the President anything at all is that doing so enables those who are not "very rich" to become President, I have to disagree with you. The resources required to have a realistic shot at the office far exceed any reasonable salary. The difference between $0 and $200k / year is negligible.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 4:39:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Anti-Federalist papers are much better.
View Quote

Link Posted: 2/14/2014 6:58:09 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Giltweasel:


Worth reading, even in the face of TL;DR opposition.



It's rare enough to see or hear mention of the Federalist Papers, but it's a near complete information vacuum when anyone brings up the Anti-federalists.  I had numerous history professors get the deer in the headlights look just even saying George Mason's name.

View Quote






None of my professors spent any time on the Anti-Federalists either.  My only exposure was reading some of them on my own, maybe 15 years ago.  



 
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 7:47:48 PM EDT


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:



Madison's Journal also has some good stuff contained within.





And in
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Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:



Madison's Journal also has some good stuff contained within.





And in



Good call.  For anyone interested, it can be found here along with everything else Madison.  http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?id=1350&option=com_content&task=view
The below has Madison's federal convention writings included, though I'm not sure it is a complete record.  





The Records of the Federal Convention, Max Farrand
Farrand's Records remains the single best source for discussions of
the Constitutional Convention. The notes taken at that time by James Madison,
and later revised by him, form the largest single block of material other than
the official proceedings. The three volumes also includes notes and letters
by many other participants, as well as the various constitutional plans
proposed during the convention.







 
 
Link Posted: 2/15/2014 2:42:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
If your rationale for paying the President anything at all is that doing so enables those who are not "very rich" to become President, I have to disagree with you. The resources required to have a realistic shot at the office far exceed any reasonable salary. The difference between $0 and $200k / year is negligible.
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If you think that, I suggest you try living on less than nothing for four years. Remember that all your other obligations will not be suspended during this time.
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