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Posted: 1/2/2004 5:27:17 AM EDT


Fat is burned and leaves through your urine right?

For years this has always been my understanding. But a Nurse I know is telling me that that's not true.. she says only ketones are released through the urine, that being a by- product of fat break down.

I thought it was the end product of the fat break down and almost 100% of fat burned exits via your urine.  This Girl is extremely smart and would only take an answer from a qualified source

I can't find anything through google..  but will continue to look..

I would be open to anyone having any input.


Thanks

Realist out
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 5:48:53 AM EDT
WAY off the mark.

Find one of [url=https://www.amazon.com/dp/0721659446?tag=arfcom00-20#reader-link]these[/url]. Read it and in a few years you'll get an inkling of how it all works.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 5:52:59 AM EDT
You are correct, fat is burned.

It is burned as fuel for the body, therefor there is nothing left for the body to expel.

If its not burned, it is stored.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 6:00:08 AM EDT
Fat is not actually burned.  Ah-nold has roughly the same number of fat cells as Roseanne.   Roseannes are storing more than Ah-nold's cells are storing.

Just like muscle...the same cells are just bigger or smaller depending on how much they work.

That's how it was`splained to me....
Scott
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 6:09:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2004 6:11:51 AM EDT by realist]
Originally Posted By Scottman:
Fat is not actually burned.  Ah-nold has roughly the same number of fat cells as Roseanne.   Roseannes are storing more than Ah-nold's cells are storing.

Just like muscle...the same cells are just bigger or smaller depending on how much they work.

That's how it was`splained to me....
Scott
View Quote


Jeez Scott.. now I am confused. I was under the understanding that fat cells could be built just like muscle tissue.  once you build a fat cell ( by overeating) you have it for life, unless surgically removed. that's why fat people put weight back on quickly as they have all these new fat cells .. when they lose weight they just diminish in size.. then they don't have to build them again.. just blow them up quickly by over eating.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 6:12:54 AM EDT
All you have to do is eat a modified fat "Wow" potato chip and you will know exactly which opening is used for the elimination of fat.

By the way, several drugs on the market have side effects that list "oily discharge" as one of them.

Enough of a hint?
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 6:23:00 AM EDT
You exhale most expended energy as CO2.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 6:28:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2004 6:29:47 AM EDT by Dredd308]
Your body does use fat as a fuel, it does burn.

Yes, extra fat can be removed from your body by other means.
Eat foods with alot of fiber.
Fiber traps fat cells and you crap them out. Thats why if you eat alot of green/red peppers you get the shits.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 6:30:56 AM EDT
Try posting your question inthe fitness forum, someone, (Ed), will know....
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 6:56:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Try posting your question inthe fitness forum, someone, (Ed), will know....
View Quote


been there, done that  [:(] no traffic, no responce. I needed an answer by tonight. I have to come up with a documented source.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 6:59:36 AM EDT
The number of fat cells you have is genetic and remains constant, the size of the fat cells is determined by your caloric intake and activity level, eating too much of anything will be fatting, excess carbs, proteins and fats will be converted to fat and stored, making your fat cells fatter, consuming high fiber foods with fat in that meal, reduces the fat absorption because the fiber soaks up some of the fat as it goes thru your gut and then is pooped out, that's why high fiber diets are good for lowering cholesterol. As the Atkins diet says, low carbs, eat all the fat, yes this causes your body to adjust and burn the fat as it's primary fuel and a byproduct of fat being metabolized is Ketones, that are eliminated thru your urine. In my humble opinion all of these crazy diets don't have any permanent staying power, your best bet is common sense, eat a balanced diet, but reduce the total number of calories and do some exercise to raise you metabolic rate, that is a life style change, but a good one and will get results.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 7:02:17 AM EDT
no really... it is exhaled as CO2
http://blc.biolab.udel.edu/Harding/410.rtf
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 7:07:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 7:20:26 AM EDT


psychotr..  thats intersting..  I now have a problem goin to the gym where another 200 peaple are loosing weight through their breath and I am am breathing their fat back in me..yuk !  [:)]


Ed, Happy New Year.. [:)] I'll be in tonight.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 7:22:05 AM EDT


Hapjack...  Good post.. TY [:)]
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 7:25:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2004 7:31:31 AM EDT by drjarhead]
Basics:

Fat is a high energy material--9Cal/g vs 4Cal/g for prot and carbos

Fatty acids are the primary source of energy for the heart. Glucose doesn't supply enough energy rapidly enough.

Adipose cells are the ones that store fat. They are constant, enlarging or decreasing in size as fat is stored or "burned"

Fat acids are degraded(oxidized) by two carbon units at a time resulting in reduction of NAD and FAD to NADH and FADH2 as well as production of CO2 and water. The NADH and FADH which are produced are converted to ATP in the respiratory chain of the [b]mitochondria[/b] whcih exist inside the cells of our body. ATP is degraded for energy to drive chemical reactions within the body--it is our "energy currency". Ketones are produced in fat degradation and are further degraded for energy with the products being recycled. These ketones may show up in urine (during what is loosely termed starvation states--ie uncontrolled diabetes, not eating during illness, malnutrition, etc.) as this is a small molecule than can cross the renal glomerulus. They, like so many other things, are not completely reabsorbed in the kidney if the concentration is high enough. However, fat is NOT excreted in the urine, per se.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 7:31:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By realist:


psychotr..  thats intersting..  I now have a problem goin to the gym where another 200 peaple are loosing weight through their breath and I am am breathing their fat back in me..yuk !  [:)]


Ed, Happy New Year.. [:)] I'll be in tonight.
View Quote


And if you are trying to lose weight, DO NOT eat any dry ice. I cannot emphasize this enough.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 7:51:17 AM EDT
My wife is a registered dietitian, and is standing here dictating:

When you exercise for a sustained period or are in a starvation state --dieting--, you never burn just fat. Some carbohydrates (glucose) burn too, and likely some protein. Fat is converted into ketones, ketones are moved into the mitochondria to produce energy (adenosine triphosphate). During fat catabolism, ketones are in the blood stream and are eliminated in the urine as well as respiration (morning breath).
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 8:12:15 AM EDT


Thank you all for your feedback.. so many conflicting answers. [:(]


Good post DR Jarhead  

and Thank You  Mrs. Jarhead 22  

Another 2 conflicting explanations from two professions
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 8:18:02 AM EDT
drjarhead is right. I wasn't about to post details of the Krebs cycle, glad somebody did.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 8:19:57 AM EDT


I think the answer is someplace in here..


via what Ed senior said.. [rolleyes]  [:)]

[img]http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/gif/tcaw.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 9:06:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2004 11:53:58 AM EDT by drjarhead]
Originally Posted By realist:


Thank you all for your feedback.. so many conflicting answers. [:(]


Good post DR Jarhead  

and Thank You  Mrs. Jarhead 22  

Another 2 conflicting explanations from two professions
View Quote


Not really conflicting at all. 2 angles of view at the same process primarily.

1 acetylacetone(ketone) is produced per fatty acid oxidized.

The Kreb's or TCA cycle has little to do with fatty acid metabolism except for recycling of byproducts. The energy conversion occurs in the respiratory chain of the mitochondria which are a set of cytochrome proteins analogous in a way to hemoglobin(don't have time to delineate all of that-I have to get to work). Anyway, electron transfers via the molecules I discussed above(NAD and FAD) happen here with subsequent production of ATP which is then used by the body on an as needed basis. Glucose is also stored as glycogen(long chains of glucose analogous to starch in plants) in liver and muscle tissue and "cut up" into glucose molecules when needed as well.
The respiratory chain in mitochondria is where carbon monoxide and cyanide poisoning do there damage, FWIW. It is here that O2 is utilized to oxidize glucose and CO2 is released. We simply inhale and exhale these, repectively, thru the lungs.

Anyhow, the longest FA chain produced by the human body has 16 C's and can be oxidized to form 129 ATP. We get longer chain FA's from our diet and these are "essential fatty acids" (linoleic and linolenic acid) which are used to produce prostaglandin hormones by the body.
In contrast, 36 ATPs per molecule of glucose is possibe via the Kreb's Cycle and then the respiratory chain.

Of course, glucose is the predominant energy source for most of the body and protein can also be utilized(ineffecient) as Mrs Jarhead22 states. But you asked about fat...
As stated by me, however, the fatty acids are the primary source of energy for the heart due to their high number of energy rich C-C and C-H bonds.

FA's or their procducts cannot be directly converted into glucose, FWIW.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 9:51:11 AM EDT
SOUNDS like the average guy could understand that ..........[whacko]
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 9:55:04 AM EDT
You never Lose fat!!! You lose the carbohydrates the the fat cells are enpregnated with.

Noone is fat or thin, it is just some people store more carbohydrates in their fat cells, and this is called being fat, if your body has none stored up in your fat cells you are skinny.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 10:14:53 AM EDT
[homer]

"I am drought and famine resistant!"

[/homer]
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 11:17:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fireguy3:
You never Lose fat!!! You lose the carbohydrates the the fat cells are enpregnated with.

Noone is fat or thin, it is just some people store more carbohydrates in their fat cells, and this is called being fat, if your body has none stored up in your fat cells you are skinny.
View Quote


[BS2]
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 11:47:42 AM EDT
"When abnormal amounts of ketones are produced in the body (i.e. ketosis), they may appear in the urine or be expired as acetone (see physiological premise)."

"If glucose, ketones and fatty acids are all
available in the blood, ketones are the preferred fuel; that is they will be used preferentially in many tissues over
glucose and/or fatty acids. The primary tissues using ketones, when they are available, are brain, muscle, kidney
and intestine, but not the liver."

[url]http://www.biochem.arizona.edu/classes/bioc460/fall/html/lectures/lec33.pdf[/url]
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 12:16:57 PM EDT

So if I am understanding all the science correctly, it boils down to:

Fat is burned when you take the fork out of your mouth and start to exercise.

-Z
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 12:21:24 PM EDT
Dude, you do realize that if you pissed fat, it would be like shoving crisco out your dick [>(]
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 12:52:38 PM EDT


So..  the answer is


Fat is broken down or burned as energy, but is also perspired, crapped, exhaled  and slightly pissed from your body.


I guess the better question really should be, how do I burn fat without loosing muscle tissue? But that might be another thread..  It's  looks like I will have to eat Crow to this Nurse tonight.. [:(]


Thanks you DR Jarhead for you informative responses

and yours too rkbar15


realist out
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 2:46:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By realist:




I guess the better question really should be, how do I burn fat without loosing muscle tissue?


realist out
View Quote


That shouldn't be a problem unless you are suffering from malnutrition.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 4:22:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Originally Posted By realist:




I guess the better question really should be, how do I burn fat without loosing muscle tissue?


realist out
View Quote


That shouldn't be a problem unless you are suffering from malnutrition.
View Quote


Dr Jarhead,

I would in all honesty love to hear your thoughts and advise  on this. I'll post another thread so people can learn from it.. TY
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 4:44:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dredd308:
You are correct, fat is burned.

It is burned as fuel for the body, therefor there is nothing left for the body to expel.

If its not burned, it is stored.
View Quote


True unless you put your body into a ketonic state and then the fat is passed through waste (as in taking a dump)
If your body is in ketosis it does not process fat , it passes through the body very quick;y and does not get stored or burned.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 9:37:12 PM EDT
What the Doc said.  Horrendously Overly simplified Carbohydrates + O2 "burn" to CO2 and H2O  Your byproducts of combustion are "excreted" by exhalation (removal of CO2) via the lungs and urination (water, etc, out) through the kidneys and bladder.  Since we generally aren't finally tuned engines it isn't that simple.

The basic definition of life is an organism that eats, poops and reproduces.
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