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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/30/2005 11:01:15 AM EDT
with modern parallels.

Came across an old book about the Apache predations on the Mexicans. It was terrorism at it's worst. Al Queda would have been proud of Geronimo. A lot of Mexicans thought he/they were devils sent to punish them for their sins.

Anyway, General Crook and several of his junior officers were men worth reading about. I'm even thinking about taking a vacation and hiking into the Sierra Madres just to walk the territory where all this happened.

A lot of people thought that "war on terrorism" was unwinnable, too. It took General Crook's revolutionary methods to finally prevail, and they strike me as applicable today:

He used Apache scouts against renegade Apaches.

He weeded out the "equipment" that didn't perform in the rugged terrain, e.g. got rid of horses and switched to mules and learned to travel very light.

He insisted that his officers be scrupulously honest and honorable - they won the trust of a lot of the "enemy".

He patiently used a combination of carrots and sticks.

Link Posted: 7/30/2005 11:27:32 AM EDT
Excellent points!

Of course that was when the Officer Corps was made up of real men, patriots, instead of sycophants and affirmative action incompetents.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 12:51:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CommoMan:
.... that was when the Officer Corps was made up of real men, patriots, instead of sycophants and affirmative action incompetents.




I, ah, ahem... was an officer...
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 12:55:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2005 12:56:10 PM EDT by whoanelly]

Originally Posted By CommoMan:
Excellent points!

Of course that was when the Officer Corps was made up of real men, patriots, instead of sycophants and affirmative action incompetents.




I didn't realize the military was an affirmative action organization...

I am an officer, and I am neither a sycophant or an affirmative action candidate.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 12:57:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CommoMan:
Excellent points!

Of course that was when the Officer Corps was made up of real men, patriots, instead of sycophants and affirmative action incompetents.




You almost made it a whole year!
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 1:05:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By CommoMan:
.... that was when the Officer Corps was made up of real men, patriots, instead of sycophants and affirmative action incompetents.




I, ah, ahem... was an officer...



Yeah but you were a fighter pilot....not Army Infantry.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 1:09:43 PM EDT
There are officers who lead from the front, and officers who lead from the rear.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 2:33:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CommoMan:
Excellent points!

Of course that was when the Officer Corps was made up of real men, patriots, instead of sycophants and affirmative action incompetents.


I've got a brother who spent about 15 years as enlisted infantry before going to OCS, and is now a 1LT scout platoon leader in Baghdad who might take exception to this. I know I do.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 2:36:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2005 4:08:28 PM EDT by m24shooter]
Rodent:
There was a lot of that down here on the Rio Bravo. Go back to some of the Mexican War stories, particularly when the US Army employed to Rangers as scouts and supplemental light horse to their own forces. They were extremely effective, although the regular Army had some trouble accepting the methods used.

ETA:
I'd think twice about going down there to hike. It's not a real healthy place to be. Another officer I work with (who's family is from Mexico) said that he would not go across the river right now. Look into what's gong on Nuevo Laredo for a good indication of what the environment is like down there.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 6:08:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
with modern parallels.

Came across an old book about the Apache predations on the Mexicans. It was terrorism at it's worst. Al Queda would have been proud of Geronimo. A lot of Mexicans thought he/they were devils sent to punish them for their sins.

Anyway, General Crook and several of his junior officers were men worth reading about. I'm even thinking about taking a vacation and hiking into the Sierra Madres just to walk the territory where all this happened.

A lot of people thought that "war on terrorism" was unwinnable, too. It took General Crook's revolutionary methods to finally prevail, and they strike me as applicable today:

He used Apache scouts against renegade Apaches.

He weeded out the "equipment" that didn't perform in the rugged terrain, e.g. got rid of horses and switched to mules and learned to travel very light.

He insisted that his officers be scrupulously honest and honorable - they won the trust of a lot of the "enemy".

He patiently used a combination of carrots and sticks.




Guess you never saw the real story in the movie "Broken Arrow".
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 12:05:06 AM EDT
Not to hijack the thread, but what did you fly Rodent?
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 12:36:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Not to hijack the thread, but what did you fly Rodent?



He sat in the little airplane rides in front of the super-markets while his mom was shopping and he made vvvvroom noises.


Link Posted: 7/31/2005 4:41:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bblake00:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Not to hijack the thread, but what did you fly Rodent?



He sat in the little airplane rides in front of the super-markets while his mom was shopping and he made vvvvroom noises.





Uh, true, actually .

Then F-4's and A-4's as an adversary.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:30:21 AM EDT
F-4 and A-4's huh? Kickass!!! The F-4 is one of my all time favorite fighter jets. I know it's been replaced by newer and more effective jets, but I still miss Old Double Ugly. I use to see them fairly regularly (KY ARNG unit RF-4C's) in the 1980's flying MTR 075. Nothing like high speed military jets 400 ft off the deck to bring a smile to your face (and cupped hands to your ears).
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 2:49:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 2:50:37 PM EDT by napalm]

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By CommoMan:
.... that was when the Officer Corps was made up of real men, patriots, instead of sycophants and affirmative action incompetents.




I, ah, ahem... was an officer...



Yeah but you were a fighter pilot....not Army Infantry.







Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:08:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:
Yeah but you were a fighter pilot....not Army Infantry.





I was Marine infantry before I went to flight school.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 12:39:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
with modern parallels.

Came across an old book about the Apache predations on the Mexicans. It was terrorism at it's worst. Al Queda would have been proud of Geronimo. A lot of Mexicans thought he/they were devils sent to punish them for their sins.

Anyway, General Crook and several of his junior officers were men worth reading about. I'm even thinking about taking a vacation and hiking into the Sierra Madres just to walk the territory where all this happened.

A lot of people thought that "war on terrorism" was unwinnable, too. It took General Crook's revolutionary methods to finally prevail, and they strike me as applicable today:

He used Apache scouts against renegade Apaches.

He weeded out the "equipment" that didn't perform in the rugged terrain, e.g. got rid of horses and switched to mules and learned to travel very light.

He insisted that his officers be scrupulously honest and honorable - they won the trust of a lot of the "enemy".

He patiently used a combination of carrots and sticks.




Rodent:
Sounds like a great read, what's the name of the book? author?

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:37:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Joaquin:
Rodent:
Sounds like a great read, what's the name of the book? author?




Now I can't find it. I think it was "Tales of the Old West". It's out of print, I found it in a used book store.
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