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Posted: 2/13/2007 6:30:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2007 6:54:01 PM EST by Burley]
VCDL FOIA results

Check the top of page 31. "their right to bear arms" in quotes, as if in jest.

Shame shame shame on the subjects for knowing their rights.

Might be a dupe.

Loved the way the offending officers felt it necessary to refer to the carriers as 'assclowns' and 'fn retards'.

Link Posted: 2/13/2007 8:04:31 PM EST
everone afeard of the popo?
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 8:20:03 PM EST
Should have been more observant of your post:


Check the top of page 31


Our POS computers at work won't load that big an Acrobat file.
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 8:24:44 PM EST
They are the only ones professional enough to not be assclowns and retards
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 8:28:44 PM EST
no surprise....
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 8:39:58 PM EST
During MDC (mobile data computer) training for our fire department we were reminded several times that everything we type on there is subject to subponea. Appearantly nobody thought to tell them folks.


And eight officers? Thank God there was no real crime going on.
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 8:41:35 PM EST
Let's see.......police receive report of men with guns.....they respond to investigate. ID those involved. Case closed, no crime......move along....nothing to see here.

Case "reopened" by FOIA request ............pretty stupid move if there is no alterior motive involved with the incident.




Link Posted: 2/13/2007 8:45:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2007 8:49:48 PM EST by BrandonP]
Notice this:




P14:

in the future even though the call is a serv. request, if there is a report of weapons, can we at least try to send as many ofcs as there are weapons? there were 6 w/ guns & a few of them got a rather nasty attitude even though there were about 8 of us.


There WERE more officers than suspects with weapons, because 8 is a bigger number than 6, ASSCLOWN.


But my favorite part is this.




P26:

"This group in years past attempted the same type of act in the Fredericksburg area. They are lawsuit shopping. This might warrant a quick reminder to the troops about state law."



So...cops only have to obey the law when citizens know their rights?

OK officer, feel free to fingerfuck my rights and skirt aside the law, as long as I'm ignorant.
Link Posted: 2/14/2007 3:34:01 AM EST
The thing that pisses me off the most is the attitude of the police in their communications. If you open carry enough on that end of the state, sooner or later someone will call the popo on you. But most encounters (of which I have read) usually turn out fine.

This is def. one of the worst I've read about.
Link Posted: 2/14/2007 3:55:52 AM EST



it's nice to see how they type "right to bear arms" in the memo's. like it's some kind of hypothetical...


Link Posted: 2/14/2007 4:12:03 AM EST


Link Posted: 2/14/2007 4:47:59 AM EST
I don't see what the problem is. It seems that these guys got their point across; now every cop in that area will know, in no uncertain terms, that there is a "right to keep and bear arms". The police response might be a bit flipant, but they got the message...
Link Posted: 2/14/2007 4:57:51 AM EST
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.
Link Posted: 2/14/2007 5:08:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.


How were they looking for attention? They were merely observing the law. Methinks you place too much faith in the statements of the high and mighty.

Lawsuit shopping? If that means making sure that every local government in this state observes the law, then perhaps we are.
Link Posted: 2/14/2007 5:57:51 AM EST
It appears there may have been statements or requests by the police for the people to conceal the handguns. Of course had they complied with that police request they would have been immediately arrested for carrying concealed.

Certain individuals (police officers) in that message chain did come through as sounding JBT-ish, and "assclowns" themselves.

What recourse, if any, is there against a uniformed police officer who requests that a crime be committed?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 5:58:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.


Excellent point.

The responding officers seemed to want to make a huge deal out of this, encouraging the owner to eject the diners, encouraging the diners to illegally conceal their weapons.

And now Manassas PD is dealing with the attention sought by these unprofessional officers.


Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:07:09 AM EST
Posted it in the other thread, so I'll repost it here:

I'm gonna have to start open carrying more often.

I don't see why we should give a shit about the sheeple's "feelings". "In your face" activism works (see the gay rights movement).

Wear your goddamn sidearm with pride, or lock it the fuck up so it's easier for them to find when they come to take it. It's a goddamn right. It's almost like some people are "ashamed" of it.

We need more of this. Let it be known they we can open carry, will do so, and if they fuck with us we'll sue them to hell and back.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:09:37 AM EST
VCDL will be showing up at the next Manassass City Council meeting on the 26th to voice their displeasure at the way this was "handled."
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:11:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.



Oh what a crock of shit.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:12:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 6:13:24 AM EST by mjohn3006]
I open carry all the time in Centreville(near Manassas). But it's usually walking around outside on trails, and usually in the dark. My roommate and I, also open carrying have also walked to the Giant grocery store a few times. It's amazing how many people don't really notice.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:16:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 6:16:50 AM EST by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.


I open carry a lot and I assure you I am never lawsuit shopping. In fact I walk around with a feeling of guilt like I am doing something wrong. But I am not. The more I do it the less guilty I feel. I should feel no guilt. I feel it because of the media, and that is just sad.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:23:13 AM EST
Fricking cops only know what they WANT...not what is legal...as a Virginian, I am ashamed to have these jerks call themselves Va police.....it is the us against them mentality on the cops part.

fred
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:25:18 AM EST



i open carry every day. i love ME.


Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:25:31 AM EST
These guys were just trying to start shit. I hope they spend a bunch of money on lawyers if they sue and lose big time.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:27:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.



Oh what a crock of shit.


+1
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:32:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
These guys were just trying to start shit. I hope they spend a bunch of money on lawyers if they sue and lose big time.


How dare they try to exercise their rights!

We're losing our goddamn gun rights. We should be trying to start shit.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:32:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
These guys were just trying to start shit. I hope they spend a bunch of money on lawyers if they sue and lose big time.



Do you know anything about VA law are you talking straight out of your ass? They are trying to start shit by complying with the laws directive to not CCW inside an establishment that serves alcohol? Or should people who CCW in VA just not be allowed to eat out according to you?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:33:29 AM EST
Pretty funny stuff.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:40:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By shawn21:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.



Oh what a crock of shit.


+1


Got to agree with Grunteled.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:41:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
These guys were just trying to start shit. I hope they spend a bunch of money on lawyers if they sue and lose big time.



How were they trying to start something? Looks like they did what they were legally obligated to do.

The officers were out of line, but it was a small issue.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:41:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:42:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By shawn21:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.



Oh what a crock of shit.


+1


Got to agree with Grunteled.


Yup.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:44:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 6:46:18 AM EST by Redmanfms]

An hour later a captain of the Fredericksburg Police Department replied that a group of men had "attempted the same type of act" in the Fredericksburg area and that they were "lawsuit shopping."


It doesn't matter if that's what they were actually doing (which I don't buy for a fucking minute), if you have a department of ignorant thuggish fucksticks and somebody points it out (and fucking sues your ass for it) YOU, not they, are in the wrong numbnuts.


Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
But hey, if the first cop knew the law, he would have concluded that nothing was going on and it would have ended there.




BINGO!!!!!

The cops didn't set out to fuck over some gun owners when they got up in the morning, but they sure as fucking Hell took advantage of an opportunity, or they are so criminally ignorant of the Code of Virginia that they SHOULD NOT BE ENTRUSTED TO ENFORCE IT AT ALL!!

I had the cops called on me when I was walking into town (my truck brokedown on the mountain) to fetch my mechanic. They drove up to me asked what was going on and that they had a report of a man carrying a gun, when I told them I was just walking to fetch a mechanic the copper said, "Ok, have a nice day." and drove off. No fucking drama, no threats, no bullshit posturing. He (appropriately) responded to a "man with a gun" call, scoped me out, realized I wasn't a threat to anybody and I wasn't breaking any laws, and went about his business.

Luckily my town is blessed with a very professional, well-trained police force (their response time is amazing too, something on the order of 45 seconds for emergency calls). NOVA police on the other hand (actually LEOs from most of the large departments) are generally not "peace" officers. As a poster above stated, cops are recruited heavily from large Northeastern departments with the lure of higher (or equivalent) pay in areas that are historically known for low crime and low costs of living. Sadly, a lot of these guys don't understand the difference in culture (like we don't find it acceptable down here for a cop to detain a guy he finds "suspicious" and start fishing for a reason to charge him with something), have little respect for our culture, and many know less about the law than my non-LEO ass. It's really bad ju-ju. You add that to influx of leftist carpetbaggers coming from Yankeeville and their bullshit politics and things are starting to look real ugly for people who are real Virginians.

Addendum: Copied from my 2 posts in the other thread on this subject. I believe I made some valid points.

Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:45:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.


The police officers do not know the laws they enforce, and that ignorance of such law leads to them requesting people to break the law, and unnecessarily cause a scene, and that's no big deal?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:45:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
These guys were just trying to start shit. I hope they spend a bunch of money on lawyers if they sue and lose big time.


They were FOLLOWING the law, In Virginia we cannot CCW in restaraunts that server alcohol. So they followed law and open carried. They were harassed and called assclowns by the police officers for doing what they were required to do by law.

Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:46:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.


And what attention were they looking for?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:47:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 6:50:39 AM EST by Cavalry99]
Ok, let's look at this rationally. Before CCW, did they have the right to open carry? For the sake of this argument, I will assume yes. How many of them openly carried before hand? Probably not very many, if ever. I would doubt that open carry was ever discussed in the VA legislature during the CCW debate. I would imagine that when CCW was passed that the legislature had in mind that it probably would'nt be a good idea to allow people who were conusming alcohol to have a gun on them, which I tend to agree with, just like at any gun range usually alcohol is prohibited. They never addressed the open carry with alcohol because it wasn't an issue at the time and was never discussed, such is the nature of our democratic process and the way our laws are made. So these guys looked at the law, and said well that's fine, we won't carry concealed we will just open carry in the bar and still be "within our rights", or in other words totally dismissing the legislative intent. Is it their fault the law is poorly written? No. Did they find a loophole and decide to exploit it like a bunch of little kids in sixth grade who use the excuse "well you did'nt say we could'nt do it"? Yes.

Yeah, I am gonna get flamed. So fucking what.........
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:48:43 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
These guys were just trying to start shit. I hope they spend a bunch of money on lawyers if they sue and lose big time.


Uh... what? These officers should have recognized that there was nothing illegal about this... They created the bad situation... not the individuals who were exercising their rights in the state of VA. Even the Fking PD dispatcher knew that this was legal... and was hesitant to even send officers to the scene.

The officers started shit when they did anything more than arrive at the scene... check to see that no crime was being committed and then FKING LEAVE!

While the officer had every right to notify the restaurant owner of his/her legal right to ask the carriers to leave as well, that should have been it. I wonder what the next step after harrassment of citizens for excersizing their rights might be???

IF you areA a LAW enforcement officer yet are not aware of the laws or your state you are DUMBER THAN AN ASS
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:51:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
These guys were just trying to start shit. I hope they spend a bunch of money on lawyers if they sue and lose big time.


Those pesky black people were just trying to start something when they refused to cooperate with segregation. Those scumbags in Boston who stole the King's tea and threw it in the harbor were just trying to start shit. I guess we should all just surrender our rights so that we're not accused of "just trying to start shit." Unless the owner or his proxy ask the folks to leave, they're doing nothing wrong. Only weirdos are scared of guns--unfortunately, there are a lot of weirdos in this society.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:52:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By KimberWarrior:
While the officer had every right to notify the restaurant owner of his/her legal right to ask the carriers to leave as well, that should have been it.


That I can totally agree with.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:52:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.



The usual apologist.

Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:53:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
BFD

If you go looking for attention, you just might find it.


So, I guess it's not a requirement in Alabama that YOU (that's right I'm calling YOU out personally) that YOU know what the laws are before you are given the responsibility to enforce them?

Following the letter of the law isn't contingent on what some bumbling ignorant Fife like YOU thinks. I used to have a lot of respect for you, and understood your take on things as you are an LEO even though I didn't normally agree with you, but you just lost all your credibility.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:53:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
Ok, let's look at this rationally. Before CCW, did they have the right to open carry? For the sake of this argument, I will assume yes. How many of them openly carried before hand? Probably not very many, if ever. I would doubt that open carry was ever discussed in the VA legislature during the CCW debate. I would imagine that when CCW was passed that the legislature had in mind that it probably would'nt be a good idea to allow people who were conusming alcohol to have a gun on them, which I tend to agree with, just like at any gun range usually alcohol is prohibited. They never addressed the open carry with alcohol because it wasn't an issue at the time and was never discussed, such is the nature of our democratic process and the way our laws are made. So these guys looked at the law, and said well that's fine, we won't carry concealed we will just open carry in the bar and still be "within our rights", or in other words totally dismissing the legislative intent. Is it their fault the law is poorly written? No. Did they find a loophole and decide to exploit it like a bunch of little kids in sixth grade who use the excuse "well you did'nt say we could'nt do it"? Yes.

Yeah, I am gonna get flamed. So fucking what.........




What in the fuck are you talking about? Seriously. What?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:55:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 6:56:37 AM EST by Primos]
In Virginia, aren't you required to open carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol?

as in, you cannot carry concealed?

if so, then these guys were complying with the law.

They weren't "lawsuit shopping". What a bunch of horseshit.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:56:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2007 6:58:38 AM EST by SARS]

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
Ok, let's look at this rationally. Before CCW, did they have the right to open carry? For the sake of this argument, I will assume yes. How many of them openly carried before hand? Probably not very many, if ever. I would doubt that open carry was ever discussed in the VA legislature during the CCW debate. I would imagine that when CCW was passed that the legislature had in mind that it probably would'nt be a good idea to allow people who were conusming alcohol to have a gun on them, which I tend to agree with, just like at any gun range usually alcohol is prohibited. They never addressed the open carry with alcohol because it wasn't an issue at the time and was never discussed, such is the nature of our democratic process and the way our laws are made. So these guys looked at the law, and said well that's fine, we won't carry concealed we will just open carry in the bar and still be "within our rights", or in other words totally dismissing the legislative intent. Is it their fault the law is poorly written? No. Did they find a loophole and decide to exploit it like a bunch of little kids in sixth grade who use the excuse "well you did'nt say we could'nt do it"? Yes.

Yeah, I am gonna get flamed. So fucking what.........


They weren't drinking, genius, and it wasn't a bar. It was a "family" restaurant that happened to also serve some alcohol.

[oops hit the submit button prematurely] Things that aren't banned are legal, as it should be. It is up to the restaurant whether or not customers can open carry in their building.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:59:13 AM EST
We have had open carry in Va forever....just can't drink and carry ...These guys were in the right....coppers were WRONG again. (notice i did not call them asshats)

fred
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 6:59:54 AM EST
This is a sad thread.

I don't even really know Cavalry99 yet, but I've already lost any respect I might have had for him.

Sadder still is the fact that Bama-Shooter has torpedoed the respect that I used to have for him.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:00:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
I would imagine that when CCW was passed that the legislature had in mind that it probably would'nt be a good idea to allow people who were conusming alcohol to have a gun on them. They never addressed the open carry with alcohol because it wasn't an issue at the time and was never discussed

Yeah, I am gonna get flamed. So fucking what.........


You don't know a goddamn thing about VA State law. It doesn't matter if you are consuming alcohol or not. If I go to a Ruby Tuesday's I have to open carry just because they have beer on tap. I might be drinking icea tea, but it doesn't matter.

And yes, they did consider open carry. There's a whole bunch of regulations about open carry, so I highly doubt they just missed something.

DIAF, tia.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:00:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
Ok, let's look at this rationally. Before CCW, did they have the right to open carry? For the sake of this argument, I will assume yes. How many of them openly carried before hand? Probably not very many, if ever.


So exercising a right is a function of how often it was previously exercised?

Wow, are you Michael Bellesiles?
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:02:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Shane333:
This is a sad thread.

I don't even really know Cavalry99 yet, but I've already lost any respect I might have had for him.

Sadder still is the fact that Bama-Shooter has torpedoed the respect that I used to have for him.


+1

I thought he was on the more rational police defenders.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 7:04:41 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
Ok, let's look at this rationally. Before CCW, did they have the right to open carry? For the sake of this argument, I will assume yes. How many of them openly carried before hand? Probably not very many, if ever. I would doubt that open carry was ever discussed in the VA legislature during the CCW debate. I would imagine that when CCW was passed that the legislature had in mind that it probably would'nt be a good idea to allow people who were conusming alcohol to have a gun on them, which I tend to agree with, just like at any gun range usually alcohol is prohibited. They never addressed the open carry with alcohol because it wasn't an issue at the time and was never discussed, such is the nature of our democratic process and the way our laws are made. So these guys looked at the law, and said well that's fine, we won't carry concealed we will just open carry in the bar and still be "within our rights", or in other words totally dismissing the legislative intent. Is it their fault the law is poorly written? No. Did they find a loophole and decide to exploit it like a bunch of little kids in sixth grade who use the excuse "well you did'nt say we could'nt do it"? Yes.

Yeah, I am gonna get flamed. So fucking what.........


YOU ARE JUST WRONG!

First of all your post is full of assumptions. Let me give you an example... I in fact did open carry before I go my concealed license. The thought process behind concealed carry in establishments that serve alcohol is so that someone cannot conceal drinking and carrying... and not a loophole for open carry. But if we are discussing that, So now law abiding citizens, entrusted with a license to carry a concealed firearm... shouldnt be trusted to know enough not to (illegally) drink alcohol while carrying that firearm. You sir, are ... DUHN DIH DUH.
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