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Posted: 6/7/2009 9:23:24 AM EST
I am reading BURY US UPSIDE DOWN about the F-100 "Misty FACs" in Vietnam right now.

Shit hot read.

In the first chapter it mentions a film shown to the students learning to fly the F-100 Super Sabre on their first day of academics.

The film was called "The Sabre Dance" and referred to the ease with which the F-100 would depart controlled flight at low speed owing to the highly swept wing design. The '100 was an unforgiving mistress if mistakes were made at low speed.

I did a search and found the actual "Sabre Dance" film which is mentioned in the book.

The date of this incident was January 10th, 1956. The aircraft involved was F-100 C 54-1907.

Lt. Barty Brooks, a low time F-100 pilot assigned to the 1708th Ferrying Wing at Kelly AFB, had been tasked with taking this particular aircraft from Palmdale CA to a base in the east.

The nose gear would rotate 360 degrees on the F-100 if the scissors pin was removed, and it was common to remove that pin when the aircraft was being towed. While doing his pre-flight checks, Brooks failed to catch that the pin had not been replaced in the nose gear before he took off.

When he attemped to retract the landing gear after takeoff, the nose gear strut jammed, because the gear was turned 90 degrees (as verified by his wingman).

Brooks attempted an emergency landing at nearby Edwards AFB, where the runway was foamed and test cameras which line the runways there were activated. (Some of the information shown at the link is not correct, this was NOT a "test flight accident").

During his approach Brooks let the speed drop too low and stalled the aircraft. Realizing his mistake, he went full AB to try and get back into the envelope, but it was too late.

The deadly "Sabre Dance" had begun, and he was not able to recover.

WARNING: FATAL ACCIDENT SHOWN AT LINK BELOW.

The Sabre Dance
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 9:31:18 AM EST
http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/popejoshpope/1519/

On the same page, this is shown, too. Pretty amazing. A Grumman S2 Tracker takes off from the
USS Ticonderoga right into a breaking wave....and flies off.


CJ
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 9:39:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By omega62:
I am reading BURY US UPSIDE DOWN about the F-100 "Misty FACs" in Vietnam right now.

Shit hot read.

In the first chapter it mentions a film shown to the students learning to fly the F-100 Super Sabre on their first day of academics.

The film was called "The Sabre Dance" and referred to the ease with which the F-100 would depart controlled flight at low speed owing to the highly swept wing design. The '100 was an unforgiving mistress if mistakes were made at low speed.

I did a search and found the actual "Sabre Dance" film which is mentioned in the book.

The date of this incident was January 10th, 1956. The aircraft involved was F-100 C 54-1907.

Lt. Barty Brooks, a low time F-100 pilot assigned to the 1708th Ferrying Wing at Kelly AFB, had been tasked with taking this particular aircraft from Palmdale CA to a base in the east.

The nose gear would rotate 360 degrees on the F-100 if the scissors pin was removed, and it was common to remove that pin when the aircraft was being towed. While doing his pre-flight checks, Brooks failed to catch that the pin had not been replaced in the nose gear before he took off.

When he attemped to retract the landing gear after takeoff, the nose gear strut jammed, because the gear was turned 90 degrees (as verified by his wingman).

Brooks attempted an emergency landing at nearby Edwards AFB, where the runway was foamed and test cameras which line the runways there were activated. (Some of the information shown at the link is not correct, this was NOT a "test flight accident").

During his approach Brooks let the speed drop too low and stalled the aircraft. Realizing his mistake, he went full AB to try and get back into the envelope, but it was too late.

The deadly "Sabre Dance" had begun, and he was not able to recover.

WARNING: FATAL ACCIDENT SHOWN AT LINK BELOW.

The Sabre Dance


They solved the sabre dance by having the pilots use rudder for lateral control rather then the ailerons at high AOA and low airspeed. Actually it was Col. John Boyd who figured it out.
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 9:39:48 AM EST
Wow the pilot should have just belly landed it and been done with it...
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 9:44:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/popejoshpope/1519/

On the same page, this is shown, too. Pretty amazing. A Grumman S2 Tracker takes off from the
USS Ticonderoga right into a breaking wave....and flies off.


CJ


HOO-LEE SMOKES!

Seemed like forever before the aircraft became visible climbing again!

Link Posted: 6/7/2009 9:45:21 AM EST
I have seen that clip at the end of some movie. The McConnell story maybe?
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 10:07:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gopher:
I have seen that clip at the end of some movie. The McConnell story maybe?

It's been used in a few shows.
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 10:11:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/popejoshpope/1519/

On the same page, this is shown, too. Pretty amazing. A Grumman S2 Tracker takes off from the
USS Ticonderoga right into a breaking wave....and flies off.


CJ


I once saw a clip of an aircraft (don't know what type) taking off from a carrier go into a stall as soon as it cleared the deck. Both crewmembers punched out...only to have the plane recover itself and fly off straight and level.
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 10:19:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/7/2009 10:19:26 AM EST by chapperjoe]
Originally Posted By VACaver:
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/popejoshpope/1519/

On the same page, this is shown, too. Pretty amazing. A Grumman S2 Tracker takes off from the
USS Ticonderoga right into a breaking wave....and flies off.


CJ


I once saw a clip of an aircraft (don't know what type) taking off from a carrier go into a stall as soon as it cleared the deck. Both crewmembers punched out...only to have the plane recover itself and fly off straight and level.






I like the ones we can laugh at.
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 10:22:12 AM EST
The one that flew off without the crew was a Tomcat, I think. And the general belief was that the additional weight of the crew, canopy, and ejection seats would have been enough to put the plane in the drink. Arguably the crew made the right decision.


CJ
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 11:38:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The one that flew off without the crew was a Tomcat, I think. And the general belief was that the additional weight of the crew, canopy, and ejection seats would have been enough to put the plane in the drink. Arguably the crew made the right decision.


CJ


No doubt. The change in the C/G once the crew left changed things drastically. It was still pretty funny to watch.
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 12:48:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gopher:
I have seen that clip at the end of some movie. The McConnell story maybe?


You might be thinking of the old 1970s TV show "The Six Million Dollar Man."

They used to show a clip of a NASA Lifting Body (experimental high altitude/suborbital aircraft) crash during the introduction, which appeared a little similar to this.
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 1:47:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 12:18:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By omega62:
I am reading BURY US UPSIDE DOWN about the F-100 "Misty FACs" in Vietnam right now.


In the first chapter it mentions a film shown to the students learning to fly the F-100 Super Sabre on their first day of academics.

The film was called "The Sabre Dance" and referred to the ease with which the F-100 would depart controlled flight at low speed owing to the highly swept wing design. The '100 was an unforgiving mistress if mistakes were made at low speed.

WARNING: FATAL ACCIDENT SHOWN AT LINK BELOW.

The Sabre Dance



When I went through USAF flight school years ago, one of the first courses during academics was called "Road to Wings".

Day one showed a film of nothing but fatal military aircraft accidents, designed to impress upon students the real hazards of military flying. The course also delved into numerous accidents and their analysis.

The F-100 clip was included, as was an F-4 breaking apart from pilot-induced oscillation. The film/course had a definite effect. Two rich-kid students voluntarily moved to non-flying jobs, and I still remember much of that film many years later.

Link Posted: 6/8/2009 2:56:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bandit117:
Originally Posted By omega62:
I am reading BURY US UPSIDE DOWN about the F-100 "Misty FACs" in Vietnam right now.

Shit hot read.

In the first chapter it mentions a film shown to the students learning to fly the F-100 Super Sabre on their first day of academics.

The film was called "The Sabre Dance" and referred to the ease with which the F-100 would depart controlled flight at low speed owing to the highly swept wing design. The '100 was an unforgiving mistress if mistakes were made at low speed.

I did a search and found the actual "Sabre Dance" film which is mentioned in the book.

The date of this incident was January 10th, 1956. The aircraft involved was F-100 C 54-1907.

Lt. Barty Brooks, a low time F-100 pilot assigned to the 1708th Ferrying Wing at Kelly AFB, had been tasked with taking this particular aircraft from Palmdale CA to a base in the east.

The nose gear would rotate 360 degrees on the F-100 if the scissors pin was removed, and it was common to remove that pin when the aircraft was being towed. While doing his pre-flight checks, Brooks failed to catch that the pin had not been replaced in the nose gear before he took off.

When he attemped to retract the landing gear after takeoff, the nose gear strut jammed, because the gear was turned 90 degrees (as verified by his wingman).

Brooks attempted an emergency landing at nearby Edwards AFB, where the runway was foamed and test cameras which line the runways there were activated. (Some of the information shown at the link is not correct, this was NOT a "test flight accident").

During his approach Brooks let the speed drop too low and stalled the aircraft. Realizing his mistake, he went full AB to try and get back into the envelope, but it was too late.

The deadly "Sabre Dance" had begun, and he was not able to recover.

WARNING: FATAL ACCIDENT SHOWN AT LINK BELOW.

The Sabre Dance


They solved the sabre dance by having the pilots use rudder for lateral control rather then the ailerons at high AOA and low airspeed. Actually it was Col. John Boyd who figured it out.



Lateral control at high angles of attack required rudder in the F-4 (without slats). The airflow over the wing was separating and blanking out the ailerons. Rudder worked fine. Forced you to keep the stick centered. Lateral input from the stick would cause roll in the opposite direction.

The story associated with that Sabre dance that I heard was that the pilot didn’t die in the crash, but was loaded into an ambulance with his mask on. He was dead at the hospital due to suffocation in his mask because he threw up.
Link Posted: 6/9/2009 5:30:37 AM EST
My Dad was a Misty FAC. He has fond memories of the Hun. I do recall it was his least favorite aircraft to land as compared to others. Once you finish Bury Us Upside Down read Misty––it is the first book. A collection of stories from several of the pilots on flying the Hun in North Vietnam. They were an incredible group of fighter pilots.
Link Posted: 6/9/2009 5:28:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By seeker28:
My Dad was a Misty FAC. He has fond memories of the Hun. I do recall it was his least favorite aircraft to land as compared to others. Once you finish Bury Us Upside Down read Misty––it is the first book. A collection of stories from several of the pilots on flying the Hun in North Vietnam. They were an incredible group of fighter pilots.


Roger Wilco.

I guess I should add that because of my @&%#$#@! eyesight, I was never able to become a pilot in the Air Force.

I had to settle for a job in wing intelligence, as an intel puke.

However, I do like to use some fighter pilot slang as you see .

Some F-4 guys made me an "honorary fighter pilot" once so I am "slightly" entitled to do this.

Oh, and give your Dad a salute for me please.

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 10:22:55 AM EST
For thsoe of you who don't know,test pilot George Welch was killed in a very early model F-100(short tail). He was one of the 2 P-40 pilots who got airborne during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 7:17:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 8:32:36 PM EST
Ive seen that video for years and never known where it came from....very interesting...

Also an interesting video:
Dragonfly stalling on carrier approach
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