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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 5/25/2002 2:52:08 PM EST
Again, just like the drop-in sear question, this person "inherited" a full-auto Mac-10. He would like to see someone get it who collects these guns however he doesn't know what to do legally. I think he has it parted up with some parts at relatives in different counties so it could not be called "a gun," just parts. Can he register this Mac? If, not, can he sell the parts? Thanks and I will pass on... Rmpl
Link Posted: 5/25/2002 2:54:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/25/2002 2:56:38 PM EST by AR15forfun]
Sounds like he needs a lawyer. [:K]
Link Posted: 5/25/2002 3:22:59 PM EST
Posssession of an un-registered machine,,whoever has the serial #'d part in their hands is in deeeeeeeepp do-do. The rest is parts. Cut the magwell off the frame (just cut the whole center section with well attached)and send it to me, before you to lose the front and rear sections of the frame. I need a MAC-10/45 magwell for a Uzi 45 conversion.
Link Posted: 5/25/2002 3:43:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/25/2002 3:45:37 PM EST by cc48510]
As long as he isn't currently in possession of the Receiver, he should be able to get it transferred into his name. I have heard that this can be done tax free with the right forms since it is inheritance. DISCLAIMER: I have not actually done this. So, I'm not sure exactly what is involved.
Link Posted: 5/25/2002 5:47:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/25/2002 5:47:55 PM EST by macloud]
If that gun is not on the NFA registry, your friend is SOL and violating federal law. If the orginal owner had it registered on a form 4, then he may be OK. I really don't know who can have possesion of the MG if the owner dies. He needs to find the form 4 that the gun was registered on, if he cannot, it must be destroyed at once.
Link Posted: 5/25/2002 11:06:09 PM EST
[:K] [chainsaw]
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 7:04:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/26/2002 7:09:11 AM EST by SBR7_11]
Originally Posted By cc48510: As long as he isn't currently in possession of the Receiver, he should be able to get it transferred into his name. I have heard that this can be done tax free with the right forms since it is inheritance. DISCLAIMER: I have not actually done this. So, I'm not sure exactly what is involved.
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Seems the key word is "inherited",, BUT by what means? Was it a Form-4 gun passed along as part of an ESTATE distribution to lawful heirs, or was it a "garage job" given to somebody?? If it is a lawful Form-4 gun, you need to find the Form-4 and other relative info to the deceased's estate to do a Form-5 transfer to a lawful heir through the estates executor/ATF. The Form-5 will be a "tax-exempt" to the heir (family member able to lawfully own NFA). As of current, only the estates' executor can possess the gun, until it can be lawfully transfered. The best thing to do is call around and find a C2 or C3 in your area and explain the situation and get further advice before a Form-4 gun gets lost and taken out of the system. If it is a "garage job",, you are S---O---L. I still want the magwell when you cut up the contraband.
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 9:10:47 AM EST
Ok, it seems the consensus is he is "SOL!" I agree as well but as a Constitutionalist, it saddens me we have come to this, especially California and the north-east....uuughhh. I will pass the info on and I guess he is going to break out the bandsaw.... Rmpl
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 9:14:13 AM EST
Is your friend named "Dave Lasso" by chance? [:K]
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 9:15:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By SBR7_11: The rest is parts. Cut the magwell off the frame (just cut the whole center section with well attached)and send it to me, before you to lose the front and rear sections of the frame. I need a MAC-10/45 magwell for a Uzi 45 conversion.
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I have never seen this gun and I have only seen a MAC at a gun show. I don't know what you mean by "mag well?" I assume you mean the whole part of the frame that holds the magazine. I will pass on your request. He may just take out the parts and throw the receiver into the ocean the next time he goes to work on the trawler. Rmpl
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 11:11:02 AM EST
The magwell is the part in the center of the frame that the magazine is inserted and has the mag latch, grip panels and trigger guard attached. He can cut the frame in 1/2 just behind the trigger pivot pin and again behind the magwell. Destroy the serial #'d forward section of the frame. The rest can be sold as plain old replacement parts (non-controlled parts).
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 4:37:52 PM EST
One day soon enough ALL guns will be outlawed. I agree he needs to destroy the gun but throwing the sear in the ocean? What if it washes up in Cuba? Toss it in the fiery furnace. Melt that sucker down and when we gun owners have to eventually fight the government cry about how you could use your full auto right then. Again melt it down. Don't dump in the ocean. Destroy it completely. CRC
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 4:52:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By CRC: One day soon enough ALL guns will be outlawed. I agree he needs to destroy the gun but throwing the sear in the ocean? What if it washes up in Cuba? Toss it in the fiery furnace.
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It would probably be legal in Cuba...hehehe I sent an email. He was very "Oh $hit" about it. I think the receiver & sear is in little parts by now with the serial number ground into metal dust. I told him to save the MAC parts for sale on ebay or something. As for the MAG WELL someone spoke of, I passed it on but I don't know what he is going to do. As for 2nd Amendment teeth, we don't need an auto weapon for that. A post-ban AR or AK is very effective. Now 5 round mags would make it a bummer.... or maybe rubber bullet ammo? Rmpl
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 5:02:07 PM EST
Rmpl, Hey! I thought Castro issued every comrade in Cuba a vintage automatic weapon to go along with the govt issued dairy cow and because of the embargo they need new parts! I guess I was wrong! Yeah I would agree a AR-15 .223 would be more effective than a 9mm MAC 11 except on commando raids. It's not like he had a 20MM Vulcan or anything............ CRC
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 5:55:17 PM EST
Has this weapon been "inherited" from a person who legally owned it? If not, then how can you be sure that it's not stolen or has been used in a crime? If your not sure what to do, instead of destroying the thing I'd turn the weapon (or at least the reciever) into a local PD that has a "no questions asked" gun turn-in program. They can check it's history and prevent it from falling into the wrong hands. Maybe even solve a crime. Just a suggestion.
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 6:13:11 PM EST
I totally dropped the ball on this this subject. Does this gun actually have a selector on the left side of the gun, or is it one of the old pre-81/82 "open bolt" semi MAC's that the disconnector has worn or been broken that has caused it "run-on"? If it is indeed an old "open bolt" semi, just order a new trigger and disconnector and replace them. If it does have a selector on the left, call NFA from a pay phone across town and see if the MAC is in the system. Then back track the to find the Form-4 and keep the thing transferable.
Link Posted: 5/26/2002 7:08:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By SBR7_11: I totally dropped the ball on this this subject. Does this gun actually have a selector on the left side of the gun, or is it one of the old pre-81/82 "open bolt" semi MAC's that the disconnector has worn or been broken that has caused it "run-on"? If it is indeed an old "open bolt" semi, just order a new trigger and disconnector and replace them. If it does have a selector on the left, call NFA from a pay phone across town and see if the MAC is in the system. Then back track the to find the Form-4 and keep the thing transferable.
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I think I know how he got it and I don't think it was registered as it was used to keep pirates at bay in the Caribbean many moons ago when that stretch of water was dangerous. It also wasn't a criminal gun as the original buyer I believe is known to this person. Rmpl
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 4:31:30 AM EST
Two possibilities: 1. Your friend finds the originial owner's NFA paperwork (either Form1 or Form4) and then can get a tax-free transfer because he is to inherit the weapon. Call the ATF for directions on how to do a tax-free transfer. 2. Your friend does not find the NFA paperwork. He has three choices if this occurs: A. Destroy the weapon and forget the whole thing. B. Call the ATF and ask if they could check the registery for it, because he cant find the paperwork. If its not registered, the ATF will sieze the firearm and destroy it, but if it is registered, he gets a tax-free transfer. C. Keep the weapon and never mention it to a soul unless he wants to become friendly with Bubba, prisoner number A13512345. Kharn
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 6:40:37 AM EST
It's real simple. If the Mac is not a registered mg, then your friend is committing a felony. He needs to destroy the FA components.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 2:13:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/27/2002 2:14:57 PM EST by SBR7_11]
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: It's real simple. If the Mac is not a registered mg, then your friend is committing a felony. He needs to destroy the FA components.
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The only thing to destroy on a MAC is the frame if it is indeed a true MG w/ selector on the left front, the rest can be used to repair the old open bolt semi or a registered MG, but I could still use the "grip-magwell assembly" if the fella would care to cut the center out of the frame.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 6:33:44 PM EST
Rmplstlskn, if it is a legal Form 1/4 MG, then get the forms and get it in your name. The price of MGs is going up everyday. MACs cost between $1000 and $1500 for a legal transferrable plus the $200 tax. One destroyed transferrable = one less transferrable out there. If you are in the Lauderdale area, email me and I can explain what the Mag Well is, etc... I am not familiar with the fire controls on a MAC. So, if anybody has diagrams please email me a copy. If you can't find the Form 1/4, you could contact the ATF (Pay Phone of course) and see if they can find it in their DB. But, considering the lack of maintanance of the DB, they might not find it even if it were legal. If they can't find it, you are SOL and would have to turn the Receiver over to the ATF. Your other options, albeit illegal are to either -- a) Keep the gun and risk going to prison. b) Find a water tight box and an anchor. Place the receiver in the water tight box and securly attach the anchor to the box. Take it 3+ miles out to sea on the Atlantic Side or 10+ miles on the Gulf Side and drop the box and anchor. Log the position with a GPS on a map and head home. If the laws ever change (Amnesty ???), you could go back and get your Receiver. You could also go back any time you wish, bring it up and shoot it. Of course, you'd want to make sure the water isn't more than say 90 feet deep so that you could dive down and get it. This option assumes of course you have access to a boat and SCUBA Equipment and know how to use them properly.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 7:04:31 PM EST
Rmplstlskn - This applies to both this (MAC) and the DIAS: Like the others have said, there's a 99.99% chance you're friend is in possession of an illegally converted weapon which is not on the NFRTR (National Firearms Registry and Transfer Record). Most owners of legal, registered & transferable machineguns keep their form 1 and/or 4's with all their important documents...like wills, deeds, etc. On the .01% chance that it is legal and registered, your friend will either have to find the form 1 or 4 and have the executor of the decedent's estate execute a tax-free transfer to your friend, OR the executor of the estate can write to BATF to find out what, if any, NFA weapons were registered to the decedent. Unless your friend is also the executor of the estate, BATF will not deal with him. Registration of a firearm under the NFA is a tax document and therefore (just like your tax forms) is not open to public disclosure by the federal government.
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