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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/15/2005 6:42:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 6:43:49 PM EDT by fastblueR6]
There is a gun for sale in PA and Im in OH. I would like to personally inspect the gun and complete the sale in person. The seller told me it is illegal to do this. Is this true?

Also my father lives in PA. Would it be ok if I had him inspect the gun and pay for it? Then I would pick it up from him.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:44:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 6:45:14 PM EDT by w4klr]
Work out a 5 day return period in case you aren't satisfied, simple with no red tape.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:48:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 6:49:58 PM EDT by GAcop]
If you're buying from an individual it's illegal. It has to go through a licensed dealer.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:50:37 PM EDT
Long Gun: Legal
Handgun: Transfer to FFL in your state
Dad Deal: Considered a STRAW PURCHASE becareful not to let the dealer know about it and your fine.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:50:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GAcop:
If you're buying from an individual it's illegal. It has to go through a licensed dealer.



Ok. But what about having my father do a ftf and then him giving the gun to me.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:53:02 PM EDT
To make things more clear. The seller is not a dealer.

Is there somewhere I can look up this info to be sure.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:53:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 6:54:18 PM EDT by SuperSnuper]

Originally Posted By fastblueR6:

Originally Posted By GAcop:
If you're buying from an individual it's illegal. It has to go through a licensed dealer.



Ok. But what about having my father do a ftf and then him giving the gun to me.




Don't let the dealer know about it, Just say it was a gift from your dad if questioned.

EDT: Have it run to make sure it won't burn your fingers FIRST
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:55:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fastblueR6:
To make things more clear. The seller is not a dealer.

Is there somewhere I can look up this info to be sure.





Go with the dad route
MAKE SURE IT"S NOT HOT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:58:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SuperSnuper:

Originally Posted By fastblueR6:
To make things more clear. The seller is not a dealer.

Is there somewhere I can look up this info to be sure.





Go with the dad route
MAKE SURE IT"S NOT HOT



I dont think that someone who knows and cares if it is illegal to do a FTF accross state lines will have a HOT gun. But just to make sure, how can I check? Call the PA police?
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:02:40 PM EDT
You can, Or if you can get the SN# take it to a dealer you do alot of business with and he can have it run. We now have to fax the info over so it takes on average 1 day. Used to be able to call it in but they said to many pawn shops were abusing the system.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:02:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fastblueR6:

Also my father lives in PA. Would it be ok if I had him inspect the gun and pay for it? Then I would pick it up from him.

Thanks.




It would then belong to your dad, but I'm sure he'd let you borrow it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:11:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 7:22:40 PM EDT by Szurgot]
Taken from the BATF website of FAQ:

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's own state? [Back]


A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]


If dad gets it:

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]


A person may only buy a firearm within the person's own state, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]


But then dad lives in a different state than you too.



Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:13:36 PM EDT
Im not trying to do anything illegal. Im just want to know all of my options. Im a little worried about sending money to someone I dont know for something I dont even know that he has. Im a little paranoid about that kinda stuff.

So what if I had my dad do the ftf and then him give me the gun as a gift? Is that legal. Or is there some paper work that needs to be filled out for the transfer?

Thank you all for your help.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:15:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 7:17:27 PM EDT by GAcop]
478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No nonlicensee shall transfer. sell, trade, GIVE, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other

nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if
the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the

State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section:

(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a

bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is

permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence: and

(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful

purposes.



This basically says that you can't even accept a firearm as a gift if it's from a different state unless it goes through a licensee. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:18:52 PM EDT
If it's a handgun, no go.

If it's a rifle, you can do an FTF if it's in a contigious state to yours, AND if your state allows it.

A handgun requires an FFL, a rifle does not.

Either way, the purchase must be made in person.

If I were you, I'd furnish the seller with your credentials, and ask for his in return. Last thing you need is to pick up someone else's dirty laundry.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:21:06 PM EDT
Read my post above. One can't buy a gun, whether it's a handgun or long gun from a non-licensed person in another state unless it goes through a licensed dealer.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:25:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GAcop:
478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No nonlicensee shall transfer. sell, trade, GIVE, transport, or deliver any firearm to any other

nonlicensee, who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if
the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the

State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That the provisions of this section:

(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a

bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is

permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence:
and

(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful

purposes.



This basically says that you can't even accept a firearm as a gift if it's from a different state unless it goes through a licensee. Hope this helps.



The bit in red is what lets him do it.

If he's legally allowed to purchase the firearm in his state, he's legally allowed to buy it in a contigious state.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:26:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
If it's a handgun, no go.

If it's a rifle, you can do an FTF if it's in a contigious state to yours, AND if your state allows it.

A handgun requires an FFL, a rifle does not.

Either way, the purchase must be made in person.

If I were you, I'd furnish the seller with your credentials, and ask for his in return. Last thing you need is to pick up someone else's dirty laundry.




WRONG, look here for transfer questions according to the BATF and not someone's opinion. Federal law over state laws.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:29:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Szurgot:

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
If it's a handgun, no go.

If it's a rifle, you can do an FTF if it's in a contigious state to yours, AND if your state allows it.

A handgun requires an FFL, a rifle does not.

Either way, the purchase must be made in person.

If I were you, I'd furnish the seller with your credentials, and ask for his in return. Last thing you need is to pick up someone else's dirty laundry.




WRONG, look here for transfer questions according to the BATF and not someone's opinion. Federal law over state laws.



Hmm...maybe I'm getting confused here. (vodka has been involved)

I know that when I was in NY, I could go to a gunstore in PA and buy a rifle from an FFL.

Ok, so that's the part I could do...I never thought about FTF sales.

Never mind, I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:29:42 PM EDT
Your best bet here is to find an FFL holder to do a transfer, Better safe than sorry.

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:35:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:

Originally Posted By Szurgot:

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:
If it's a handgun, no go.

If it's a rifle, you can do an FTF if it's in a contigious state to yours, AND if your state allows it.

A handgun requires an FFL, a rifle does not.

Either way, the purchase must be made in person.

If I were you, I'd furnish the seller with your credentials, and ask for his in return. Last thing you need is to pick up someone else's dirty laundry.




WRONG, look here for transfer questions according to the BATF and not someone's opinion. Federal law over state laws.



Hmm...maybe I'm getting confused here. (vodka has been involved)

I know that when I was in NY, I could go to a gunstore in PA and buy a rifle from an FFL.

Ok, so that's the part I could do...I never thought about FTF sales.

Never mind, I'm wrong.



You said it yourself, buying it from a FFL. That is a transfer from a licensed person. These are two non licensed people in DIFFERENT states, at that makes the difference. I dont know about other states but in mine in can sell non licensed to non licensed within the state, but when you cross state lines a FFL in the buyers state is required.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:39:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 7:56:14 PM EDT by fastblueR6]
I think I found the answer to my question.

From the BATF WEBSITE:

B. UNLICENSED PERSONS


(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]


A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]


A person may only buy a firearm within the person's own state, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's own state? [Back]


A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]


So a FTF can be made in either state, as long as it is "overseen" by a FFL Dealer.
EDT: "transfered"
Thanks again to all that helped.

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:42:09 PM EDT
FFL IS THE WAY TO GO.
why try to play games?? its not worth it. plus any ffl will help for a few bucks.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:58:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSOG1:
FFL IS THE WAY TO GO.
why try to play games?? its not worth it. plus any ffl will help for a few bucks.



Yes I agree. FFL is the only legal way to go. I think I chose my words poorly in the above post, and have been edited to clearify.

No games being played here.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:06:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 8:07:42 PM EDT by OBird]
Our gun laws may be better than most countrys', sometimes we're worse off, but man...we have GOT to have the most *confusing* gun laws in the universe.
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