Business ban hypocrite: Kroger stores in Ohio enacting concealed carry ban

Ohioans for Concealed Carry has learned that the Kroger Co. has posted signs banning concealed firearms in at least three Cincinnati-area stores. Kroger is one of the largest grocery store chains in the country, with 2003 sales of $53.8 billion. Kroger operates 3334 grocery and convenience stores  in at least 32 states under the Kroger, Ralphs, King Soopers, City Market, Dillons, Smith’s, fry’s, QFC, Kessel, Cala Foods/Bell Markets, Owen’s, JayC, Hilander, Gerbes, Payless, Food4Less, Foods Co., Fred Meyer, Turkey Hill, Kwik Shop, Loaf ‘N Jug, Quik Stop, and Tom Thumb brand names. Kroger also operates 440 jewelry stores under the Fred Meyer, Littman, Barclay, and Fox's brand names.

It is currently not known whether other Kroger stores in Ohio are posting signs banning concealed firearms. Kroger has not previously banned concealed firearms in their stores in other states where concealed carry is legal.

Please take the time to assist your brothers and sisters in Ohio. Call Kroger’s national customer service number at 800-576-4377 and ask them why they are discriminating against concealed carry licensees in Ohio. Let them know that you will not shop at any Kroger-owned grocery, convenience, or jewelry stores until the discrimination ends.

John Fenton

05-05-04 UPDATE: I spoke with a Kroger representative today. They have received hundreds of phone calls complaining about the signs, including many from outside Ohio. According to the very polite representative, the complaints are being forwarded throughout the company, including to the home office in downtown Cincinnati. She indicated that the issue is being looked at again, and implied that a change might be forthcoming.

Good job so far everybody, but this is not the time to let up. Let's keep hitting them until the signs come down!

Krogers in TN doesn't ban them, why the difference?

Within days of the CCW bill passing here in Ohio, I noticed just about every store here where i live has a "No weapons" sign on the door... I't begining to look like the only place you'll be able to carry is on the sidewalk......

Fuck krogers!! I don't shop there, their prices are too high.

Since you would be carrying concealed, just exactly how would they know you even had a weapon on you?   Are they planning to put up metal detectors in the entrance and also where do they draw the line at defining "weapons"?  Can I bring my ARFCOM CRKT into thier wretched little stores in my back pocket or is that a vialation too.........................................

Quoted: Since you would be carrying concealed, just exactly how would they know you even had a weapon on you?   Are they planning to put up metal detectors in the entrance and also where do they draw the line at defining "weapons"?  Can I bring my ARFCOM CRKT into thier wretched little stores in my back pocket or is that a vialation too.........................................

Bingo. Outta sight, outta mind. They put the signs up as a CYA, insurance issue.
Just keep it concealed, no worries.

We have a running thread for this in the hometown ohio section.  Also it should be reported to Ofcc.  Ofcc has won many reversals on these policies.  Several NE Ohio area car dealers have already when customers who were actually prepared to buy a car that day walked on the deal and took it to someone else and advised the dealer management that the reason was the sign.  Letting these businesses know that they will lose customers as a result of the signs is the best way to deal with it.  I did this at the only CVS in our area to have a sign and the manager was a bit stunned.  I told him " never mind, Walgreens is accross the street and they don't have a sign and want my money ".  If enough licensees do this many will change their policy.

While it is true that it is unlikely that a CCW would be detected, it is still a misdemeanor offense to violate someone's sign.

My guess would be that these stores are in high crime area's.  But I will not go into stores that bar CCW for the simple fact that it provides a safe working environment for the bad guy's/robbers.  It is real easy for the bad guys to just walk into a store like that and just start killing people.  And yes, I know of instances where that has happened.  I know of instances where a CCW has saved lives.  So I refuse to do business with places that prevent CCW.

Hey it Sucks in Cincinnati

Kroger's are full of soccer moms there between Hamilton and Butler Counties

Hey what's the deal - Butler County is virtually ALL Republicans

Go to West Chester sometime you'll see what I am talking about

Wimpy Jocks (Dads) who don't dicipline their kids - Soccer MOMS are worst

Suburbia BULLSHIT

Well, contact KROGER and let them know you are pissed.  We can use the help of out of state ARFCOMmers  calling and saying that they'll boycott until the signs are down in Ohio.  

I carry in the TX Kroger's, no signs

Actually, it is no surprise after the Kroger shooting a few weeks ago somewhere in Ohio.  Typical ill-informed decision.

What you might want to do is call Kroger's headquarters and ask if it is company policy.  I had an assistant manager try to tell me it was company policy at a Walmart that I couldn't carry.  Before someone chimes in and says "how could they see it if it was concealed" crap, in Georgia your license allows open or concealed.  It was a very hot day and I didn't feel like having on another shirt.   Instead of making a scene with the idiot,I left, went home, and called Little Rock headquarters and they said it was NOT company policy, that individual stores can't set such policy, and advised me to contact the store manager.  I did and went down and talked to him.  He asked me who said it and I pointed him out.  The manager, the idiot, and I went into his office and the manager asked him why he did that.  He said he didn't like guns and took it upon himself to keep me out.  He was very belligerent about it, even to his boss, and he got canned on the spot.  The manager did ask me to conceal it in the future so as not to scare the sheep (his words) and I agreed to do that.

As for the signs in Ohio, I don't know if they carry the same legal status as the 30.06 signs in Texas, but if they do and you carry concealed anyway (whether they can see it or not is irrelevant), you are breaking the law.  So, that is bad advice.

The Krogers here in Georgia have no such policy, but I will contact Kroger headquarters in Cincinnati on Monday and see what their company policy is and if individual store managers have the right within the company to implement such policy.

Again, maybe you Ohio guys should call Kroger headquarters also.  Maybe if they get flooded with calls about it, they will do something to remedy the situation.

<sigh>

They have no problem letting me CCW in their Fred Meyers out here,  but all of a sudden they dont trust Mickey Mouse with his CCW....




Now that I said that out loud....


They will get a phone call Monday morning!

I think that these businesses are simply trying to guard against potential lawsuits in case something goes wrong with a concealed carrier.  I doubt it's political.

Hell, even my mother's senior citizen apartment building has now posted signs.  

I've never seen a ant-ccw sign in a Kroger in N. Kentucky.  I'd just ignore it.

 Looks like knee-jerk reaction to me.  I carry concealed in TX Kroger, and have no problem.
 I'll call Monday, and bitch a little at them.

Quoted: We have a running thread for this in the hometown ohio section.  Also it should be reported to Ofcc.  Ofcc has won many reversals on these policies.  Several NE Ohio area car dealers have already when customers who were actually prepared to buy a car that day walked on the deal and took it to someone else and advised the dealer management that the reason was the sign.  Letting these businesses know that they will lose customers as a result of the signs is the best way to deal with it.  I did this at the only CVS in our area to have a sign and the manager was a bit stunned.  I told him " never mind, Walgreens is accross the street and they don't have a sign and want my money ".  If enough licensees do this many will change their policy. While it is true that it is unlikely that a CCW would be detected, it is still a misdemeanor offense to violate someone's sign.

Thanks. OFCC is aware of the situation. I included a link to OFCC's story on the topic. In fact, we coordinated the postings this morning. :)

We know Kroger doesn't post anywhere else -- including Northern Kentucky where I work -- that's why this is so absurd. We need to blast them online and on the phone.  You can leave comments online at www.kroger.com/customercomments.htm. They may only be posting in Cincinnati/Ohio, but they need to feel the wrath of gun owners nationwide.

You know you Buckeyes would have one hell of a nice state if you just walled off the "Three Cs", Cinncinatti, Columbus, and Cleveland, and made them a separate state.

Tj

Quoted: Since you would be carrying concealed, just exactly how would they know you even had a weapon on you?

If you want others to respect your private property, show some respect for others.  Thier property, they make the rules.  If you dont like it(I know I dont...), then do not spend your money there.  Vote with your wallet.

It's a shame that Thriftway just announced that they are going belly-up. They might have picked up a lot of Krogers business.

h.gifh.gifh.gif

Quoted: You know you Buckeyes would have one hell of a nice state if you just walled off the "Three Cs", Cinncinatti, Columbus, and Cleveland, and made them a separate state. Tj

As would we if we walled up Memphis, Nashville, and Knoxville.

As would most any state if its 3 largest cities were removed.

Kroger update:

Ohioans for Concealed Carry has confirmation via a voicemail left by Kroger customer service that this is now the policy for all Cincinnati and Dayton area Kroger stores. This is Kroger's home market, so this is a very dangerous precedent to set.

We need to make Kroger painfully aware of the national ramifications of this currently "local" policy.

Please call Kroger at 800-576-4377.

The customer service rep told me this morning that I was the first call. Let's get 'em!

John Fenton

Hello all.  It was with I that Kroger confirmed, via voicemail, that it was the corporate policy for Cincinnati and Dayton.  This is Kroger's HOME market.  We need people from all over the country to call and write them saying that you'll be shopping at Meijer or WalMart or wherever until they stop discriminating against their Ohio customers.  This could be a test run for the rest of the country.  Get on the phone and hammer them.  

I don’t know if all Wal-marts have this policy but at the Wal-mart I work at, they doesn't allow their employees have a ccw on Wal-mart property while on the clock; this includes in your car in the parking lot.

Well, at least WalMart's customers can be armed.  Help out with Kroger here and Hammer THEM!  

E-mail sent.

Guys, DO NOT ignore these signs in Ohio and carry anyway! It IS a criminal offense! It's a 4th Degree Misdemeanor , meaning a fine and possible jail time! I don't agree with it, either, but better safe than sorry. I'd hate to see any fellow gunners arrested and charged unnecessarily. And give it time. It's already been said that quite a few of the provisions of the law are going to be subject to change. Adding these provisions was the only way to get the law passed in the first place. Now that it's here, it'll be much easier to change than if they tried to put more sensible provisions in in the first place. In a few years, unless we get even more asshole Liberal legislators, we ought to have a pretty decent CCW law.

As for lawsuits against the stores and places that forbid CCW, that won't work, either. Stores and people are immune from prosecution for anything that happens, whether or not they allow or forbid CCW. All we can do is try and hit them in the pocketbook. Yet another odious part of the law that should go away. Make sure and let these stores know they have lost your business if they keep this up. I know I have!

Bub

Hell I wouldn't go to the Krogers  here in Covington without  carrying...

Email sent and Kroger Plus card cut up like my last credit card ('cept I did it instead of the clerk!)

Thanks!  Keep up the good work in the morning.  Don't let them get away with it!

Is there any reason, in all seriousness, that you NRA-lovers feel the need to pack at the grocery store? Is this just in case a war breaks loose in the produce aisle? Or perhaps, you like touting weapons in front of soccer moms who are trying to corrall toddlers while juggling two carts full of groceries?

Forgive me if I just don't get it. And please, spare me the speech about your "Constitutional right to bear arms". I still find it hard to believe the founding fathers thought long and hard about what affect that might have in the year 2004 when there were mega-super-stores and people were no longer forced to protect their homesteads from "strangers".

IMHO, you all need to take some time to reflect on why you need the gun on your person to feel manly, or safe. God gave you hands for a reason. Learn to use them.

Quoted: IMHO, you all need to take some time to reflect on why you need the gun on your person to feel manly, or safe. God gave you hands for a reason. Learn to use them.

How about  disabled folks........ like me ?

How about off duty cops...... they can leave their sidearms at home, if I have to.

Store parking lots are prime locations for mugging s and car jackings, especially in the  evenings.

No one wants to wave their pistol in front of the soccer moms...... that's why it's called Concealed Carry.

CKMorley

Well, TROLL, we carry EVERYWHERE because criminals disregard the law everywhere.  They victimize the innocent everywhere.  They rob, kill, rape and assault everywhere.  

Do you think that criminals are going to see the signs in Kroger and say, "well, I'm not robbing this place, as guns aren't allowed here."  No, they're going to say:  "Fantastic, the management made sure I have easy pickings!"

In Colorado alone, there have been several armed robberies of grocery stores, one with fatalities, in the last several years.

You may be content to act as a sheep and "hope" that law enforcement will arrive just in time to do something other than oversee the coronor as he fits you with a toe tag, but most of us are not content to give up our right of self determination.

We want to carry everywhere, because there is no greater check against government tyranny and corruption than a situation where the powers that be must stand in awe of the citizens.  Someone smarter than I said:  "A man with a weapon is a citizen, a disarmed man is a subject."

If you think that the prevailing attitude and societal structure has changed so much that the 2nd Amendmetn is not needed, then by all means.  Form a group and advocate its repeal.  You will not be successful.  Americans will not so easily surrender their sovreignity.  

Quoted: Is there any reason, in all seriousness, that you NRA-lovers feel the need to pack at the grocery store? Is this just in case a war breaks loose in the produce aisle? Or perhaps, you like touting weapons in front of soccer moms who are trying to corrall toddlers while juggling two carts full of groceries? Forgive me if I just don't get it. And please, spare me the speech about your "Constitutional right to bear arms". I still find it hard to believe the founding fathers thought long and hard about what affect that might have in the year 2004 when there were mega-super-stores and people were no longer forced to protect their homesteads from "strangers". IMHO, you all need to take some time to reflect on why you need the gun on your person to feel manly, or safe. God gave you hands for a reason. Learn to use them.

Oh look, a drive by trolling.

I have, on three occasions, found dead customers and employees inside commercial walk in freezers. (It was easy in the first case, I just followed the blood trail)  They all had two hands each, in two instances tied behind their backs.  Didn't seem to be that big an advantage for them, did it?

If there is ONE place I would insist folks carry it would be a grocery store.   Esp those 24 hr places we have around here.   You would not BELEIVE the things you see in these places after dark.

Well, Hummingbird, I hereby declare you to be a troll and an assclown.  Remember, call Kroger early and often!

Now Now, don't pick on hummingbird she obviously found a link to the site and is trying to have a rational discussion.  She learned in school that rational discussion is the best way of solving  issues.  Clearly her liberal education didn't include any Klausewitz, Neville Chamberlain or Churchill on appeasement.

When one has been prevented by the presence of armed men in protective services keeping her safe all her life from experiencing unpleasantries inflicted by lower income disadvantaged  group members one might not realize that people can be violent even if you don't want them to hurt you.

And she clearly has never been educated in that  allowing the government  to decide what we "need" to do or "want" to do and disallowing either will soon lead to "right" minded people deciding we don't "need" practical vehicles, and force her to ride in small dangerous vehicles or walk.

This is her first post, be nice to her.

Quoted: Is there any reason, in all seriousness, that you NRA-lovers feel the need to pack at the grocery store? Is this just in case a war breaks loose in the produce aisle? Or perhaps, you like touting weapons in front of soccer moms who are trying to corrall toddlers while juggling two carts full of groceries?

It's CONCEALED, not touting.  What a moron.

Forgive me if I just don't get it. And please, spare me the speech about your "Constitutional right to bear arms". I still find it hard to believe the founding fathers thought long and hard about what affect that might have in the year 2004 when there were mega-super-stores and people were no longer forced to protect their homesteads from "strangers".

You don't get it, but no forgiveness forthcoming.  Who cares whether you believe it or not.  Based on your analogy, maybe the First Amendment should be done away with.  I'm sure the founding fathers could not have envisioned the internet and movies as they are.

If you think people are no longer forced to protect their homestead from "strangers", maybe the terms "burglary" and "home invasion" ring a bell.  Probably not.  I know, Bill Clinton hasn't given you your opinion on that, has he.

IMHO, you all need to take some time to reflect on why you need the gun on your person to feel manly, or safe. God gave you hands for a reason. Learn to use them.

Oh God, another fool who watches too much TV.  You know, the "I know martial arts, so I don't need a gun" type, who have seen Bruce Lee take down 10 gunmen before one could get a shot off.

Hummingbird, huh.  Is that because you like to give hummers?

Quoted: Is there any reason, in all seriousness, that you NRA-lovers feel the need to pack at the grocery store?

Sure thing, partner.  Just tell me when and where I'll be assaulted next, and I'll leave the firearm home until then.  Deal?

Hummingbird:

While it is obvious that you intended your post to be inflamatory I will attempt to respond in a rational manner.  I think I'm qualified to make these statements given my 20 years in policing holding every rank and assignment including Chief of Police as well as a Bachelors in criminology.  Now, to the issue at hand as to why to carry a pistol for protection at a supermarket.  The simple answer is that they are dangerous places.  They are open to the public, many 24 hours.  They always have large amounts of cash on hand and they have a clientelle that generally has their hands full.  They are often located in rural locations and contrary to your opnion the police are not always around.  We in Ohio have had a rash of rapes in supermarket parking lots of late.  In addition the same chain mentioned had a worker shot by a criminal in one of their stores recently.  Its not about dick waving or some psycho phallic projection as some might have you believe, its about self protection.  I realize that many many people go through life never thinking they need to defend themselves and that if they did their fists would be enough.  It is a lie.  Thats right, you were lied to.  The best defense a woman or man in our society has against criminal attack is a firearm and the training, and mental preparedness to use it at the appropriate time.  Fact is, I consider places, retail establishments in particular that ban the carry of licensed gun owners to be dangerous.  I will not let my wife shop at them.  It is not a political issue, it is a safety issue.  You see, because those signs are prominantly posted to that someone does not inadvertently break the law, the criminals can see them too and have the full comfort of knowing that everyone inside is unarmed.  Your intentions, while they sound noble and probably make sense to you, come from a sheltered perspective and are not refelctive of the world we live in.  In short, wonderland is not real but the hobgoblins are.  They are armed, and they do mean to do you harm.  They will kill you if they have to and maybe even if they don't have to.  No, my pistol goes with me and always has, and now, thanks to this law, my wife is no longer defensless without me.

Hit Kroger like a Chicago Democrat...early and often.  We can't let this discrimination stand.  

Update: I spoke with a Kroger representative today. They have received hundreds of phone calls complaining about the signs, including many from outside Ohio. According to the very polite representative, the complaints are being forwarded throughout the company, including to the home office in downtown Cincinnati. She indicated that the issue is being looked at again, and implied that a change might be forthcoming.

Good job so far everybody, but this is not the time to let up. Let's keep hitting them until the signs come down!

Quoted: Is there any reason, in all seriousness, that you NRA-lovers feel the need to pack at the grocery store? Is this just in case a war breaks loose in the produce aisle? Or perhaps, you like touting weapons in front of soccer moms who are trying to corrall toddlers while juggling two carts full of groceries?

Actually, I often have my own toddler (17 months) -- and soon another newborn -- with me at the grocery store. If anything, having my son with me increases my need to carry a firearm for protection. It is much harder for me to run or fight back physically if I'm carrying a 30-pound child.

a Glock-packing soccer-playing Dad

Hummingbird: Gee, you're stuck WAY DEEP into the matrix. Since you seem to be so well informed I think you need to do a little bit more research.
Research whether or not it is your local police department's DUTY to protect you.


Guess what? You're gonna find out that, per a Supreme Court decision, IT IS NOT THEIR JOB TO PROTECT YOUR OR YOUR FAMILY.

So, that leaves it up to whom to protect you?

Gee, maybe it'll end up being that NRA member in the grocery store that pulls out his CONCEALED CARRY weapon and keeps some scumbag from dragging you back into the meat cooler for a little of the old in-out in-out real savage like before he parks a bullet in your ignorant head.

Quoted: Guys, DO NOT ignore these signs in Ohio and carry anyway! It IS a criminal offense! It's a 4th Degree Misdemeanor , meaning a fine and possible jail time! I don't agree with it, either, but better safe than sorry. I'd hate to see any fellow gunners arrested and charged unnecessarily. And give it time. It's already been said that quite a few of the provisions of the law are going to be subject to change. Adding these provisions was the only way to get the law passed in the first place. Now that it's here, it'll be much easier to change than if they tried to put more sensible provisions in in the first place. In a few years, unless we get even more asshole Liberal legislators, we ought to have a pretty decent CCW law. As for lawsuits against the stores and places that forbid CCW, that won't work, either. Stores and people are immune from prosecution for anything that happens, whether or not they allow or forbid CCW. All we can do is try and hit them in the pocketbook. Yet another odious part of the law that should go away. Make sure and let these stores know they have lost your business if they keep this up. I know I have! Bub

Perhaps someone with more legal knowledge than myself can speak to this, but I've heard it said that you could still sue, Federally, as that is an Ohio legislative provision.

I doubt you could sue.  The easiest way to win is to convince them to change their position.  That is why we need to keep hammering them.  Think.  Chicago.  Democrat.  Call.  Early.  Call. Often.

Ok where to start? Educated by the liberal left? Yes, I suppose I am? Idealistic? Most likely true as well. Am I so blinded by my love everyone and they'll love you back theory that I cannot see the forest for the trees? Sorry folks, the answer is no.

Let me break it down for you...

1) Guns kept in the home for self-protection are 22 times more likely to kill someone known to the owner than to kill in self-defense.

2) Since 1960, more than a million Americans have died in firearm suicides, homicides, and unintentional shootings. In 1996 alone, more than 34,000 Americans died by gunfire.

3) In 1998, for every one time a woman used a handgun to kill a stranger in self-defense, 302 women were murdered in handgun homicides

I agree that the right to carry concealed firearms makes sense if the person carrying that gun is trained (and admit it, most of them aren't) and are not likely to lose control of that weapon during an altercation (and if you aren't trained, you will). Guns in the hands of the right people do not particularly alarm me. For God's sake, my fiancee is currently in Iraq fighting, I'm quite sure, with guns.

And to the soccer-dad gun-toting lunatic... let me get this straight... you would place your 30lb toddler on the floor, pull out a gun and shoot? This to me sounds like a very deluded idea of safety for all involved.

Finally, do I think the police will protect me? Are ya nuts? Let me tell you this. They didn't help when I was raped. But then again, had I had a gun in my hand, that gun wouldn't have helped do much but get me killed.

There are a few rules I like to live by, and for all you manly men they will seem childish. If it harm none, then shall it be done. And carrying a weapon in public, around all those "crazy people" seems to me like it could be more harmful than helpful. And for the record, just because you feel more safe carrying doesn't mean you are.

Oh, and I see that repecting free speech and free thought is not nearly as important to the people who post here as the right to bear arms. Who's got their priorities screwed up?

Where'd you get your statistics? I'm guessing the HCI website.

Hummingbird,  I'll say this is the nicest possible way.   I'm holding off on the "Troll" label,  because it's just possible you BELIEVE all that.

 I would just like to note that coming on to a gun board and spreading undocumented and extensively refuted propaganda straight out of a Handgun Control handbook is not thinking for yourself, and is very likely to bring down a veritible tornado of condemnation.  

You see, we know the facts, and are quite familiar with the lies, and don't really have the patience for the bull.

If you are in the Austin area you are quite welcome to ride patrol with me sometime,  If you don't want or see the need for a handgun by the general public (ESP women) at  the end of 10 hours,  I'll buy your dinner.

As for the right of free speech,  You certainly have it on this board, after all, you are not banned, like I would be on several liberal boards I can think of if I brought a Pro-gun opinion.  However, "Free speech" does not mean anyone has to agree or even listen to you, and does not protect you from the pile of animosity about to be headed your way.

Hummingbird=assclown that has ZERO intention of letting FACTS get in the way of her pre-conceived notions.

Woman, you are in the WRONG place to be spewing the HCI party lines.

WE are intelligent enough to know and check the FACTS.

YOU are GULLIBLE.

WE, at least, are willing to take responsibility for protecting ourselves and our three month old children, even if it means a gunfight in front of them.

YOU are obviously sheep. YOU, by your lack of actions, deserve whatever happens to you. Sorry if the truth hurts, and that you feel you're too vulnerable and unable to protect yourself. Get off a board where people have the firm belief that they'll at least try to defend their loved ones and themselves.
You've obviously given up on that principle.

The man behind the ban.

Mr. Bob Hodge
Division Manager, The Kroger Co.
150 Tri-County Parkway
Cincinnati OH 45246

Please take the time to write him a letter.  You can also contact the President of the company

Mr. David Dillon
President,  Kroger Corp.
1014 Vine Street
Cincinnati, Ohio 45202-1100

FLOOD THEM!