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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/12/2005 10:57:01 AM EDT
Bye bye.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:59:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 10:59:51 AM EDT by mjohn3006]


Knew that was coming.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:03:35 AM EDT
America is better for that decision. Back to the American Quarter Horse Association, or wherever he was getting that necessary disaster relief experience.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:04:19 AM EDT
Not surprised.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:10:22 AM EDT
So the person who did not screw up resigns while the people that are responsible skate along… typical.

The Mayor and Governor that failed to act before the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that failed to act after the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that killed people get a pass.

Maybe if Brown had learned to cry on cue…

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:13:29 AM EDT
It wasn't Rumsfeld or Rove, but the MSM and the Democrats finally got a kill.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:20:35 AM EDT
Kind of shows some guilt on Bush's team. Unfortunately the Democrats will not stop until Bush is the person resigning or being forced out.

What about the governor of LA?

Mayor Nagit?

Naw, they pay their D union dues.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:25:04 AM EDT
He will be replaced by Walter Simons.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:27:54 AM EDT
Lie, cheat and pass the buck. When accused of something, make counter-accusations and point fingers.

One thing I learned working in the corporate world:

When the spotlight shines on you, divert that spotlight to someone else. Or else you'll take a fall.

You don't always have to know the business to be the boss, but you need to have good people around you and take thier direction when the time comes. I don't think he did anything bad.

We know who screwed up the response effort.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:41:00 AM EDT
Someone had to take one for the team.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:42:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Seneca-Cayuga:
Someone had to take one for the team.



Yep... means nothing else.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:44:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Seneca-Cayuga:
Someone had to take one for the team.



Why not Nagin or Blanco?

Silly Zaphod! Trying to apply logic to Democrats!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:46:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 11:47:19 AM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Seneca-Cayuga:
Someone had to take one for the team.



Why not Nagin or Blanco?


Silly Zaphod! Trying to apply logic to Democrats!



Nagin or Blanco (Democrats) ain't on anybodys team except thier own... the root of the problem. For them politics first the Country's good second… third… 25th.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:48:53 AM EDT
Let me guess...

He'll probably be leaving with some sort of golden parachute, pay out or pension in the 6 figure range $$$$$$.

And after taking a year off to relax, he'll settle into a nice government funded consulting or teaching position at tax payers expense.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:49:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Nagin or Blanco (Democrats) ain't on anybodys team except thier own... the root of the problem. For them politics first the Country's good second… third… 25th.




You actually believe it's ON the list?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:50:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Nagin or Blanco (Democrats) ain't on anybodys team except thier own... the root of the problem. For them politics first the Country's good second… third… 25th.




You actually believe it's ON the list?



My mistake.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:01:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
It wasn't Rumsfeld or Rove, but the MSM and the Democrats finally got a kill.

This is a perfect example of how the distortions and lies by the MSM and the baseless accusations of the sleazy democrats have finally accomplished what they wanted: a corpse in the gurtter.

This is no better than the ROP'ers hanging guys from a bridge.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:01:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rtech:
You don't always have to know the business to be the boss, but you need to have good people around you and take thier direction when the time comes. I don't think he did anything bad.


The mantra in old days of conglomerates & MBA-types, was you really didn't have to know anything about the business, but surround yourself with people who do. The trouble is why should a company hire anyone with zero experience, and depend on a subordinates to set policy?

Mr. Brown was literally way over his head, and that goes for NOLA Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov. Kathy Blanco also.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:09:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
So the person who did not screw up resigns while the people that are responsible skate along… typical.

The Mayor and Governor that failed to act before the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that failed to act after the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that killed people get a pass.

Maybe if Brown had learned to cry on cue…




I concur wholeheartedly.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:17:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By rtech:
You don't always have to know the business to be the boss, but you need to have good people around you and take thier direction when the time comes. I don't think he did anything bad.


The mantra in old days of conglomerates & MBA-types, was you really didn't have to know anything about the business, but surround yourself with people who do. The trouble is why should a company hire anyone with zero experience, and depend on a subordinates to set policy?

Mr. Brown was literally way over his head, and that goes for NOLA Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov. Kathy Blanco also.



Please explain how Brown was in over his head…

At this point it has been definitively been show that FEMAs response to this hurricane was the fastest response in US history. FEMA responded right on the expected schedule. This DESPITE the fact FEMA was continually hampered by monumental incompetence by Louisiana and New Orleans officials

Brown is clear and simple a scapegoat for the Democrats and MSM to hide where the real blame lies, at the State and Local level.

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:22:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 12:25:01 PM EDT by monkeyman]

Originally Posted By PinPointOne:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
So the person who did not screw up resigns while the people that are responsible skate along… typical.

The Mayor and Governor that failed to act before the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that failed to act after the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that killed people get a pass.

Maybe if Brown had learned to cry on cue…




I concur wholeheartedly.



I disagree. Brown was unqualified and padded his resume in order to appear qualified. For that reason alone he had to go. No, I don't blame Brown for what happened .

NO's Mayor and LA's Govenor will get what's coming to them as well. If they had any integrity they would resign.. We all know that most politicians have no shame so they will have to be dumped in the next election.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:23:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By rtech:
You don't always have to know the business to be the boss, but you need to have good people around you and take thier direction when the time comes. I don't think he did anything bad.


The mantra in old days of conglomerates & MBA-types, was you really didn't have to know anything about the business, but surround yourself with people who do. The trouble is why should a company hire anyone with zero experience, and depend on a subordinates to set policy?

Mr. Brown was literally way over his head, and that goes for NOLA Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov. Kathy Blanco also.



Please explain how Brown was in over his head…

At this point it has been definitively been show that FEMAs response to this hurricane was the fastest response in US history. FEMA responded right on the expected schedule. This DESPITE the fact FEMA was continually hampered by monumental incompetence by Louisiana and New Orleans officials

Brown is clear and simple a scapegoat for the Democrats and MSM to hide where the real blame lies, at the State and Local level.


You just haven't drank the MSM KoolAid yet. Get with it and you too can crucify the innocent.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:26:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By monkeyman:

Originally Posted By PinPointOne:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
So the person who did not screw up resigns while the people that are responsible skate along… typical.

The Mayor and Governor that failed to act before the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that failed to act after the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that killed people get a pass.

Maybe if Brown had learned to cry on cue…




I concur wholeheartedly.



I disagree. Brown was unqualified and padded his resume in order to appear qualified. For that reason alone he had to go. One never knows but his incompetance may well have distorted or influenced the Homeland Security Director's and Bush's view of what was really happening on the ground. No, I don't blame Brown for what happened but one never knows what might have been different without the Brown Factor.

NO's Mayor and LA's Govenor will get what's coming to them as well. If they had any integrity they would resign as well. We all know that most politicians have no shame so they will have to be dumped in the next election.



Sorry but the simple facts do not support this contention.

Repeating Brown was incompetent means absolutely NOTHING… that is all you are doing.

What EXACTLY has Brown done wrong?

Brown has handled many hurricanes in the past with no few complaints. Last year Brown handled the worst hurricane season in decades and did a good job.

What changed from last year… the Local and State officials that is all.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:31:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By monkeyman:

Originally Posted By PinPointOne:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
So the person who did not screw up resigns while the people that are responsible skate along… typical.

The Mayor and Governor that failed to act before the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that failed to act after the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that killed people get a pass.

Maybe if Brown had learned to cry on cue…




I concur wholeheartedly.



I disagree. Brown was unqualified and padded his resume in order to appear qualified. For that reason alone he had to go. One never knows but his incompetance may well have distorted or influenced the Homeland Security Director's and Bush's view of what was really happening on the ground. No, I don't blame Brown for what happened but one never knows what might have been different without the Brown Factor.

NO's Mayor and LA's Govenor will get what's coming to them as well. If they had any integrity they would resign as well. We all know that most politicians have no shame so they will have to be dumped in the next election.



Sorry but the simple facts do not support this contention.

Repeating Brown was incompetent means absolutely NOTHING… that is all you are doing.

What EXACTLY has Brown done wrong?

Brown has handled many hurricanes in the past with no few complaints. Last year Brown handled the worst hurricane season in decades and did a good job.

What changed from last year… the Local and State officials that is all.



Yup.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:32:01 PM EDT
The problem was there seems to be some fluff in his Bio. I'm not sure why that was done, but if it's correct then it sure makes it hard to stand up and defend him. You will have your legs cut off from under you. It seems some of the Bio items were puffed up. That wasn't smart.

I still think he didn't become incompetent overnight when he managed 5 previous disasters, but there will be no way to get that across now.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:35:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By monkeyman:

Originally Posted By PinPointOne:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
So the person who did not screw up resigns while the people that are responsible skate along… typical.

The Mayor and Governor that failed to act before the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that failed to act after the fact get a pass.
The Mayor and Governor that killed people get a pass.

Maybe if Brown had learned to cry on cue…




I concur wholeheartedly.



I disagree. Brown was unqualified and padded his resume in order to appear qualified. For that reason alone he had to go. One never knows but his incompetance may well have distorted or influenced the Homeland Security Director's and Bush's view of what was really happening on the ground. No, I don't blame Brown for what happened but one never knows what might have been different without the Brown Factor.

NO's Mayor and LA's Govenor will get what's coming to them as well. If they had any integrity they would resign as well. We all know that most politicians have no shame so they will have to be dumped in the next election.



Sorry but the simple facts do not support this contention.

Repeating Brown was incompetent means absolutely NOTHING… that is all you are doing.

What EXACTLY has Brown done wrong?

Brown has handled many hurricanes in the past with no few complaints. Last year Brown handled the worst hurricane season in decades and did a good job.

What changed from last year… the Local and State officials that is all.



Yes but the puffed up qualifications make a defense nearly untenable. I don't know if he did that or if someone else did to make it look better but that sunk him.

Honestly I'm not opposed to making that a qualification based position over a straight appointment, but that would not change what was at the heart of this issue.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:41:45 PM EDT
The claim about the "puffed up qualification" refers to a job 30 years ago. That would make it irrelevant.

His years as chief of FEMA (5 years), deputy chief for FEMA, and legal council for FEMA is more relevant, I'd think...
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:49:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 12:50:30 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
Yes but the puffed up qualifications make a defense nearly untenable. I don't know if he did that or if someone else did to make it look better but that sunk him.

Honestly I'm not opposed to making that a qualification based position over a straight appointment, but that would not change what was at the heart of this issue.



Well as you imply the only evidence we have he fluffed his resume is what was on the FEMA web site, did he do that, or did the web designer, someone at FEMA… we don’t know. It is a convenient smokescreen behind which irrelevant attacks are launched at Brown and the Federal response.

We do not know who fluffed Brown’s resume but we do know:

Brown and FEMA did NOT keep the Red Cross and Salvation Army out of New Orleans… the Governor did.

Brown did not leave hundreds of NEEDED school and transit buses in low level areas to be fooled and turned in to scrap.

Brown did not cause the Governor of LA to forget for 2 days she had hundreds of NEEDED school and transit buses OUTSIDE of New Orleans she could commandeer for evacuation (which she only had the power to commandeer).

Brown did not cause the Governor of LA to forget to request help form surrounding states National Guard units (which she is required to by law before they can help).

Brown did not cause the Governor of LA to forget to request Federal troops (which she is required to by law before they can help).

Brown is a scapegoat... but the truth is out there and the truly guilty can no longer hide behind Brown.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:57:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 12:59:23 PM EDT by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
The claim about the "puffed up qualification" refers to a job 30 years ago. That would make it irrelevant.

His years as chief of FEMA (5 years), deputy chief for FEMA, and legal council for FEMA is more relevant, I'd think...



I'm not saying they are directly relevent, but we all know that once someone says his "qualifications were overblown" that coming back with "yeah but that was 30 years ago and besides....." will not be effective.

Yes, he's being scapegoated, but there was no longer any way to really win. I agree with you guys on the merits of his performance, but he was sunk the minute that came out.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 1:04:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 1:04:59 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
The claim about the "puffed up qualification" refers to a job 30 years ago. That would make it irrelevant.

His years as chief of FEMA (5 years), deputy chief for FEMA, and legal council for FEMA is more relevant, I'd think...



I'm not saying they are directly relevent, but we all know that once someone says his "qualifications were overblown" that coming back with "yeah but that was 30 years ago and besides....." will not be effective.

Yes, he's being scapegoated, but there was no longer any way to really win. I agree with you guys on the merits of his performance, but he was sunk the minute that came out.



I know….

You are speaking from the view of political perception... which has little to do with what is right or true. The press and Democrats know Brown’s 30 year old resume listings are not relevant but that has not stopped them.

It is disgusting… but it was something that had to be dealt with none the less.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:05:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Seneca-Cayuga:
Someone had to take one for the team.



Why? The "team" controls the executive, the legislative, and gets to pick 2 SCOTUS judges this year. If Brown was really competent, there's no reason for him to resign.

I do think that both the Mayor and the governor share most of the blame for the tragedy, but I'm fairly sure we can find someone more qualified than Brown at cleaning up the mess made by local authorities.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:07:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
Bye bye.



we need a harikari animated icon just for this sort of thing.

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:21:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By geegee:
America is better for that decision. Back to the American Quarter Horse Association, or wherever he was getting that necessary disaster relief experience.



Nah, he was fired from the "horsey job"... guessing gross incompetance, but just conjecture


Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
Kind of shows some guilt on Bush's team. Unfortunately the Democrats will not stop until Bush is the person resigning or being forced out.

What about the governor of LA?

Mayor Nagit?

Naw, they pay their D union dues.



I have yet to see anything (aside from assertions on ARFCOM) that would make me agree w/your assesment to the Gov, but the Mayor? Yup, his ass needs replaced! IF the Gov DID keep relief from going INTO NO... well, that certainly needs to be addressed, I've yet to see anything "official"about that yet (of course, I've not LOOKED either). But I've seen AND heard a LOT (even from Republicans/Conservatves) that blast Brown... so.... (and the Mayor asshat).


Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By rtech:
You don't always have to know the business to be the boss, but you need to have good people around you and take thier direction when the time comes. I don't think he did anything bad.


The mantra in old days of conglomerates & MBA-types, was you really didn't have to know anything about the business, but surround yourself with people who do. The trouble is why should a company hire anyone with zero experience, and depend on a subordinates to set policy?

Mr. Brown was literally way over his head, and that goes for NOLA Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov. Kathy Blanco also.






Originally Posted By Grunteled:
The problem was there seems to be some fluff in his Bio. I'm not sure why that was done, but if it's correct then it sure makes it hard to stand up and defend him. You will have your legs cut off from under you. It seems some of the Bio items were puffed up. That wasn't smart.

I still think he didn't become incompetent overnight when he managed 5 previous disasters, but there will be no way to get that across now.



Some fluff? Saying you were Assistant Director when you were the assistant TO the Director? Assistant Directoor is a REAL position, assistant TO the director is a lackey. The first doesn't get the director's lunch, the second typically DOES. Come on, SOME fluff???

SERIOUS disasters shine a spotlight on the VERY compentant, and the extremely incompetant. Smaller disasters make incompetance harder to notice, that's all. (Not to say that the FL hurricane disasters weren't SERIOUS, they were, but FL has both more EXPERIENCE w/hurricanes (small and large) as well as not having fragile infrastructure to exacerbate an already bad situation).

IOW, if the levies had held, none of us would even know who the Phoque Mike Brown IS. As the hurricane damage itself was serious, but not catastrophic. The levies going is what turned a disaster into a catastrophy.
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