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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/4/2005 9:41:58 AM EDT
FEMA Responds Harshly to Armed Arizona Police Escort
ASSOCIATED PRESS



PHOENIX (AP) -- The Phoenix Fire Department's Urban Search and Rescue team has been suspended from a federal agency because it sent armed police officers to protect firefighters during the recent hurricanes in the Gulf Coast.

At issue is a rule in the Federal Emergency Management Agency's Code of Conduct that prohibits Urban Search and Rescue teams from having firearms.

Phoenix's team that deployed for Hurricane Katrina relief and again for Hurricane Rita included four police officers deputized as U.S. marshals.

The team was credited with plucking more than 400 Hurricane Katrina survivors from rooftops and freeway overpasses in flooded sections of New Orleans.


Phoenix officials now are threatening to refuse some of the most dangerous deployments in the future or possibly even pull out of the federal agency altogether, unless the rules are changed to allow teams to bring their own security, even if that means police with guns.

Assistant Phoenix Fire Chief Bob Khan said his department also is questioning the federal agency's ability to manage working conditions, security and communications.

''Our priority has to be the safety of the firefighters we're sending,'' Khan said.

Phoenix police were added to the team about a year ago, and officials say they are essential to protecting firefighters and FEMA's $1.4 million worth of equipment. Firefighters do not carry weapons.

''This is crazy,'' Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon said Monday. ''This is a rule that was designed before the world changed, pre-9/11. You can't stand on bureaucracy if we're going to protect and save lives, and that's what these teams do.''

FEMA relies on 28 elite teams like Phoenix's across the country to perform specialized rescue operations immediately after terrorist attacks and natural disasters.

After Hurricane Katrina, firefighters faced deployment to areas plagued by looting and lawlessness. Twice, Phoenix's team was confronted by law enforcement officers who refused to let them pass through their communities and told them to ''get out or get shot,'' Gordon said.

Phoenix's team was demobilized unexpectedly on Sept. 26 after members were seen embarking on a helicopter sortie with a loaded shotgun while assigned to help with the aftermath of Rita.

In a letter to Phoenix Fire Chief Alan Brunacini dated Sept. 29, FEMA said Phoenix was placed on ''non-deployment status'' essentially for including armed police on the team without approval.

Gordon has sent a letter to FEMA officials requesting that the Code of Conduct ''be changed from an unrealistic 'No firearms allowed' to a common-sense 'No firearms allowed except for U.S. marshals integrated into the USAR team.'''

Information from: The Arizona Republic

Copyright 2005 Associated Press

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:43:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 9:47:16 AM EDT by w4klr]


So I guess all the alphabet agencies except FEMA can carry a gun? And then people that work with FEMA can't have one either? Fuck disaster areas then. I think it is more sensible to have an armed S&R guy in the shit, as opposed to an armed accountant with national carry ability.

ETA: What pussies.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:44:57 AM EDT

Twice, Phoenix's team was confronted by law enforcement officers who refused to let them pass through their communities and told them to ''get out or get shot,'' Gordon said.


Just like Somali warlords.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:46:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Gordon has sent a letter to FEMA officials requesting that the Code of Conduct ''be changed from an unrealistic 'No firearms allowed' to a common-sense 'No firearms allowed except for U.S. marshals integrated into the USAR team.'''

It should be "all EMS/SAR/etc... teams can carry their own weapons to the danger zone based on their personal analysis" because they're the ones going in.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:48:21 AM EDT
It is likely that we would be better served by eliminating FEMA.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:00:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Twice, Phoenix's team was confronted by law enforcement officers who refused to let them pass through their communities and told them to ''get out or get shot,'' Gordon said.


Just like Somali warlords.




You're a genius.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:05:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Twice, Phoenix's team was confronted by law enforcement officers who refused to let them pass through their communities and told them to ''get out or get shot,'' Gordon said.


Just like Somali warlords.




You're a genius.



He's a misunderstood genius.................................
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:05:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Twice, Phoenix's team was confronted by law enforcement officers who refused to let them pass through their communities and told them to ''get out or get shot,'' Gordon said.



Shot by whom, the looters or the police? I would assume they meant shot by looters, but it's not clear.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:08:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Gordon has sent a letter to FEMA officials requesting that the Code of Conduct ''be changed from an unrealistic 'No firearms allowed' to a common-sense 'No firearms allowed except for U.S. marshals integrated into the USAR team.'''

It should be "all EMS/SAR/etc... teams can carry their own weapons to the danger zone based on their personal analysis" because they're the ones going in.



It should be rescue people specialize in rescue.
EMS people specialize in treating, stabilizing inuries.
Security personnel specialize in securing the area.

If one person tries to do all 3 they may be able to do all 3 poorly.........................
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:08:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Twice, Phoenix's team was confronted by law enforcement officers who refused to let them pass through their communities and told them to ''get out or get shot,'' Gordon said.


Just like Somali warlords.




You're a genius.



He's a misunderstood genius.................................



Usually I'm just misunderstood.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:09:06 AM EDT
It is likely that we would be better served by eliminating FEMA.


+1

And "Homeland Security" is no better. It was "Homeland Security" that stopped Red Cross and Salvation Army from bringing in much needed food and water into New Orleans.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:23:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 10:27:32 AM EDT by FLAL1A]
Here it comes, boys: federalization of first responders. The feds (FEMA) call the shots on evacuations, FEHRA (federal Emergency Health & Rescue Administration) will do the SAR work, and FEPA (Federal Emergency Police Agency), under the direction of Hillary Clinton's FEMA head, will be responsible for enforcing evacuations, disarming people in disaster areas, and patrolling until normality is restored. They will be stationed around the country for rapid deployment.

Why? Because, on the one hand, even George Bush can't bear the thought of pinko Congressional barn burners like Maxine Waters criticizing him for responding too slowly (meaning "in accordance with general principles of federalism") and allowing people to suffer (meaning "allowing welfare slugs to suffer the incompetence of the thieving morons they voted into local office to deal with local emergencies"). FEMA can't stand to be dissed by local cops and firemen. Local firemen and cops won't trust FEMA to protect them. We cannot let petty bureaucratic tribalism and turf wars get in the way of helping people in need.

Next question: Is it fair to exclude the epidemic of carjackings in Opa Locka from the definition of "emergency?" People are suffering and dying. We need the enhanced security that FEPA can bring, and FEPA officers need ongoing training and experience. Hello, Federal Police. Goodbye, America.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:48:09 AM EDT
FEMA has a program for training people as first responders in their communities.

I looked into it, but I figure as a basic civilian I'm better prepared to take care of me & mine. Kinda like CCW in the mall when the security guards only carry pepper spray and handcuffs.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 11:46:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slotback:
It is likely that we would be better served by eliminating FEMA.


Agreed.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 11:54:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Here it comes, boys: federalization of first responders. The feds (FEMA) call the shots on evacuations, FEHRA (federal Emergency Health & Rescue Administration) will do the SAR work, and FEPA (Federal Emergency Police Agency), under the direction of Hillary Clinton's FEMA head, will be responsible for enforcing evacuations, disarming people in disaster areas, and patrolling until normality is restored. They will be stationed around the country for rapid deployment.

Why? Because, on the one hand, even George Bush can't bear the thought of pinko Congressional barn burners like Maxine Waters criticizing him for responding too slowly (meaning "in accordance with general principles of federalism") and allowing people to suffer (meaning "allowing welfare slugs to suffer the incompetence of the thieving morons they voted into local office to deal with local emergencies"). FEMA can't stand to be dissed by local cops and firemen. Local firemen and cops won't trust FEMA to protect them. We cannot let petty bureaucratic tribalism and turf wars get in the way of helping people in need.

Next question: Is it fair to exclude the epidemic of carjackings in Opa Locka from the definition of "emergency?" People are suffering and dying. We need the enhanced security that FEPA can bring, and FEPA officers need ongoing training and experience. Hello, Federal Police. Goodbye, America.



The sheep won't bat an eye either.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 5:32:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Phoenix's team was demobilized unexpectedly on Sept. 26 after members were seen embarking on a helicopter sortie with a loaded shotgun while assigned to help with the aftermath of Rita.




Sean Penn had a shotgun on his rescue mission, why can't they??
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:27:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 5:30:19 AM EDT by kill-9]


ETA: Just saw this on Drudge. Does this FEMA rule extend to contractors hired by FEMA to go do repairs or otherwise help with the recovery?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:31:29 AM EDT
Sounds like those FEMA clowns are more retarded than we thought.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:48:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
It is likely that we would be better served by eliminating FEMA.


+1

And "Homeland Security" is no better. It was "Homeland Security" that stopped Red Cross and Salvation Army from bringing in much needed food and water into New Orleans.



More correctly stated, it was the State of Louisiana Dept of Homeland Security that stopped the Red Cross.


Much of the snafu involved with FEMA makes me think that it is far too top heavy with a culture of litegation avoidance & too much lawyerly input on policy.

As with any task, too my accountants & lawyers can prevent timely accomplishment.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:58:18 AM EDT
My Sister is with a FEMA team, and everyone knows they arent allowed to be armed. Period. Its how they do business. And everyone associated with FEMA knows it.

And didnt GW say the other day, we needed to decide at what point we want FED's armed when responding to state situations in reference to standing law???

I want most of the .fed disarmed, and this policy is a step in the right direction.
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