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Posted: 3/19/2002 5:44:12 PM EDT
[#1]
it's very possible but I dont buy it. I believe that we still could have successfully defended ourselves at Pearl and still had the desired outcome that our government supposedly wanted.
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Posted: 3/19/2002 6:42:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Robert Stinnett also wrote a book on the subject:
[url]http://www.liberty-tree.org/ltn/dayofdeceit.html[/url] Excellent research. FDR's defenders have to either debunk Stinnett's book, or explain the facts it presents. Failing that, we have to accept that FDR [i]did[/i] know in advance, and was in effect a traitor. For what it is worth, I have heard several lame attempts at defending FDR on the History Channel and elsewhere. |
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Posted: 3/19/2002 6:47:28 PM EDT
[#3]
You have to remember 3 things about FDR:
1 - He was an avowed collectivist. 2 - He was the pre-Clinton Clinton. 3 - He was a smiling sack of $hit. |
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Posted: 3/19/2002 6:58:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Didn't we do this three months ago?
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Posted: 3/19/2002 7:04:28 PM EDT
[#5]
This is old news, and your point is?
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Posted: 3/19/2002 7:15:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: This is old news, and your point is? His point is, as always, that America is inherently evil and is always in the wrong, no matter what. He never has any other point. |
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Posted: 3/19/2002 7:35:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: His point is, as always, that America is inherently evil and is always in the wrong, no matter what. He never has any other point. First, who or what do you mean by America? The government? The people? Second, I don't believe American people or the American gov't to be inherently evil. I won't deny that they do some evil things(whether they know it is evil or wrong or not), but they often do some good(although I'll be hard pressed to come up with an example of the government doing ANYTHING good, but there are tons of examples of people doing good) Third, the above applies to "always in the wrong", although the government definitely heads in that direction way more often than not. Finally, my point is this: Government(whether America's or not) is more often than not bad and is destructive. I bring attention to America's because if the best can go bad, image the worst? What is your point? That is America is always good and always in the right? |
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Posted: 3/19/2002 7:45:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Excellent Interview with a guy who did extensive research of Gov't papers obtained through FOIA requests. [url]http://www.independent.org/tii/news/020311Cirignano.html[/url] Ah yes, libertyof76 proving once again that no horse is too dead to beat. |
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Posted: 3/20/2002 4:50:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Finally, my point is this: Government(whether America's or not) is more often than not bad and is destructive. I bring attention to America's because if the best can go bad, image the worst? Ah, that's why you CONSTANTLY and INCESSANTLY post ARTICLE AFTER ARTICLE detailing EVERY SINGLE crackpot conspiracy theory that makes the US look bad, right? Maybe you've even fooled yourself... |
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Posted: 3/20/2002 4:56:07 AM EDT
[#10]
If [b]only[/b] he had listened to Nostrademus! All this was laid out hundreds of years ago.
Bad! Bad government. |
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Posted: 3/20/2002 5:02:32 AM EDT
[#11]
Okay, I'll step up to the plate for libertyof76.
I too believe we knew the Japanese were planning on attacking Pearl Harbor. Question is, did we provoke it? Here again I believe we did...but not by a scheme behind closed doors in order to get us into the war. It was through actions from the begining of the 1900's. So, what confuses me is, if we new it was coming and we had prepared for it, wouldn't we have entered the war anyway? Or if by preparing for it and tipping our hand that we knew it was coming would the Japanese have aborted the attack? Therein lies the question. If Japan had not attacked us and we hadn't entered the war, would England be speaking German today? To me it's obvious by simply looking at our response. Although Germany declared war on us, they never actually attacked us, but we immediately put a higher priority on defeating them first. You would think we would have went all out against Japan first considering the attack they made on us. The possibilities are endless. However I do believe we knew it was coming. |
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Posted: 3/20/2002 5:04:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Well, if FDR really set America up to take a fall at Pearl Harbor, just so he could help his Bilderberger Buddies continue their fight against Hitler (assuming the Bilderbergers [u]were[/u] fighting against Hitler), then one thing is very clear to me.
[b]FDR was a military genius![/b] Despite all of the leading naval experts of the time who insisted that battleships were the backbone of any navy, FDR purposefully sacrificed those ships, saving the US carriers by making certain they were at sea during the attack. Aircraft carriers were at that point untested in naval warfare, but FDR was willing to bet the West Coast that they would be all we needed to defend ourselves from Japanese battleships! Clever bastard, that FDR! Eric The(Facetious)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 3/20/2002 5:13:54 AM EDT
[#13]
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html
ftp://ftp.purdue.edu/pub/Liberal-Arts/History/pha/pearl.harbor/congress/ I have reviewed loads of information regarding the Pearl Harbor conspiracy. I will not try to convince anybody of it's existance. The best knowledge a person may posses is the knowledge that they gather themselves. I will say that I am fully convinced that some in the US knew it was going to occur and did their best to keep it a secret. Did all of the government know? certainly not. Did some attempt to cover it up? Yes. Do I trust everybody in government to do the right thing? NO "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." Thomas Jefferson Eternal vigilance does not mean believing that politicians only have our best interests in mind. |
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Posted: 3/20/2002 5:20:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Finally, my point is this: Government(whether America's or not) is more often than not bad and is destructive. I bring attention to America's because if the best can go bad, image the worst? |
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Posted: 3/20/2002 5:30:44 AM EDT
[#15]
I think a good dose of cynicism and suspicion is a healthy thing to have, especially when dealing with such matters as how governments are operated.
So whether it's from the Left or the Right, let everything be published and, if an idea or belief is deemed worthy, it will be accepted and become a part of the 'conventional wisdom.' If not, it will be assigned to the dustbin of history. Or have a permanent website on the Internet. Eric The('LetA100FlowersBloom'-Mao)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 3/20/2002 10:31:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: it's very possible but I dont buy it. I believe that we still could have successfully defended ourselves at Pearl and still had the desired outcome that our government supposedly wanted. This is very much to the point. If we knew that Pearl was to be attacked, how did it benefit us to have nearly the entire Battle Line sunk at anchor? Wouldn't it have been better to have sortied and attacked the Japanese Imperial Fleet when it was far, far from home? The Pearl Harbor conspiracy fans never [i]quite[/i] have enough proof. Possibly because such proof does not exist. |
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Posted: 3/20/2002 3:26:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: I find it hard sometimes to distinguish between far right anarchists and far left anarchists. Which are you? Neither. I am a libertarian, not an anarchist. ANd there is no such thing as a left wing anarchist. Left wingers are anti-liberty folks, and anarchists are pro-liberty(to the extreme) You would be right at home at democraticunderground.com. Hardly. They would HATE me because of my beliefs on: Capitalism and the free market Guns Feminism Government Liberty The Constitution and well, pretty much everything I believe. We are polar opposites. They whine about imperialism, until a left wing government does it. Then they are all for it. They only hate right wing imperialism. I, on the other hand, oppose ALL interventionism. |
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Posted: 3/21/2002 9:30:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Left wingers are anti-liberty folks, and anarchists are pro-liberty(to the extreme) Wrong. Anarchists are pro-license. License is having the freedom to do you want. Liberty is having the freedom to do what you [b]should[/b]. Just my 2¢. |
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