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Posted: 10/9/2005 9:07:41 PM EDT
FBI Considers Relaxing Drug-Use Policy for Applicants
TED BRIDIS
Associated Press Writer


The FBI, famous for its straight-laced crime-fighting image, is considering whether to relax its hiring rules over how often applicants could have used marijuana or other illegal drugs earlier in life.

Some senior FBI managers have been deeply frustrated that they could not hire applicants who acknowledged occasional marijuana use in college, but in some cases already perform top-secret work at other government agencies, such as the CIA or State Department.

FBI Director Robert Mueller will make the final decision. "We can't say when or if this is going to happen, but we are exploring the possibility," spokesman Stephen Kodak said

The change would ease limits about how often _ and how many years ago _ applicants for jobs such as intelligence analysts, linguists, computer specialists, accountants and others had used illegal drugs.

The rules, however, would not be relaxed for FBI special agents, the fabled "G-men" who conduct most criminal and terrorism investigations. Also, the new plan would continue to ban current drug use.

The nation's former anti-drug czar said he understands the FBI's dilemma.

"The integrity of the FBI is a known national treasure that must be protected," said retired Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, who used to head the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy. "But there should be no hard and fast rule that suggests you can't ever have used drugs. As long as it's clear that's behind you and you're overwhelmingly likely to remain drug free, you should be eligible."

Current rules prohibit the FBI from hiring anyone who used marijuana within the past three years or more than 15 times ever. They also ban anyone who used other illegal drugs, such as cocaine or heroin, within the past 10 years or more than five times.

"That 16th time is a killer," McCaffrey said.

The new FBI proposal would judge applicants based on their "whole person" rather than limiting drug-related experiences to an arbitrary number. It would consider the circumstances of a person's previous drug use, such as their age, and the likelihood of future usage. The relaxed standard already is in use at most other U.S. intelligence agencies.

Entry-level intelligence analysts usually earn between $36,000 and $53,000, depending on qualifications and where they are assigned to work. Entry-level FBI special agents earn $42,548.

The FBI proposal contrasts with the agency's starched image and its drug-fighting history. A generation of video game players can remember seeing the FBI seal and slogan, "Winners don't use drugs," attributed to former FBI Director William Sessions, on popular arcade games from the late 1980s.

Private companies have wrestled with the same problem. Employers complain they can't afford to turn away applicants because of marijuana use that ended years earlier, said Robert Drusendahl, owner of The Pre-Check Co. in Cleveland, which performs background employment checks for private companies.

"The point is, they can't fill those spots," Drusendahl said. "This is a microcosm of what's happening outside in the rest of the world. Do we dilute our standards?" He said the FBI should have a low tolerance for any illegal behavior by applicants. "If they used marijuana, that's illegal. It's pretty cut and dried."

A recently retired FBI polygraph examiner, Harold L. Byford of El Paso, Texas, was quoted in a federal lawsuit in February 2002 arguing that "if someone has smoked marijuana 15 times, he's done it 50 times. ... If I was running the show there would be no one in the FBI that ever used illegal drugs!"

The proposed FBI change also reflects cultural and generational shifts in attitudes toward marijuana and other drugs, even as the Bush administration has sought to establish links between terrorists and narcotics.

"I don't think you could find anybody who hasn't tried marijuana, and I take a lot of credit for that," said Tommy Chong, the comedian whose films with Cheech Marin provided over-the-top portrayals of marijuana culture during the 1980s. "They're going to have to change their policy."

While marijuana use is hardly universal, it remains the most commonly used illegal drug in the United States, with about half of teenagers trying the drug before they graduate high school.

"What people did when they were 18 or 21, I think that is pretty irrelevant," said Richard Clarke, a former top White House counterterrorism adviser. "We have to recognize there are a couple of generations now who regarded marijuana use, while it's technically illegal, as nothing more serious than jaywalking."

An agency's attitude toward drug use has been blamed for unexpected consequences. The CIA forced one of its officers, Edward Lee Howard, to resign in May 1983 after he failed a polygraph test and disclosed his drug use in Colombia during 1975 when he was a Peace Corps volunteer. Howard defected to the Soviet Union in 1985 after he was accused of espionage activities that spy hunters believe were driven by resentment over his forced resignation.

"I had been totally honest about each and every misdeed in my past, including my drug use in South America and my occasional abuse of alcohol," Howard wrote in his 1995 memoirs. He died in July 2002 at his home outside Moscow.

Some other federal agencies also have tough marijuana policies. The Drug Enforcement Administration will not hire applicants as agents who used illegal drugs, although it makes exceptions for admitting "limited youthful and experimental use of marijuana." The DEA, however, permits no prior use of harder drugs.

"Recreational marijuana use is a fact of life nowadays," said Mark Zaid, a Washington lawyer who has represented people rejected for FBI jobs over drugs. "It doesn't stop Supreme Court justices from getting on the bench and doesn't stop presidents from getting elected, so why should it stop someone from getting hired by the FBI?"

For a while my agency would hire female applicants who admitted methamphetamine use as long as they stopped at least three years prior to date of application!  I notice that most job applications ask the applicant if they have ever been arrested, but instruct the applicant to not include any misdemeanor drug arrest/coinvictions.  So you have to list DUIs, bar fight, steet racing, public urination, open container, or swithblade ticket, but dont list pot tickets, unlawfull RX drug possession, Under the influence arrests, or simple possession of meth/coke/heroin arrests.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:11:27 PM EDT
[#1]
How are they "dopers" if they haven't touched the stuff in a while, and have no intention of doing so again?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:11:59 PM EDT
[#2]
It's pretty hard in these days to want to hire college grads but college grads that have never tried drugs.  

There is a time and place for all kinds of illegal stuff and it is called college.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:20:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot in thier teen years and early twenties () is major bullshit.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:26:16 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot...

Read the article.  They are hiring people who admitt to hard drug use as recently as 5yrs & 1-day ago.  Do you want crack addicts in the FBI? even a crack addict is smart enough to learn the standards and tell the interviewer "i only did it four times and stopped six years ago"
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:33:21 PM EDT
[#5]
It pisses me of i never tried anything hell i would not even know where to get it
but my street racing ticket from when i was 18 turned up in a background check for a job once  ( I was 28 at the time ) and it was a big fucking deal  but  drug use( or arrest) as long as it was more than 5 years ago  it was ok, but drag racing in the middle of nowhetre at 3am a decade ago is a big fucking deal  
I nicely told them that . needless to say i did not get the job
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:34:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Good.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:34:48 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
It's pretty hard in these days to want to hire college grads but college grads that have never tried drugs.  

There is a time and place for all kinds of illegal stuff and it is called college.



No it's not! College is a place to learn and get a edge, not a place to use illegal drugs and fuck up your life but then if you need to use drugs in the first place you don't have much of a life to begin with let alone any honor.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:36:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Damn, Wolfman is going to have a job after all.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:38:24 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot...

Read the article.  They are hiring people who admitt to hard drug use as recently as 5yrs & 1-day ago.  Do you want crack addicts in the FBI? even a crack addict is smart enough to learn the standards and tell the interviewer "i only did it four times and stopped six years ago"



If they haven't touched it in 5 years, I have a hard time calling them an addict. People change for the better, you know.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:39:50 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's pretty hard in these days to want to hire college grads but college grads that have never tried drugs.  

There is a time and place for all kinds of illegal stuff and it is called college.



No it's not! College is a place to learn and get a edge, not a place to use illegal drugs and fuck up your life but then if you need to use drugs in the first place you don't have much of a life to begin with let alone any honor.



Yeah that's it.

I bet you didn't get laid much in college did you?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:39:57 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot...

Read the article.  They are hiring people who admitt to hard drug use as recently as 5yrs & 1-day ago.  Do you want crack addicts in the FBI? even a crack addict is smart enough to learn the standards and tell the interviewer "i only did it four times and stopped six years ago"




If he's a smart crack addict he'll say he never did any crack at all.  What's going to catch him?  The polygraph?  

The only people who get fucked by tighter standards are those who are honest.  The majority of the intelligent, capable, decent, and patriotic people with a college degree in this country would not meet drug standards for the FBI/CIA.  Maybe that's part of the reason why the FBI and CIA are so full of incompetent jackasses who are unable to think outside the box.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:40:11 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot...

Read the article.  They are hiring people who admitt to hard drug use as recently as 5yrs & 1-day ago.  Do you want crack addicts in the FBI? even a crack addict is smart enough to learn the standards and tell the interviewer "i only did it four times and stopped six years ago"



If they haven't touched it in 5 years, I have a hard time calling them an addict. People change for the better, you know.


yes but the FBI or any type of  LE is NOT the place to get your second chance
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:42:09 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's pretty hard in these days to want to hire college grads but college grads that have never tried drugs.  

There is a time and place for all kinds of illegal stuff and it is called college.



No it's not! College is a place to learn and get a edge, not a place to use illegal drugs and fuck up your life but then if you need to use drugs in the first place you don't have much of a life to begin with let alone any honor.



Yeah that's it.

I bet you didn't get laid much in college did you?



Drugs might help some people get laid but others don't need that kind of help at all.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:46:38 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot...

Read the article.  They are hiring people who admitt to hard drug use as recently as 5yrs & 1-day ago.  Do you want crack addicts in the FBI? even a crack addict is smart enough to learn the standards and tell the interviewer "i only did it four times and stopped six years ago"



If they haven't touched it in 5 years, I have a hard time calling them an addict. People change for the better, you know.



Oh, you assume people actually tell the truth in those interviews. I dont.  There are only two types of people, those who can pass a polygraph test stating they never used any illegal drug, and those who cant.  If an applicant says he was tweaking up until 5 years ago I'm gonna assume he's still tweeking absent strong evidence otherwise. There are plenty of candidates who have not used illegal drugs.  with schools and the military requiring random drug tests it should not be difficult to find appicants who never used illegal drugs. Of course hiring nothing but former Marines who have four years or more of clean piss tests as evidence of their lack of drug use wont give you the diverse workforce that the Feds want.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:49:36 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's pretty hard in these days to want to hire college grads but college grads that have never tried drugs.  

There is a time and place for all kinds of illegal stuff and it is called college.



No it's not! College is a place to learn and get a edge, not a place to use illegal drugs and fuck up your life but then if you need to use drugs in the first place you don't have much of a life to begin with let alone any honor.



Yeah that's it.

I bet you didn't get laid much in college did you?



Drugs might help some people get laid but others don't need that kind of help at all.



Where was it said that anyone here needed drugs to get laid?

I was refering to you as a tight wad. That's all.  

Some people have ALL the answers.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:56:45 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's pretty hard in these days to want to hire college grads but college grads that have never tried drugs.  

There is a time and place for all kinds of illegal stuff and it is called college.



No it's not! College is a place to learn and get a edge, not a place to use illegal drugs and fuck up your life but then if you need to use drugs in the first place you don't have much of a life to begin with let alone any honor.



Yeah that's it.

I bet you didn't get laid much in college did you?



Drugs might help some people get laid but others don't need that kind of help at all.



Where was it said that anyone here needed drugs to get laid?

I was refering to you as a tight wad. That's all.  

Some people have ALL the answers.



I'm not a tight wad. I was just raised with enough love and disaplin to be able to say no to drugs and make smart choices in my life. I pray my kids will also have that strength.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 9:59:07 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot...

Read the article.  They are hiring people who admitt to hard drug use as recently as 5yrs & 1-day ago.  Do you want crack addicts in the FBI? even a crack addict is smart enough to learn the standards and tell the interviewer "i only did it four times and stopped six years ago"



If they haven't touched it in 5 years, I have a hard time calling them an addict. People change for the better, you know.



Oh, you assume people actually tell the truth in those interviews. I dont.  There are only two types of people, those who can pass a polygraph test stating they never used any illegal drug, and those who cant.  If an applicant says he was tweaking up until 5 years ago I'm gonna assume he's still tweeking absent strong evidence otherwise. There are plenty of candidates who have not used illegal drugs.  with schools and the military requiring random drug tests it should not be difficult to find appicants who never used illegal drugs. Of course hiring nothing but former Marines who have four years or more of clean piss tests as evidence of their lack of drug use wont give you the diverse workforce that the Feds want.



1. Polygraphs are only slightly better than reading entrails.
2. The vast majority of people who use hard drugs are not and do not become addicts.
3. Having four or five or 20 years of clean piss tests doesn't indicate that a person didn't use drugs during that time.  
4. Military service in no way assures that a person didn't or doesn't use drugs.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:00:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Pot and "crack" are two totally different things...anyone who says otherwise is sadly ignorant and myopic.  
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:04:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Here, the DoD has the sanest standards in government:

For applicants, the prevalence of drug use in the United States suggests that some prior experimental or brief recreational drug use is to be expected among many otherwise well qualified individuals. Drug use reached a peak in 1981, when 65.6% of high school seniors had used some illegal drug at some time during their lives. Drug use among high school seniors gradually declined until 1992, when 40.7% reported some previous drug use. It has increased regularly since 1992, and in 1996 50.8% of high school seniors reported using some illegal drug at some time during their life. Ref 5 Applicants who admit prior drug use may be more honest than many who have used drugs but don't admit it. See Some Prior Drug Use Is Not Abnormal and Prevalence of Drug Use........Given the statistics on prevalence of drug use, some experimentation with drugs, especially marijuana, cannot be considered abnormal behavior among younger Americans at this time.

www.dss.mil/nf/adr/drugs/drugsF.htm

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:07:53 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot...

Read the article.  They are hiring people who admitt to hard drug use as recently as 5yrs & 1-day ago.  Do you want crack addicts in the FBI? even a crack addict is smart enough to learn the standards and tell the interviewer "i only did it four times and stopped six years ago"



If they haven't touched it in 5 years, I have a hard time calling them an addict. People change for the better, you know.



Oh, you assume people actually tell the truth in those interviews. I dont.  There are only two types of people, those who can pass a polygraph test stating they never used any illegal drug, and those who cant.  If an applicant says he was tweaking up until 5 years ago I'm gonna assume he's still tweeking absent strong evidence otherwise. There are plenty of candidates who have not used illegal drugs.  with schools and the military requiring random drug tests it should not be difficult to find appicants who never used illegal drugs. Of course hiring nothing but former Marines who have four years or more of clean piss tests as evidence of their lack of drug use wont give you the diverse workforce that the Feds want.



A Marine with four years of clean piss tests may just know how to beat the tests.  The dumb rules should go.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:11:29 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

The only people who get fucked by tighter standards are those who are honest.  The majority of the intelligent, capable, decent, and patriotic people with a college degree in this country would not meet drug standards for the FBI/CIA.  Maybe that's part of the reason why the FBI and CIA are so full of incompetent jackasses who are unable to think outside the box.



+1000





Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:18:46 PM EDT
[#22]
As a former background investigator, it was always very hard to sit across a desk from, and recommend for hire, some recent college criminal justice grad who admitted to using drugs in college.  Especially since they used drugs AFTER they had made up their mind to want to be  LEO's.  Sort of like "Well, I'm in college, I want to be a cop, but I'll go ahead and get high while I'm here, but then stop after I graduate and start looking for a job."  BS.  I would rather hire some long-haired weed-smokin' hippie.    
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:23:26 PM EDT
[#23]




Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:37:51 PM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The only people who get fucked by tighter standards are those who are honest.  The majority of the intelligent, capable, decent, and patriotic people with a college degree in this country would not meet drug standards for the FBI/CIA.  Maybe that's part of the reason why the FBI and CIA are so full of incompetent jackasses who are unable to think outside the box.



+1000








I'll second that.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:41:15 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The only people who get fucked by tighter standards are those who are honest.  The majority of the intelligent, capable, decent, and patriotic people with a college degree in this country would not meet drug standards for the FBI/CIA.  Maybe that's part of the reason why the FBI and CIA are so full of incompetent jackasses who are unable to think outside the box.



+1000









<stoner voice> Right on man!  <stoner voice>

No, seriously though, right on.  Dorks are more a problem to society than an ex-pot-head.  


You say jump, they (dorks) say: "uggh, g = 9.8m/s^2 therefore based on my earth weight, my vector......aaaiiin...I have never been laid...."


I am surrounded with these quote unquote "brilliant" academicians who don't know shit.  Yes they can do physics and mathematics...and maybe I could if I decided to not enjoy life, have a few cocktails and get laid...but they are exactly as said above, "IN THE BOX!"  Street-wise, they are retarded; they wouldn't be able to figure out how to eat unless they were instructed and shown the graphical mathematical representation on how to open their mouths.




I don't know...rant is over.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:45:47 PM EDT
[#26]


"That 16th time is a killer," McCaffrey said.



I've often thought the same thing about the FBI's policy. It's just so.. I don't know, perfectly bureaucratic.  The guy that smoked pot 15 seperate times is fine, but 16?  That's just not fit for service.

I'm really starting to be happy that I don't work for the government.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 10:59:01 PM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:

There are plenty of candidates who have not used illegal drugs.  



Better unqualified people in the job than qualified people who smoked a joint in college?

Interesting concept.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:15:41 PM EDT
[#28]
its a double edged sword in either direction.  if you do not admit people who have had ANY experience with drugs or strayed at any point in their life, then the people you have working for you may have a very narrow focus and be essentially the same individual repeated over and over.

sometimes those that stray from the norms of society are whats needed to solve a problem, because they often arent confined to the same ways of thinking that the straight edges are.  the problem is that often not following the same path as everyone else makes you a target early on and disqualifies you instantly for much later in life.


not saying thats what happened in my case, but i got in a lot of minor trouble in youth overseas in germany, a lot of fighting between the ages of 14-16, little bit of pot smoking but never busted. never convicted of anything, but arrested plenty.  all of this comes up 5-6 years later when i try to join the army and actually causes me to disqualify.  

they didnt care that in the time since then ive attended 2 years of college, gotten married, had 2 kids, and worked my butt off every single day since then.  just that sheet with a small list of juvenile non-convictions from a decade ago was enough to drop me.

its taken me another five years of congressional inquiries, lawyers, hours and hours locating and disputing overseas records and changing recruiters like dirty underwear to finally get accepted.  

all this could have been avoided if people acknowledged that it is fully possible to still be a productive citizen even if you were essentially a bad kid.  simple mistakes in youth shouldnt be judges of character into adulthood because you arent the same person in any way. you never are.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:24:47 PM EDT
[#29]
For the "everybody in college does drugs" crowd.  I am a senior, the hardest thing I have done is Jack Daniels.  

I hate Pot.  

There are a fair number of clean kids out there, you just have to look for them.  I would also say that the FBI and CIA require an unusually high GPA.  This eliminates most of the normal people, and I would say alot of the "geniuses" have done it in the past.  
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:01:54 AM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's pretty hard in these days to want to hire college grads but college grads that have never tried drugs.  

There is a time and place for all kinds of illegal stuff and it is called college.



No it's not! College is a place to learn and get a edge, not a place to use illegal drugs and fuck up your life but then if you need to use drugs in the first place you don't have much of a life to begin with let alone any honor.



Just FYI, most of the world uses recreational drugs of some sort so that would make the abstainers the odd men out.

Also just FYI, a few years back someone did a study of the mental health of kids in high school who used illegal drugs versus those who didn't. They found that the ones who experimented with illegal drugs had better mental health overall than those who abstained completely. If you think about it, you might guess the reason for this. The teen years are a natural time of experimentation and testing society's rules and those who were afraid to experiment and test the rules were not well-equipped to handle other life challenges.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:03:46 AM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot...

Read the article.  They are hiring people who admitt to hard drug use as recently as 5yrs & 1-day ago.  Do you want crack addicts in the FBI? even a crack addict is smart enough to learn the standards and tell the interviewer "i only did it four times and stopped six years ago"



I must have missed the news reports on this. Has there been some big problem with crack addicts lining up to join the FBI lately?  I could be wrong, but it just seems to me that crack addicts wouldn't be especially interested in following that particular career.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:06:50 AM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
How are they "dopers" if they haven't touched the stuff in a while, and have no intention of doing so again?



If you had two beers ten years ago, you are still an alcoholic.  

You have to understand that some people just don't handle anything but absolute black and white concepts very well. Their brains just can't handle shades of gray. You will see it often in these discussions.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:14:17 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Oh, you assume people actually tell the truth in those interviews. I dont.  There are only two types of people, those who can pass a polygraph test stating they never used any illegal drug, and those who cant.



Would we be talking about the same polygraphs that have no science at all behind them and aren't really much better at detecting lies than flipping a coin?


If an applicant says he was tweaking up until 5 years ago I'm gonna assume he's still tweeking absent strong evidence otherwise.


Did you get marijuana confused with speed again? Marijuana is the green, leafy stuff.



There are plenty of candidates who have not used illegal drugs.  with schools and the military requiring random drug tests it should not be difficult to find appicants who never used illegal drugs.



Statistically, they would be the minority. So, by requiring people to be clean since birth you have eliminated more than half the candidates before you started.  Of course, I can see your point -- if they allow anyone who has used at all -- wellllll, that kinda says the whole drug policy is full of shit.

Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:15:17 AM EDT
[#34]
oh no!  they may hire some one who has smoked a couple of doobs before!!?



magina.  sand.

please...
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:22:26 AM EDT
[#35]
so is this an admission from the FBI that the WoD is bullshit and a lost cause?
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:27:40 AM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Oh, you assume people actually tell the truth in those interviews. I dont.  There are only two types of people, those who can pass a polygraph test stating they never used any illegal drug, and those who cant.



Would we be talking about the same polygraphs that have no science at all behind them and aren't really much better at detecting lies than flipping a coin?


If an applicant says he was tweaking up until 5 years ago I'm gonna assume he's still tweeking absent strong evidence otherwise.


Did you get marijuana confused with speed again? Marijuana is the green, leafy stuff.


There are plenty of candidates who have not used illegal drugs.  with schools and the military requiring random drug tests it should not be difficult to find appicants who never used illegal drugs.



Statistically, they would be the minority. So, by requiring people to be clean since birth you have eliminated more than half the candidates before you started.  Of course, I can see your point -- if they allow anyone who has used at all -- wellllll, that kinda says the whole drug policy is full of shit.




Isn't "speed" what they give our pilots in the military? uppers when they go, downers when they get back.

I seem to recall reading that somewhere??
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:28:37 AM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:
so is this an admission from the FBI that the WoD is bullshit and a lost cause?



they'd never admit that, even knowing it were true.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:30:35 AM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:

Isn't "speed" what they give our pilots in the military? uppers when they go, downers when they get back.

I seem to recall reading that somewhere??



Yep. They have been doing it for decades. If you search at www.mapinc.org you can find a number of news articles that talk about it.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:34:24 AM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Isn't "speed" what they give our pilots in the military? uppers when they go, downers when they get back.

I seem to recall reading that somewhere??



Yep. They have been doing it for decades. If you search at www.mapinc.org you can find a number of news articles that talk about it.



thank you,  
drugs are bad, except ........

the famous mixed message.

Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:38:19 AM EDT
[#40]

If an applicant says he was tweaking up until 5 years ago I'm gonna assume he's still tweeking absent strong evidence otherwise.


Just to use my own personal experience as a reference, I was in the Army at one time and did a little experimenting with alcohol. There was a time when I came back to the barracks one night and found that a few of my buddies were halfway through a big bottle of Vodka, making screwdrivers out of Vodka and orange soda pop. (Ok, so we had no class at all.)

I, being the sport that I am, decided that no buddies of mine were going to get ahead of me so I made a heroic effort to consume my share. As one might guess, I spent most of the rest of the night, into the next day, with my head in the toilet.

That was all it took for me. I decided right then and there that sober was more fun and my total consumption of alcohol since then wouldn't amount to a bottle of wine per year, on average -- including the champagne on New Year's Eve. (Oddly enough, I found that it got me invited to lots of parties because everyone knew I was the official Designated Driver, by my own choice.)

So how long after that would you have considered me to be an alcoholic unfit for government service?
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:52:33 AM EDT
[#41]

Quoted:
It's pretty hard in these days to want to hire college grads but college grads that have never tried drugs.  

There is a time and place for all kinds of illegal stuff and it is called college.



I'll take those jobs. Only drug I've done is alcohol, and now I rarely even do that other than maybe one beer with dinner on a non work night
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:30:11 AM EDT
[#42]

Quoted:
For the "everybody in college does drugs" crowd.  I am a senior, the hardest thing I have done is Jack Daniels.  
 



By any rational standard of measurement, that's the hardest of them all.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:41:08 AM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's pretty hard in these days to want to hire college grads but college grads that have never tried drugs.  

There is a time and place for all kinds of illegal stuff and it is called college.



No it's not! College is a place to learn and get a edge, not a place to use illegal drugs and fuck up your life but then if you need to use drugs in the first place you don't have much of a life to begin with let alone any honor.



Yeah that's it.

I bet you didn't get laid much in college did you?



Drugs might help some people get laid but others don't need that kind of help at all.



+1
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:54:52 AM EDT
[#44]
If the FBI just shot the crooks, they'd free up more drug-free manpower to go after the rest of them.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:00:26 AM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot in thier teen years and early twenties () is major bullshit.



Dear heavens....

We aren't talking about people working at McDonalds.

We are talking about people working for the FBI!!!!

Crimony!!
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:01:29 AM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:
Read the article.  They are hiring people who admitt to hard drug use as recently as 5yrs & 1-day ago.



It is actually the opposite, they are NOT hiring people who admit to minor drug use decades ago.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:03:41 AM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Good.  Impeding someone career-wise who smoked alot of pot in thier teen years and early twenties () is major bullshit.



Dear heavens....

We aren't talking about people working at McDonalds.

We are talking about people working for the FBI!!!!

Crimony!!



We are also talking about a society where more than half the general public has experimented with illegal drugs at one time or another and the vast majority have moved on in their lives.  We are also taking about an organization that has no apparent problem with agents who currently use alcohol, which causes far more problems in society than all the illegal drugs combined.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:29:39 AM EDT
[#48]

Quoted:
For the "everybody in college does drugs" crowd.  I am a senior, the hardest thing I have done is Jack Daniels.  

I hate Pot.  

There are a fair number of clean kids out there, you just have to look for them.  I would also say that the FBI and CIA require an unusually high GPA.  This eliminates most of the normal people, and I would say alot of the "geniuses" have done it in the past.  



You would have as hard a time getting a job as someone who admits to pot.  Interviewers always ask people who profess a preference for alcohol a LOT of follow up questions regarding the frequency and intensity of their preference.

shooter
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:30:41 AM EDT
[#49]

Quoted:
We are also talking about a society where more than half the general public has experimented with illegal drugs at one time or another and the vast majority have moved on in their lives.  We are also taking about an organization that has no apparent problem with agents who currently use alcohol, which causes far more problems in society than all the illegal drugs combined.



Ah yes. I see it now.

Those with a fundamental lack of respect for the law should be tasked with enforcing it.

Gotcha.

I feel better now!
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:33:09 AM EDT
[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We are also talking about a society where more than half the general public has experimented with illegal drugs at one time or another and the vast majority have moved on in their lives.  We are also taking about an organization that has no apparent problem with agents who currently use alcohol, which causes far more problems in society than all the illegal drugs combined.



Ah yes. I see it now.

Those with a fundamental lack of respect for the law should be tasked with enforcing it.

Gotcha.

I feel better now!



isn't that already a high percentage of law enforcement? Above the law syndrome?
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