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Posted: 11/28/2003 6:39:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 6:57:49 PM EDT
UNBELIEVABLE! In a wheelchair for what basically comes down to driving on dirt with no permit.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:07:30 PM EDT
Fucking JBT tax collectors. They kicked his ass because he didn't have proof that he paid his tariff to use THEIR (government) land for his recreation. Since when did the fucking land belong to the government and not the people anyway??? How fucking bad is it going to get before people start getting mad????
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:12:55 PM EDT
Plenty of people have gotten mad, they are labeled "domestic terrorists" and mad men. Read "The Ballad of Carl Drega". I forget the author. It will open your eyes in many ways. And leave you seeing red. -DEERSNIPER
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:15:40 PM EDT
Rephrased: How long before the [i]great majority[/i] of people get mad?
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:17:45 PM EDT
Just read the story, this govt. is out of control. They are servants of the people, not the other way around. It will be much worse before it gets better.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:20:07 PM EDT
I hope the boy recovers. I suspect the BLM pricks are gonna get what they deserve.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:21:46 PM EDT
kid was reaching for the doorhandle to the truck which is a WMD in and of itself. It would be the same as his index finger going unto the trigger on a gun.[/sarcasm] They always stick the BEST out in the middle of nowhere.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:23:37 PM EDT
I hope the boy recovers. I suspect the BLM pricks are gonna get what they deserve.
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I highly doubt it, hope i'm wrong.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:28:15 PM EDT
Sad to say but if this was a black kid from the ghetto, this would be a national headlined story. It would be on CNN/ABC/FOX/NBC. Katie Couric would have interviwed the victim already, I'm sure. Now, since it's a white kid that was actually going to serve his country, nope, you won't hear shit about it. The thing that I love about this is that the victim's family has connections with a congressman. The dad and the congressman know each other from Top Gun. I hope they hang those fucking JBTs by their puny little nut sacks.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:33:43 PM EDT
This pisses me off. I can totally imagine this shit. I'm so glad I wasn't there. I would have put two notches in my gun belt.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:35:56 PM EDT
I hope he nails them! [url]http://www.acepilots.com/vietnam/cunningham.html[/url]
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:37:51 PM EDT
Lets get some mainstream sources for this story, I'll take it to some other forums.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:40:38 PM EDT
[url]http://www.ivpressonline.com/articles/2003/11/10/news/news13.txt[/url]
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:42:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2003 7:44:44 PM EDT by ar10er]
Scroll to the bottom. This is who published the article below. A publication of Bureau of Land Management in California [url]http://www.ivpressonline.com/articles/2003/11/10/news/news13.txt[/url]
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:46:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er: [url]http://www.ivpressonline.com/articles/2003/11/10/news/news13.txt[/url]
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I emailed that article to Bill Oreilly with the following note attached: "Just wondering if a white kid getting beat up by cops will get any national attention ??? Or does the kid have to be black????" We shall see.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:47:30 PM EDT
In my 30 years of runs ins with police I have never met a kinder more understanding police force than the BLM rangers. I've run into them at least four times that I can recall while I was out shooting on BLM property. I've had them come by a few times to visit my camp sites and chat. But then I've been sober and polite and have purchased use permits.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:48:41 PM EDT
OK, I put it up on Bimmerforums.com.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:49:59 PM EDT
[Thick German accent] Papers please. As long as your papers are in order, you will be fine. [Thick German accent]
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:51:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: In my 30 years of runs ins with police I have never met a kinder more understanding police force than the BLM rangers. I've run into them at least four times that I can recall while I was out shooting on BLM property. I've had them come by a few times to visit my camp sites and chat. But then I've been sober and polite and have purchased use permits.
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Hey, its hit or miss. I am quite sure that there are bad apples.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 8:00:31 PM EDT
Dont worry the kid got what he deserved. I dont think i want to live in the kind of world where park rangers cant kick as much ass as they want. The sad part is even if this family wins their civil suit i bet these scum bag homos will keep their jobs and get a nice 2 month paid vacation out of it. Like it was said above if the family was black these 2 guys would already be fired and the family would have moved into beverly hills 2 weeks ago.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 5:39:48 AM EDT
Not only was the kid white, but he was tearing up up the environment.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 8:48:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WX: Not only was the kid white, but he was tearing up up the environment.
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You do know that Glamis is just a giant sand dune don't you???
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 9:17:21 AM EDT
someone send this to the fox news network, this needs to get out
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 9:31:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WX: Not only was the kid white, but he was tearing up up the environment.
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I hope this was just a poor attempt at sarcasm, Glamis is a large recreational site suited for this very purpose.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 9:59:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AZMAN-1:
Originally Posted By WX: Not only was the kid white, but he was tearing up up the environment.
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I hope this was just a poor attempt at sarcasm, Glamis is a large recreational site suited for this very purpose.
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I think he's just showing us what the liberal media mindset will be. He has two strikes against him.. The kid was white so no one will care, and the "evil man" was destroying the environment by taking one of those "evil" gas guzzling trucks and defacing the earth... [:)]
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 10:06:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2003 10:22:10 AM EDT by Paul]
[removed felony threat of murder againt federal police - Paul] -HS
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 10:06:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2003 10:07:17 AM EDT by Red_Beard]
boo hoo should know better than to turn your back to a fed cop edit: IBTL
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 10:42:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HillBillySasquatch: [removed felony threat of murder againt federal police - Paul] -HS
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Sorry for the emotionally driven rant..... the Coalition must be having an affect on me... -HS
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 10:52:23 AM EDT
I once had a "green cop" pull his sidearm on me [i]on private land.[/i] I had been riding my dirtbike in a gravel pit and had stopped for a few minutes. Fucking idiot on a power trip. Garandman was there, he saw it all. If I wasn't a State Representative at the time, I would've been just another common man getting thrown to the dogs. It's going to get worse before it gets better, boys.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 11:20:16 AM EDT
Past time to feed the hogs boys......it's either that, or.... [size=3][red]Vote Tweedely-dee!![/red][/size=3] [snoopy]!! They'll preserve our liberty!!! [ROFL2]
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 11:27:14 AM EDT
Boy, i sure would have some problems with rangers like that. I certainly would be compelled to take action, and tell my elected officials, and other more tangible actions.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 11:28:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Past time to feed the hogs boys......it's either that, or.... [size=3][red]Vote Tweedely-dee!![/red][/size=3] [snoopy]!! They'll preserve our liberty!!! [ROFL2]
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lib86 you sound like a broken record.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 11:33:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Past time to feed the hogs boys...
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This quote gets bandied about alot here but as I read UC I took little delight in what was being done.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 11:34:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By danonly:
Originally Posted By liberty86: Past time to feed the hogs boys......it's either that, or.... [size=3][red]Vote Tweedely-dee!![/red][/size=3] [snoopy]!! They'll preserve our liberty!!! [ROFL2]
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lib86 you sound like a broken record.
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Oh, sorry....[:I] [size=3]Get out of The Cities!!![/size=3] [devil] [snoopy]!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 1:02:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2003 7:42:15 PM EDT by Paul]
[Removed another felony threat against a federal police officer - Paul]
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 4:37:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2003 7:43:27 PM EDT by Paul]
[Removed another felony threat of violence against a federal police officer - Paul]
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 5:53:07 PM EDT
It's SOP for FBI to investigate high profile uses of force by local LE. 99% of the time FBI sides with the cops. the cops welcome the FBI investigation becuase the "independant" investigation helps alot in any civil suit.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 5:56:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Strats: UNBELIEVABLE! In a wheelchair for what basically comes down to driving on dirt with no permit.
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No, he was stopped for driving on the dirt with no permit. He got his ass kicked for trying to go back into the vehicle when he was lawfully detained and had been told not to. When the cops tell you to keep you hands where they can see them, and not to reach inside a hidden or dark area of the vehicle, they mean it.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 6:46:20 PM EDT
Anyone ever been to Glamis on a weekend in winter? Madhouse. There is more to the story than the FAMILY will have you believe.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 6:50:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By Strats: UNBELIEVABLE! In a wheelchair for what basically comes down to driving on dirt with no permit.
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No, he was stopped for driving on the dirt with no permit. He got his ass kicked for trying to go back into the vehicle when he was lawfully detained and had been told not to. When the cops tell you to keep you hands where they can see them, and not to reach inside a hidden or dark area of the vehicle, they mean it.
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Choke holds are a serious no no. Deadly force, ya know. You may want to read up on that a little.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 6:50:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZ-K9: Anyone ever been to Glamis on a weekend in winter? Madhouse. There is more to the story than the FAMILY will have you believe.
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The place gets very busy, so what? The kid might have been acting like an asshole on his bike, so what? (we don't know that or not anyway) The kid didn't deserve to be sitting in a wheel chair, that's the bottom line. What about the INDEPENDENT statements from unrelated citizens?? I know you are a leo but you still have to see that their is a big problem here.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:02:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DigDug: [Choke holds are a serious no no. Deadly force, ya know. You may want to read up on that a little.
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Just had 8-Hours trtaining on it last week. In my agency Choke holds are above pepper spray, but below batons. No where near deadly force. of course every agency has it's own policy on them. LAPD bans all "choke" holds, including the caroided.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:08:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By DigDug: [Choke holds are a serious no no. Deadly force, ya know. You may want to read up on that a little.
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Just had 8-Hours trtaining on it last week. In my agency Choke holds are above pepper spray, but below batons. No where near deadly force. of course every agency has it's own policy on them. LAPD bans all "choke" holds, including the caroided.
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Deadly force is force likely to cause death or serious bodily harm. Enough people have been crippled and killed by choke holds to guarantee that your recent training was a waste of money, or that people who believe what was taught there are morons. There's nothing wrong with killing or crippling deserving miscreants, but anybody who can defend, however wanly, the crippling of a permit violator who made the horrific threat of turning to his truck after saying "My license is in the truck" needs some serious mirror/prayerbook/Bible/thinking time before going out to render the form of justice his masters are ordering.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:10:15 PM EDT
Here we go again. Remember, we're reading a [u]story[/u] from the media. Does the phrase "if it bleeds, it leads" ring a bell to anyone? Even the "independent witness" said:
Lee Mize said he could not make out the discussion between Brian Boyd and the two rangers, but he described it as being [red]"a heated discussion going back and forth."[/red] Lee Mize added it was when Brian Boyd turned around to go to his pickup truck that he witnessed a "tragic" incident.
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A "heated discussion". Hmm, when that happens in *my* life, that usually means everyone is pretty worked up. When it happens with a member of law enforcement doing their job, it begins to take on a whole different meaning, don't it. What do you think a cop should do if the guy they're talking to in a "heated discussion going back and forth" just turns around and walks away from you? What would [u]you[/u] do? Oh, I know- you'd use your magic powers of telepathy and your ability to see into the future and realize the guy meant no harm, that he wasn't trying to flee or get a weapon, and that he was just trying to help out by going to get his license. I mean, the officers should have just *known* that the guy was OK, and that the guy's dad was a Vietnam vet. You can tell that just by looking at people, you know. Sure.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:18:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By DigDug: [Choke holds are a serious no no. Deadly force, ya know. You may want to read up on that a little.
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Just had 8-Hours trtaining on it last week. In my agency Choke holds are above pepper spray, but below batons. No where near deadly force. of course every agency has it's own policy on them. LAPD bans all "choke" holds, including the caroided.
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1) Verbal commands 2) OC 3) Physical force....no chokes. 4) Expandable baton. 5) Bang. I learned many choke techniques when learning Judo. An 8 hour course does not an expert make. There is no reason to knock out a perp. You hold a blood choke just a little too long and bad things happen.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:26:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Here we go again. * * * A "heated discussion". Hmm, when that happens in *my* life, that usually means everyone is pretty worked up. When it happens with a member of law enforcement doing their job, it begins to take on a whole different meaning, don't it. What do you think a cop should do if the guy they're talking to in a "heated discussion going back and forth" just turns around and walks away from you? What would [u]you[/u] do? Oh, I know- you'd use your magic powers of telepathy and your ability to see into the future and realize the guy meant no harm, that he wasn't trying to flee
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Was he under arrest? If not, explain the threat or crime his departure would constitute.
or get a weapon, and that he was just trying to help out by going to get his license.
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Is ANYBODY, including the police, entitled to assume that everyone not looking at him is going for a weapon? Is everybody confronted by the police who recognizes the indisputable fact that (a) I do not have to talk to the police and (b) if they haven't arrested me I can go where I wish subject to violent interdiction? If so, I guess I should revise my personal threat matrix, cause I've always figured that people who walk away intend to, I dunno, WALK AWAY. Furthermore, your post suggests that everybody who encounters a police officer should assume that the officer is a dangerous violent psychopath who is not to be trusted in any way for any period of time, because (if you are parroting the officers' mindset) the officer can and will interpret every ambiguous act as a threat. Creatures who interpret every ambiguous (i.e. non-submissive) act as a threat are usually identified as "mad dogs." What do decent people do to mad dogs?
I mean, the officers should have just *known* that the guy was OK, and that the guy's dad was a Vietnam vet. You can tell that just by looking at people, you know. Sure.
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Well said. Officers should respond violently to every action they observe which cannot be clearly identified as benign. Those persons not proven to be harmless may be presumed to be threats. Can you post a copy of your country's constitution when you get a minute?
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:33:17 PM EDT
Choke holds are seen as a problem primarily because of the danger of anoxia/hypoxia. That causes injuries to the brain from lack of oxygen to the brain. This guy had no such problems. He had a contusion or other trauma to the spinal cord in the area of neck and possibly the lower back, apparently. Arguing about choke holds is a distraction from the real issue. It seems he to was subjected to a hard take down, and sustained injuries. All the ranting and pointless distinctions about the *race* of the kid is just silly. Facts matter, unless your mind is already made up.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:38:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DigDug: 1) Verbal commands 2) OC 3) Physical force....no chokes. 4) Expandable baton. 5) Bang.
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My agency: 1) Presence 2) Verabal Commands 3) OC (sray or pepperball) 4) Control Holds 5) "choke" Holds 6) Impact weapons (Fists, flashlight, ASP, Baton, PR24) 7) Less leathal (Super-sock, 40mm baton) 8) Deadly Force (9mm, 40SW, 45acp, 12Ga, .223, .308, Cown Vic)
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:42:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Choke holds are seen as a problem primarily because of the danger of anoxia/hypoxia. That causes injuries to the brain from lack of oxygen to the brain. This guy had no such problems. He had a contusion or other trauma to the spinal cord in the area of neck and possibly the lower back, apparently. Arguing about choke holds is a distraction from the real issue. It seems he to was subjected to a hard take down, and sustained injuries. All the ranting and pointless distinctions about the *race* of the kid is just silly. Facts matter, unless your mind is already made up.
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Indeed. I have no idea what the kid's race was, and hadn't given any thought to what it might be. A choke hold (as distinct from an LVR) is deadly force, and is a wholly irrational and criminal response to a suspect turning his back to get his identity papers, unless there is reason to believe that the suspect intends violence against the officer. It is [b]wrong[/b] for an officer to unleash violence against a person simply because the officer is not adequately assured that the suspect doesn't mean to hurt him.
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 7:43:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FLAL1A: Was he under arrest? If not, explain the threat or crime his departure would constitute.
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He was being lawfully detained for the permit violation. If it's a misdemeanor, then yes, he wass under arrest. If he wasnt following the BLM officers instructions then he was committing a misdemeanor violation of CPC 148(a)(1) Delay peace officer in performance of duties. his "departure" would clearly be a 148 violation.
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