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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/28/2005 10:52:03 AM EDT
BIA, DCI, FBI, Deputies Back Down to End Reservation Standoff IN Wyoming
MEAD GRUVER
Associated Press Writer


CHEYENNE, Wyo. (AP) -- A standoff on the Wind River Indian Reservation involving a man, a young girl and more than a dozen local, state and federal law enforcement officials ended when authorities decided to back off rather than endanger bystanders.

The standoff happened Monday afternoon and Steve Oldman, wanted for alleged distribution of methamphetamine, still hadn't been arrested Tuesday, according to Kurt Dobbs, director of the Wyoming Division of Criminal Investigation.

''We just have to decide how we're going to do that,'' Dobbs said.

He said Oldman was linked to a ring that dealt cocaine, methamphetamine, marijuana and prescription drugs until the arrests of 19 people, including a tribal judge, in May.

The standoff began around 3 p.m. Monday, when three U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs agents showed up at the gate to the home. One of the agents was with the Northwest Task Force, one of the DCI's multijurisdictional drug-enforcement teams.

Dobbs said Oldman took a young girl into a bedroom and told the agents there were guns in the room. He also threatened to shoot the agents, he said.

Meanwhile, several people came out of the house and blocked the gate, followed by others who showed up from elsewhere and blocked the driveway. In all, more than 20 people arrived, including about six children, according to Dobbs.

''It was a pretty chaotic scene,'' he said.

Other law-enforcement authorities arrived, including another BIA agent, six DCI agents, four FBI agents and Fremont County Sheriff's officials who staked out a hill overlooking the home.

Dobbs said authorities never saw Oldman with a gun, but did see him with the girl. ''Agents could see her in his arms through the window at several times throughout the conflict,'' he said.

He was unsure how old she was.

He said law enforcement agents agreed to pull back rather than risk violence.

''We had at least one child in the bedroom with Oldman who was standing off, and we had children in the area, and it just wasn't worth it at the time to let things be escalated any more,'' he said.

The standoff ended around 6:20 p.m.

Dobbs said obstruction and interference charges might be filed against some of the people who were in the crowd.

Wind River Indian Reservation Judge Lynda Munnell, 57, has been charged with threats against a federal officer, distribution of prescription pills and conspiracy. She was suspended in June without pay.

Munnell was allegedly involved in a drug ring that brought methamphetamine, cocaine and marijuana in from Mexico.
The indictment accused Mark Rosalez, 36, of West Valley, Utah, of bringing the drugs to Wyoming; everyone else who was indicted lived on or near the reservation.

The group also was accused of selling prescription drugs, some of which were thought to have come from the reservation's Indian Health Service clinic.


Nice! "native" Americans bringing in meth from Mexico. I guess the fire water just doesnt do it anymore.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 10:58:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 10:59:48 AM EDT
Simple. No dogs on the reservation.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:02:09 AM EDT
I respect Indian culture but, in practice, the whole lot of them are lunatics. They have been culturally isolated, as per their demand, and what do we have? Drugs, alcohol, woman-beating, and violence rates that are WAY above the general population.


I do, however, enjoy their casinos.


- BG
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:02:28 AM EDT
Wow. The Feds backed down, rather than burn and bulldoze?

Must be getting ready to call in arty.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:03:46 AM EDT
Sounds like a half way, maybe we can handle this differently type situation. While I agree, drug use and distribution should be met with exacting justice as soon as possible. Is it worth the possible death of a child, who may have done nothing wrong, other being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Pull back and wait to pick him up at the casino hty.gif

Dave
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:04:23 AM EDT
There is porn to be stamped out!
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:08:48 AM EDT
A seemingly odd change of strategy. But what would I know?

Makes me wonder if they'll leave behind a well concealed marksman or two.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:10:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxim_Mag:
Sounds like a half way, maybe we can handle this differently type situation. While I agree, drug use and distribution should be met with exacting justice as soon as possible. Is it worth the possible death of a child, who may have done nothing wrong, other being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Pull back and wait to pick him up at the casino

Dave



Some would say the police have further endangered the child, who was in fact a hostage, by leaving her with her drug abusing attacker.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:14:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Maxim_Mag:
Sounds like a half way, maybe we can handle this differently type situation. While I agree, drug use and distribution should be met with exacting justice as soon as possible. Is it worth the possible death of a child, who may have done nothing wrong, other being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Pull back and wait to pick him up at the casino hty.gif

Dave



Some would say the police have further endangered the child, who was in fact a hostage, by leaving her with her drug abusing attacker.



The child inside the home, you mean. Yes she would be in danger. But with the lack of further information in your post, how do we the readers know whether or not she was let go prior to their leaving. I find it hard to believe that any self respecting LEO, federal, local or otherwise would leave with a little girl still in the arms of a mad man. hinking.gif
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:18:05 AM EDT
I can see where this could be either a good idea or a bad idea. I think most of us can agree that Waco was not a properly handled seige. Hopefully, the Feds are trying to avoid such a fiasco.

The only thing worse than leaving a child in the hands of a mad man is burning the house down with her inside it.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:20:16 AM EDT
It because Jorge Boosh had declared mariwanna to be the biggest evil facing amerika youts.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:38:19 AM EDT
Once again, we already have a solution handy!
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:38:57 AM EDT
I hate being deprived of a good violent ending, preferably by a head shot from a .30 caliber rifle. Maybe next time
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:48:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:54:37 AM EDT
The FBI learned their PR lessons with American Indians from their battles with the AIM.

The last thing they want to do is create another Leonard Peltier for another 20 years woth of hippy battle cry.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 11:58:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
It because Jorge Boosh had declared mariwanna to be the biggest evil facing amerika youts.





"Zhorzh Boosh- ees oll hees folt! He mek dem smok de mariwanna."



Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:33:36 PM EDT
I'm guessing lon horouchi wasn't on this stake out.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:38:05 PM EDT
They should turn this case over to Janet and the ATF
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:39:07 PM EDT
This had the potential to get ugly fast so the cops pulled back.

I think they did the right thing.

Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:43:19 PM EDT
If the suspects were white, the FBI would have burned the building down and shot the people as they fled the fire.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:53:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 12:55:27 PM EDT by AWACER]
My co-worker worked on a reservation PD for a few years and he said that venue, jurisdiction, etc. was a nightmare. There are other ways to get the criminals; they will go down sooner or later.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:54:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fourays2:
I'm guessing lon horouchi wasn't on this stake out.



Course not - he only kills innocent people.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:57:39 PM EDT
Quick, throw him a bible so the FBI can take him out!
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 12:58:56 PM EDT
It was a risky decision, no matter what course they took.
The ones that will praise or damn them are ususally not the ones with the responsibility for the decision and its consequences. That sounds obvious, but we forget it. I just hope it turns out well and they don't later find out that he eliminated the witness(es) after they "left".

Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:03:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
It because Jorge Boosh had declared mariwanna to be the biggest evil facing amerika youts.



Don't let me stand in the way of your Bush Bash Fest, but RIF:

The standoff happened Monday afternoon and Steve Oldman, wanted for alleged distribution of methamphetamine <snip>


In case you didn't know, "mariwanna" and methamphetamine are not the same thing--by a long shot.



Errr... thanks for the clarification......

That was the point.

Boosh IGNORES meth production... because he's of the opinion that poetry herb is a bigger danger.
- rather an odd position for an ex coke head.


Sort of like the way John Asshat decided that busting people for selling pipes online was a bigger priority then say... MUSLIM TERRORISTS!!!!!!

I sleep a lot better at night, knowing that 63 year old Tommy Chiong is in jail. <rolls eyes in disgust>
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:18:52 PM EDT
Indians get away with tons of stuff that would get whites arrested, shot or torched.

For example, here is an article on the Little Big War, where a band of armed Sioux have seized 134,000 acres of Badlands National Park. The feds are doing nothing about it.

What would happen if a buch of arfrommers siezed over 200 square miles of federal property? I think some and lots of .
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:30:25 PM EDT
thats the perfect solution. just leave. just like departments are getting rid of their pursuits. that'll deter crime. just ignore em.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:40:56 PM EDT
Kurt Dobbs is a stand up guy, and a great cop. He is from Powell, where I live and teach.

He has done a good job of going after the meth rings around here. They have been so successful that the office here in Powell, was torched a few weeks back, by people connected to the meth ring.

He was around my dog several times and never shot her. Seriously, he's a good guy.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:45:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 1:57:45 PM EDT by AKSU-74]

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
I respect Indian culture but, in practice, the whole lot of them are lunatics. They have been culturally isolated, as per their demand, and what do we have? Drugs, alcohol, woman-beating, and violence rates that are WAY above the general population.


I do, however, enjoy their casinos.


- BG



So do you always use such a broad brush to paint your pictures, or are you just another "expert" on indigenous culture. I would'nt try to tell me what it is that you think you know, by formal education I'm a historian, sociologist and anthropologist. I'm also an F.B.I. (Full Blooded Indigenous), if you have a problem with that then by all means feel free to go back to where your degenerate ancestors came from?

I know your probably going to come back with the bullshit that mommy and daddy told you about red people when you were young and the start spouting off with theories that were tossed out fifteen years ago etc. However I'll remind that if it were not for you illegal aliens the issues that indigenous peoples go through today would probably not exist.

Also I find it to real cute that you can say you have respect for the indigenous cultures then turn around and say something to insult all those you say you respect. You know in order to make the claim that we are all lunatics would'nt you have to know all indigenous peoples on the continent? I'm pretty sure I have'nt met you, and if truth be told I would'nt want to.

There is good and bad in every culture and ones ethnicity or geographical locale dose not make one more or less inclined to be good or bad. Oh one last thing, just out of morbid curiosity you don't go by "billbuckhead" over at the DU forums do you?

Now on to green-grizzly,
It's Lakota not Sioux get it right, Sioux in a derogatory word that can be equated to using the "N" word. Also that land as well as the Black hills and a whole huge chunk of the Northern plains belongs to us and breaking treaties and slaughtering people indiscriminately and stealing dose not make it yours.


Edited for grammar: Hard to type while laughing at the ignorance of others.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:52:11 PM EDT
They just don't play cowboys and indians like they used to. John Wayne would roll over in his grave....
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:59:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKSU-74:

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
I respect Indian culture but, in practice, the whole lot of them are lunatics. They have been culturally isolated, as per their demand, and what do we have? Drugs, alcohol, woman-beating, and violence rates that are WAY above the general population.


I do, however, enjoy their casinos.


- BG



So do you always use such a broad brush to paint your pictures, or are you just another "expert" on indigenous culture. I would'nt try to tell me what it is that you think you know, by formal education I'm a historian, sociologist and anthropologist. I'm also an F.B.I. (Full Blooded Indigenous), if you have a problem with that then by all means feel free to go back to where your degenerate ancestors came from?

I know your probably going to come back with the bullshit that mommy and daddy told you about red people when you were young and the start spouting off with theories that were tossed out fifteen years ago etc. However I'll remind that if it were not for you illegal aliens the issues that indigenous peoples go through today would probably not exist.

Also I find it to real cute that you can say you have respect for the indigenous cultures then turn around and say something to insult all those you say you respect. You know in order to make the claim that we are all lunatics would'nt you have to know all indigenous peoples on the continent? I'm pretty sure I have'nt met you, and if truth be told I would'nt want to.

There is good and bad in every culture and ones ethnicity or geographical locale dose not make one more or less inclined to be good or bad. Oh one last thing, just out of morbid curiosity you don't go by "billbuckhead" over at the DU forums do you?

Now on to green-grizzly,
It's Lakota not Sioux get it right, Sioux in a derogatory word that can be equated to using the "N" word. Also that land as well as the Black hills and a whole huge chunk of the Northern plains belongs to us and breaking treaties and slaughtering people indiscriminately and stealing dose not make it yours.


Edited for grammar: Hard to type while laughing at the ignorance of others.



how can they be indiginous, if they migrated here from somewhere else???

and then there's that whole Clovis point issue........ The spear points here, don't match the ones in the lands the 'Indians' supposedly came from.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:46:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:56:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 2:57:19 PM EDT by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some morons would say the police have further endangered the child, who was in fact a hostage, by leaving her with her drug abusing attacker.



How could the danger be enhanced by leaving the girl in the condition and place where she was found? [Hint: if you're using "enhance" the way English speakers use it, it's not possible. By definition, "like it was when you found it" does not mean "enhanced."]

What is the relationship between the suspect and the girl that makes it possible to identify her as a "hostage?" If he is entitled to custody of the child, she is certainly not made a hostage simply because a bunch of cops are outside the property. Given the feds' track record in these situations, it seems the gravest danger came from holding the child where they could see her through the window.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 3:34:08 PM EDT
man, the fbi coud have avoided the whole thing by using a condom.lol.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 3:34:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKSU-74:
So do you always use such a broad brush to paint your pictures, or are you just another "expert" on indigenous culture. I would'nt try to tell me what it is that you think you know, by formal education I'm a historian, sociologist and anthropologist. I'm also an F.B.I. (Full Blooded Indigenous), if you have a problem with that then by all means feel free to go back to where your degenerate ancestors came from?

I know your probably going to come back with the bullshit that mommy and daddy told you about red people when you were young and the start spouting off with theories that were tossed out fifteen years ago etc. However I'll remind that if it were not for you illegal aliens the issues that indigenous peoples go through today would probably not exist.

Also I find it to real cute that you can say you have respect for the indigenous cultures then turn around and say something to insult all those you say you respect. You know in order to make the claim that we are all lunatics would'nt you have to know all indigenous peoples on the continent? I'm pretty sure I have'nt met you, and if truth be told I would'nt want to.

There is good and bad in every culture and ones ethnicity or geographical locale dose not make one more or less inclined to be good or bad. Oh one last thing, just out of morbid curiosity you don't go by "billbuckhead" over at the DU forums do you?

Now on to green-grizzly,
It's Lakota not Sioux get it right, Sioux in a derogatory word that can be equated to using the "N" word. Also that land as well as the Black hills and a whole huge chunk of the Northern plains belongs to us and breaking treaties and slaughtering people indiscriminately and stealing dose not make it yours.


Edited for grammar: Hard to type while laughing at the ignorance of others.





Bigotry!
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 3:39:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By green-grizzly:
Indians get away with tons of stuff that would get whites arrested, shot or torched.

For example, here is an article on the Little Big War, where a band of armed Sioux have seized 134,000 acres of Badlands National Park. The feds are doing nothing about it.

What would happen if a buch of arfrommers siezed over 200 square miles of federal property? I think some and lots of .



Yeah, and then the cops might show up.


Link Posted: 9/28/2005 4:10:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 4:13:05 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some morons would say the police have further endangered the child, who was in fact a hostage, by leaving her with her drug abusing attacker.



How could the danger be enhanced by leaving the girl in the condition and place where she was found?



I never used the word enhanced. I said further, as in continuing, however she was not a hostage until the police arrived and the suspect grabbed the girl and barracade himself in a room with guns.

Luis Pena had lawfull custody of his child too. But she became a hostage when her dad started using her as a human shield.
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