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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/25/2001 11:28:31 AM EDT
i am thinking of purchasing a FAL. would appreciate some info on what to look for and what to stay away from. where is the best place to buy one? [beer]
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 12:01:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2001 11:54:38 AM EDT by bowhuntr]
Just go on over to the FAL Files and read, read, read before you even consider a purchase. My advice is(depending on what you can afford) http://www.l1a1.com/ 1)DSA 2) Imbel (IAI M 444) 3)Build one using either a DSA or Imbel receiver
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 12:04:10 PM EDT
what about the springfield sar 4800?
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 12:45:53 PM EDT
The SAR-4800's are nice guns. However, by the time you add enough US parts to the gun to add a pistol grip instead of a thumbhole, you are spending more money than you have to. The SAR-48's are pre-bans, and are generally pretty reasonable as such (about $1200 if you look hard with cash in hand). The few SAR-4800's in .223 are interesting guns--they take standard AR mags, so you can basically put a USGI mag in them and a set of US made stocks (foregrip, pistolgrip, buttstock) and (you may--I'm not sure of the exact count) a US made gas piston and be legal. And, they are nice guns. However, they go for as much as a pre-ban SAR-48 in .308. What to look for really depends on how much money you have to spend. What were you looking to spend? If it's $3000, I'd suggest a real Belgian 50.63. If it's $500 then the IMBEL receiver based STG-58 parts guns from Century, and get it re-built correctly later. If it's $1000 you have a bunch more options in post ban guns.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 12:54:36 PM EDT
Don't laugh but those Century guns with the Imbel receiver and the STG parts can be very nice weapons.Just change to a one piece gas piston and you are set.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 1:35:47 PM EDT
what options are avail. for the $1000 range?
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 2:09:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 2:23:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 2:31:51 PM EDT
just what raf said for that kind of money get the dsa. the m444 from iai I had was not a good one but thats the exception from what I have herd. DO NOT BUY A CENTURY anything fal unless you know what you are looking at. and that means you are going to have to study that rifle for awhile before you buy. the early one's on argie recievers were very nice rifles but they have been horror stories alot in the past 5 years or so. I have seen some pretty bad one's from them. also now that the kits have been out for quite awhile you have to be even more carefull as over half of the fal's I see for sale at shows are illegal. unless they are new in the box. save your time and agrivation and get the dsa and if you don't want the cheapy they do have other models. do try the fal files forum as they aare some good folks over their that will help.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 2:46:06 PM EDT
My experience is my own STG parts gun with an Imbel receiver, assembled by a gunsmith. I think that the DSA is the way to go if you do not want to dink around with a kit. If you choose the kit gun route, I do believe the Australian inch guns are very good. The higher price magazines are the only weak point. U.S. parts for inch guns are becoming availiable. That's the big rip off. I discarded perfectly good Austrian/Belgian parts for o.k. U.S. parts. What a country! At least we are allowed to own the damn thing. None of these are 'collector grade' guns, as they all have aftermarket parts. To buy a pre-ban FN would cost a lot of money. A friend of mine has a selective fire G1 - lots of fun in full auto. John
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 2:47:21 PM EDT
Previous posts notwithsstanding, DO NOT BUY anything from Century Arms or Hesse. Beware Century Arms built many guns on Imbel receivers. The basic problem is this... 1. They usually use substandard receivers(Imbel is the exception). 2. They used very retired 20 year old G1 part kits. 3. They use Federal, Hesse or Century semi auto internals. All are very substandard and usually out of spec. 4. They are apparently assembled by trained monkeys in a bicycle shop. 5. They are then finished, I mean spray painted with the same care with which they were assembled. 6. They will probably blow up one day and kill you. Think about the .308 round for a few seconds. Now the IAI M-444 Imbel gun and Entreprise Arms Stg58 are both wonderful FAL rifles. But given the fact that you can get a DSA Stg58 for about $200.00 more, you would be wel advised to do so. DSA are simply the best. They will be warrantied for life and you will never regret your purchase.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 2:54:59 PM EDT
Check out Mark Graham's FAL's at www.arizonaresponsesystems.com. His rifles are top-notch.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 3:00:43 PM EDT
where does one find a DSA?
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 3:08:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shooter65: where does one find a DSA?
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While I can't get you one at dealer price, sorry, I'd be more than happy to help you. Feel free to email me at [url]covertop@hotmail.com[/url]
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 3:46:17 PM EDT
what about a century arms that has been customized by arizona response systems?
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 3:48:32 PM EDT
If Mark Graham at ARS has had his hands on it, you can pretty much bet it has been thoroughly un-fucked and is now a good rifle. However, I'd probably spend a little extra and buy one of his rifles built on a DSA receiver. His 18" carbines are very nice.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 3:50:58 PM EDT
sounds like DSA is the way to go for a sure bet. is there much difference between the 58 and 58a?
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 3:53:49 PM EDT
Go to [url]www.fnfal.com[/url] or [url]www.arizonaresponsesystems.com[/url] Mark is very helpful for newbie FALers.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 3:58:19 PM EDT
thank you gentleman, you have been most helpful. [beer]
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 4:19:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AFARR: . . What to look for really depends on how much money you have to spend. What were you looking to spend? If it's $3000, I'd suggest a real Belgian 50.63. If it's $500 then the IMBEL receiver based STG-58 parts guns from Century, and get it re-built correctly later. If it's $1000 you have a bunch more options in post ban guns.
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$3,000 for real FN FAL, man that is real steep. How about an Argentine FAL-clone made by a real FN FAL contractor. I believe the SAR48/SAR4800 with the Imbel reciever was a reversed engineered product. I have a SAR48, works real good. Accepts all metric accessories & parts. The DSA STG58 got a pretty favorable review from NRA's American Rifleman. Check out DSA's website at [url]www.dsarms.com[/url]
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 4:35:15 PM EDT
$3k is steep, but that is for the Para folding stock carbine model. The folding stock standard barrel (50.64) is $2500, the "standard" rifle (50.00) is $2k (about the same as an HK 91). The SAR's are great guns. As SteyrAUG said, the Centuries have problems, but if you only have $500 to spend, it is a start--you MUST get the IMBEL receiver gun though. Derek Huffman (Arizona Expert Arms--Bratty's husband) was offering about a $225 re-do on the Centuries where he fixed what was wrong and re-parked them. That solved most of the problems, and as long as you got a decent kit (not a worn barrel) on an IMBEL, you have a decent base. The DSA "kit" guns are built the same way, with a used parts kit on new receiver and US parts. However, they do it right, the DSA receiver is at least the equal of the IMBEL, the parts kits they got were nearly new, and the US parts are high quality, and it is assembled and refinished by competent craftsmen. It is what the Century should be. Figure on $1000 on one of those for a good FAL. Alternately, you could find a used DSA SA-58 (factory gun, not their Stg-58A kit gun) for about that much in the standard configuration. If you do wind up short on Cash, and need to get the Century, it is definitely worth the rebuild by ARS or AZEX arms--it makes it almost as good as the DSA kit gun. AFARR
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 6:15:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky315: If Mark Graham at ARS has had his hands on it, you can pretty much bet it has been thoroughly un-fucked and is now a good rifle. However, I'd probably spend a little extra and buy one of his rifles built on a DSA receiver. His 18" carbines are very nice.
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To correct a Century gun, it would basically HAVE to be a Imbel receiver because there is NO correcting a Century receiver.Then you would have to replace ALL of the crap parts Century uses. Might as well just get a correct gun to begin with. Also the Lifetime Warranty on DSA guns is a deal closer. Something you just don't get on a rifle reworked by a smith. Personally, this is why I buy reputable name brand guns new in box. There is a lot to be said for firearm manufacturers that warranty their product for life.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 6:18:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AFARR: The DSA "kit" guns are built the same way, with a used parts kit on new receiver and US parts. However, they do it right, the DSA receiver is at least the equal of the IMBEL, the parts kits they got were nearly new, and the US parts are high quality, and it is assembled and refinished by competent craftsmen. It is what the Century should be. Figure on $1000 on one of those for a good FAL. AFARR
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Actually the DSA receiver is superior to the Belgian FN or the Imbel. The Steyr kits are in NEW condition. Another critical difference is DSA manufactures their own semi auto fire control parts. These are superior to any other US made parts.
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 4:55:05 PM EDT
[beer]
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 5:15:08 PM EDT
Everyone has about offered the best advice. I'm also a DS Arms fan and S. AUG is correct regarding the DSA receivers - much closer to spec than the originals. Since there is no cost difference get a DSA Type II receiver. DSA is the best $1000 bet. The best true FAL is the FN 50.00 - although I'm a large ArmaLite fan the 50.00 is arguably the best battle rifle ever made. With some shopping you can find one around $2000. [soapbox]
Link Posted: 12/5/2001 10:00:08 PM EDT
I've had two of the Argentine FALs, and I have no complaints on either. You get a FAL equal in quality to the Belgian guns for a little less money. I picked up the second one a few months back for 1400 bucks as new. I also agree that Century guns are hit and miss - one shoots great and the next won't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside. I wouldn't go any cheaper than the DSA guns.
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 5:15:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shooter65: is there much difference between the 58 and 58a?
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$500. [:D] The SA58s are all-new, US made parts. STG58As are mostly-new. Some US parts, some surplus Steyr parts. The Austrian parts are in good condition, though. The receiver will be brand new. The barrel may be a new Badger barrel or it may be a surplussed Austrian barrel. IME, the extra $500 isn't getting you $500 more rifle. The extra cash is better spent on magazines, ammo... maybe a scope mount and optics. Don't go the Century route unless you can verify the IMBEL receiver and plan on ordering a new gas piston. If it's a Federal or CAI receiver, don't bite. If it's a Hesse receiver, you should be asking the gun shop to pay [b]you[/b] to take the rifle. (those people can screw up an AK...)
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