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Posted: 8/28/2018 12:04:58 PM EST
F-35A Strafe Runs


25x137mm Nammo PGU-47/U Apex 223g dual-purpose aircraft shredder/armor penetrator.

Hill AFB has been doing live gunnery training with the F-35A and GAU-22/A 25mm rotary cannon, which has a reverse clearing system, so upon completion of a burst, any unfired 25mm cartridges are returned to the feeding system, so no live rounds are unusable.

Since the F-35 has programmable architecture, the bursts can be set by the pilot or a synthetic auto-gun mode for both Air-to-Air and A2G.

Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:06:43 PM EST
F-35 Lightning Jet 25mm Cannon Firing! GAU-22 Equalizer
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:08:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:11:21 PM EST
how many rounds carried internally?
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:14:07 PM EST
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Quoted:
how many rounds carried internally?
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87

Duh.

Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:15:58 PM EST
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Quoted:
how many rounds carried internally?
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180ish rounds
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:16:51 PM EST
I'm pretty sure we did this one last week.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:17:20 PM EST
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Quoted:
how many rounds carried internally?
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F-35A, 25mm GAU-22/A with 180 rounds.
3300 RPM / 55 RPS rate of fire, 223 gram projectile weight for 12.3 kg/s throw weight, 3.27 seconds firing time of ammunition and 40.1 kg of total projectile weight.

F/A-18E/F, 20mm M61A1 with 412 rounds.
6000 RPM / 100 RPS rate of fire, 102 gram projectile weight for 10.2 kg/s throw weight, 4.12 seconds firing time of ammunition and 42.0 kg total projectile weight.

Typhoon, 27mm BK 27 with 150 rounds.
1800 RPM / 30 RPS rate of fire, 260 gram projectile weight for 7.8 kg/s throw weight, 5.00 seconds firing time of ammunition and 39.0 kg total projectile weight.

Gripen, 27mm BK 27 with 120 rounds.
1800 RPM / 30 RPS rate of fire, 260 gram projectile weight for 7.8 kg/s throw weight, 4.00 seconds firing time of ammunition and 31.2 kg total projectile weight.

Rafale, 30mm GIAT 30 with 125 rounds.
2500 RPM / 42 RPS rate of fire, 275 gram projectile weight for 11.6 kg/s throw weight, 2.98 seconds firing time of ammunition and 34.4 kg total projectile weight.

Su-35, 30mm GSh-30-1 with 150 rounds.
1800 RPM / 30 RPS rate of fire, 390 gram projectile weight for 11.7 kg/s throw weight, 5.00 seconds firing time of ammunition and 58.5 kg total projectile weight.

The biggest difference with the F-35A and GAU-22/A is that it has more programmable bursts.  For A2A, you could get 9 x 20rd bursts if you wanted, or 3 x 60rd bursts, etc.

One of the assumptions most outside observers have made is that the F-35 will rely on missiles for its first kills in A2A, when the gun is more of an option in the F-35 than any 4th Gen jet as a first kill system when approaching VLO.  Threat air is flying along, all of a sudden they get shredded by 25mm dual-purpose projectiles and don't know why.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:19:31 PM EST
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Quoted:
I'm pretty sure we did this one last week.
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I know we recently did an external gun thread...
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:20:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:20:59 PM EST
Is the gun computer controlled?   Does the computer make adjustments to the flight path in order to ensure hits?   How do these modern systems work?
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:22:52 PM EST
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Quoted:

I know we recently did an external gun thread...
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Dupe.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:23:58 PM EST
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Dupe.
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Quoted:

I know we recently did an external gun thread...
Dupe.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:24:47 PM EST
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Quoted:
I'm pretty sure we did this one last week.
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Yes there was lol
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:29:21 PM EST
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Is the gun computer controlled?   Does the computer make adjustments to the flight path in order to ensure hits?   How do these modern systems work?
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It's open architecture programmable, so as the fleet gains additional experience to all of the years of RDT&E and ODT&E, they can simply update and improve it for higher hit probability with fleet data.

Everything in the F-35 is quad-redundant, super computer controlled.

All the sensors and systems are fused through the central brain, working together.  There are no radios, no IFF (ID Friend or Foe), no ILS (Instrumented Landing System), no RWR (Radar Warning Receiver) system boxes, but synthetic programmable options across the board for anything you want to do.

You want to send encrypted burst, multi-spectral, high saturation imagery to every other F-35 in the MADL, you can do it any number of ways.

You are no longer limited to a black box with specific antennae and limited frequency range.  You can create a waveform to your desire, and send it across a multitude of antennae.

Same thing for gunnery, IFF, missile shots, aerial refueling, navigation, landing, take-off, supersonic maneuvering for placement after missile launch, Electronic Warfare (acting like an EF-111 or EA-18), and gunnery.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:32:33 PM EST
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Quoted:
180ish rounds
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Quoted:
Quoted:
how many rounds carried internally?
180ish rounds
So one burst and its empty, that is pathetic.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:33:34 PM EST
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Quoted:
So one burst and its empty, that is pathetic.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
how many rounds carried internally?
180ish rounds
So one burst and its empty, that is pathetic.


See the chart above. 180 rounds is very much in line with what is in modern fighters. The internal gun is a pocket knife for if shit's gone real wrong. If you find yourself using it, you've fucked up.

For CAS and "gun runs" they can use external pods.

Otherwise they are using missiles... and likely not even their own missiles.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:37:07 PM EST
@whiskersthecat

It's a dupe thread... but figure you'd like it anyway.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:43:05 PM EST
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Quoted:

It's open architecture programmable, so as the fleet gains additional experience to all of the years of RDT&E and ODT&E, they can simply update and improve it for higher hit probability with fleet data.

Everything in the F-35 is quad-redundant, super computer controlled.

All the sensors and systems are fused through the central brain, working together.  There are no radios, no IFF (ID Friend or Foe), no ILS (Instrumented Landing System), no RWR (Radar Warning Receiver) system boxes, but synthetic programmable options across the board for anything you want to do.

You want to send encrypted burst, multi-spectral, high saturation imagery to every other F-35 in the MADL, you can do it any number of ways.

You are no longer limited to a black box with specific antennae and limited frequency range.  You can create a waveform to your desire, and send it across a multitude of antennae.

Same thing for gunnery, IFF, missile shots, aerial refueling, navigation, landing, take-off, supersonic maneuvering for placement after missile launch, Electronic Warfare (acting like an EF-111 or EA-18), and gunnery.
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Incredible. I sincerely hope all this plumbing works and it doesn't shit the very expensive bed- but so far so good.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:44:03 PM EST
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Quoted:



See the chart above. 180 rounds is very much in line with what is in modern fighters. The internal gun is a pocket knife for if shit's gone real wrong. If you find yourself using it, you've fucked up.

For CAS and "gun runs" they can use external pods.

Otherwise they are using missiles... and likely not even their own missiles.
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Whose missiles they using?
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:46:01 PM EST
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Quoted:
@whiskersthecat

It's a dupe thread... but figure you'd like it anyway.
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It's not a dupe for me!

This is a fucking awesome thread.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:46:22 PM EST
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Quoted:
Whose missiles they using?
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Quoted:



See the chart above. 180 rounds is very much in line with what is in modern fighters. The internal gun is a pocket knife for if shit's gone real wrong. If you find yourself using it, you've fucked up.

For CAS and "gun runs" they can use external pods.

Otherwise they are using missiles... and likely not even their own missiles.
Whose missiles they using?
If everything works they way it should... ground-based launchers, maybe an SM launch from a nearby ship, from a plane further back so as to not give away their position, from a tethered drone etc.

Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:46:36 PM EST
150 rounds?

That seems so minuscule and short lived
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:46:41 PM EST
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So one burst and its empty, that is pathetic.
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It sends about the same weight of projectile down range as the 20mm on a FA-18, but does it way faster which is a good thing. The 25mm ammo is a hell of a lot more potent then 20mm and takes up less space overall. As air to air weapon it's probably a much better option; more and larger rounds on target in the short opportunities available.

For shooting shit on the ground it's probably just as useless as the 20mm.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:49:19 PM EST
It looks like there's two brrrt locations? Top, were wing meets body, and the belly?
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:49:43 PM EST
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Quoted:

Whose missiles they using?
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other planes, ships, ground based, plenty of options.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:50:16 PM EST
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Quoted:
other planes, ships, ground based, plenty of options.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Whose missiles they using?
other planes, ships, ground based, plenty of options.
Just made this.

Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:50:52 PM EST
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Quoted:
It looks like there's two brrrt locations? Top, were wing meets body, and the belly?
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The A model has an internal gun.

The B and C can mount the same gun in a pod on the center line. Comes with a little more ammo, to boot.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:51:20 PM EST
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Quoted:
It looks like there's two brrrt locations? Top, were wing meets body, and the belly?
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Yup, if it's carrying the pod.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 12:58:54 PM EST
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Quoted:

Just made this.

https://i.imgflip.com/2gqvqd.jpg
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Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:00:28 PM EST
Quoted:

The A model has an internal gun.

The B and C can mount the same gun in a pod on the center line. Comes with a little more ammo, to boot.
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Quoted:

Yup, if it's carrying the pod.
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That's fucking awesome.

Man, I want to watch footage of these things pushing some other country's shit in.

Why can't other Air Forces attempt to mess with us? F22s and F35s are getting blue balls.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:01:30 PM EST
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Quoted:
That's fucking awesome.

Man, I want to watch footage of these things pushing some other country's shit in.

Why can't other Air Forces attempt to mess with us? F22s and F35s are getting blue balls.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

The A model has an internal gun.

The B and C can mount the same gun in a pod on the center line. Comes with a little more ammo, to boot.
Quoted:

Yup, if it's carrying the pod.
That's fucking awesome.

Man, I want to watch footage of these things pushing some other country's shit in.

Why can't other Air Forces attempt to mess with us? F22s and F35s are getting blue balls.
The Israelis are having some fun with theirs.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:08:25 PM EST
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Quoted:
The Israelis are having some fun with theirs.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

The A model has an internal gun.

The B and C can mount the same gun in a pod on the center line. Comes with a little more ammo, to boot.
Quoted:

Yup, if it's carrying the pod.
That's fucking awesome.

Man, I want to watch footage of these things pushing some other country's shit in.

Why can't other Air Forces attempt to mess with us? F22s and F35s are getting blue balls.
The Israelis are having some fun with theirs.


.

Backstory
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:20:54 PM EST
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

The A model has an internal gun.

The B and C can mount the same gun in a pod on the center line. Comes with a little more ammo, to boot.
Quoted:

Yup, if it's carrying the pod.
That's fucking awesome.

Man, I want to watch footage of these things pushing some other country's shit in.

Why can't other Air Forces attempt to mess with us? F22s and F35s are getting blue balls.
The Israelis are having some fun with theirs.
https://i.imgflip.com/2gqx93.jpg

.

Backstory
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:24:00 PM EST
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Quoted:
150 rounds?

That seems so minuscule and short lived
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It might be fun to sneak up on enemy fighters and drill them from close range with an 8 round burst a few times.

They may not need all that many.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:27:19 PM EST
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Quoted:
It's not a dupe for me!

This is a fucking awesome thread.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
@whiskersthecat

It's a dupe thread... but figure you'd like it anyway.
It's not a dupe for me!

This is a fucking awesome thread.


Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:28:02 PM EST
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Quoted:
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

The A model has an internal gun.

The B and C can mount the same gun in a pod on the center line. Comes with a little more ammo, to boot.
Quoted:

Yup, if it's carrying the pod.
That's fucking awesome.

Man, I want to watch footage of these things pushing some other country's shit in.

Why can't other Air Forces attempt to mess with us? F22s and F35s are getting blue balls.
The Israelis are having some fun with theirs.
https://i.imgflip.com/2gqx93.jpg

.

Backstory
Funny, AND awesome.

“We are flying the F-35 all over the Middle East and have already attacked twice on two different fronts,” the Maj Gen told 20 assorted commanders of foreign air forces at the meeting."
Oh, and it wasn't detected.

Of course, you say. It better not be! It's a brand new stealth jet!

Here's the real lulz

According to Gen Tannous, Maj Gen Norkin has “taken heat for revealing the F-35 in such a clear photo, showing four radars, with two reflectors on each side” – meaning it was not flying in stealth mode.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:29:39 PM EST
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
@whiskersthecat

It's a dupe thread... but figure you'd like it anyway.
It's not a dupe for me!

This is a fucking awesome thread.
https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ohzdIuqJoo8QdKlnW/giphy.gif



GD will come around on the F35 once we start hearing more of its awesome exploits.

Personally, I'd love a stealth approach with a brrrrrrt pass.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:30:54 PM EST
So I assume they figured out the flight model issue when firing.

For those who don't know, when the A model would fire, the little stealth flap opened up and caused a quick yaw due to it being mounted on the "shoulder," causing rounds to impact to the left of where it was aimed.

Basically, the plane had a flinch.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:35:15 PM EST
Good Jesse James!
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:38:16 PM EST
Here is the thread where linking the F35 with the Aegis system is discussed.  It’s like mind blowing, dude.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/F-35-is-doing-things-legacy-fighter-airplanes-could-have-never-even-thought-about-/5-2101034/
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:39:32 PM EST
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Quoted:


See the chart above. 180 rounds is very much in line with what is in modern fighters. The internal gun is a pocket knife for if shit's gone real wrong. If you find yourself using it, you've fucked up.

For CAS and "gun runs" they can use external pods.

Otherwise they are using missiles... and likely not even their own missiles.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
how many rounds carried internally?
180ish rounds
So one burst and its empty, that is pathetic.


See the chart above. 180 rounds is very much in line with what is in modern fighters. The internal gun is a pocket knife for if shit's gone real wrong. If you find yourself using it, you've fucked up.

For CAS and "gun runs" they can use external pods.

Otherwise they are using missiles... and likely not even their own missiles.
But don't most of the European fighters named use single barreled canons with much slower rates of fire than a rotary cannon?
Rate
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:42:43 PM EST
It's so cute!  It's like a little puppy fart
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:49:40 PM EST
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Quoted:
But don't most of the European fighters named use single barreled canons with much slower rates of fire than a rotary cannon?
Rate
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
how many rounds carried internally?
180ish rounds
So one burst and its empty, that is pathetic.


See the chart above. 180 rounds is very much in line with what is in modern fighters. The internal gun is a pocket knife for if shit's gone real wrong. If you find yourself using it, you've fucked up.

For CAS and "gun runs" they can use external pods.

Otherwise they are using missiles... and likely not even their own missiles.
But don't most of the European fighters named use single barreled canons with much slower rates of fire than a rotary cannon?
Rate
All that means is that they can technically fire for longer but with bigger spaces between bullets. They still have the same number of potential hits.

Especially with the computer helping me out... I'd rather get the rounds out closer together so they'll more likely hit the target.

Let's say I'm doing a 25 round burst (that's just to make the math easy, that'll take ~0.5 seconds at ~3000rpm) while the enemy crosses in front of my cannon. That's 25 potential hits.

If I did the same thing in a Typhoon (~1800 rpm), it would take almost a whole second to get 25 rounds out. Meaning the enemy would have nearly twice as long to clear my cannon... making it harder to get those 25 potential hits. (Sure, I got to shoot for longer... but who cares?)
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:58:28 PM EST
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other planes, ships, ground based, plenty of options.
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Quoted:
Whose missiles they using?
other planes, ships, ground based, plenty of options.
There are very few TACAIR aircraft that can carry the F-35's payload.  Notice how it doesn't need external fuel tanks.  18,500lb internal fuel is huge, especially since it's drag-free.  With 4 internal hard point/ejector racks and 7 external hard points/rails, it has 2 more than an F-16 (9), and as many as a Super Hornet, but with way less drag even when you configure it with external stores in a semi-permissive phase of an air campaign.







There aren't many F-15E payloads the F-35 can't carry.  This one, for example, is easy for the F-35 to carry and still have less drag, because it doesn't need EFTs (External Fuel Tanks).  The targeting pod is integrated into the F-35's airframe, so it doesn't need an external, draggy Electro-Optical FLIR/Laser Spot Tracker because that's always in the nose and fused with the entire sensor suite, including the RF, MWIR, AESA, and DAS sensors.



Every F-35 stores configuration includes at least 2 x AIM-120 AMRAAMs, which don't impede on the ability to carry other A2A or A2G weapons in the internal weapons bays.  The more they work with the F-35, the more it looks like AIM-9X on stations 1 and 11 will be pretty standard, since that doesn't impact frontal RCS in practice enough to want them gone, the VLO of the F-35 is that good.  So carrying 4 AAMs along with bombs and A2G munitions will be pretty common.

Since you can close to within No Escape Zone parameters unobserved, Pk for AIM-9X and AIM-120C/D goes way up, simply because there isn't enough time for the enemy to detect and evade what they can't see.  Even worse for them, if you gun them, they have no countermeasures for that.

Link Posted: 8/28/2018 1:58:36 PM EST
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Whose missiles they using?
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Those from 4th gen fighters using data links.
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 2:11:10 PM EST
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Quoted:
Those from 4th gen fighters using data links.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Whose missiles they using?
Those from 4th gen fighters using data links.
Or their little robot buddies...

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a19592740/air-force-f-35a-drones-loyal-wingman/

I can't wait to see a real video of a pair of F-35's and their tethered X-47b's (whatever their final designation ends up being ) catapulting off a Ford Class.

https://manglermuldoon.blogspot.com/2016/12/innovation-and-air-dominance-loyal.html
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 2:12:50 PM EST
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Those from 4th gen fighters using data links.
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Quoted:
Whose missiles they using?
Those from 4th gen fighters using data links.
It can carry plenty of AAMs currently, and will increase internal AMRAAM load from 4 to 6 with Block 4.









Link Posted: 8/28/2018 2:17:25 PM EST
Accidentally posted this in the B52 thread,  LRRP

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According to the USAF bomber roadmap the B-21 will replace the B-2's by 2032, B-1's by 2040.

My own thoughts are that they might start cycling out B-52's depending on how many 21's get built.  Full-on replacement of the BUFF though is supposed to be from the 2037 bomber, which is probably going to be a pretty impressive aircraft.
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I don’t think this plan  will survive a D administration any better than the planned number of F-22s.
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When we let people like Obama, Gates, and McCain work together on our enemies' behalf, they will do everything in their power to kill critical programs for our planned National force projection posture.

Carter and a D Congress cancelled the B-1A, cut funding for the Navy's F-14B and A+ re-engine plans for the GE motor that the Tomcat desperately needed, but the F-15 and F-16 programs continued full steam ahead under Carter.

We are suffering now because of the F-22 being killed, as we try to fly F-15Cs well past their service lives, while F-35s are being made as fast as possible to one-for-one into former F-16C/D Squadrons in USAF, while the production plan was envisioned with the assumption we would have 800 F-22As that had replaced F-15Cs.

That 187 F-22A number really leaves a gap in the dedicated air superiority fleet, and we can't make F-35s fast enough.
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You think there's any chance as the F35 cost per plane declines, we could end up with MORE of them than originally planned?

I mean, what if they get cheaper than 4th gen birds?


Never mind, answered
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 2:19:44 PM EST
Full disclosure:
I get to see/hear/feel those things go thundering over almost every day.  I also might know a few Airmen and contractors who work at Luke AFB.  I also might’ve been buzzed by one while out in the middle of nowhere (northern Arizona).

With apologies to Sylvan, I love that airplane
Link Posted: 8/28/2018 2:23:58 PM EST
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Full disclosure:
I get to see/hear/feel those things go thundering over almost every day.  I also might know a few Airmen and contractors who work at Luke AFB.  I also might’ve been buzzed by one while out in the middle of nowhere (northern Arizona).

With apologies to Sylvan, I love that airplane
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Me too.

I've said this in other threads... but, sure "numbers on paper" it's no F-22.

But it's a whole new bird.

It's not a strike-fighter. It is a a sensor package and a network hub. It's teeth are basically every guided weapon in the battle space.
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