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Posted: 12/20/2016 9:55:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2016 12:09:53 PM EST by hardcorps1775]
So I have been informed. It denies culture and is demeaning to expect American blacks to speak proper English.

I was told this by a black female retired USAF colonel I have race based/political discussions with. She speaks proper English but she grew up in the hood. She's actually very intelligent, very friendly, very funny, and very informative.

I wanted to make a poll but don't see the tools...
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 10:27:20 AM EST
So I guess expecting black people to sound ignorant is not racist?
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 10:27:52 AM EST
So...
You're (your/yore ) being told that they are not capable of enunciation and proper grammar?
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 10:38:41 AM EST
How you talk is generally a reflection of your intelligence, so judging someone on their speech and grammar is not so much racist as it is "Intelligencist".

I can't speak for everyone here but I have never really met a smart person who talked like mush mouth or lil' abner. I know many very smart people who speak with regional accents, but an accent has nothing to do with grammar and using words above a 4th grade level.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 10:43:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 10:43:32 AM EST
It seems like 20% of the postings on ARF.com reflect a pretty loose grasp of grammar, punctuation and/or usage. Are these members black or might piss poor English cut across racial/ethnic lines? I'm just axing, yo!
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 10:49:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
FYI, you spelled grammar wrong in your title.
View Quote




Link Posted: 12/20/2016 10:52:31 AM EST
So, it's ok to correct white people but not people of color?
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 10:52:58 AM EST
Whoo hoo! I'm no longer mangling the English language, I'm fighting the white racist patriarchy.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 10:58:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2016 11:00:23 AM EST by alemonkey]
I have a friend who's one of the smartest guys I know.  He owned his own successful business until he sold it, has a shop full of machine tools and rivals MacGyver in his ability to fabricate stuff, and built his house with his own hands.  And he sounds like a caveman when he talks.

I would argue proper grammar is a sign of education, not intelligence.  
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:02:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
So I have been informed. It denies culture and is demeaning to expect American blacks to speak proper English.

I was told this by a black female retired USAF colonel I have race based/political discussions with. She speaks proper English but she grew up in the hood. She's actually very intelligent, very friendly, very funny, and very informative.

I wanted to make a poll but don't see the tools...
View Quote


She may be educated but she is not intelligent.
If she had the smallest bit of intelligence she wouldn't advance such a weak ass argument.
Typical racism of lowered expectations.
Did she allow her black subordinates to perform at a substantially lower rate than the white?
Worthless racist scum is what she is.
Fuck her.

Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:03:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
FYI, you spelled grammar wrong in your title.
View Quote


Racist! You're a fucking white male!
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:07:35 AM EST
Slick-speaking, eloquent FBHO - we all knew he was a racist.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:11:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
How you talk is generally a reflection of your intelligence, so judging someone on their speech and grammar is not so much racist as it is "Intelligencist".

I can't speak for everyone here but I have never really met a smart person who talked like mush mouth or lil' abner. I know many very smart people who speak with regional accents, but an accent has nothing to do with grammar and using words above a 4th grade level.
View Quote

I know a bunch of highly intelligent folks that use colloquialisms and regional jargon. There are also a bunch of those folks who are chameleons when it comes to sounding like lil' Abner.

A lot of folks seem to think that speaking 'bumpkin' exposes those 'egotists' who believe that their 'proper grammar and enunciation' make them morally superior to us 'bumpkins'. Those egotists are the people who would take advantage of anyone to whom they perceive themselves 'superior'. Yankees have a real predilection for for such misnomers. 

Personally, I've yet to find many people that I can't connect with in casual conversation...and usually size them up pretty quickly...and I use 'bumpkinease'...a lot.

YMMV   
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:12:06 AM EST
Ask her if she prefers the soft bigotry of lower expectations.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:12:59 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MonkeyFist:


She may be educated but she is not intelligent.
If she had the smallest bit of intelligence she wouldn't advance such a weak ass argument.
Typical racism of lowered expectations.
Did she allow her black subordinates to perform at a substantially lower rate than the white?
Worthless racist scum is what she is.
Fuck her.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MonkeyFist:
Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
So I have been informed. It denies culture and is demeaning to expect American blacks to speak proper English.

I was told this by a black female retired USAF colonel I have race based/political discussions with. She speaks proper English but she grew up in the hood. She's actually very intelligent, very friendly, very funny, and very informative.

I wanted to make a poll but don't see the tools...


She may be educated but she is not intelligent.
If she had the smallest bit of intelligence she wouldn't advance such a weak ass argument.
Typical racism of lowered expectations.
Did she allow her black subordinates to perform at a substantially lower rate than the white?
Worthless racist scum is what she is.
Fuck her.
Indeed. 
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:15:37 AM EST
Do people who speak with regional variations of American English speak incorrectly or differently? How about Haitians and other French Caribbean black folks, do they speak French incorrectly or an independent variation of French?

African-American Vernacular English has rules, people who are educated about linguistics, language patterns, accents, and the like can offer some clarification for anybody who wants to actually learn new things. Alternatively you can continue thinking "anybody who doesn't talk like me is less smart than me", it's a very strong position rooted in tons of fact, y'all (or you'uns) are a real pack of geniuses, I tell you what.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:21:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PhulesAu:
So I guess expecting black people to sound ignorant is not racist?
View Quote


The flipside is by stating things like that, they're implying blacks are ignorant and stupid.

It's like saying "Affirmative Action is needed because black people can't function without the white man's help"

Phrasing things to leftists like that sends them over the edge.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:35:07 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
How you talk is generally a reflection of your intelligence, so judging someone on their speech and grammar is not so much racist as it is "Intelligencist".

I can't speak for everyone here but I have never really met a smart person who talked like mush mouth or lil' abner. I know many very smart people who speak with regional accents, but an accent has nothing to do with grammar and using words above a 4th grade level.
View Quote


I'm going to have to disagree. My IQ is in the top 5% of the population. I still sound like a dumb hillbilly unless I actively avoid it. People speak a certain way because of where they were raised, it has little to do with intelligence.  
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:45:39 AM EST
Just ask Her how it feels to be a lifelong token.
The ONLY fukn way she got to colonel was through affirmative action quotas.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:48:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
So I have been informed. It denies culture and is demeaning to expect American blacks to speak proper English.

I was told this by a black female retired USAF colonel I have race based/political discussions with. She speaks proper English but she grew up in the hood. She's actually very intelligent, very friendly, very funny, and very informative.

I wanted to make a poll but don't see the tools...
View Quote


Is she hot?

That's the only real question here.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 11:54:47 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NotoriousBRT:


I'm going to have to disagree. My IQ is in the top 5% of the population. I still sound like a dumb hillbilly unless I actively avoid it. People speak a certain way because of where they were raised, it has little to do with intelligence.  
View Quote


It sounds like you are making the argument for social dialect above regional dialect.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:02:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Trmaher:
It seems like 20% of the postings on ARF.com reflect a pretty loose grasp of grammar, punctuation and/or usage. Are these members black or might piss poor English cut across racial/ethnic lines? I'm just axing, yo!
View Quote

That's the Gene Curve. 
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:09:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2016 12:11:58 PM EST by makintrax73]
Well here's the thing: If I'm doing the hiring at my business, and you are speaking with my customers on the phone, you will speak like a professional. If that is "racist" IDGAF. You can go start your own business and hire whomever you would like.

If I call a business and the person on the phone sounds like they are a gang banger or an idiot I will take my business elsewhere. Again, if that is "racist" IDGAF.

The ability or inability to speak like a professional has nothing to do with race. It has to do with culture, education and a professional attitude.

Black people in this country would do themselves a very large collective favor by accepting the fact that if you choose not to adopt the majority culture of the country you live in then there are consequences. That's life. I don't show up in court in shorts and a baseball cap covering my uncombed hair, much as I would rather not go to the trouble of putting on a suit and combing my hair.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:10:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
FYI, you spelled grammar wrong in your title.
View Quote

I did it on purpose...yeah, that's the ticket!
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:17:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
FYI, you spelled grammar wrong in your title.
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:19:55 PM EST
i lik grammer
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:23:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pcsutton:

I know a bunch of highly intelligent folks that use colloquialisms and regional jargon. There are also a bunch of those folks who are chameleons when it comes to sounding like lil' Abner.

A lot of folks seem to think that speaking 'bumpkin' exposes those 'egotists' who believe that their 'proper grammar and enunciation' make them morally superior to us 'bumpkins'. Those egotists are the people who would take advantage of anyone to whom they perceive themselves 'superior'. Yankees have a real predilection for for such misnomers. 

Personally, I've yet to find many people that I can't connect with in casual conversation...and usually size them up pretty quickly...and I use 'bumpkinease'...a lot.

YMMV   
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pcsutton:
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
How you talk is generally a reflection of your intelligence, so judging someone on their speech and grammar is not so much racist as it is "Intelligencist".

I can't speak for everyone here but I have never really met a smart person who talked like mush mouth or lil' abner. I know many very smart people who speak with regional accents, but an accent has nothing to do with grammar and using words above a 4th grade level.

I know a bunch of highly intelligent folks that use colloquialisms and regional jargon. There are also a bunch of those folks who are chameleons when it comes to sounding like lil' Abner.

A lot of folks seem to think that speaking 'bumpkin' exposes those 'egotists' who believe that their 'proper grammar and enunciation' make them morally superior to us 'bumpkins'. Those egotists are the people who would take advantage of anyone to whom they perceive themselves 'superior'. Yankees have a real predilection for for such misnomers. 

Personally, I've yet to find many people that I can't connect with in casual conversation...and usually size them up pretty quickly...and I use 'bumpkinease'...a lot.

YMMV   


I've found just as strong a prejudice in the other direction, from those that speak "bumpkin" towards those that speak more proper english. It's very helpful to be well versed in the vernacular of the lower classes to avoid such issues. Saves money on car repairs for instance.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:24:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alemonkey:
I have a friend who's one of the smartest guys I know.  He owned his own successful business until he sold it, has a shop full of machine tools and rivals MacGyver in his ability to fabricate stuff, and built his house with his own hands.  And he sounds like a caveman when he talks.

I would argue proper grammar is a sign of education, not intelligence.  
View Quote

Your friend is highly successful but ignorant. I know several people who have done really well in their businesses, yet are incredibly unintelligent; as in, I didn't know Africa was a continent level stupid.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:27:18 PM EST
What did you axe her?
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:57:01 PM EST
Reason and logic left the building a long time ago.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 12:59:20 PM EST
How does she pronounce the word "ask"?
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 1:12:06 PM EST
Does that imply that US blacks are a different race than blacks from Africa?  Because the actual African Americans I have met speak better english than most American blacks (and many whites).  This issue is a classic case of confusing race and culture, and excusing the sub-par behavior of others because they have the same skin color as you helps nobody.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 1:12:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2016 1:18:31 PM EST by AZshooter71]
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 1:42:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2016 1:45:00 PM EST by Him]
Damnit!

I did it again.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 1:44:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2016 2:03:06 PM EST by Him]
If one speaks "correct" and grammatical, Standard North American English, and someone doesn't understand them .............. fuck 'em.

Everybody in this country goes to school, but if they choose not to learn ........... fuck 'em.

If they can't express themselves clearly, then they can't be upset when I have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.

The purpose of language is to communicate thoughts, precisely and clearly, not to cater to those who don't bother to learn how to do so.

Did I say "fuck 'em"?

ETA: And I don't give a big happy hairy rat's ass what color their skin is.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 1:53:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 1:55:27 PM EST
Mrs. Miami_JBT hates he savage speakers.



As a Black Hispanic, she is appalled when she is compared to Black Americans. She wants nothing to do with them culturally speaking since as she puts it they are inferior.

My wife is highly educated, fluently speaks English with a lovely exotic Puerto Rican accent, and one hell of a hard worker.

Fuck the savages
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 2:01:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 2:21:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brass:
Why can UK blacks master the same language, especially with all the odd words?

What is unique about America, where a certain group of people simply will not attempt to join the rest of America?
View Quote


Using the same reference, what is wrong with UK whites who speak cockney? The same thing "wrong" with US blacks who speak ebonics.

They are social dialects (as opposed to regional dialects), which are commonly associated with low social class / lack of education / intelligence. You can put ten kids in the same classroom and have the teacher teach the "proper" form of the local language to them (the regional dialect), and depending on their social standing / living environment / intelligence they will still speak with the social dialect used in their household.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 2:46:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By whomper:

That's the Gene Curve. 
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Originally Posted By whomper:
Originally Posted By Trmaher:
It seems like 20% of the postings on ARF.com reflect a pretty loose grasp of grammar, punctuation and/or usage. Are these members black or might piss poor English cut across racial/ethnic lines? I'm just axing, yo!

That's the Gene Curve. 


Link Posted: 12/20/2016 3:37:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PapaFoxtrot:
Slick-speaking, eloquent FBHO - we all knew he was a racist.
View Quote

  Have you heard that ignorant fuck speak without a TeleprompTer?  He's far from eloquent.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 4:28:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 4:53:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2016 5:06:49 PM EST by Him]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:


Using the same reference, what is wrong with UK whites who speak cockney? The same thing "wrong" with US blacks who speak ebonics.

They are social dialects (as opposed to regional dialects), which are commonly associated with low social class / lack of education / intelligence. You can put ten kids in the same classroom and have the teacher teach the "proper" form of the local language to them (the regional dialect), and depending on their social standing / living environment / intelligence they will still speak with the social dialect used in their household.
View Quote

So what is your point?

That seems to prove that "You can make 'em go to school, but you can't make 'em learn."

(which sort of implies "If they don't want to learn, fuck 'em)
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 5:11:25 PM EST
Speaking and dressing properly is one of easiest things to do that can improve your station in life.

Ghetto speak is done by people that don't want to elevate themselves.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 5:26:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Him:

So what is your point?

That seems to prove that "You can make 'em go to school, but you can't make 'em learn."

(which sort of implies "If they don't want to learn, fuck 'em)
View Quote


That kind of is my point.

I just wanted to point out that sometimes people conflate a regional dialect with a societal one. You can speak very eloquently with a southern drawl (or western lilt, or northern croon, etc.), or you can mush mouth the hell out of it with a southern drawl. One makes people think you are an educated, intelligent southern gentleman... the other makes people think you are not. And perception is as much a factor of language as the words.
Link Posted: 12/20/2016 5:37:41 PM EST
Using correct grammar and properly pronouncing words in an accent or drawl is one thing.

Insisting on using incorrect grammar or mispronouncing words is just ignorant. But if those blacks refuse instruction because they prefer to wallow in failure, so be it. Just dont call it culture, call it what it is: barbarism.
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