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Posted: 8/12/2011 7:55:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Good read.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 7:56:08 AM EDT
[#2]
Good article
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Posted: 8/12/2011 7:59:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Don't get me wrong. I'm not an anti-war dove. I'm a hawk in the Curtis-LeMay-nuke-'em-'til-they-glow school of warfare. In all seriousness I believe we should have blown the mountaintop off with a tactical nuclear bomb when we were chasing Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora in 2001. That would've sent the world a message to not attack us. If you think that's crazy, consider the fact that if the Soviet Union had ever caused the damage to the U.S. that terrorists did on 9/11, we would have obliterated them with nuclear weapons. The fact that we didn't even consider using a small tactical nuke in the remote mountains where civilian casualties and fallout would have been nil shows that we are not taking our national security seriously. I agree. Had it been my call, I would have nuke'd them until it altered the earths rotation.  |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:02:14 AM EDT
[#4]
That would've sent the world a message to not attack us. If you think that's crazy, consider the fact that if the Soviet Union had ever caused the damage to the U.S. that terrorists did on 9/11, we would have obliterated them with nuclear weapons. The fact that we didn't even consider using a small tactical nuke in the remote mountains where civilian casualties and fallout would have been nil shows that we are not taking our national security seriously.
Wars will always need to be fought, but they need to be fought intelligently. Any war that has dragged on for ten years and is planned for at least another three years is, by definition, not being fought intelligently. The Afghanistan war is now beyond ridiculous. Good stuff. I like the article. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:07:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Spot on.
I've been saying this for a few years, and even voiced it once or twice on arfcom, however I was shouted down. I'll be interested to see what those same people say about this article. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:10:08 AM EDT
[#6]
I could not have said it better.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:10:30 AM EDT
[#7]
I could not have said it better.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:15:54 AM EDT
[#8]
President Obama could not pass a background check to be a $12-an-hour deputy sheriff in a county jail, let alone become a Navy SEAL, but it is he who commands them to their deaths. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:20:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Nailed it.
Obama should have announced our withdrawal the day after we offed OBL. And Bush should have used a low-yield nuke at Tora-Bora. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:36:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for the article. Good read and spot on.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:39:51 AM EDT
[#11]
Some valid points but also some bullshit ones. Calling the effort futile is ill-informed.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:42:26 AM EDT
[#12]
tagging this for later....
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:43:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Great read.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:45:10 AM EDT
[#14]
I can only imagine what the author would have said about sending men to Vietnam, West Germany and so on to stand up to the Soviets. The US made the mistake of ignoring groups like Hamas after the Marine barracks bombing in 1983 and emboldened a generation of violent american hating vermin.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:48:05 AM EDT
[#15]
I have felt this way for many years.
The United States is not worthy of the men and women who serve it in the Armed Forces. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:48:08 AM EDT
[#16]
President Obama could not pass a background check to be a $12-an-hour deputy sheriff in a county jail, let alone become a Navy SEAL, but it is he who commands them to their deaths.
Something about that really rubs me the wrong way. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:49:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not an anti-war dove. I'm a hawk in the Curtis-LeMay-nuke-'em-'til-they-glow school of warfare. In all seriousness I believe we should have blown the mountaintop off with a tactical nuclear bomb when we were chasing Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora in 2001. That would've sent the world a message to not attack us. If you think that's crazy, consider the fact that if the Soviet Union had ever caused the damage to the U.S. that terrorists did on 9/11, we would have obliterated them with nuclear weapons. The fact that we didn't even consider using a small tactical nuke in the remote mountains where civilian casualties and fallout would have been nil shows that we are not taking our national security seriously.
I agree. Had it been my call, I would have nuke'd them until it altered the earths rotation.
Future generations would have known it as “Lake Tora Bora.” |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 8:51:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Some valid points but also some bullshit ones. Calling the effort futile is ill-informed. what is going on in Afghanistan is the very definition of futility |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 9:06:27 AM EDT
[#19]
What about the 8 non-SEALS that were killed? I wonder what the author's screen name is?
Brian |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 9:10:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Some valid points but also some bullshit ones. Calling the effort futile is ill-informed. what is going on in Afghanistan is the very definition of futility Futility in the aspect of the use of restricted warfare. There is progress to be had and are having. The problem is CiC not giving us all the tools we want and years of trying to have a Kabul-centric government. Now that we are dealing with the provinces directly we are starting to get somewhere. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 9:12:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
President Obama could not pass a background check to be a $12-an-hour deputy sheriff in a county jail, let alone become a Navy SEAL, but it is he who commands them to their deaths.
Fuck Obama |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 9:34:40 AM EDT
[#22]
There is something sickeningly wrong with a country that sends it finest, fittest, most disciplined young men into combat for ten years straight while legions of welfare cheats and stock-market Ponzi schemers lounge about and the government borrows trillions from their yet-unborn grandchildren. Is the author mentally retarded? What does one have to do with the other? Just because the gov't is doing one thing wrong (welfare) doesn't mean it isn't doing another thing right (Afghanistan). Leaving Afghanistan would be a colossal strategic blunder. As far as the dead SEALs: Find out if the pilots did something wrong. If they did, then stop doing that thing. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 9:48:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Effete. He called Barry effete.
I am going to use that. - Z |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 10:18:21 AM EDT
[#24]
(baby voice) Awww, poor american people.....they vote for a war, then when it takes a long time and people die they feel sad
The people going over there and fighting generally aren't complaining.....let them do their job |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 10:24:04 AM EDT
[#25]
That is a good read.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 10:24:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I can only imagine what the author would have said about sending men to Vietnam, West Germany and so on to stand up to the Soviets. The US made the mistake of ignoring groups like Hamas after the Marine barracks bombing in 1983 and emboldened a generation of violent american hating vermin. Al-Quida isn't even in Afganistan anymore. It would be like having solders in Germany now that the cold war is over.... oh, wait..... And you must have missed the part about the author thinking that dropping the A-bomb on the fuckers would have been the way to go. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 10:27:52 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Some valid points but also some bullshit ones. Calling the effort futile is ill-informed. In all seriousness, what is the end goal in Afghanistan? |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 10:29:38 AM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 8/12/2011 10:33:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Excellent article. Thanks for posting.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 10:58:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not an anti-war dove. I'm a hawk in the Curtis-LeMay-nuke-'em-'til-they-glow school of warfare. In all seriousness I believe we should have blown the mountaintop off with a tactical nuclear bomb when we were chasing Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora in 2001. That would've sent the world a message to not attack us. If you think that's crazy, consider the fact that if the Soviet Union had ever caused the damage to the U.S. that terrorists did on 9/11, we would have obliterated them with nuclear weapons. The fact that we didn't even consider using a small tactical nuke in the remote mountains where civilian casualties and fallout would have been nil shows that we are not taking our national security seriously.
I agree. Had it been my call, I would have nuke'd them until it altered the earths rotation.
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:11:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not an anti-war dove. I'm a hawk in the Curtis-LeMay-nuke-'em-'til-they-glow school of warfare. In all seriousness I believe we should have blown the mountaintop off with a tactical nuclear bomb when we were chasing Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora in 2001. That would've sent the world a message to not attack us. If you think that's crazy, consider the fact that if the Soviet Union had ever caused the damage to the U.S. that terrorists did on 9/11, we would have obliterated them with nuclear weapons. The fact that we didn't even consider using a small tactical nuke in the remote mountains where civilian casualties and fallout would have been nil shows that we are not taking our national security seriously.
I agree. Had it been my call, I would have nuke'd them until it altered the earths rotation.
Future generations would have known it as “Glass Bottomed Lake Tora Bora.” |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:11:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Some valid points but also some bullshit ones. Calling the effort futile is ill-informed. This. I was with him for the first few paragraphs then he lost me quickly with his talk (opinion) on it being useless. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:13:07 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Some valid points but also some bullshit ones. Calling the effort futile is ill-informed. what is going on in Afghanistan is the very definition of futility Exactly. The government talks about accomplishing some nebulous mission over there. What is it? How do we know when it has been accomplished? If the goal is to civilize the people and make Afghanistan a viable, stable country, we should leave tomorrow with a promise to be back with a vengeance if they don't behave themselves. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:14:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Some valid points but also some bullshit ones. Calling the effort futile is ill-informed. This. I was with him for the first few paragraphs then he lost me quickly with his talk (opinion) on it being useless. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile What is being accomplished that is worth the expenditure of American lives? We're killing Taliban? Vietnam was fought as a war of attrition where we killed more of them than they did of us. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:17:46 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not an anti-war dove. I'm a hawk in the Curtis-LeMay-nuke-'em-'til-they-glow school of warfare. In all seriousness I believe we should have blown the mountaintop off with a tactical nuclear bomb when we were chasing Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora in 2001. That would've sent the world a message to not attack us. If you think that's crazy, consider the fact that if the Soviet Union had ever caused the damage to the U.S. that terrorists did on 9/11, we would have obliterated them with nuclear weapons. The fact that we didn't even consider using a small tactical nuke in the remote mountains where civilian casualties and fallout would have been nil shows that we are not taking our national security seriously.
I agree. Had it been my call, I would have nuke'd them until it altered the earths rotation.
Many of us here at AR15.com have been stating that clearly for years and years including myself. It is now clear that the US will not use nuclear weapons unless attacked by another nation with nuclear weapons and that completely removes our most powerful weapon from having any deterrent effect regarding other threats. 
It's yet another area in which this nation has formulated some horrible policies that needs to be addressed and changed. However, you can't even talk about the use of nuclear weapons against terrorist groups in a serious conversation without being labeled a "nutjob." |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:17:47 AM EDT
[#36]
tag
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:27:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Exactly. The government talks about accomplishing some nebulous mission over there. What is it? How do we know when it has been accomplished? If the goal is to civilize the people and make Afghanistan a viable, stable country, we should leave tomorrow with a promise to be back with a vengeance if they don't behave themselves. The Taliban government never presented a direct threat to the USA. It was only our unwillingness to kill individuals through assassination or use of military force prior to 9/11 that created the conditions of 9/11. We cared too much about Pakistan and violating their air space or too much about civilian collateral damage or the Executive Order post-Vietnam that banned US ordered assassinations of foreign citizens. Truth is we can enter any airspace we want and we don't need permission from any nation to defend ourselves against Terrorists. We shouldn't need Pakistan's permission to bomb targets in Pakistan or for that matter send in troops. Where threats are found to the USA they should be eliminated by us if nobody else can or will eliminate them. Pretty simple. Not one single red blooded American who wasn't a total commie liberal would have jumped for joy if GWB had stated on 9/12 that we were going to Afghanistan to build schools and teach them how a toliet works. People want security and they want those who would harm them killed or captured period. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:06:07 PM EDT
[#38]
I've spoken with a number of our men and women who have served in that hell hole. What I hear is that we are trying to do good, but it is futile. There is no common bond to unit the people. They are a tribal society with no sense of national unity. They have no loyalty to anyone or anything other than who they think has power at the moment. As soon as they sense some shift in power they will change sides and not even bat an eye. We build schools there and then the Taliban or some other towel head blows them up because we are allowing girls to go to school. They are pissed at us for messing up their drug crops. The people are afraid of retaliation if they cooperate with us because they know as soon as we move on the Taliban will get even with them.
Bottom line is that too many of the people there are as dumb as dirt and there is no bond to unit them as a country. Unless we want to occupy the county for several more decades and dedicate ridiculous resources, it will all go back to how it has been for the last 2,000 years shortly after we leave. Last time I checked we had plenty of problems here at home and not enough money to fix them. We have a crumbling infrastructure, crime plagued cities, and a lot of people going to bed hungry. Maybe after we fix all our problems at home we can use all the spare money to try to reengineer other countries. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:22:40 PM EDT
[#39]
So, the problem that culminated in 3000 American citizens being killed began when soviet troops left Afghanistan because "it was difficult".
Thus, the smart thing for us to do is to leave Afghanistan because "it's difficult". I don't quite follow... I'm not particularly fond of throwing troops into whack-a-mole operations, but I don't really have any idea what they're doing over there right now, so I'm inclined to stfu and let them keep doing it until they decide to stop. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:24:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I can only imagine what the author would have said about sending men to Vietnam, West Germany and so on to stand up to the Soviets. The US made the mistake of ignoring groups like Hamas after the Marine barracks bombing in 1983 and emboldened a generation of violent american hating vermin. The penguin makes a good point however it does not account for Afghan culture. They really just want to be left alone. The taliban has no worldly ambition outside their borders. They donlt really have an agenda against the great satan or the little satan. The problem is the 3rd parties they tolerate. The taliban WILL control afghanistan when we leave. period. We need to pull in from the FOBs, keep KAF, BAF and some place out west like Herat or Shindand. places we can support from the air. Then tell the afghan's... Ok, here's you country back but if we trace one single fucking terrorist attack anywhere in the world back to afghanistan we're going to bomb the jesus into you. That's the only way out now. Ive spent almost 4yrs of my life in AFG since early 2002 and it just doesn't seem to be changing much. A lot of mission creep, a lot of money down the tubes and everyone but "Joe" making money. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:27:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
So, the problem that culminated in 3000 American citizens being killed began when soviet troops left Afghanistan because "it was difficult". Thus, the smart thing for us to do is to leave Afghanistan because "it's difficult". I don't quite follow... I'm not particularly fond of throwing troops into whack-a-mole operations, but I don't really have any idea what they're doing over there right now, so I'm inclined to stfu and let them keep doing it until they decide to stop. whats the worst that could happen by letting the Taliban take back Afghanistan and having every extremist in the middle east emboldened by their victory over the great satan? |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:33:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
whats the worst that could happen by letting the Taliban take back Afghanistan and having every extremist in the middle east emboldened by their victory over the great satan? That pretty much nails it. Ultimately, we were attacked because Osama perceived the US as a paper tiger after we withdrew from Somalia. Sometimes you have to fight even if only so people know you will. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:36:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: whats the worst that could happen by letting the Taliban take back Afghanistan and having every extremist in the middle east emboldened by their victory over the great satan? That pretty much nails it. Ultimately, we were attacked because Osama perceived the US as a paper tiger after we withdrew from Somalia. Sometimes you have to fight even if only so people know you will. Personally, I don't have a problem with 'fighting' as a nation. Nation-building, civilizing the natives, or whatever the fuck is the current goal...that's what I have a problem with. Kill the enemies of America, don't build them highways. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:47:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Good article Bunch of fucking tripe. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:48:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
There is something sickeningly wrong with a country that sends it finest, fittest, most disciplined young men into combat for ten years straight while legions of welfare cheats and stock-market Ponzi schemers lounge about and the government borrows trillions from their yet-unborn grandchildren. Is the author mentally retarded? What does one have to do with the other? Just because the gov't is doing one thing wrong (welfare) doesn't mean it isn't doing another thing right (Afghanistan). Leaving Afghanistan would be a colossal strategic blunder. As far as the dead SEALs: Find out if the pilots did something wrong. If they did, then stop doing that thing. The author is a fucking idiot. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:49:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
whats the worst that could happen by letting the Taliban take back Afghanistan and having every extremist in the middle east emboldened by their victory over the great satan? That pretty much nails it. Ultimately, we were attacked because Osama perceived the US as a paper tiger after we withdrew from Somalia. Sometimes you have to fight even if only so people know you will. Personally, I don't have a problem with 'fighting' as a nation. Nation-building, civilizing the natives, or whatever the fuck is the current goal...that's what I have a problem with. Kill the enemies of America, don't build them highways. This. We don't need to keep the presence we have in Afghanistan right now to continue the "war on terror." |
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Posted: 8/13/2011 12:00:27 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is something sickeningly wrong with a country that sends it finest, fittest, most disciplined young men into combat for ten years straight while legions of welfare cheats and stock-market Ponzi schemers lounge about and the government borrows trillions from their yet-unborn grandchildren. Is the author mentally retarded? What does one have to do with the other? Just because the gov't is doing one thing wrong (welfare) doesn't mean it isn't doing another thing right (Afghanistan). Leaving Afghanistan would be a colossal strategic blunder. As far as the dead SEALs: Find out if the pilots did something wrong. If they did, then stop doing that thing. The author is a fucking idiot. I.....I.... agree with Joshki? What's going on here.... |
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Posted: 8/13/2011 12:02:11 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is something sickeningly wrong with a country that sends it finest, fittest, most disciplined young men into combat for ten years straight while legions of welfare cheats and stock-market Ponzi schemers lounge about and the government borrows trillions from their yet-unborn grandchildren. Is the author mentally retarded? What does one have to do with the other? Just because the gov't is doing one thing wrong (welfare) doesn't mean it isn't doing another thing right (Afghanistan). Leaving Afghanistan would be a colossal strategic blunder. As far as the dead SEALs: Find out if the pilots did something wrong. If they did, then stop doing that thing. The author is a fucking idiot. I.....I.... agree with Josh? What's going on here.... 
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Posted: 8/13/2011 9:00:59 AM EDT
[#49]
I put way too much value in our men and women in uniform to see them killed for people who would piss on their grave while holding a burning American flag.
We should only use our military to kill people and break things, not to teach safe sex to natives and to build schools. Leave that part to Obama's youth brigades or some other social do good organization. For democracy to work you need people who are at least semi educated and have the ability for self control. They don't have those qualities. It is our presence in that region of the world that makes them want to take action against the USA. Get out of there and 90% of the problem is solved. The other 10% you will never solve because Islam has the goal of world domination. It's a big planet and if you think that by controlling every square inch of Afghanistan we will stop terrorism that is a joke. Hell, if they really wanted to do something to us they could build training camps in Mexico and walk across the border like the millions of illegals already do. |
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Posted: 8/13/2011 9:08:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
I put way too much value in our men and women in uniform to see them killed for people who would piss on their grave while holding a burning American flag. We should only use our military to kill people and break things, not to teach safe sex to natives and to build schools. Leave that part to Obama's youth brigades or some other social do good organization. For democracy to work you need people who are at least semi educated and have the ability for self control. They don't have those qualities. It is our presence in that region of the world that makes them want to take action against the USA. Get out of there and 90% of the problem is solved. The other 10% you will never solve because Islam has the goal of world domination. It's a big planet and if you think that by controlling every square inch of Afghanistan we will stop terrorism that is a joke. Hell, if they really wanted to do something to us they could build training camps in Mexico and walk across the border like the millions of illegals already do. Everyone in uniform knows well that anyone who would kill us would piss on our grave while holding a burning American flag. And that's just the people who dislike us in our own country. I guarantee you the people in that helo were going to "kill people and break things", not teach safe sex or build schools. So what's your problem? Our presence in the ME is not what causes terrorism. That's a complete misunderstanding of Islam and the AQ mindset. Our aim is not to "control every square inch of Afghanistan". It's to build a government that's strong enough to do that when we leave. |
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