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Posted: 2/17/2016 5:40:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/17/2016 5:50:06 PM EST by Undefined]
eForm 4 has been gone for some time, and now no more eForm 1's after 41F goes into effect (7/13/16). None. We're back to paper from here on out.

ATF changed their mind on the 24 month prior approval certification section of 41F, even though it is going into the Code of Federal Regulations that way, and will be requiring fingerprints and photographs for every form 1 or form 4 submission. You can't submit a FD-258 Fingerprint card through eForms...

It was fun while it lasted.

eForm 1 - 8/1/13 - 7/13/16



SilencerShop's Explanation
Prince Law Explanation
From the folks at NFATCA, may fuck be upon them, top of page 4
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:44:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/17/2016 5:44:48 PM EST by governmentman]
I wonder if that was a significant part of the goal in all this, eForms made it too easy for the rabble to get NFA items. This way they could axe it without drawing attention to the motive. Or maybe I need to buy less tinfoil
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:53:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By governmentman:
I wonder if that was a significant part of the goal in all this, eForms made it too easy for the rabble to get NFA items.
View Quote


It effectively kills eForms, gets BATFE off the hook from ever bringing back eForm 4 (it won't be needed anymore, now will it), and should slow down the spread of NFA due to increased wait times and decreased ease of submission.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:55:21 PM EST
Wait until Trusts are somehow forced out...
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:55:40 PM EST
Better get off my ass and eform some suppressors.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:56:19 PM EST
Oh gosh, crimes involving NFA items must have risen. Golly. I understand. So now all applications require a fingerprint and photo. It is only fair considering how often NFA items are lost, or used by criminals. Applicants must aren't required to go through enough hoops. There are too many loopholes. It is simply common sense.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:57:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Phoenix_III:
Wait until Trusts are somehow forced out...
View Quote


You mean wait until July 13th, 2016?

eForms will cease to be of any use to non-FFLs on that day.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:57:26 PM EST
FATF and fuck all liberals.

Even more of a reason to get behind pro-2A politicians.

I'm a Cruz guy.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 5:58:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mancat:
Oh gosh, crimes involving NFA items must have risen. Golly. I understand. So now all applications require a fingerprint and photo. It is only fair considering how often NFA items are lost, or used by criminals. Applicants must aren't required to go through enough hoops. There are too many loopholes. It is simply common sense.
View Quote
Bloods and Crips might incorporate or form a Gang Trust.

Got to keep dangerous WMD out of hands of domestic terrorists, right?
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:00:15 PM EST
I received two approvals in the last two days. Three more should be approved in the next couple weeks
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:00:43 PM EST
Well...looks like my dream of obtaining some NFA toys won't happen. Because by the time I can move to free state 41F will have been in effect for a few months.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:04:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheTallest:
Well...looks like my dream of obtaining some NFA toys won't happen. Because by the time I can move to free state 41F will have been in effect for a few months.
View Quote

Why?

While I don't like having to get photos and fingerprints 41P will actually make it easier for individuals to purchase NFA and if you're trust is written in a manner that there aren't more than a few people or just you as a responsible person it isn't that big of a deal there either.


Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:06:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:

Why?


While I don't like having to get photos and fingerprints 41P will actually make it easier for individuals to purchase NFA and if you're trust is written in a manner that there aren't more than a few people or just you as a responsible person it isn't that big of a deal there either.




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Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
Originally Posted By TheTallest:
Well...looks like my dream of obtaining some NFA toys won't happen. Because by the time I can move to free state 41F will have been in effect for a few months.

Why?


While I don't like having to get photos and fingerprints 41P will actually make it easier for individuals to purchase NFA and if you're trust is written in a manner that there aren't more than a few people or just you as a responsible person it isn't that big of a deal there either.






Because being that I currently live in a ban state I'm used to being disappointed so I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:12:08 PM EST
Eforms is a steaming pile of horse shit.

That being said I hope to use it at least one more time in the coming months.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:14:47 PM EST
Cruz or Trump should get on the air and said if they are president that all NFA times will be 1 month or less.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:41:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By governmentman:
I wonder if that was a significant part of the goal in all this, eForms made it too easy for the rabble to get NFA items. This way they could axe it without drawing attention to the motive. Or maybe I need to buy less tinfoil
View Quote



That is exactly the intent.

A right delayed is a right denied.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:42:22 PM EST
I fucking hate the ATF. Every last one of them.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:45:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By c7aea15:
Eforms is a steaming pile of horse shit.

That being said I hope to use it at least one more time in the coming months.
View Quote


It's a pile of shit, but I'll still miss it.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:47:24 PM EST
Paper forms are pretty easy...


I've done now... 4 paper form 4's and 1 form 1 efile. Only about 5 minutes difference...
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 6:47:26 PM EST
I especially hate that those nutless assholes can just change the rules. No law, no congressional oversight, nothing. They just arbitrarily make life harder on gun owners.


fuck them. I'd be fine if every last one of them died of ass cancer.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:04:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By governmentman:
I wonder if that was a significant part of the goal in all this, eForms made it too easy for the rabble to get NFA items. This way they could axe it without drawing attention to the motive. Or maybe I need to buy less tinfoil
View Quote


Well, they're the mutherfuckers that CREATED eforms, so they ought to have to live with their baby.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:06:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FredMan:


Well, they're the mutherfuckers that CREATED eforms, so they ought to have to live with their baby.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FredMan:
Originally Posted By governmentman:
I wonder if that was a significant part of the goal in all this, eForms made it too easy for the rabble to get NFA items. This way they could axe it without drawing attention to the motive. Or maybe I need to buy less tinfoil


Well, they're the mutherfuckers that CREATED eforms, so they ought to have to live with their baby.


They seem more like the type to leave the baby in a nearby dumpster.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:07:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Foxtrot08:
Paper forms are pretty easy...


I've done now... 4 paper form 4's and 1 form 1 efile. Only about 5 minutes difference...
View Quote
When I had a F1 kicked back due to a clerical error I got the refund on my credit card promptly, within a day or so. That was nice...
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:12:10 PM EST
Meh, back to paper. And more dead trees.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:14:51 PM EST
I'm so confused.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:19:39 PM EST
Makes no difference to me. I don't own any NFA stuff and can't afford to.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 7:21:24 PM EST
As long as I can fill out a form and they send me the stamp I don't care.

My local sheriff hates liberals.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 8:05:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
Meh, back to paper. And more dead trees.
View Quote


Easy come, easy go, right?
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 8:08:13 PM EST
This entire NFA shit needs to go away.

I just had to pay $200 and wait who knows how long to get my Turkish Zenith MP5 knock off SBR'ed. It was a minute to have the pin pulled, stock put on, pin put in. Bam my pistol was turned into an SBR, now I must wait.

Here in WA our SBR stuff got messed up so I cannot "manufacture" my own SBR. A class 7? guy did that and it cost me $125 for him to do it, but he has to do a bunch of paperwork.
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 8:18:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/17/2016 8:19:12 PM EST by cyborg543]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheTallest:
Well...looks like my dream of obtaining some NFA toys won't happen. Because by the time I can move to free state 41F will have been in effect for a few months.
View Quote



why would 41F keep you from owning NFA stuff?

it adds fingerprints to the trust option

and

removes the CLEO signoff from the individual option.


I prefer the individual ownership option, so 41f is a plus for me. it just trims off the CLEO signoff

it was a non-issue for me anyway, my local CLEO would sign off on a nuclear weapon


fingerprints and photos

wow, what an insurmountable barrier to owning an NFA item

that's like 20 minutes out of your life that you'll never get back again.



WHY ARE YOU GUYS ALWAYS SO PESSIMISTIC AND DRAMATIC ABOUT STUFF?

EVERYDAY IS DOOMSDAY ON ARF GD
Link Posted: 2/17/2016 8:19:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheTallest:
Well...looks like my dream of obtaining some NFA toys won't happen. Because by the time I can move to free state 41F will have been in effect for a few months.
View Quote



Doesn't understand 41F.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 5:32:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FP2000H:
Makes no difference to me. I don't own any NFA stuff and can't afford to.
View Quote


Are you handy with tools? Do you have access to drill press and a socket set? Perhaps even a drill and a steady hand? Did you know that Home Depot often has displays where you can give cordless drills a test run? Consider the $100 308 Suppressor. Seriously, a simple maglite sized steel tube with a 1/2x28 threaded end cap, a through drilled end cap, engraving (your atf form 4 info) and baffles formed from freeze plugs will rock your ar world.

I refuse to be held responsible for any members who go bankrupt filing tax stamps


Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:03:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kubota3430:
This entire NFA shit needs to go away.

I just had to pay $200 and wait who knows how long to get my Turkish Zenith MP5 knock off SBR'ed. It was a minute to have the pin pulled, stock put on, pin put in. Bam my pistol was turned into an SBR, now I must wait.

Here in WA our SBR stuff got messed up so I cannot "manufacture" my own SBR. A class 7? guy did that and it cost me $125 for him to do it, but he has to do a bunch of paperwork.
View Quote


With Scalia gone and a democrat appointee in his place pretty likely, that is unfortunately getting more and more remote by the day
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:24:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/18/2016 6:28:38 AM EST by goloud]
Whatever happens, Form 3's need to return to EFORMS and be instantaneous. That will save everyone time.

It is mind blowing,however, that they can almost intentionally cause delays and not feel any repercussions. It makes my head hurt.

This whole NFA business should be an OTC deal. Especially suppressors.

DO NOT give up on owning NFA. Buy more. Otherwise they win.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:27:10 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
I'm so confused.
View Quote


Same here.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:35:46 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FP2000H:
Makes no difference to me. I don't own any NFA stuff and can't afford to.
View Quote

That is a really shitty attitude. I never bought m855 or 7n6 ammo but is sure as hell gave a shit and contacted my reps. We won on m855 and lost on 7n6. If we all adopted your attitude we would be in the same boat as Australia is in.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:46:36 AM EST
All of this 41f nonsense could be dealt with so easily if they just did e-NICS checks on each member of the trust. Boom, problem solved.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:50:13 AM EST
I don't understand all the changes to be honest. I just thought if you had a trust then you have to send in fingerprint cards after July for all the people on it. Now the e-forms is going....?
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:51:46 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
I don't understand all the changes to be honest. I just thought if you had a trust then you have to send in fingerprint cards after July for all the people on it. Now the e-forms is going....?
View Quote



No way to upload fingerprints and photos at the moment...
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:55:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/18/2016 6:55:54 AM EST by Ben_Shockley]
The thing that pisses me off is that once again Republicans control both houses of Congress and literally nothing will be done to stop the Obama administration. They wonder why people like Trump are so popular. It boggles my mind how the GOPe claims they fight for us yet every time they assume their position as controlled opposition and roll over.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 6:57:02 AM EST
I like the way they are ignoring the 2-yr clearance stated in the reg. Someone at ATF is over-reaching.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:01:50 AM EST
eForms is being replaced eventually. They'll probably include ability to accept digital fingerprints in the replacement. Of course it will be glitchy as hell and won't work 75% of the time, but the option will likely be there.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:12:52 AM EST
The Hail Mary that is the Hearing Protection Act gives me some hope. I honestly wish the republicans would attach that to some other huge necessary bill just as a big fuck you to the gov. But they won't.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:23:38 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goloud:



No way to upload fingerprints and photos at the moment...
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Originally Posted By goloud:
Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
I don't understand all the changes to be honest. I just thought if you had a trust then you have to send in fingerprint cards after July for all the people on it. Now the e-forms is going....?



No way to upload fingerprints and photos at the moment...



Why couldn't they be scanned and uploaded? Just like the trust?
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:23:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MTSNIPER:



Doesn't understand 41F.
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Originally Posted By MTSNIPER:
Originally Posted By TheTallest:
Well...looks like my dream of obtaining some NFA toys won't happen. Because by the time I can move to free state 41F will have been in effect for a few months.



Doesn't understand 41F.

You're right. Why is that so surprising? I live in fucking NJ and am barely aloud to own firearms let alone NFA stuff. I don't even understand the eForm because I'm not allowed to own any NFA stuff.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:27:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hihobrian:



Why couldn't they be scanned and uploaded? Just like the trust?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hihobrian:
Originally Posted By goloud:
Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
I don't understand all the changes to be honest. I just thought if you had a trust then you have to send in fingerprint cards after July for all the people on it. Now the e-forms is going....?



No way to upload fingerprints and photos at the moment...



Why couldn't they be scanned and uploaded? Just like the trust?


They have to be original/quality so they can be run against criminal databases. Because we are potential criminals us NFA buyers.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:28:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hihobrian:


Why couldn't they be scanned and uploaded? Just like the trust?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hihobrian:
Originally Posted By goloud:
Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
I don't understand all the changes to be honest. I just thought if you had a trust then you have to send in fingerprint cards after July for all the people on it. Now the e-forms is going....?


No way to upload fingerprints and photos at the moment...


Why couldn't they be scanned and uploaded? Just like the trust?


I doubt they'd accept a scanned copy. But there's no reason you couldn't upload digital fingerprints.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:32:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By Undefined:
eForm 4 has been gone for some time, and now no more eForm 1's after 41F goes into effect (7/13/16). None. We're back to paper from here on out.

ATF changed their mind on the 24 month prior approval certification section of 41F, even though it is going into the Code of Federal Regulations that way, and will be requiring fingerprints and photographs for every form 1 or form 4 submission. You can't submit a FD-258 Fingerprint card through eForms...

It was fun while it lasted.

eForm 1 - 8/1/13 - 7/13/16



SilencerShop's Explanation
Prince Law Explanation
From the folks at NFATCA, may fuck be upon them, top of page 4
View Quote



Yes, fuck NFATCA and that bootlicking, creeper Jeff Folloder.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:33:19 AM EST
In before "will not comply" and "club fed" comments?
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:57:00 AM EST
Ccw already has fingerprints on file

Why can't they just have a ccw ID for those that have it

Fbho
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 8:22:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/18/2016 9:08:19 AM EST by JIMBEAM]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goloud:


They have to be original/quality so they can be run against criminal databases. Because we are potential criminals us NFA buyers.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goloud:
Originally Posted By hihobrian:
Originally Posted By goloud:
Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
I don't understand all the changes to be honest. I just thought if you had a trust then you have to send in fingerprint cards after July for all the people on it. Now the e-forms is going....?



No way to upload fingerprints and photos at the moment...



Why couldn't they be scanned and uploaded? Just like the trust?


They have to be original/quality so they can be run against criminal databases. Because we are potential criminals us NFA buyers.


Because criminals love to do paperwork and create a trail leading directly to them. They act as if they can't prosecute a criminal with NFA item if they have a trust.
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