So, today was a typical Sunday, sittin' at Cooter Brown's and having my Sunday diet deviation of hot wings and McEwan's Scotch Ale.  As usual, I was talking to my good friend Ganesh.  Ganesh, as you might imagine, was not born here, but rather in Bombay (as us Americans spell it anyway.)  He does own a business here in NOLA though, has been in this country for several years, and when his brother comes here from Bombay he insists on speaking only English to him and having his brother speak only English to him.  The only exceptions to this are the increasingly rare times that Ganesh does not know the word in English, in which case he will ask me, my girlfriend, or fellow friends Peter, Patrick, Art, Dale, Ron, and others-----he will even call me on his cell if he is not around someone to ask the proper word.  Ganesh's most fervant desire at present is to be something many of us here take for granted---he wants to be a citizen of this great country.  (He takes the test early next year by the way.)


So.  We were talking, and he asked when my girlfriend's birthday was (as in month and day,) and I responded by saying "'A day that shall live in infamy.'"  He responded with "No, I can't have missed it.....oh, sorry, was thinking of D-Day, my mistake, OK."  I should note that both I and Peter gave him some ribbing for his mix up.

Sitting near us was our friend.........."Mike," I shall call him "Mike."
Mike said "What?  When is her birthday?"
I said again "'A day, that shall *live* in *infamy.*'"
Mike "What day is that?"

I looked to Mike and said it again.  Nothing.  I then asked him what day was D-Day.  He said he had no idea.  I asked him what year we won our independence from Great Britain.  No idea.  I asked him who he voted for in the last presidential election.  He said he didn't vote in it.

As I sat next to a man who wants little more than for his business to do well, to get laid from time to time, and above all, to be a citizen of my country, I had to accept the fact that on the other side of Ganesh was a man (who works at Cooter's I will add,) who knows nothing about our history, and doesn't vote because he "doesn't care who is president" or, apparently, since he said after that he doesn't vote for Senators or Representatives either, who represents his district or state in the legislative branch.

Me and Peter (an attorney with very good grasp of law and the U.S. Constitution,) took back our ribbing of Ganesh over his momentary confusion of 6-6-44 and Pearl Harbor with somewhat red faces.



Side note:  Ganesh can quote the U.S. Constitution almost verbatim, and knows every amendment thereof.  Mike was unable to tell me what the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, or 14th amendments were.
Side side note:  Ganesh is my friend, but he and I differ on the 2nd.  He thinks it should be re-written to explicitly insure that we have the right to own and carry revolvers and pistols of any caliber and capacity, concealed or open, and to own and carry shotguns.  He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only.

Not my ideal, but better than many, I gotta say.

Quoted: He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only.

Ganesh doesn't sound like a bad guy, but he definitely knows nothing about hunting. Rifles are incredibly important for it.

Quoted: Quoted: He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Ganesh doesn't sound like a bad guy, but he definitely knows nothing about hunting. Rifles are incredibly important for it.

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess India doesn't have a firearms hunting culture.  At least not for the common man.

Despite popular belief around here new (legal) immigrants are often a nations most ardent patriots. After all they chose to come here often facing much hardship to do so.

What? The date that shall live in infamy was 12/07/41!

I think your friend is trying to find a compromise between the firearm ownership laws in his former country and of this country.

It makes me sad and disappointed that there aren't many people in this country that know let alone care about it.  It's a damn shame.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Ganesh doesn't sound like a bad guy, but he definitely knows nothing about hunting. Rifles are incredibly important for it. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess India doesn't have a firearms hunting culture.  At least not for the common man.

Good point.

We have the same problem here. Most people suck at history.

Quoted: What? The date that shall live in infamy was 12/07/41!

FTW!!!!


"Yesterday, December 7, 1941 — a date which will live in infamy — the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.
The United States was at peace with that nation, and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with its government and its Emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific."

Quoted: I think your friend is trying to find a compromise between the firearm ownership laws in his former country and of this country. It makes me sad and disappointed that there aren't many people in this country that know let alone care about it.  It's a damn shame.

Dunno--pretty sure regular folk cannot own handguns in India.

Quoted: Quoted: I think your friend is trying to find a compromise between the firearm ownership laws in his former country and of this country. It makes me sad and disappointed that there aren't many people in this country that know let alone care about it.  It's a damn shame. Dunno--pretty sure regular folk cannot own handguns in India.

I know.

I think only police/military and Maharajas and their family can own or otherwise handle firearms.

Quoted: What? The date that shall live in infamy was 12/07/41!

Ouch. that has to hurt the OP after his tirade

Actually maybe he was just asking the D-Day date as a different question. Yeah that will work.

McEwan's Scotch Ale.

The BEST EVER.



HH

No

no never, even when I was in Germany. I never feel embarrassed for my Country.

Quoted: Quoted: What? The date that shall live in infamy was 12/07/41! Ouch. that has to hurt the OP after his tirade Actually maybe he was just asking the D-Day date as a different question. Yeah that will work.

Negative ghost rider-------------I know my GF's birthday, and I know darn well and good when Pearl was hit versus when Manuel Curry, 29th Infantry, who I know personally, and who serves this very day as a New Orleans Police Officer, went ashore in France many moons ago.

Quoted: What? The date that shall live in infamy was 12/07/41!

Thats what I thought...did I miss somthing?

Quoted: no never, even when I was in Germany. I never feel embarrassed for my Country.

Good point.  I should have rephrased it------"Ever felt embarrased by the morons who are Americans purely by birthright and deserve it less than others?"

ask your friend that when the government tries to oppress it's people, (as every government eventually does in time) how the people will defend against such acts with just pistols and shotguns, against machinguns and rifles???

Quoted: What? The date that shall live in infamy was 12/07/41!

Quoted: Quoted: He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Ganesh doesn't sound like a bad guy, but he definitely knows nothing about hunting. Rifles are incredibly important for it.

Or liberty. Rifles are the most effective weapon for taking game, defending your life, and fighting tyranny. The 2nd Amendment is the "overthrow the government" clause. You can't do that if you've got nothing but shotguns and pistols.

Every nation has uninformed residents.  We aren't any different.

Quoted: ask your friend that when the government tries to oppress it's people, (as every government eventually does in time) how the people will defend against such acts with just pistols and shotguns, against machinguns and rifles???

Chill stormwalker------he is closer than most we deal with anti-wise, yes?  I work on him slowly, when we go shooting, and we will see what happens when he becomes a citizen.

Methinks telling him off as a moron when he believes in a right to carry a handgun concealed or open for self defense will likely make him think gun-rights types are loonies---------------not to mention killing a friendship.

As a pursuit driving instructor once told me, to good effect, "Slow down, you'll go faster."

Quoted: ask your friend that when the government tries to oppress it's people, (as every government eventually does in time) how the people will defend against such acts with just pistols and shotguns, against machinguns and rifles???

Tell him that, but also add, as much as using violence is regrettable, it is sometimes very necessary.  We don't all have the patience of Ghandi, and fewer lives may be lost with better results if you fight.

Umm no,, never.

Especially in front of a foreigner, why do you think he's here?

Because America sucks or because his country does?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Ganesh doesn't sound like a bad guy, but he definitely knows nothing about hunting. Rifles are incredibly important for it. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess India doesn't have a firearms hunting culture.  At least not for the common man. Good point.

IIRC since most of the population is Hindu, they protect animals very, very seriously. Part of their religion is the belief that people come back after they die in the form of an animal, they regard the killing of an animal as the killing of a human. Therefore, no hunting at all.

That's what I heard, I don't know if it is true or not. If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Ganesh doesn't sound like a bad guy, but he definitely knows nothing about hunting. Rifles are incredibly important for it. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess India doesn't have a firearms hunting culture.  At least not for the common man. Good point. IIRC since most of the population is Hindu, they protect animals very, very seriously. Part of their religion is the belief that people come back after they die in the form of an animal, they regard the killing of an animal as the killing of a human. Therefore, no hunting at all. That's what I heard, I don't know if it is true or not. If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

No, that's about it.  Most are vegetarian because of this.

Citizenship that is earned is sometimes more respected.

I will pass on the Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor comment this time

yes, everyday.

watch the news
read the paper
watch what people do everyday


I'm proud to be an American, but I live in shame to see who are "Americans" and what it has become.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Ganesh doesn't sound like a bad guy, but he definitely knows nothing about hunting. Rifles are incredibly important for it. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess India doesn't have a firearms hunting culture.  At least not for the common man. Good point. IIRC since most of the population is Hindu, they protect animals very, very seriously. Part of their religion is the belief that people come back after they die in the form of an animal, they regard the killing of an animal as the killing of a human. Therefore, no hunting at all. That's what I heard, I don't know if it is true or not. If I am wrong, someone please correct me. No, that's about it.  Most are vegetarian because of this.

So that would explain why he hasn't been hunting, or has no idea what it is like.

I think he would change his opinion if he was invited to go hunting and could really see how it is.

Quoted: Quoted: ask your friend that when the government tries to oppress it's people, (as every government eventually does in time) how the people will defend against such acts with just pistols and shotguns, against machinguns and rifles??? Tell him that, but also add, as much as using violence is regrettable, it is sometimes very necessary.  We don't all have the patience of Ghandi, and fewer lives may be lost with better results if you fight.

Ghandi supported Hitler.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Ganesh doesn't sound like a bad guy, but he definitely knows nothing about hunting. Rifles are incredibly important for it. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess India doesn't have a firearms hunting culture.  At least not for the common man. Good point. IIRC since most of the population is Hindu, they protect animals very, very seriously. Part of their religion is the belief that people come back after they die in the form of an animal, they regard the killing of an animal as the killing of a human. Therefore, no hunting at all. That's what I heard, I don't know if it is true or not. If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

Sort of-ish.....................Ganesh ate his first cheeseburger on the plane to D.C.

Quoted: Quoted: ask your friend that when the government tries to oppress it's people, (as every government eventually does in time) how the people will defend against such acts with just pistols and shotguns, against machinguns and rifles??? Chill stormwalker------he is closer than most we deal with anti-wise, yes?  I work on him slowly, when we go shooting, and we will see what happens when he becomes a citizen. Methinks telling him off as a moron when he believes in a right to carry a handgun concealed or open for self defense will likely make him think gun-rights types are loonies---------------not to mention killing a friendship. As a pursuit driving instructor once told me, to good effect, "Slow down, you'll go faster."

+1

He, like many immigrants to this country, probably came here because he believes America to be a beacon of liberty to the world.  He most likely cannot conceive of any circumstance where the citizens of this country would have to take up arms against their government.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ask your friend that when the government tries to oppress it's people, (as every government eventually does in time) how the people will defend against such acts with just pistols and shotguns, against machinguns and rifles??? Chill stormwalker------he is closer than most we deal with anti-wise, yes?  I work on him slowly, when we go shooting, and we will see what happens when he becomes a citizen. Methinks telling him off as a moron when he believes in a right to carry a handgun concealed or open for self defense will likely make him think gun-rights types are loonies---------------not to mention killing a friendship. As a pursuit driving instructor once told me, to good effect, "Slow down, you'll go faster." +1 He, like many immigrants to this country, probably came here because he believes America to be a beacon of liberty to the world.  He most likely cannot conceive of any circumstance where the citizens of this country would have to take up arms against their government.

Absolutley.  He has trouble with the very idea, since he sees us with such rose-colored glasses.

Quoted: Citizenship that is earned is sometimes more respected. I will pass on the Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor comment this time

Eh---out of place here---no one claimed that was so.

What I tell my Indian friends is that we both threw off the yoke of tyranny and the one that held the leash were the same members of an empire. We are both now citizens, not subjects!

Quoted: Side side note:  Ganesh is my friend, but he and I differ on the 2nd.  He thinks it should be re-written to explicitly insure that we have the right to own and carry revolvers and pistols of any caliber and capacity, concealed or open, and to own and carry shotguns.  He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Not my ideal, but better than many, I gotta say.

I now regret including this portion of my post.  Ganesh is a good guy with a stronger grasp of American history and the U.S. Constitution than most born here "Americans" I know.  That is the point here.  That my friend "Mike" had the good fortune to be born to some Westbanker and is a full citizern with no effort who knows nothing about the nation or its history, and who doesn't vote, compared to a man who wants badly to be an American.  

(Like another friend of mine, who we call Mike because we cannot pronounce his real name [to my shame, since he speaks English, if brokenly] who in ten days will take a trip to India........not to visit friends........not to conduct business..............he has nothing pressing to require his attention there................he just wants to go there as a tourist.  Yep, he passed his crap, and is now 100% American like me.  And all I did was be born............this guy worked for it hard, and is so dang proud of it he is going back to India for a week purely to be an American there.  And on a side note, last week some shithead described as a black male with a mask, and so likely an "American" went into his store and robbed him at gunpoint of about $600.  Welcome to the USA brother indeed.)

Quoted: Quoted: Side side note:  Ganesh is my friend, but he and I differ on the 2nd.  He thinks it should be re-written to explicitly insure that we have the right to own and carry revolvers and pistols of any caliber and capacity, concealed or open, and to own and carry shotguns.  He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Not my ideal, but better than many, I gotta say. I now regret including this portion of my post.  Ganesh is a good guy with a stronger grasp of American history and the U.S. Constitution than most born here "Americans" I know.  That is the point here.  That my friend "Mike" had the good fortune to be born to some Westbanker and is a full citizern with no effort who knows nothing about the nation or its history, and who doesn't vote, compared to a man who wants badly to be an American.   (Like another friend of mine, who we call Mike because we cannot pronounce his real name [to my shame, since he speaks English, if brokenly] who in ten days will take a trip to India........not to visit friends........not to conduct business..............he has nothing pressing to require his attention there................he just wants to go there as a tourist.  Yep, he passed his crap, and is now 100% American like me.  And all I did was be born............this guy worked for it hard, and is so dang proud of it he is going back to India for a week purely to be an American there.  And on a side note, last week some shithead described as a black male with a mask, and so likely an "American" went into his store and robbed him at gunpoint of about $600.  Welcome to the USA brother indeed.)

He needs a gun.

Quoted: I asked him what year we won our independence from Great Britain.  No idea.   Not my ideal, but better than many, I gotta say.

Just in case some didn't know, the year was 1783, not to be confused with the year we declared independance, 1776.

I have been to India many times.  There are hundreds of millions of people there as poorly educated as your friend Mike.  Literacy rates are not that high and at least half the population will never read even a single book in their lives.  

In the US we are exposed to the 5 percent of Indians who are the smartest or best-educated.  They have lots of dirt farmers there and ditch diggers (called "coolies" by the locals), too.  

Quoted: Ever feel embarassed to be an American?

No.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Side side note:  Ganesh is my friend, but he and I differ on the 2nd.  He thinks it should be re-written to explicitly insure that we have the right to own and carry revolvers and pistols of any caliber and capacity, concealed or open, and to own and carry shotguns.  He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Not my ideal, but better than many, I gotta say. I now regret including this portion of my post.  Ganesh is a good guy with a stronger grasp of American history and the U.S. Constitution than most born here "Americans" I know.  That is the point here.  That my friend "Mike" had the good fortune to be born to some Westbanker and is a full citizern with no effort who knows nothing about the nation or its history, and who doesn't vote, compared to a man who wants badly to be an American.   (Like another friend of mine, who we call Mike because we cannot pronounce his real name [to my shame, since he speaks English, if brokenly] who in ten days will take a trip to India........not to visit friends........not to conduct business..............he has nothing pressing to require his attention there................he just wants to go there as a tourist.  Yep, he passed his crap, and is now 100% American like me.  And all I did was be born............this guy worked for it hard, and is so dang proud of it he is going back to India for a week purely to be an American there.  And on a side note, last week some shithead described as a black male with a mask, and so likely an "American" went into his store and robbed him at gunpoint of about $600.  Welcome to the USA brother indeed.) He needs a gun.

His Glock model 19 did little good in the drawer he kept it in until this incident drove home what I have been telling him for years.  (He now carries it on him at work.)  His Winchester 1300 Defender, S&W 19, S&W 52 (yes, he has a 52,) S&W 629, and Ruger MKIII also failed to protect him.


He now knows a bit more about the value of carrying on one's person.

(Side note:  I watched the tapes...............he grabbed a customer and used her as a hostage in the robbery................Ganesh could have done nothing without hitting her evenif he had had a weapon on his side.  Innocent woman > $600.)

In short, no. I've never been embarrassed to be an American. In fact, quite the opposite.

I have, however, been embarrassed by other Americans - on several occasions.

Freedom can make for some pretty damn idiotic "citizens", that's for sure. Apathy is the greatest enemy this nation will ever know, IM-not so-HO.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Side side note:  Ganesh is my friend, but he and I differ on the 2nd.  He thinks it should be re-written to explicitly insure that we have the right to own and carry revolvers and pistols of any caliber and capacity, concealed or open, and to own and carry shotguns.  He thinks we should be barred from owning rifles, because handguns and shotguns would suffice for self defense, hunting, sport shooting, and the like, but that machine guns (real definition not ATF definition) and rifles should be possessed only by police and military units, or stored at police stations for rifle target shooters and those hunters who show a need for them--released during practice, shooting competitions, or hunting season only. Not my ideal, but better than many, I gotta say. I now regret including this portion of my post.  Ganesh is a good guy with a stronger grasp of American history and the U.S. Constitution than most born here "Americans" I know.  That is the point here.  That my friend "Mike" had the good fortune to be born to some Westbanker and is a full citizern with no effort who knows nothing about the nation or its history, and who doesn't vote, compared to a man who wants badly to be an American.   (Like another friend of mine, who we call Mike because we cannot pronounce his real name [to my shame, since he speaks English, if brokenly] who in ten days will take a trip to India........not to visit friends........not to conduct business..............he has nothing pressing to require his attention there................he just wants to go there as a tourist.  Yep, he passed his crap, and is now 100% American like me.  And all I did was be born............this guy worked for it hard, and is so dang proud of it he is going back to India for a week purely to be an American there.  And on a side note, last week some shithead described as a black male with a mask, and so likely an "American" went into his store and robbed him at gunpoint of about $600.  Welcome to the USA brother indeed.) He needs a gun. His Glock model 19 did little good in the drawer he kept it in until this incident drove home what I have been telling him for years.  (He now carries it on him at work.)  His Winchester 1300 Defender, S&W 19, S&W 52 (yes, he has a 52,) S&W 629, and Ruger MKIII also failed to protect him. He now knows a bit more about the value of carrying on one's person. (Side note:  I watched the tapes...............he grabbed a customer and used her as a hostage in the robbery................Ganesh could have done nothing without hitting her evenif he had had a weapon on his side.  Innocent woman > $600.)

If it was a hostage type thing, he didn't have a choice. You are right, a life is greater than money.

But I'm glad to see that he carries as a result of the incident. Some people would say that there should be MORE gun control. Then it never would have happened.