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Posted: 8/29/2005 10:01:32 AM EDT
The threads about LEO pulling people over to see "loaded magazines" sitting in center consoles resulting in requests for car searches and locking people in the backs of cruisers has piqued my interest... Let's hear your interesting stories if you have ever declined such a request. I am very curious about times this has happened when the LEO was not content with a "no thanks" type response.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:06:16 AM EDT
I've never had one ask me before.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:06:32 AM EDT
No...if I did they'd only hold me until they could get a warrant.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:10:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 10:10:53 AM EDT by paramarine326]
No, but I always figured that if asked I would say no, even if I had nothing that would get me arrested. Part of this is out of principle, part out of curiosity to see what they would do.

I talked to my cop buddy and he said that if you are polite and respectufl, and tell the police officer that you know your rights and are excercising them out of principle that more cops than you think will back down if they are just on a fishing expedition (they don't want to have to deal with your complaints to the department when they find nothing).

Of course, if you are a jerk about it, or if they actually suspect you have something (drugs, weapons, etc.) the chances are much higher that they will search anyway.

I'm curious what other LEOs on this board think about that.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:10:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:12:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 10:18:31 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:13:32 AM EDT
Every time.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:14:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By rob78:
No...if I did they'd only hold me until they could get a warrant.



Not true, 99% of the time they're just fishing and will let you go if you say no. One of my buddies actually used to give classes at the police academy on getting people to consent to searches, though since then the courts in NY have tightened up on the police trying to talk every speeding into letting them paw through his car.



Also isn't there a time limit that they can detain you? I think the ACLU has a credit card sized thing with all this info. Most times i do believe the warrant would take lionger than this limit.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:17:05 AM EDT
I've had my car searched twice. They have never even asked me if they could search, nor could I imagine any probable cause that they could have had. I'd have filed a complaint, but I like my dog.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:19:09 AM EDT
Sort of OT but I have refused field sobriety (sp) tests several times. In Arkansas as long as you will volunteer have your BAC tested chemically then they can not make you take the field tests. It causes a lot of crap but they have breathalyzers in their cars and in some cases on them. I'm not wasting my time dealing with stupid crap like a field sobriety test when they could be done wasting my time in 45 seconds.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:19:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 10:20:02 AM EDT by distributor_of_pain]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By rob78:
No...if I did they'd only hold me until they could get a warrant.



Not true, 99% of the time they're just fishing and will let you go if you say no. One of my buddies actually used to give classes at the police academy on getting people to consent to searches, though since then the courts in NY have tightened up on the police trying to talk every speeding into letting them paw through his car.

Truckers used to get caught with pistols in NY that way. "Let me see the registration, insurance , your log book and I have to inspect your pistol" Some guys would hand the pistol over, then have a fun filled phone call to the boss about being in a NY jail with a felony weapon charge.



Nothing like a cop trying to get an honest hard working joe, who wants to protect himself and go home to his family at night, a felony record so that he can no longer vote or own firearms.

That was really clever. I love the way he tricked that guy into handing over the pistol so he could ruin his life over a bullshit law that shouldn't even exist!

ETA: WHAT A HERO!
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:21:14 AM EDT
At my department we had to get a written consent form signed before we could search. This does not include the obvious joint etc sticking out of the ash tray.

My first consent to search form I did was a guy who I stopped for DUI. He was not drunk. I asked for permission. He granted then I filled out the form, read the form to him, asked him if he understood what I said, asked him to read the search form and sign it.

He read it. Then right before he signed he asked me what would happen if he refused. I told him nothing would happen and we would part ways. He signed the search form.

I sat in his car opend the center console and right on top was some cheap silver pistol and a bag of pot right under it.

Hooked him up for pistol without a permit and possession.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:22:32 AM EDT
I decliend car search twice. I seem to always get asked. might be this:



and if they want to search they can go get a warrant. Big whoop. I don't lie, I'm not disrespectful at all. I just know my rights and know the EXACT point when and where the LEO has gone too far. Just point that out, and they usually leave you alone.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:24:13 AM EDT
Every time.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:24:49 AM EDT
a search of my home would be interesting. They'd need like 4 ATF secretaries and a week or two just to do inventory. Guess I'd put away the CS grenades and gas mask if they knock.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:24:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By darwindog:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By rob78:
No...if I did they'd only hold me until they could get a warrant.



Not true, 99% of the time they're just fishing and will let you go if you say no. One of my buddies actually used to give classes at the police academy on getting people to consent to searches, though since then the courts in NY have tightened up on the police trying to talk every speeding into letting them paw through his car.



Also isn't there a time limit that they can detain you? I think the ACLU has a credit card sized thing with all this info. Most times i do believe the warrant would take lionger than this limit.



Correct.

If you refuse a search, they cannot detain you just to get a search dog to your car. If they managed to get a dog to the car BEFORE they are done with the traffic stop (I guess there is some "reasonable" amount of time a traffic stop is expected to take, depending on what they pulled you over for - obviously some grey area here) - and the dog alerts on the car, THEN they can search without your consent.

Otherwise, unless there is something threatening/illegal in plain view in your car, the police cannot legally search it without your premission.


The ACLU card is very nice (and can be dowloaded and printed out - somewhere on their site). It's often a good reminded of what your rights - and obligations - are during a traffic stop.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:26:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:27:59 AM EDT
I have been asked 3 times. Said no 3 times. When asked why I said " You are wasting my time and yours. Yes, I have a loaded gun in my car, it is mine and I have a permit that allows me to have it." I was never given any further trouble. I am always 100% polite.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:28:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CrashAxis:
I'd have filed a complaint, but I like my dog.



LMAO!!

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:30:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:34:46 AM EDT
When I was in college I was on my way back from DC and was in VA headed south on 95 at about 3AM. I was stone cold sober, but had two drunk asleep friends in the car. I was in the left hand lane and going maybe 5 miles over the posted limit, when I saw some headlights coming up fast behind me, and I mean fast, possibly a good bit over 100 MPH.

Suspecting that it was a drunk behind me I yanked it into the right lane to get out of his way. Turns out it was a VA State Trooper or whatever they call State Police there. He pulled me over for the improper lane change. He had me out of the car for a sobriety check. He did a quick eye check and decided I wasn't drunk.

Now he went on his fishing expedition. He asked if he could search my car. I politely said no. He said that he could search anyway because all the stuff (backpacks and such) that we had in the car gave him PC. At this point I was pissed, but calm. I told him "I do not give you permission to search my car, but I will not try to prevent you from searching. We'll just see how that holds up in court."

He looked at me a little slack-jawed, handed my license to me, and "Have a nice night."

No ticket. Stood my ground. Defended my rights. Possibly my finest hour.

Cabby
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:47:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I've never had one ask me before.

+1
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:53:11 AM EDT
More often than not the local cops ask to search your car at illegal random searches, aka roadblocks. I've always refused but twice they still got to search my car since they found a BS excuse to tow it. Oops, it wasn't searching since they couldn't do that. They called it doing inventory. I'd like to know how it isn't legal for them to search, but as long as they call it something else, it's legal for them to do it.z
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:01:10 AM EDT
I got stopped for speeding, which I was guilty of, and the officer asked if I had anything in the car I shouldn't. I replied that I did not. Then he asked, "Mind if I look anyway?" I figured I was getting a ticket anyway so I politely said, "Yes, I do mind. It would be a waste of your time and mine." I was a little nervous but he just said, "Fair enough." It ended politely and I was on my way.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:09:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zoom:
More often than not the local cops ask to search your car at illegal random searches, aka roadblocks. I've always refused but twice they still got to search my car since they found a BS excuse to tow it. Oops, it wasn't searching since they couldn't do that. They called it doing inventory. I'd like to know how it isn't legal for them to search, but as long as they call it something else, it's legal for them to do it.z



Inventories are done so later on when someone claims that a $1000 stereo system was in the trunk the LEO's can show it was not there at the time the vehicle was impounded.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:17:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I've never had one ask me before.



Nor have I.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:19:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By zoom:
More often than not the local cops ask to search your car at illegal random searches, aka roadblocks. I've always refused but twice they still got to search my car since they found a BS excuse to tow it. Oops, it wasn't searching since they couldn't do that. They called it doing inventory. I'd like to know how it isn't legal for them to search, but as long as they call it something else, it's legal for them to do it.z



Inventories are done so later on when someone claims that a $1000 stereo system was in the trunk the LEO's can show it was not there at the time the vehicle was impounded.



But, unless zoom's vehicle was impounded, how can they do an "inventory"?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:19:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 11:31:43 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Sure, I got pulled over once for allegedly speeding (Framed by the man!). I had an unloaded Remington 700 on the back seat with the bolt open. The officer kept asking me dorky questions about where I was going to and from and asked if he could look in the car, I told him No and finally said something like "What the hell are you getting at? You're wasting both our times." That kind of rattled him and he said he thought it was weird that I was out so late at night with a rifle and he thought I might have been deer jacking, although I told him I had been hunting about 2 hours away. I pointed out that if I was going to go out deer jacking I wouldn't choose an Inifiniti sedan since I couldn't fit a deer in the trunk.

He added a few miles per hour to that ticket.



How many times do I have to remind you when driving around to put your pants on and keep the dead hookers stowed in the trunk? Sheesh.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:22:35 AM EDT
I've never been asked.

However, one time driving back into the US from Canada (B.C.), I was being quizzed by the US Customs guy. He asked if I had bought anything while in Canada. I told him all I had wer esome souvenir t-shirts and some magazines, referring to a whole stack of UK motorcycle and airplane magazines. The Customs guy stopped cold, "Pistol magazines? Rifle magazines?" I explained what I meant and he relaxed and let us go.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:24:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By zoom:
More often than not the local cops ask to search your car at illegal random searches, aka roadblocks. I've always refused but twice they still got to search my car since they found a BS excuse to tow it. Oops, it wasn't searching since they couldn't do that. They called it doing inventory. I'd like to know how it isn't legal for them to search, but as long as they call it something else, it's legal for them to do it.z



Inventories are done so later on when someone claims that a $1000 stereo system was in the trunk the LEO's can show it was not there at the time the vehicle was impounded.



But, unless zoom's vehicle was impounded, how can they do an "inventory"?



He stated the vehcile was towed.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:32:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:33:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:34:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 11:35:41 AM EDT by fadedsun]
I've been pulled over 3 times, getting 4 tickets, ALL of which have been dismissed. They were all non-moving violations-2 inspection tickets, 1 registration ticket, and a no-insurance ticket. All were dismissed too BTW


Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:37:18 AM EDT
I have never been asked, but I would like them to do it. I know there is a bunch of crap back there that I would like to find.

Picture in your head an extended cab truck with the back seat filled up to the windows with several years of mail, old paperwork, nuts, bolts, grime, oily rags, etc, etc ...well basically any trash I generate that is not food. It would just entertain me.

As amatter of fact it would probably entertain me as much as it did when the officer waited for me last time I "searched" for him. I knew somewhere, back there, was an envelope with my insurance card in it. I think the look on his face was priceless when the first three insurance envelopes I came to (mind you, none had been opened yet) had cards that had already expired. I think it took around 40 minutes before I found the current one.

Dan
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:38:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Otherwise, unless there is something threatening/illegal in plain view in your car, the police cannot legally search it without your premission.



The police can legally perform a Terry frisk of your vehicle without seeing anything "threatening" in plain sight.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:39:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:
No...if I did they'd only hold me until they could get a warrant.


They don't need a warrant to search a vehicle. I believe it's called the Carroll Doctrine.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:56:48 AM EDT
Me either, hopefully it stays that way.

FREE


Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I've never had one ask me before.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:59:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Otherwise, unless there is something threatening/illegal in plain view in your car, the police cannot legally search it without your premission.



The police can legally perform a Terry frisk of your vehicle without seeing anything "threatening" in plain sight.



What is a "Terry frisk"?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:00:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Otherwise, unless there is something threatening/illegal in plain view in your car, the police cannot legally search it without your premission.



The police can legally perform a Terry frisk of your vehicle without seeing anything "threatening" in plain sight.



What is a "Terry frisk"?



A quick pat down to see if a person has a weapon on their body.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:02:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By zoom:
More often than not the local cops ask to search your car at illegal random searches, aka roadblocks. I've always refused but twice they still got to search my car since they found a BS excuse to tow it. Oops, it wasn't searching since they couldn't do that. They called it doing inventory. I'd like to know how it isn't legal for them to search, but as long as they call it something else, it's legal for them to do it.z



Inventories are done so later on when someone claims that a $1000 stereo system was in the trunk the LEO's can show it was not there at the time the vehicle was impounded.



But, unless zoom's vehicle was impounded, how can they do an "inventory"?



He stated the vehcile was towed.



And it still reaks to high heaven. Nothing more than punishment for not being a good little subject.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:03:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By zoom:
More often than not the local cops ask to search your car at illegal random searches, aka roadblocks. I've always refused but twice they still got to search my car since they found a BS excuse to tow it. Oops, it wasn't searching since they couldn't do that. They called it doing inventory. I'd like to know how it isn't legal for them to search, but as long as they call it something else, it's legal for them to do it.z



Inventories are done so later on when someone claims that a $1000 stereo system was in the trunk the LEO's can show it was not there at the time the vehicle was impounded.



But, unless zoom's vehicle was impounded, how can they do an "inventory"?



He stated the vehcile was towed.



And it still reaks to high heaven. Nothing more than punishment for not being a good little subject.



He never did state WHY it was towed.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:06:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 12:07:26 PM EDT by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

And it still reaks to high heaven. Nothing more than punishment for not being a good little subject.



He never did state WHY it was towed.



True enough..... He could have been suspended, drunk, had no plates, or no functional lights of any kind I suppose. I don't know all the little niggles that allow for a tow.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:09:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cabby:
When I was in college I was on my way back from DC and was in VA headed south on 95 at about 3AM. I was stone cold sober, but had two drunk asleep friends in the car. I was in the left hand lane and going maybe 5 miles over the posted limit, when I saw some headlights coming up fast behind me, and I mean fast, possibly a good bit over 100 MPH.

Suspecting that it was a drunk behind me I yanked it into the right lane to get out of his way. Turns out it was a VA State Trooper or whatever they call State Police there. He pulled me over for the improper lane change. He had me out of the car for a sobriety check. He did a quick eye check and decided I wasn't drunk.

Now he went on his fishing expedition. He asked if he could search my car. I politely said no. He said that he could search anyway because all the stuff (backpacks and such) that we had in the car gave him PC. At this point I was pissed, but calm. I told him "I do not give you permission to search my car, but I will not try to prevent you from searching. We'll just see how that holds up in court."

He looked at me a little slack-jawed, handed my license to me, and "Have a nice night."

No ticket. Stood my ground. Defended my rights. Possibly my finest hour.

Cabby



I had the opposite on the bridge over the susqehanna going from VA to NY. HUGE accident on other side of divider at least 6 or 7 cop cars there, traffic on their end, rubber necking on ours. As soon as we pass accident, of course, I floor it, I';m going about 85-90 in a couple of seconds. Fast cop car and Lights go on behind me - I'm in left lane in fast traffic so I pull over to left (no shoulder) and start slowing down, he is tailgaiting me by inches the whole time. I'm sweating bullets- all of a sudden teh blarehorn gets on "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY, MOVE MOOOOOOVE MOVE" I kid you not. Couple of cars near me - the ones I had sped past initially - everyone dying of laughter. He was going across bridge to make a U turn to help out with the accident.

I thought I was toast. I think the bridge is a 45 or 55 zone too.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:12:44 PM EDT
The police must have "reasonable suspicion" prior to a terry search. The officer must articulate a reason he believes that you are armed. It can only be done if the officer believes you have a weapon and then olny a pat down of the outer clothing. A car can only be searched if the car is believed to be carrying contraband or the car itself elicits a "probable cause" that it itself is contraband.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:15:38 PM EDT
Before and after becoming a police officer, I have never been requested to search my vehicles.

I have always had Harley decals on my vehicles or riding a Harley. I usually look like a hard core biker. (Don't ask ).

Looking like a hard core biker and riding a Harley, you would think L.E.O.'s would welcome the chance to search me and/or my vehicles.

Colt_SBR
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:18:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Otherwise, unless there is something threatening/illegal in plain view in your car, the police cannot legally search it without your premission.



The police can legally perform a Terry frisk of your vehicle without seeing anything "threatening" in plain sight.



What is a "Terry frisk"?



A quick pat down to see if a person has a weapon on their body.



In addition if the subject is in a vehicle the weapons search may extend to under the front seat, unlocked glove/console compartments, bags, jackets etc. Basically anywhere within the "lunging" area of the passenger compartment but does not include locked containers.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:19:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
At my department we had to get a written consent form signed before we could search. This does not include the obvious joint etc sticking out of the ash tray.

My first consent to search form I did was a guy who I stopped for DUI. He was not drunk. I asked for permission. He granted then I filled out the form, read the form to him, asked him if he understood what I said, asked him to read the search form and sign it.

He read it. Then right before he signed he asked me what would happen if he refused. I told him nothing would happen and we would part ways. He signed the search form.

I sat in his car opend the center console and right on top was some cheap silver pistol and a bag of pot right under it.

Hooked him up for pistol without a permit and possession.



What a frikken dumbshit!
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:20:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Otherwise, unless there is something threatening/illegal in plain view in your car, the police cannot legally search it without your premission.



The police can legally perform a Terry frisk of your vehicle without seeing anything "threatening" in plain sight.




Since when can police "frisk" my vehicle?

Plus, for a Terry search, the offier has to be able to articulate SOME reason for why there is a threat.

I still submit that unless there is something IN VIEW (or in smell, or whatever) the police cannot do a legal search of your vehicle (i.e ENTER it, and start rummaging around).

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:21:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dan12:
I have never been asked, but I would like them to do it. I know there is a bunch of crap back there that I would like to find.

Picture in your head an extended cab truck with the back seat filled up to the windows with several years of mail, old paperwork, nuts, bolts, grime, oily rags, etc, etc ...well basically any trash I generate that is not food. It would just entertain me.

As amatter of fact it would probably entertain me as much as it did when the officer waited for me last time I "searched" for him. I knew somewhere, back there, was an envelope with my insurance card in it. I think the look on his face was priceless when the first three insurance envelopes I came to (mind you, none had been opened yet) had cards that had already expired. I think it took around 40 minutes before I found the current one.

Dan



That would only be funny until they dumped all your shit on the road, got out of the cab and told you clean it up. Does the ATF put your house back together after they ransack the wrong address? NO.....
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:25:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:
Know your rights pocket card (PDF File)

Know your rights phamphlet (PDF file)







Every time I see that hoopla from aclu it makes me laugh.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:26:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enemy:
The police must have "reasonable suspicion" prior to a terry search. The officer must articulate a reason he believes that you are armed. It can only be done if the officer believes you have a weapon and then olny a pat down of the outer clothing. A car can only be searched if the car is believed to be carrying contraband or the car itself elicits a "probable cause" that it itself is contraband.



Not according to some appologist on this board. They constantly forget that the LEO has to be able to articulate that there was either REASONABLE suspision or probably cause.
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