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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/1/2005 2:54:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:54:48 PM EDT by raven]
They're only waithing for our approval

Europe on standby to send petrol to US
>By Andrew Ward in Montgomery, Alabama, Carola Hoyos in London and Christopher Swann in Washington
>Published: September 1 2005 18:36 | Last updated: September 1 2005 19:43
>>

European countries were on Thursday preparing to release emergency stockpiles of petrol as the US confirmed that some refineries hit by Hurricane Katrina would remain shut for several months.

Earlier US officials had estimated the closures at only one to two weeks.

Officials from member governments of the International Energy Agency, the energy watchdog of industrialised countries, said they were now waiting only for the US to agree to such a measure.

The International Energy Agency, the organisation that coordinates the release, would say only that it was still assessing whether the size of the shortfall caused by Katrina warranted calling an emergency release.

Germany has assured the IEA that it would release stocks if asked to participate if needed. Germany holds the largest number of barrels of petrol in public storage. These extra barrels could hit the markets within one or two days. France, Spain and Italy also have large emergency gasoline reserves. However, should the gasoline be released, European countries are likely to seek an economic or political quid pro quo from Washington.

Europe has 168m barrels of petrol reserved for emergencies, with 53m of those held by governments or agencies. The US holds only emergency stockpiles of crude oil.

Jittery motorists formed lines of up to a mile long outside gasoline stations in several southern US states on Thursday, in anticipation of fuel shortages over the Labor Day weekend.

In scenes reminiscent of the oil crises of the 1970s, drivers drained pumps at stations in Georgia and Mississippi.

People queued for hours at the few petrol stations that were open along the Mississippi coast, clogging up roads and diverting police resources.

Fuel shortages stretched more than 100 miles north up the main highways running into the hurricane-hit area, as pumps were drained by evacuees fleeing the area and relief vehicles on their way in.

At some filling stations hours inland from the coast, locals appeared to be the main source of demand amid mounting fears of a more widespread shortage. Quotas were being imposed in many places.

Police were present at the busiest stations, marshalling traffic and maintaining order.

With so much of the energy infrastructure in the south damaged, analysts said the petrol shortages could spread. Hurricane Katrina shut down at least eight crude oil refineries, responsible for producing about 1.8m barrels of refined products - about 10 per cent of the nation's total capacity.

Experts warned that shortages could spread up the east coast of American. Adam Sieminski, analyst at Deutsche Bank, said that if all Americans topped up their tanks with an extra five gallons of gasoline it would equate to 27m barrels of extra demand.

There have already been examples of price gouging, with one Georgia station charging $5.19 per gallon - almost double the national average.

Two lines transporting gasoline and other fuels to the rest of the US are also running at a third of capacity.

Frank Vervastro, at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the shortages could worsen if consumers panicked. “Normally drivers fill their tanks half way or slightly more,” he said. “If many now start to fill their tanks to the top, the shortages could become more acute.”

Seth Kleinman, an analyst at PFC Energy, a consultancy, said it could take up to a month for supplies to return to normal and that prices could remain elevated beyond this time. “This supply shock sets the stage for extremely high prices for the foreseeable future,” he said. “With prices already high due to strong global demand, the last thing we needed was a supply shock.”

The Consumer Federation of America estimates that the average US family now spends close to $2,000 a year on gasoline - up from around $1,300 in 2002. Households with incomes under $15,000 - about a fifth of US families - spend more than 10 per cent of their income on gasoline. A survey by the CFA suggested that three quarters of Americans were highly concerned about gasoline prices over the next five years.

link
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:58:40 PM EDT
Screw Europe. No quid pro quo.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:01:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 3:01:43 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Screw Europe. No quid pro quo.



Huh? I consider this a quid pro quo. And it doesn't exactly burden them either; it'll have the effect of lowering gas prices in Europe, too.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:05:05 PM EDT
Found elsewhere...

More than 20 countries are offering help since yesterday. This is a partial list:
France offering 1 billion $ and technical help;
Netherlands offering high technology help for below-the-sea-level cities;
Germany offering $ 800 millions;
Italy already send rescue teams with boats, helicopters and camps (highly specialized I may add-they're wonderful);
Russia offering $ 1 billion and technical aid;
Iran offering $ 1 billion and OIL AT 35 $ PER BARREL;
Venezuela offering health rescue teams;
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:11:25 PM EDT

We should not be accepting money from any
nation. The technically help is greatly appreciated,
however: thanks to Italy, the Netherlands, and
Russian (save the cash).


Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Iran offering $ 1 billion and OIL AT 35 $ PER BARREL;
Venezuela offering health rescue teams;



Thanks, but go fuck yourself.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:12:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Screw Europe. No quid pro quo.



Then go and push your car home dick-head
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:12:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Screw Europe. No quid pro quo.



Huh? I consider this a quid pro quo. And it doesn't exactly burden them either; it'll have the effect of lowering gas prices in Europe, too.



They should give without expecting us to cave in on politcial issues.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:17:21 PM EDT


Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Iran offering $ 1 billion and OIL AT 35 $ PER BARREL;
Venezuela offering health rescue teams;



YOU KNOW THE'LL SEND SPIES, right?!?!?!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:18:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
We should not be accepting money from any
nation. The technically help is greatly appreciated,
however: thanks to Italy, the Netherlands, and
Russian (save the cash).


Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Iran offering $ 1 billion and OIL AT 35 $ PER BARREL;
Venezuela offering health rescue teams;



Thanks, but go fuck yourself.



Yeah, lets let people DIE because we're too fucking proud to ask for help.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:18:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Screw Europe. No quid pro quo.



Then go and push your car home dick-head



I've got a full tank, plus extra.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:20:05 PM EDT
Sweden and Denmark should send us some women.
France should send some wine, cheese and bread.
Germany should send us some beer.
Ireland, whisky; Scotland, scotch; England, gin.

I think the rest we can handle the rest ourselves.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:20:34 PM EDT
WTF? I hope you are not the same that where saying "where's the worlds offer for help"
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:22:57 PM EDT

Iran offering $ 1 billion and OIL AT 35 $ PER BARREL


I would snap that up RFN.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:32:52 PM EDT
I'll take the oil at $35 a barrel. Let them keep their money. And the tech teams from the Netherlands. If anyone knows about living below sea level they do.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:34:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Yeah, lets let people DIE because we're too fucking proud to ask for help.



Can you be MORE melodramatic?

We've got it covered. The fuckup here is not
due to a lack of personel, it is the horrible
logistics and complete lack of order. Adding
more rescuers to the mix is not going to help
when fuckers are shooting at the ones that
are there.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:36:38 PM EDT
I wonder if this means we won't be getting anymore 'OMG WHY ISN'T TEH WORLD HELPING!?' threads?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:37:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:41:17 PM EDT
WTF is up with some of you?

If people are offering aid, we should take it.

We are always the first to line up and give when other people are in need. Guess what, we need help now.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:42:05 PM EDT
We need all the help we can get. It would be dumb to turn these countries down on their offers for assistance far as I'm concerned.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:42:30 PM EDT
Don't think of it as charity, think of it as Europe finally starting to pay us back for the billions of dollars we spent rebuilding their continent after two world wars. I'd rather use that money, and save some of our hard earned tax money for other programs. This is a good thing.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:42:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWS:
Sweden and Denmark should send us some women.
France should send some wine, cheese and bread.
Germany should send us some beer.
Ireland, whisky; Scotland, scotch; England, gin.

I think the rest we can handle the rest ourselves.


What about Russian vodka?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:47:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Yeah, lets let people DIE because we're too fucking proud to ask for help.



Can you be MORE melodramatic?

We've got it covered. The fuckup here is not
due to a lack of personel, it is the horrible
logistics and complete lack of order. Adding
more rescuers to the mix is not going to help
when fuckers are shooting at the ones that
are there.



Oh yes, we've got it covered alright. We're doing a fuckin bang up job of pulling off what could very well be the biggest fuck up job of a rescue ever seen by man.

Yep, definately on top of things.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:51:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Oh yes, we've got it covered alright. We're doing a fuckin bang up job of pulling off what could very well be the biggest fuck up job of a rescue ever seen by man.

Yep, definately on top of things.


And how would you handle the largest natural disaster in the nation's history? Could you beat the 1700 truckloads of supplies that have been shipped so far? Could you top the 200+ helos and hundreds of boats rescuing people who refused to evacuate? Would you somehow make the ships the Navy is sending move faster? Could you organize swift water rescue teams from as far away as California? Could you magically clear the unflooded roads into the area?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:59:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 3:59:37 PM EDT by Specop_007]

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Oh yes, we've got it covered alright. We're doing a fuckin bang up job of pulling off what could very well be the biggest fuck up job of a rescue ever seen by man.

Yep, definately on top of things.


And how would you handle the largest natural disaster in the nation's history?



Dunno, I'm not the President, I'm not the governer, I'm not the mayor and I'm not the head of FEMA


Could you beat the 1700 truckloads of supplies that have been shipped so far?


Dunno, see above.


Could you top the 200+ helos and hundreds of boats rescuing people who refused to evacuate?


Dunno, see above.


Would you somehow make the ships the Navy is sending move faster?


Yes.


Could you organize swift water rescue teams from as far away as California?


Duno, see above


Could you magically clear the unflooded roads into the area?


As a matter of fact, I could.

I'm just saying, from where I sit and from what I've sene and heard, this operation is goin really shitty. Maybe not because of any lack of resources, but it would still be foolish to refuse any outside help.
It comes down to an issue of pride. Someone, somewhere is too proud to say "Hey, could we get a bit of a hand?"

And when people are too proud to ask for help, and Americans die because of it, i gotta problem with that.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:02:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
I'm just saying, from where I sit and from what I've sene and heard, this operation is goin really shitty.


And that assesment is based on what? The media. Hope doesn't get ratings. Woe does.
The people actually executing the plan are too busy saving live and distributing supplies to answer criticism. That makes them a grand target for the media.


Maybe not because of any lack of resources, but it would still be foolish to refuse any outside help.


That depends. Do they come with their own supply tail? Is there infrastructure to support the additional people? Will language barriers be a hinderance? There are many reasons why help may not be the best idea; it's called the law of diminishing returns.


It comes down to an issue of pride. Someone, somewhere is too proud to say "Hey, could we get a bit of a hand?"

And when people are too proud to ask for help, and Americans die because of it, i gotta problem with that.


I agree in principle. But we aren't there yet.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:07:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
What about Russian vodka?



We make pretty decent vodka here.

Oh, and Iceland should send us some......ice.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:10:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
I wonder if this means we won't be getting anymore 'OMG WHY ISN'T TEH WORLD HELPING!?' threads?



+1 I see people spout all the time about all the aid we give the world and how they never do a thing to help us out. Well, sounds to me like they are more than happy to help us. Remember that while we argue at times, Europe is NOT our enemy and there is no shame in letting them help out a bit.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:13:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
I'm just saying, from where I sit and from what I've sene and heard, this operation is goin really shitty.


And that assesment is based on what? The media. Hope doesn't get ratings. Woe does.
The people actually executing the plan are too busy saving live and distributing supplies to answer criticism. That makes them a grand target for the media.



True. But some of the stuff I've heard on the scanner, and some of the stuff I've read on blogs.....This isnt a A grade rescue.
Then again, we're not rescueing the A team either so....... I guess its expected the rescuee's would do things like shoot the rescuers......





Maybe not because of any lack of resources, but it would still be foolish to refuse any outside help.


That depends. Do they come with their own supply tail? Is there infrastructure to support the additional people? Will language barriers be a hinderance? There are many reasons why help may not be the best idea; it's called the law of diminishing returns.



I understand the law of diminishing returns. Thats also a politically correct way to say "acceptable loss of life".
Additionally, a good deal of the help offered isnt necesarily equipment or manpower, but simply offers of financial help. To the tune of billions of dollars. Seems a bit selfish to me to turn down help. Its going to cost tens of billions of dollars to get through this. We're already ass deep in dept, paying for a "never ending" war and facing a drop in the dollar amount. And yet, we turn down offers of help.





It comes down to an issue of pride. Someone, somewhere is too proud to say "Hey, could we get a bit of a hand?"

And when people are too proud to ask for help, and Americans die because of it, i gotta problem with that.


I agree in principle. But we aren't there yet.



Based on what peice of information do you think we're not there yet? For two days after the hurricane hit I kept hearing about people drowning in attics or people stuck on rooftops because there wasnt enough people to mount the rescue operations.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:21:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
Don't think of it as charity, think of it as Europe finally starting to pay us back for the billions of dollars we spent rebuilding their continent after two world wars.



The US waived that debt. But don't let mere facts get in your way!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:23:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
Don't think of it as charity, think of it as Europe finally starting to pay us back for the billions of dollars we spent rebuilding their continent after two world wars.



The US waived that debt. But don't let mere facts get in your way!



How dare you bring facts into an internet forum.....

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:26:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
True. But some of the stuff I've heard on the scanner, and some of the stuff I've read on blogs.....This isnt a A grade rescue.
Then again, we're not rescueing the A team either so....... I guess its expected the rescuee's would do things like shoot the rescuers......


That's one of the obstacles. The responders weren't armed, but they were taking fire. Haven't had that happen before, so they didn't prepare for it. If you would have told me a week ago Americans would shoot rescuers I would have thrown the BS flag.



I understand the law of diminishing returns. Thats also a politically correct way to say "acceptable loss of life".
Additionally, a good deal of the help offered isnt necesarily equipment or manpower, but simply offers of financial help. To the tune of billions of dollars. Seems a bit selfish to me to turn down help. Its going to cost tens of billions of dollars to get through this. We're already ass deep in dept, paying for a "never ending" war and facing a drop in the dollar amount. And yet, we turn down offers of help.


No, it's not another way of saying "acceptable loss of life." It's a way of saying if you overburden your logistical structure you'll end up costing more lives.




Based on what peice of information do you think we're not there yet? For two days after the hurricane hit I kept hearing about people drowning in attics or people stuck on rooftops because there wasnt enough people to mount the rescue operations.


Hmm for two days I've heard about the USCG rescuing over 1500 people, over 2200 people now using a handful of helos. Then there are the ANG, Army, USAF, Navy, and Marine helos that have also been conducting rescue ops as soon as they were on station. The only detriment to the rescue efforts has been the damn thugs shooting at the recuers. Already there are swift water rescue teams conducting operations as of this morning and they had to stop because they were being shot at. A little more than 48 hours since the levees broke the NO airport is receiving C-130 flights. Biloxi and Keesler are also flying 72 hourse since the hurricane. These are remarkable feats. Tens of millions of liters of water have been shipped to the region. The infrastructure is destroyed, which harms any efforts.

As for the likes of Bill O'Reilly saying it's been four days to get the NG into NO, he must have missed the troops that were already in the city on Sunday. He must have missed the troops trying to get control of the SuperDome to ship people to the Astrodome yesterday. Why is there a need for 30,000 more NG troops? Because the people or NO are acting like a Somalian Gang, shooting and looting.

If anyone is screwing up the efforts its the armed thugs in NOs.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Iran offering $ 1 billion and OIL AT 35 $ PER BARREL;
Venezuela offering health rescue teams;



YOU KNOW THE'LL SEND SPIES, right?!?!?!



This is a time to be grateful.

And- They already have ROP spies everywhere here.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:27:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tfod:

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Iran offering $ 1 billion and OIL AT 35 $ PER BARREL;
Venezuela offering health rescue teams;



YOU KNOW THE'LL SEND SPIES, right?!?!?!



This is a time to be grateful.

And- They already have ROP spies everywhere here.



The $35 a barrel oil is a hollow offer... we cannot refine it they know that.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:35:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By tfod:

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Iran offering $ 1 billion and OIL AT 35 $ PER BARREL;
Venezuela offering health rescue teams;



YOU KNOW THE'LL SEND SPIES, right?!?!?!



This is a time to be grateful.

And- They already have ROP spies everywhere here.



The $35 a barrel oil is a hollow offer... we cannot refine it they know that.



But other countries can, then ship the gasoline here. I think it's a pretty nice move from Iran, given how much aid we sent them whenever they have one of those killer earthquakes.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:08:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Max_Mike:


The $35 a barrel oil is a hollow offer... quote]



We have released crude oil from our reserves. Who is going to replace that? Mary Poppins? Reality check, the oil reserves will need replaced, and if we can do it at $35 dollars a barrel, it would help.

Granted, we are short on refineries. We’ve been over this several times. The easiest solution is to build more refineries, but now Citigo stated they were low on crude too. Iran is offering oil at less than half the cost. Take it.

Our boycott has not had any significant impact, and they’ve still managed to get nuclear reactors.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:10:42 AM EDT
Does the US have any gasoline reserves or just oil reserves that still need to be refined into gas?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:07:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcantu:
Does the US have any gasoline reserves or just oil reserves that still need to be refined into gas?



Strategic Petroleum Reserve.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:12:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Screw Europe. No quid pro quo.



Then go and push your car home



Deal! America never gave aid to countries hit with natural disasters with strings attached. EURO-TRASH!

Shok
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:42:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:47:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
Don't think of it as charity, think of it as Europe finally starting to pay us back for the billions of dollars we spent rebuilding their continent after two world wars. .



Britain repaid every last penny of aid the US sent it in WWII…



We got some pretty nice islands for some old destoyers and DEs from you blokes too.

The real question is did we ever pay you back for all of that mil aid during the French and Indian war? Well, probably not the way old George thought anyway.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:51:00 PM EDT
They just volunteer to do this out of the blue...I call

We asked them to do it if anything. Now with their help, we would make it look like it was their idea so nobody panics.

This doesn't look good.

I am really expecting another attack soon.

If Al Quiada hits us at the right times, they can GREATLY increase their effectiveness against us.

I always thought Sept. 11th was the first step in a multi-stage plan to bring us down.
Imagine what a 20 or even 30 year depression would do to us.

...or maybe I'm just a little paranoid
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:59:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:06:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

The DE's were damn good ships, but those 4 stackers really were a bum sale, most were too rotten to sail!



All the Empire's Carribean bases belong to us.

You know, if you just gave us a bill and let us how to figure out how to pay it instead of levvying the taxes yourselves we would have belonged to you for probably another 20-30 years at least.

Then again we weren't as profitable as some of those islands down south.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:09:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By mcantu:
Does the US have any gasoline reserves or just oil reserves that still need to be refined into gas?



Strategic Petroleum Jelly Reserve.



God bless President Clinton.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:10:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Found elsewhere...

More than 20 countries are offering help since yesterday. This is a partial list:
France offering 1 billion $ and technical help;
Netherlands offering high technology help for below-the-sea-level cities;
Germany offering $ 800 millions;
Italy already send rescue teams with boats, helicopters and camps (highly specialized I may add-they're wonderful);
Russia offering $ 1 billion and technical aid;
Iran offering $ 1 billion and OIL AT 35 $ PER BARREL;
Venezuela offering health rescue teams;

that is great. I really hope our president takes them up on it. America tries to help other countries when they are in need. Now the shoe is on the other foot and I think it shows some class when other countries that can afford it try to return the favor. While we may not need the help, it sure would do wonders to clean things up faster and return the south to the way it used to be. Not to mention it could help in building/rebuilding relationships with countries that we don't agree with right now. Don't let your pride get in the way of the right choice.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:21:43 PM EDT
I'm sure everyone looking to help us will also be sending their aid with a bill tacked to it. Nobody helps the world's military and economic superpower without expecting something in return. Fuck'em all. We should take care of our own and set the example for other countries to do the same.
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