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11/9/2018 9:21:38 PM
Posted: 3/13/2005 7:31:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 7:38:02 AM EST by TIMMAH]

MILAN - A radical Egyptian cleric known as Abu Omar was walking to a Milan mosque for noon prayers in February 2003 when he was grabbed on the sidewalk by two men, sprayed in the face with chemicals and stuffed into a van. He hasn't been seen since.





Milan investigators, however, now appear to be close to identifying his kidnappers. Last month, officials showed up at Aviano Air Base in northern Italy and demanded records of any American planes that had flown into or out of the joint U.S.-Italian military installation around the time of the abduction. They also asked for logs of vehicles that had entered the base.

Shadowy practice probed
Italian authorities suspect the Egyptian was the target of a CIA-sponsored operation known as rendition, in which terrorism suspects are forcibly taken for interrogation to countries where torture is practiced.


• CIA avoids scrutiny of detainee treatment
• Democrats seek probes on CIA interrogations
• CIA moves to second fiddle in intelligence work

The Italian probe is one of three official investigations that have surfaced in the past year into renditions believed to have taken place in Western Europe. Although the CIA usually carries out the operations with the help or blessing of friendly local intelligence agencies, law enforcement authorities in Italy, Germany and Sweden are examining whether U.S. agents may have broken local laws by detaining terrorist suspects on European soil and subjecting them to abuse or maltreatment.

The CIA has kept details of rendition cases a closely guarded secret, but has defended the controversial practice as an effective and legal way to prevent terrorism. Intelligence officials have testified that they have relied on the tactic with greater frequency since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Resistance from Europe
The Bush administration has received backing for renditions from governments that have been criticized for their human rights records, including Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan, where many of the suspects are taken for interrogation. But the administration is getting a much different reception in Europe, where lawmakers and prosecutors are questioning whether the practice is a blatant violation of local sovereignty and human rights.

There are many practical and legal hurdles to filing criminal charges against U.S. agents, including the question of whether they are protected by diplomatic immunity and the matter of determining their identity. However, prosecutors in Italy and Germany have not ruled out criminal charges. At the same time, the European investigations are producing new revelations about the suspected U.S. involvement in the disappearances of four men, not including the Egyptian, each of whom claims they were physically abused and later tortured.




looks like they aren't safe in France afterall
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:34:31 AM EST
Awesome.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:35:22 AM EST
Great.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:41:01 AM EST




Not
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:45:39 AM EST
do "rendition" take requests...

I'd like to nominate Abu Hamsa (the prick with the hooks)

Taffy

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:49:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:49:38 AM EST
only way to deal with those scumbags
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:50:35 AM EST
That 737 has logged some serious air time.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:51:03 AM EST
Are they sure the Brits aren't doing some of this too?

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:53:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 7:54:11 AM EST by vito113]
Oh Yes!!!!!!

Bad men and a Gulfstream V! Britain and the US don't allow torture, but we know people who do!!!!!!

Gulfstream V N379P and the process is called 'Extraordinary Rendition"……

The Jet has since been re-registred…

www.globalpolicy.org/empire/terrorwar/analysis/2005/0210britaccused.htm

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:53:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Are they sure the Brits aren't doing some of this too?




In it up to our necks!…read my linky!

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:56:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:57:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 7:57:42 AM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
This is what the CIA is supposed to be doing. I just wish they were better at doing it sub rosa and without generating sneering articles in Le Monde.



Why Jarhead? Our Islamofascist 'friends' are shitting their pants world wide in case they get 'invited' for an all expenses paid trip in an excutive jet!…

In Counter Terror ops you should make your enemies afraid of the dark and strike terror into their cold dark hearts. Want to guess how many would be 9/11 jihadis took a 'one way flight' to hell?

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:57:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:58:59 AM EST
Note to bad guys in Europe and elsewhere - You really, really don't want to be on our shit list.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:03:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 8:04:14 AM EST by vito113]


This is the actual jet would be Jihadis really don't want to fly on… it's very hard to get a return ticket!

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:07:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 8:28:50 AM EST by david_g17]
in other news, a european reporter was grabbed, sprayed in the face, and thrown in a van...


man, i hope this is true; if so, Good Work NSACIA!!!

eta: thanks for the clarification.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:12:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
This is what the CIA is supposed to be doing.



+1
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:12:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By david_g17:

man, i hope this is true; if so, Good Work NSA!!!



That's the CIA's bag. NSA does this kind of stuff:


"Within Europe, all email, telephone, and fax communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency"

-- European Parliament report "Assessing the Technologies of Political Control"

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:24:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
This is what the CIA is supposed to be doing.



+1



+1 Nice to know they are doing thier job
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:29:15 AM EST
Now ther interesting part of all this is that one of the destinations is SYRIA. Which makes you scratch your head since all the saber rattling against Syria recently.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:31:52 AM EST
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?

Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:37:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
Oh Yes!!!!!!

Bad men and a Gulfstream V! Britain and the US don't allow torture, but we know people who do!!!!!!

Gulfstream V N379P and the process is called 'Extraordinary Rendition"……

The Jet has since been re-registred…

www.globalpolicy.org/empire/terrorwar/analysis/2005/0210britaccused.htm

ANdy



Since it was re-registered, an outfit called Yellowstone Aviation has reserved that reg number. Interesting.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:55:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 8:57:36 AM EST by SkiShooter]
Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?

Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.

[/quote

I'll settle for a pork drop
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:59:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 8:59:51 AM EST by sherm8404]

Originally Posted By SkiShooter:
Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?

Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.




I'll settle for a pork drop


How 'bout a MOAB with a few dozen menstruating swine strapped to it?
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:03:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?

Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.




i disagree, missles would be cheaper and have a better effect.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:07:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?

Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.




Hey.. I'm all for a little information extraction technics on these islamonazis. Then send there facist ass's into an active volano and send them to allah. Let him deal with them.

If it saves American lives in the process. Lets get it done now, not 20 years from now.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:09:16 AM EST


Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here?...




the last 5 years or so.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:18:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By TIMMAH:
MILAN - A radical Egyptian cleric known as Abu Omar was walking to a Milan mosque for noon prayers in February 2003 when he was grabbed on the sidewalk by two men, sprayed in the face with chemicals and stuffed into a van. He hasn't been seen since.



Reason #8,482 why I voted for President Bush.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:12:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here?



I dunno...a brain, a clue, any sort of realistic perspective? All of the above?
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:15:21 PM EST
I hope we are doing this....
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:20:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?

Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.




What you are missing is that we are at war with these people, they will kill us at any opportunity, there can be no safe havens for them. Attack us, we will find you, there is nowhere you can hide, you will suffer the consequences.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:30:18 PM EST
The nice thing about all this is that it's all something of a game between the intel agencies. I don't believe that the European agencies really have much of a problem with the abductions in and of themselves, they probably believe that the people had it coming, as much as the natural objection to the concept of someone else's intelligence agency mucking around in their own country abducting people. It -is- against the law after all.

I'm sure that if the CIA agents involved were caught and identified, it would be considered 'a fair cop' by the US. Doubtless the FBI has similar concepts to Mossad or whoever conducting their own vendettas in the US.

Still, the Irish government really would like to have the Lebanese chap currently living in Detroit wanted for the murder of three of their soldiers in the 1980s. They were hoping that post-9/11 legislation might make it easier to extradite, and Irish people are too good-natured to go nabbing him on their own..

NTM
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:02:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?



Remember back after 9/11 GWB said this would be a war fought in the shadows?…

Welcome to the 'Shadow War'… this is the real battleground in the WoT.

ANdy
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:27:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/ujihadijet.jpg

This is the actual jet would be Jihadis really don't want to fly on… it's very hard to get a return ticket!

ANdy




The only thing missing on that plane are some bomb-bay doors to drop the terrorists out over the ocean.

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:33:25 PM EST
I just use a regular commercial van with no windows and a stun gun. Works everytime
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:35:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?

Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.





Where the fuck have you been? Under a rock? You fight fire with fire ..........geeez.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:49:39 PM EST
Argh, I know I shouldn't like this but hell, I can't supress a grin at some of the dissapearances. I listened to a radio programme about that Gulf Stream. You reckon the crew get frequent flyer miles, cos they have been very busy

/Phil
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:51:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?



I betting they are. Probably LOTS of info.


Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.




As far as I'm concerned "an eye for an eye" isn't sufficient payback - try "every single f*cking terrorist still walking the Earth's lives, as well as any govt or other organization supporting them's lives, for an eye". Even that doesn't seem quite enough to me, but it will have to do.

Grow a pair already.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 1:56:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?

Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.







Playing by "The Rules" is fine when you are talking about BASEBALL.

In case you haven't noticed we are fighting for our WAY OF LIFE!

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 2:10:16 PM EST
tag
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 2:32:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By postpostban:
What am I missing here? This is a terrible idea. How is sinking to this level a good idea?

This just give credence to the left's arguments that GWB is a bigger terrorist than the terrorists.
Are these abductees really giving up any info?

Hey if this is a good idea, maybe we should just run some jets into Mecca, what's fair is fair , right.
Eye for eye and all that.




I'm sure our CIA doesn't spend billions of dollars just to abduct innocent people and torture them just for the hell of it. They probably use NSA email and phone intercepts to determine who's a "player" and where they are, and then the CIA does what they have to do to get the info from them, assasinate them, or whatever it is they do. I really don't see what the big deal is. It's not like they're kidnapping American citizens on American soil. If they did that, THEN I would have a problem with the .GOV.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 3:56:27 PM EST
The terrorists dont play by any rules, and they see our restraint as weakness. Fuck them. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 5:14:57 PM EST
Some people are clueless of whats going on in the real world.

Were dealing with terrorist, not actual goverments. These people work in the shadows. They could very well be your neighbor, friend, co-worker, boss, doctor, lawyer, the guy at McDonalds,or even a public official. They are invisible to most people, because they have to be.

They don't go around with signs telling you who they are and what they will do next. But they do tend to use the same contacts or finacial institutions that help identify them. This is how they( the terrorist) are ussually tracked down and captured. Once captured, time is short before someone in their cell group figures out they are missing and move on to the next location to hide.

So yes, its O.K. in my book if you have to grab the little bastards off a side street in France,or Germany. Then fly hime to Cuba or some torture friendly country(depending on how fast you need the info), and do the deed. Yes, even barbecue the little son of bitch to get that info. Lets face it. they love to show Americans heads being slowly cut off in front of a camera, then played in the news for entertainment to the other followers.

Why should more American have to die to entertain your liberal beliefs?


If you still have a problem with what has to be done. Then why don't you go to Iraq, and get yourself captured by the socalled Insergents(terrorist), so we can watch your head being slowly removed off of your carcass. At that last moment when the blades starts cutting your flesh. You will finally get the revelation of your life. Then it will be too late.

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