Ok well its not much of an ethical dilema but mabye some input would help me decide. I got out of the Marines 3 years ago. I get my degree in the next few months and to be honest, I miss the military life. I want to join back in as an officer.  Here is my problem.

I have never been a good runner. My best 3-mile run time was 22 minutes. After talking to the USMC officer recruiter he informed me that I would be at the back of the pack and would have a very difficult time in OCS. I can handle the difficult time. What I am worried about is if I do join the Marines again i will not be able to do my full 20 because I would get passed over by other officers that are much better runners than me. I have a very strong feling that is what would happen.

I have now started considering other forces. I dont want to join the Navy because I do not want to spend all that time away from my family. I have not considered the Army very much because of various horror stories I have heard about job placement. Air Force seems to be the best choice because their physical standards are not as tight as the Marines. (Im not fat but I am not a speed runner and never will be. Im actually in good shape.) HYowever, by joining any other service I feel like a traitor to the Marines. Expecially after how much crap I talk about the AF.

So anyways, what do you guys think.



***********************Update**************************

Talked to a AF recruiter today on the phone. I have a meeting sept 22. I told him I am interested in Para rescue or combat controller. I dont want a techno job like i had before.

join the college track team, maybe some proper coaching can help

Quoted: by joining any other service I feel like a traitor to the Marines. Expecially after how much crap I talk about the AF.

Fight the brain washing. Do whats best for YOU!!

Serving in the military is still just that SERVING, all branches provide an equally important contribution to the others

Try the Army. I know some ex Army officer types who couldnt run distance, but they were excellent officers and made it well past their twenty.

I knew quite a few guys that went from the Marine Corps to the USAF, some as Security Police/Security Forces which does alot of Army training due to the nature of the job. Then a few who went Pararescue or Combat Control which also do alot of field training, believe it or not there are some hard corps guys in the USAF they're just more low profile.

I am as detached an observer as there is. No military service. No athletic talent. My advice: for the balance of your academic career, you have one hobby. That hobby is running. You don't drink beer. You don't hang out at arfcom. You don't even shoot. You run.

From what you've said I have no doubt that you can do it. You just have to focus. You have a single shortcoming between you and what you want. Beat it down.

How is your eyesight, and what was your GT score if you remember? If they meet the standards, want to fly helicopters?

Also, what is your degree in?

Quoted: I think you should ask in the Fitness forum what you can do to improve your running. try walking alot, working up to jogging.  Set aside several hours a week.  If you want it bad enough, you can have it.

I can run right now. I ran 3 miles the other day. Its not that I cant run, I just cant run fast. I've been doing sprints too to increase my speed.

I knew quite a few guys that went from the Marine Corps to the USAF, some as Security Police/Security Forces which does alot of Army training due to the nature of the job. Then a few who went Pararescue or Combat Control which also do alot of field training, believe it or not there are some hard corps guys in the USAF they're just more low profile.

I've actually looked these up and am thinking about it. Combat Controllers did a bit of training at Kesler AFB when I was their in '97.

Look at your long term goal - a military career as an officer.  Look at your problem getting there - you aren't a good runner.

Hire a running coach, seriously.

Do it.

'Nuff said.

As long as you are competitive with your age group peers it shouldn't be a problem, nobody will realistically expect you to keep up with a young stud just off the Cross-Country team at school.  As long as you aren't tail-end charlie everytime.  As far as time away, Navy and Marines are probably the worst, but it appears that both the Army and Air Force are now doing their best to keep up there.

Not to ba aa Muslim-Basher but Moslem Radical Fundamentalism and the Red Chinese are going to be on the  menu for years.

Remember the 1500's to 1700's in Europe, war after war after war the various Christian Countries, Italy, Spain, Austria, Hungary, Serbia against the Ottoman turks, the British against the French and Spanish, etc. I think that kind of world is approaching again.

Yes, in OCS there is a lot of running.  I mean lots and lots of runs.  Yeah there are some freakshows that run in the 15's.  But running is mostly mental.  There was a "heavier" dark green canidate that had an invintory PFT run of 24 sumptin, his final PFT was 17:40..
  But basically dont sweat the run times, in ocs just keep your composure and confidence no matter what.  Stay Marine.  Run daily.  find a running partner, that helps.  If you join another service, in your heart you will always be a Marine.  PM me if you have any more questions.  Good luck.

 Dont sweat PFTs once you are in the FMF, you run faster and do more pull-ups and crunches in front of your troops.

Being an Officer in the Marines is NOT about running, either IN OCS, or After.
Being an Officer in the Marines is FAR more about MENTAL agility and acuity.
Be fit, and 22min is no big thing.

run.  while you're running, keep thinking of what service you want to look further into.

when you're done with that, run some more.

oh yeah, don't forget to run.

You are an educated man.  I can understand your faithfulness to the Marines but if the Air Force has more to offer you than go for that.  Plus, it may be in the AF that you have the most to offer your country.  Not al of us had that chance.

Either way, I believe you will make the right decision...

SGatr15

Have you given thought to the Reserves or Gaurd?  That way you'd get your "military" fix and still have your life outside the military too. At a later date if you wanted to go full time I'm sure that'd be easy to do. Either way the Part Time service will give you some time to think about what you want to do and go from there.

btt

The recruiter may have a quota for enlisted that he needs to fill, and talking you out of OCS might be just to help his score.  Just a thought.  Make sure you can max out on you crunches and pullups, and knock that run down to around 20 min.  Go get some Marine, The Corps needs good officers that have enlisted experiance.  

run down hill for a week, and i mean haul ass. Wear a walk/discman(i alternate pantera/metalica w/airborne cadences)
run level for two days, and listen to the same inspirational music.
run level for 4 days, and wear leg weights or a small ruck(15 or 16 pounds max).
loose the weights and run up hill hard for a week. and i mean PUSH BITCH!!!(j/k)
time yourself as you go.
alternate amount of days you do for each phase.
time your self.
distance to train for 3 miles should be about 6 miles... 4 or 5 days a week.
time yourself every sat. morning. stay away from beer. i know it sucks, but if you wanna drink, drink a clear liqour and juice(cranbery works best-no sugar headache)
e-mail me if you have q-'s.
i'm in the 82nd. some days we run 8 miles, some days 4 or 5. some days we run with iba and plates. somedays ruck sacks. but i stick to it, even on leave and days off.

if youre not a runner, nothing hurts like having to come back after a long period off.

i'm 6'2", 240 lbs. 2 mile time around 12:40. i'm in the middle of the pack. skinny bastards suck, but you can do it man. you just have to cut more out of your real life.

then go were you can make a difference. if your an officer, i dont care who you are or what you did, as long as you do your job. sir.

reread your post.
marines always feel that way. buncha marines in my family. you'll get over that part. but try to meet the standard for usmc first, if thats what you want. then try the others.

my brother got wounded and medicaled, but still feels like he should be doing somthing for his country.

all i can say is you fuckers are dedicated...but youre still legs.

Quoted:  I feel like a traitor to the Marines.

I'll never understand you guys! Arnt you always a Marine! anyhow....join the Navy, running is 'non-existant'

Our Major was a Mustang officer.  He was a SSgt, got out, went to college, and came back in.  He ran cross country in college, but he wasn't really that fast.  When we ran PFT's, he never did better than about a 22.  Remember, the older you get, the more time you get, too.  Anyway, that Major is now a Colonel Select in an MOS that only has LtCol's: he was selected for command.

Do what you think is right, but don't sweat run times.  The Corps doesn't quite have the same zero-defect mentality it used to when it comes to runs.  22 is good.  Now, if you said you couldn't do a 24, that's something else.

Oh, and the comment about running faster in front of the troops is very true.  When I ran alone, I couldn't get past 24.  With the troops, I could do a 21-22 3 mile run.

Semper Fi!

Quoted: Um sprints ( high intensity interval training) are one of the best ways to improve your endurance and speed.

That' does NOT jibe with the whole 'slow-twitch' & 'fast twitch' muscle fiber issue.
Doesn't matter how fast you can run the 400m, it won't have much benefit to your running 3mi.

Half a lifetime ago, I lettered in the Half Mile. THEN spent a lot of years running in the Marines.

Interval training has benefits, but it is not, and sprinting is not, key to good long-distance performance.

Depends which Navy you join, surface, subsurface or aviation.

Quoted: I'll never understand you guys! Arnt you always a Marine! anyhow....join the Navy, running is 'non-existant'

You run 3 miles in 22 minutes?

Wow... I don't even want to tell you how many miles I can run in 10, and I am not a "runner."

All I can say is that if you want it bad enough, you WILL get it. You are a MARINE! You could rise from the fucking dead if you had to, dammit. Your body may be in shape, but your heart definately isnt, and your mind sounds like a g0damn flounder to me! Get your ass in shape NOW!

Quoted: You run 3 miles in 22 minutes? Wow... I don't even want to tell you how many miles I can run in 10, and I am not a "runner." All I can say is that if you want it bad enough, you WILL get it. You are a MARINE! You could rise from the fucking dead if you had to, dammit. Your body may be in shape, but your heart definately isnt, and your mind sounds like a g0damn flounder to me! Get your ass in shape NOW!

So im assuming you can run more than 2 miles in 10 minutes and that being not a runner. Yeah, I think that would be up their with the olympics. Are you also one of the people that can shoot 1/2 inch groups with your .357 mag snub revolver too?

I spoke to my GF about your situation and she also recommended Interval Training.
Here's an example :

Run fast for about half a track then walk for another half a track

Repeat until you can run faster for longer duration.

By the way give the Air Force a good look , besides the excellent training and career opportunities the Air Force life will be much easier on your family.

This from a former Army grunt who used to envy the Air Force's lifestyle.

Good Luck

PS : You might also try doing some lower body weight training to increase muscle .

Everybody that serves is important. The Marine that gasses up your vehicle, the Airman that packs the parachute for the flyers, the grunt Army soldier that totes a rifle and shoots the enemy, even the Navy squid that mops up the oil spill on the carrier deck. We will be proud of any decision that you make, Marine. Don't let your superb skills and talent go to waste. Use them to protect this country from an evil that would destroy it. People like you are what keeps this country free and safe from a tyranny more hideous than Hitler, Stalin, PolPot, and the rest that have terrorized this world.

You've got what the country needs, Marine. Please serve.

Quoted: So im assuming you can run more than 2 miles in 10 minutes and that being not a runner. Yeah, I think that would be up their with the olympics. Are you also one of the people that can shoot 1/2 inch groups with your .357 mag snub revolver too?

Actually I can run close 2.5 miles in 10 minutes. I don't consider myself a runner because I don't run for the fun of it. I just do it because it keeps me in shape.

(btw, I was just trying to give you some encouragement you might be familiar with )

I used to weigh 280 lbs. I started running. When I started I couldn't run for more than 3 minutes without feeling like I was about to have a heart attack. I kept running. 5 minutes was a major fucking accomplishment for me. Then 10, 15, 20, 30, then fimally 40 minute runs. All the while losing over 110lbs over the course of 9 months. Can you imagine a fat guy trying to run? Yeah... that was me, I kept doing it even when my chest felt like it was going to explode, because I wanted to lose fat and get in shape, I wanted to be an athelete (but not compete in olympics, it was just my personal goal for myself). I kept running until I could finally run a whole half hour just breathing normally through my nose. I don't even break a sweat until 13 minutes into the run

You just have to gradually build up your cardiovascular strength to achieve your goal. Eating right will help you even more.

ETA: I'm not going to kid you. If your cardiovascular system is in bad shape (you can be a body builder and be in poor shape cardiovascularly) it will probably take you months of training to lower your run time. If you smoke, you should consider quitting.

Quoted: Serving in the military is still just that SERVING, all branches provide an equally important contribution to the others

"There's nothing cushy about life in the ladies auxiliary balloon corps!!"