For you DIYers,

I have a garage in my house that the previous owner did an epoxy floor covering. It's nasty gray blue with no flakes and there are several spots that have been abused and chipped.

Everyone online suggests in this situation that I grind up the entire floor, back to bare concrete, before re-epoxying. My guy at Sherwin Williams says nonsense, just rough everything up, muriatic acid the bare spots, clean it really well and go to town with new epoxy.

Anyone have any idea? I can't be the only guy on here that has inherited a not so great garage floor when they bought a new house.

everyone i have talked to says they all turn to shit in a year or two

The cheap stuff, yes. If you get a good product, it will stick. But they will cost a bit more, and takes multiple coats to function properly (moisture bairrer, mid, top color, chip if you like, clear).

OP, grind or blast it off. A Chem strip will NOT work for prep. The paint store guys know how to sell paint... That's about it.

I've installed a few hundred thousand sq ft of epoxy in the last few years. Same with prepping slabs, and polishing/ staining/ sealing.

i was going to do epoxy but even higher quality epoxy eventually looks like crap from use. this lead me to garage journal which the ar15.com of garages and tools. i found a product called race deck and i gave up on the epoxy floor and i am going with race deck. be prepared going to garage journal will be expensive.

How many epoxy floors have you installed? I don't think you know what you're talking about. Aren't you just researching to do one floor?

Many of my products have a 15 year, 5 million dollar warranty. Do you think I could install product with that warranty if "even the high quality products look like crap from use?"

we spent a fortune on our shop floor at work and it just doesnt last. i have worked at 5 different shops and all the floors are messed up. epoxy might be fine if you dont use your garage. im using race deck and you can continue selling epoxy floors. its not for me. we had a warranty on our shop floor and it has been re done 3 times in the past 3 years and still looks like crap.

This....kinda.

We install epoxy floors in existing dairy farms. Water 24 hours a day, acid and detergent twice a day. Industrial pressure washers 4 inches from surface twice a day.

Even then our floors last 5 years without too much patching, will last 10 or 15 if you patch the spots as needed.

Need to grind off any loose spots, well adhered spots will be fine. Just rough those up and apply good epoxy.

Don't make the mistake my best friend made in his shop. He said "I bought some really high end epoxy, it cost us almost 50 cents a square foot for the material" and end up with another shit floor.

For reference, the epoxy I use runs 5-10 bucks a square foot just for the material. We only do epoxy as one of our services. I use my shop a lot and I don't have any coating on it though. It's not really needed if you have good concrete for most people.

this is what click bang doesnt get. race deck will last longer need no patching and will look so much better for year after year. in 5 years you are patching your floor which costs $5 - 10 per square foot of material. race deck is around $3 a square foot the last time i checked. if you do happen to destroy a tile you just replace that tile.

I looked up rack deck. Ive seen that in some shops before and seems like a good option for light use. Keep in mind when i say its getting patched that is a heavy industrial application. It has people and cows on it 24 hours a day. We have dairies that have eroded 8 inch slabs through to the dirt in 15 years. For a shop it would likely last decades before needing patched. Dairies and hog farms are the worst on epoxy and it will last 5 years there.

With that being said i may do race deck in my shop after seeing the neat colors. Really dresses up the place where i think epoxy looks shitty.

How does that solid race deck work for welding sparks and water? Id be afraid id get mold under the tiles maybe?

You can't put race deck in grocery stores, food processing, labs, hospitals, bathrooms, kitchens, or any other clean areas. Also it looks and sounds cheezy to walk on in commercial entries and lobbies where a polish or epoxy would look nice. I've got floors on two AFB here in aircraft hangers where they spec out epoxy. Not plastic click together tiles. Also many privet hangers. Too many projects to list.

Your race deck isn't as bullet proof as you think. I hope it holds up well for you. I really do. But you're really drinking the coolaid and putting it on a pedestal. If you beat up a good epoxy system that fast, you are going to tear up your plastic or rubber tiles. And the look will ware as well. They don't look brand new forever. Get some full size samples to play with before committing to the product. See if it's what will work well for you.

It's a huge bummer when a floor doesn't perform likes it's supposed to. Do you know what product they used? Was a moisture barrier used?

They are breathable, and non flammable. But slag will burn the lighter colors.

You missed the part where he was talking about harsh chemicals and constant powerwashing multiple times a day. Nothing lasts forever in that environment, and it will need some maintenance. 10 to 15 years is a pretty long life with all the punishment an industrial working floor takes. A quality epoxy floor that is properly installed is going to perform well on a residental garage floor that won't be seeing nearly the same abuse as a dairy. Not knocking racedeck or anything if that is your preference, but both systems have their strengths and weaknesess.

OP, if the existing floor is bonded and not peeling up, you can sometimes get away with roughing it up and going over it. Not knowing what the previous products quality is though, I would grind it up and start fresh. Use a 100% solids epoxy for the re coat. Stay away from acid etching, it is messy and you have to make sure all of it is off, or you will have bond issues. Diamond grinding is good, shot blasting is better. If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, hire a pro. Proper prep is critical to a floor performing properly. Epoxy often gets a bad rap because of people failing to prep the surface correctly, and it's not even the epoxys fault at all.

As you may be able to tell, I also do epoxy floors for a living. Mostly expensive industrial stuff.

This too. 90% of the time I see a floor that failed, it is due to improper surface prep. In 10 years I can count maybe on one hand how many times it was a product failure.

race deck is not for everyone. for home garages i think its the best option. i do like the look of a new epoxy floor i just dont like what happens to it after it get damaged. i just looks terrible. i will say that we had our drive through done at the same time our shop was done and it still looks amazing the difference is it only sees tires rolling on it and people walking on it.

I used epoxycoat.com on mine. It seemed to last well, I was happy it would self level up to a quarter inch thick if you applied enough. It is 100% solids so the thickness you put it down at is the thickness it stays at.

I know you are doing well for yourself and I value your opinion. is this good stuff? http://www.puremetallic.com/



 

Hey. Thanks for the kind words.

Some of the Metallix finishes look crazy, and can give a very bold wild one off look. I've put a little of it down. It is NOT easy to install to get the exact desired affect. I've played with it for customers that were very open to the final look of the floor. They just said flowing color, glossy, ripplie shiny metallic, and whatever you want to do. If you are in the same boat, go go for it. If you want it to look "exactly like that", move on and find a different system. You see everywhere on their sight how they don't garranty the final outcome. Every six lines it says that. But my customers and I've liked what we put down.

I'd get a contractor that is very familiar with installing the affect you want. Definetly use their full system. Prime, base, color affects, and use the clear tops. If you want to try it yourself, buy some plywood and toss some on it to practice before trying a kit on the slab. It would be better to burn some product on three sheets of ply to practice, than to get it on the floor, not like it, and have to grind and blast it off. It pretty tough to get off without the right equipment. The product is tougher than the concrete. Bead blast the slab to prep, and grinding the edges. Acid stripping is not sufficent (I don't care what anyone else says about this). The Metalix pre built color kits are a good idea to try to control the final look.

In the end, it's all in what the you customer wants. If you like it, try it out. It's pretty tough stuff.

My epoxy floor is turning to shit in under 1 year.  The soft rubber comping of my motorcycle is pulling it up like mad.  I used the stuff from Home Depot, Rustoleum I think.

I put race deck down in my garage about 3 years ago, I love it.  I got estimates from local professionals to epoxy coat but the race deck was less expensive, looked better and had a longer warranty.  The only thing negative about the race deck is if you have wide tires, (I have a corvette) you cant turn hard while not rolling, it can pull them up. Only hapened once to me when I first got the floor.

After 3 years, I just pulled up the race deck because im selling the house and didnt want to leave it. There was no mold or any other icky thing living underneath.

That sucks. It's a pretty cheap product and isn't known for lasting longer than a stick of gum. About the worst stuff you could buy. It's only slightly better than "floor paint" when installed on concrete.

If you blasted the slab, used a moisture barrier bottom coat, with the rustoleum as the color, then used a clear top coat over it, it might of lasted. The rustoleum el cheapo kit from Home Destruction is only rated to 3 lbs (under epoxy, not open) or 75% RH moisture at most. It usually needs a coat under it that's stuck to a blasted profile. Then a thick coat of rustoleum can go down. They usually tell you to roll it on way thinner than it should be. Then with a clear over it, to help creat a thicker build. That's the only way I've seen it last. Everything else has blown off the floor pretty quick.

Some have had ok luck with it. But they should buy lotto tickets (and send them to me), because I'm not that lucky. The conditions have to be ideal for it to hold. If anything is a little off, hot tire pickup will pull it every time. I won't install it.

I did rust oleum epoxy in a utility bathroom out in a shop when i was 18 so about 8 years ago. I didnt know any better back then but id compare it to concrete paint. I noticed no difference in performance.

That looks pretty good! Metalix does give the best 3d affect to slabs as far as epoxies go. That slab looks like a sea sponge crossed with a octopus that's having an allergic reaction to blue berries. I like it! Hope it holds up for him. I'm guessing he only etched the surface. Or did he grind it?

that's a stock photo. not mine... it looks just like that, I swear.  Just etch.




 
 

Since we are talking garage floors.

How the heck do they do the glossy, polished concrete floors in warehouse type stores? (Costco, Home Depot etc).

Because that seems to hold up pretty well. I would love to do my future shop like that.

Whatever you do it's going to chip again.  Select the easier option

they polish it.



 

For a high sheen see below. Low sheen is fewer steps, cheaper, but won't be glossy, and they usually aren't as tough.

Get the old flooring of. Grind with 30 grit metals, prep the spalls and cracks, then 100 metals. Then grind with 50, 100, and 200 hybrid diamond impregnated resin bond. Densify the slab. Then polish with a 400 grit resin. Spray your color. Then Polish at 800 and 1,500 grit. After that, seal and burnish the slab with a 3,000 grit diamond pad.

For a 5,000 sq ft floor, it takes 3 guys a week, and $150,000 worth of equipment to complete. It should run between $4-$6 per sq ft pending the existing condition of the slab.

http://www.diamabrush.com/

Did my garage eight years ago and it still looks great.

You're so right about garage journal.

That's not polishing. It's using a swing buffer or auto scrubber to buff the slab. I've not seen brushes able to cut a hard slab or thick adhesive.

I used the military grade epoxy kit from armorgarage.com in my home workshop. Multiple cleaning and etching steps, primer, epoxy and clear. Cost about $1400.00 for materials to do about 800 sq. ft. I went light gray, no flaky stuff and no grit additives.  Turned out great and seems to be extremely durable so far.

i think you need to define what the end use requirements and aesthetics need to be, and weigh those against cost.

there are applications that plastic tile wins out over epoxy, and vice versa.  if you can't or don't want to spend the money on surface prep work, then the tiles are a better idea.  if you want a showroom look, and/or will be doing stuff in your garage that is not suitable for tiles, then go for epoxy -- but do it right.  otherwise you are just going to have to do it again, and that gets expensive.  

for my "tractor shed/workshop", i chose to use tiles.  i don't weld in the shop.  

ar-jedi

http://www.bigfloors.com/shop/garagedeck-2/

That looks pretty easy to put together. What made you pick the floating tile over just spraying a sealer down on the slab?

This race deck sounds like the most half-assed way to cover a garage floor ever.
 

...So.....$3000 to $6000 just to cover my garage floor with special paint.



No thank you.  



 

so you don't know anything about it but it's "half-assed".

ok.


ar-jedi

lol, "but then doing it right is EXPENSIVE!!!! OMGBBQSUX"

ar-jedi

Its not a paint. Its a protective coating. As i said its not really necessary in my opinion for a light use shop.

Its make sense in the applications we use it on because it is a lot cheaper than shutting down for a remodel or leasing another dairy just so they can redo concrete. For a dairy producing 50 or 100 million dollars a year in milk, 20 or 30 grand for epoxy is a cheap solution.

My father did the epoxy shit in their garage... but he did it right. He had to do some serious work on the concrete to prep. It looks very nice. I'm about to move into a new place, and would love to be able to do that, but I don't think I'll have the patience. I think I'm just going to get some of those interlocking plastic tiles and cover it with those.

cost, ease of installation, ease of repair (you can pull up a tile in middle, i haven't had to do it yet though), and aesthetically it's a workshop so i don't need showroom floor.  the company i got the tiles from periodically has sales through GJ (garagejournal.com, as i am sure you are aware but others may not be) and i think i got those tiles (12 x 12) for $0.99 each back 5-6 years ago.  they have held up very nicely, and i have no complaints.  

ar-jedi

i rec'd an IM about how the installation process for the plastic tiles, and i thought that by answering here it might be more useful...

ar-jedi

to install:

measure your area and use a calculator or their little configurator tool to determine out how many tiles you need. each tile is 1 square foot, which makes it easy. the tiles have two "male edges" and two "female edges". this is ARFCOM, so i hope i don't need to explain how to connect them up.

start in one corner and thereafter your must lay ALL OF THE TILES in the same orientation. i started in the right hand back corner with the two female edges against the wall, and worked from there. this is the easiest route since you don't have to cut the male loops off the tiles for a flush fit against the wall. but this does mean that you will have a full tile on the right side and (most likely) will end up with cut tiles on the left side. if, for aesthetic reasons you want full tiles on the left side, rotate your starting tile 90deg ccw and work from the left hand back corner.

if you are purchasing the beveled edge strips with your tiles you will have to work out beforehand which way you are laying your tiles; the beveled edge strips come in male and female sexes, so you need to know what sex the last full tile will be presenting to the bevel edge strips.

four issues of note come to mind:

1) the plastic tiles will grow and shrink somewhat with temperature. so leave 1/2" space around the periphery when you install the tiles, otherwise with the garage door open in the summer you are likely going to have a bulge somewhere.

2) installation requires a miter saw, a mallet, a screwdriver, and that's it. the screwdriver is needed to separate tiles; they come pre-assembled in 2x2 form, which makes doing the center area go REALLY quickly because you are putting down 4 square feet of tile at once. but when you have to separate them (due to the edge or colors) you will have to unsnap the molded fasteners on the backside, which requires 2 seconds with a screwdriver. nothing, other than gravity, holds the tiles down. you can pull them apart again to clean underneath, or to replace one or more after a welding slag incident.

3) cutting is straightforward, you just need a miter saw with a 12" depth of crosscut. i guess you could use a jigsaw as well, it just will not be as defined an edge. note that since the resultant "sawdust" is not biodegradable you should use a shop-vac attachment on your miter saw or there will be colored plastic bits all over your driveway and grass edging for, well, forever. be sure to double check that you are cutting the correct edge off!

4) some folks over on GJ have complained (whined?) that, when installed over a smooth concrete floor, plastic tiles (of any brand) make a "clack-clack" sound when you walk on them. since my situation was a detached workshop, i had no worries about this. folks on GJ who have done attached garages with lots of daily foot traffic have reported that using a thin (compliant) wood flooring underlay material, such as the type made for Pergo flooring, completely resolves the clacking issue. just roll out the underlay, cut it to size using a utility knife, and install the tiles over it.

What would you recommend as a good garage floor finish that's above the quality of the Home Depot types, but isn't going to cost me thousands of dollars?



 

There are many manufactures, but you could look at using Westcoat. The primer coat is EC-12, the color coat is EC-34. If you have high levels of moisture in the slab, you'll need a moisture barrier under it all. You have to bead blast if there is moisture.

http://www.westcoat.com

http://www.westcoat.com/images/file/Color%20Charts/westcoat_topcoats_web.pdf

Click bang what epoxy system would you recommend for a person who was going to do it themselves.

Would you cover you kitchen in hardwood flooring tiles that just sat on the sub-floor and was not permanently attached?  Didn't think so.  





 

So, you're happy with it?  That's all that matters.  Who cares what I think?  



 

When I used to put in those kinds of floors for a living, we pretty much always ground the previous coating off.

The above links would work fine. You'll have to watch for moisture. That's your biggest enemy. Most of the failed epoxies in this thread are due to moisture. I can't prove it, but 95% of the epoxies I see are go bad are from moisture. The rest to bad prep (grind or blast). Other than that, you'll have to watch for contaminants in the slab. So oils, silicates, lithium sealers, and other junk. Grinding (blasting is better) the surface can help, but might not fix the problem. That's a difficult area to check (without expensive testing) other than knowing the history of the slab, and visually inspecting. Test with an Relative Humidity (RH) test. Drill a hole, set a probe and read it after 72 hours. Calcium chloride tests are NOT sufficient to test for moisture. That only tests how fast the moisture leaves the slab. You need an RH test. RH tests how much moisture is in the slab.

Test for moisture. Grind, fill the spalls and cracks with Rapid Set, base coat, one or two color coats, and a clear if you want a tough system.

My GarageTrac has been down since 2009, still going strong, I don't park on it but a few times a year when the Suburban is loaded up to go to a shoot and leaving early the next morning. The HD is on it year round.



http://www.bigfloors.com/product-category/garage-flooring/garagetrac/


The transition pieces went right into the grove of the laminate floor, worked out pretty slick.