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Posted: 12/30/2003 6:29:48 PM EDT
one of the many online articles

story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=541&e=3&u=/ap/20031231/ap_on_he_me/ephedra

although not offical, its pretty much a sure thing that in about 3 months ephedra will be illegal.

im predicting a split in opinion here on ARFCOM. reguardless of person opinion, this whole thing is alot like out gun control situtation. Ephedra has "killed" less than 200 people. most of these not only ODed on it, but were doing something really smart like running in the summer without drinking any water, or going on crash diets to lose fast weight.

this whole thing is silly
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 6:41:16 PM EDT
But, but, but, you must be protected from yourself!
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 6:49:34 PM EDT
Stupid. I don’t think it’s the best way to lose weight, but that is up to me to decide for myself, not the Govt. to decide for me.

Personally, I think the Drug Warriors pushed for this behind the scenes because it is sometimes used to make Meth.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 6:51:00 PM EDT
I think the HHS overstepped thier boundries on this one too.  Once they start allowing the banning of supplements then their really is no difference between prescription/non-prescription drugs and supplements.  Asprin or alchohol has probably killed more users than ephedra.  Probably more than 200 healthy males die every year due to strokes too so that statistic doensn't mean much to me.  
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:04:29 PM EDT
i took Ripped Fuel several years ago [:O]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:06:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bhart89:
I think the HHS overstepped thier boundries on this one too.  Once they start allowing the banning of supplements then their really is no difference between prescription/non-prescription drugs and supplements.  Asprin or alchohol has probably killed more users than ephedra.  Probably more than 200 healthy males die every year due to strokes too so that statistic doensn't mean much to me.  
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How right you are, I did a web search and found that 2000 die a year from Aspirin, and 50,000 a year from alcohol.

150 or so have died with connections to ephedra.

The Big Pharma's have been waiting for this for years....
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:12:39 PM EDT
Welcome to the Nanny State.

I love the stats comparing deaths from Aspirin and alcohol.

I predict it will be just like the AW ban, the runs on ephedra will be legendary.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:13:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 7:16:50 PM EDT by Zippy_The_Wonderdog]
You will, however, still be able to buy Bronkaid, by Bayer.

I always assumed that the ephedrine contained in Brokaid was the same as the ma huang, or ephedra, in other products like Ripped Fuel or the original Xenedrine.

I contacted Bayer today to see if Bronkaid will still be manufactured.  According to the rep. I spoke with...it will...as ephedrine is not the same as ephedra the Feds. are going ape-shit about.

So, you will still be able to build your ECA stack with the Bronkaid.

The homebrew ECA stack using Bronkaid always felt the same as the effects from Ripped fuel and Xenedrine to me.

[url]http://www.bayercare.com/htm/bronkhome2.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 8:03:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 8:06:40 PM EDT by Atencio]
Originally Posted By thedave1164:
Originally Posted By Bhart89:
I think the HHS overstepped thier boundries on this one too.  Once they start allowing the banning of supplements then their really is no difference between prescription/non-prescription drugs and supplements.  Asprin or alchohol has probably killed more users than ephedra.  Probably more than 200 healthy males die every year due to strokes too so that statistic doensn't mean much to me.  
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How right you are, I did a web search and found that 2000 die a year from Aspirin, and 50,000 a year from alcohol.

150 or so have died with connections to ephedra.

The Big Pharma's have been waiting for this for years....
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Statistically to be fair you need to list the precentage of users to the amount of deaths.  The difference in number of users between aspirin and alcohol to ephedra users is more than likely astronomically different.
A question with alcohol related deaths is if traffic related deaths are included in the data. If so then the people did not technically die from the alcohol.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 8:18:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cato556:
Stupid. I don’t think it’s the best way to lose weight, but that is up to me to decide for myself, not the Govt. to decide for me.

Personally, I think the Drug Warriors pushed for this behind the scenes because it is sometimes used to make Meth.
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No, meth makers use ephidrine, which is banned in certain areas.  Some makers will cut the product with it, but it can't be used to make speed
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 8:30:58 PM EDT
I find it ironic that a drug that is used to lose weight would have the same side effects of being overweight.  Aren't people taking this stuff to avoid strokes, high blood pressure, and irregular heartbeat?
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:17:54 PM EDT
I'm going to stock up on it now.  I don't use it, but I have a obsessive compulsive disorder that forces me to buy and acquire anything I'm not supposed to have or that's going to be banned.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:20:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 9:35:15 PM EDT by AR15fan]
The FDA will ban anything that resembles a pill and actually works, unless they are given regulatory control over it. The regulation of "drugs" is the FDA's kingdom, and they will protect it.  Every time the supplement market finds a nutritional supplement that works, whether it is GHB or Ephedra, the FDA will ban it to protect their kingdom. The FDA, unfortunately, has the power to regulate substances that behave in a "drug like way."  eventiually they will try to regulate cofee and other Caffiene containing foods & food supplements.

I took Hydroxy Cut several years ago when it still contained ephedra. I had put on about 20 extra pounds and hydroxy cut both worked as a appetite supressant and provided extra-energy during workouts.  My wife recently started taking a weider product that contains ephedra to help lose the weight she gained during her second pregnacy (she is done breast feeding) It's working great as an appetite suppresant for her, and she has consistantly lost about two pounds a week since she started taking it.

As other have pointed out. The majority of people who had problems with Ephedra did not take it as directed. they also took other Caffiene and stimulant containing substances with it.  You can hardly blame Ephedra when someone washes down half a bottle of hydroxy cut with a bottle of Mountain Dew and two Excedrine. Your asking for trouble if you abuse anything.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:26:51 PM EDT
I feel [b]so[/b] much safer now.

[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:35:39 PM EDT
Who cares if they ban fat people pills? I don't.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:37:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 9:40:26 PM EDT by raven]
I've taken it occasionally for nearly 13 years.  Except for one awful product (Yellow Jackets) no big whoop.

The stimulation is more effective than coffee, but it doesn't produce euphoria. It makes you feel horrible if you take too much. I used it to stay alert on long shifts in canneries and to counteract the soporific effects of alcohol so I could party longer in college.  

Tweakers hate the stuff compared to meth.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:44:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EHilderbrand:
Who cares if they ban fat people pills? I don't.
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Some people care that their government makes personal decisions for them.

I personally take much offense to the notion that the government - not me - knows what is best for me.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:53:58 PM EDT
Probably the major OTC supplement for which I have seen people with substantial side effects. It's a crappy drug and potentially very harmful, even when following the dosing instructions. I'd like to hear some of you if your daughter died from taking this shit. You'd be surprised how many people OD on things they don't think can hurt them. They are OTC so they must be safe, right?
I've seen more than a few fatal ODs from people who did stupid shit thinking that it couldn't really hurt them.

All of these should be controlled by the FDA. Either that or no drugs at all. That would be okay with me except for the fact that I'd have to try to figure out what is going on with people who can't or won't tell me what the hell they've taken.
Maybe it would push me into early retirement though. Hmmmm. Okay, I'm all for it.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 10:01:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead:
All of these should be controlled by the FDA. Either that or no drugs at all.
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No government control over drugs would suit me just fine.

Either way, I'm not going to take them.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 10:18:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EHilderbrand:
Who cares if they ban [s]fat people pills[/s] [s]porn[/s] [s]tobacco[/s] guns?
I don't.
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Ephedra ain't just a fat people pill.  I often take one before lifting, and it gives me the endurance to work out a lot longer and harder.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:14:28 PM EDT
I don't think they should ban it.  But I think the "supplement" industry should be held to the same standards as the regular over the counter industry.  Label the ingredients.  Let people make their own decisions.  There are a hell of a lot of supplements and oriental herbals that are pretty poisonous or toxic in larger doses or in combination with other things.  They just don't tell you what's in there.

Just because it is natural doesn't mean it can't kill you just as dead.

If you want to take something as long as it is accurately identified, then when you bend over and kick yerself in the back of the head you can't blame anybody.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:26:07 PM EDT
Sad reality is, it goes to show that we as a people must take a pill to lose weight and cannot excercise. Come to think of it, actually, I'm glad they banned it. This may now make obese people actually get off their fat asses and excercise!

Yes, I know you can take Ephedra for wieght lifting, etc, my brother did aswell as another family member.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:32:51 PM EDT
i would like to add a few things

150 (approx) deaths that they blame ephedra for, you hear about them on the news tonight. they didnt make a big whoop about the estimated millions of doses of ephedra taken this year that DIDNT cause a death. not unlike the media villifaction of our "evil deadly assualt rifles. this is all about the media warriors convicing the people on how horrible this is.


another thing to be looked at is the nature of many of these "ephedra deaths" had many other contributing factors. that pitcher that died about a year ago wasnt just popping a pill before working out. he was on a crash died and not drinking enough and over dosing trying to compensate for not being in shape. most of these deaths it cant be proven, or even reasonably suggested, that the death wouldnt have still happened had ephedra not been involved.


some of you dont like ephedra, but you need to look at what this really is. this is a ban based on media hysteria and skewed stats and "studies" with massive holes and gray areas. in short this is the same way they go about taking our guns.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:35:05 PM EDT
one more thing for the haters. Ephedra has zero effect if it is just taken as a pill to lose weight. the bottle says it does but that isnt true. all it is is a stimulant to assist in longer more intense workouts. no one has ever or will ever lose weight just from taking ephedria. all this "its just so far people can sit on thier ass" stuff is total ignorance
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:42:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattsd:
Ephedra has zero effect if it is just taken as a pill to lose weight. the bottle says it does but that isnt true. all it is is a stimulant to assist in longer more intense workouts. no one has ever or will ever lose weight just from taking ephedria.
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Ephedra is typically combined with caffiene,, and both act as an appetite suppresant. If you eat less you will lose weight. Ephedra & caffiene will help you eat less.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:48:40 PM EDT
When I was lifting weights hard and was trying to lose a little weight without losing strength I tried ripped fuel. Ripped Fuel is mostly that effedra crap. That stuff sucks, It made me mean as hell, I had mean thoughts all day long and just wanted to hit somebody. I was in a Supplement store and I talked to a woman that had the same problem. It will also make you feel like shit, even if you only use the recommended dose. I can see how the government feels like they should regulate it. I am not in any way for government regulation of just about anything.
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 6:34:15 AM EDT
Ephedra is probably the worst OTC supplement out there. I have been trying to get people to quit taking that shit for the past several years and have told plenty of people that it should've been taken off the store shelves.

However, I told people for several years, before being taken off the market, not to take Fen-phen because it was dangerous. Not many listened to that either. The few who listened to me about ephedra were those who had adverse side effects.

Gov't does have some role to protect us. Medications are serious business and almost all are toxins in reality. They just need sufficient dosing or conditions to become toxic.
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 7:09:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Medications are serious business and almost all are toxins in reality. They just need sufficient dosing or conditions to become toxic.
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Of course, drink enough water in 24 hours and you can die, too....
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 8:20:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2003 8:21:52 AM EDT by EricE]
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 8:24:04 AM EDT
I'm against banning it outright.

If it's really dangerous perhaps some middle ground could be found with labelling requirements, purity standards to ensure known dosages, restriction of sales to people over 18, etc.

Personally I have never taken ephedra nor do I ever intend to because I have hypertension and no reason to take it (not overweight nor do I need pep pills), although the fact that they want to ban it gives me an itch to buy some just to spite them.  That rebellious streak is the reason I own AR-15 rifles.

[50]
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 9:20:44 AM EDT
i wouldnt bother with that rebellious purchase there california kid, prices will likley skyrocket soon
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