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9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 10/18/2008 1:58:03 PM EDT
Billions of fish, fish eggs die in power plants
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By JIM FITZGERALD, Associated Press Writer – Sat Oct 18, 1:45 pm ET

BUCHANAN, N.Y. – For a newly hatched striped bass in the Hudson River, a clutch of trout eggs in Lake Michigan or a baby salmon in San Francisco Bay, drifting a little too close to a power plant can mean a quick and turbulent death.
Sucked in with enormous volumes of water, battered against the sides of pipes and heated by steam, the small fry of the aquatic world are being sacrificed in large numbers each year to the cooling systems of power plants around the country.
Environmentalists say the nation's power plants are needlessly killing fish and fish eggs with their cooling systems, but energy-industry officials say opponents of nuclear power are exaggerating the losses.
The issue is affecting the debate over the future of a nuclear plant in the suburbs north of New York City, and the facilities and environmentalists are closely watching the outcome here to see how to proceed in other cities around the country. The U.S. Supreme Court is expected to rule this term in a lawsuit related to the matter.
The issue's scope is tremendous. More than 1,000 power plants and factories around the country use water from rivers, lakes, oceans and creeks as a coolant. At Indian Point plant in New York, the two reactors can pull in 1.7 million gallons of water per minute. Nineteen plants on or near the California coast use 16.3 billion gallons of sea water every day.

Link Posted: 10/18/2008 1:59:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2008 2:00:16 PM EDT by evo462]

Someone needs to post the youtube link to the vid of the treehuggers literally balling about trees.

Alas!  That person is ME!


Link Posted: 10/18/2008 2:00:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2008 2:01:16 PM EDT by ORIGINAL-Waterdog]
How much cooling water does the nuke motor of a US Navy submarine use?
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 2:03:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ORIGINAL-Waterdog:
How much cooling water does the nuke motor of a US Navy submarine use?

87*eleventy power cubic feet of dead fish eggs.  Per second.
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 2:19:58 PM EDT
scary to think that those bastards vote!
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 6:26:11 PM EDT
For the reading impaired I used the bold function on some of the more idiotic parts. Link goes to WSJ online, not The Onion which is how some of the stuff reads. The best part is towards the end where you find out extra goldfish can't take a porcelon cruise, they have to be anesthetized with special chemicals then killed.

OCTOBER 10, 2008 Switzerland's Green Power Revolution: Ethicists Ponder Plants' Rights
Who Is to Say Flora Don't Have Feelings? Figuring Out What Wheat Would Want

ZURICH -- For years, Swiss scientists have blithely created genetically modified rice, corn and apples. But did they ever stop to consider just how humiliating such experiments may be to plants?
That's a question they must now ask. Last spring, this small Alpine nation began mandating that geneticists conduct their research without trampling on a plant's dignity.
Unfortunately, we have to take it seriously," Beat Keller, a molecular biologist at the University of Zurich. "It's one more constraint on doing genetic research."

Dr. Keller recently sought government permission to do a field trial of genetically modified wheat that has been bred to resist a fungus. He first had to debate the finer points of plant dignity with university ethicists. Then, in a written application to the government, he tried to explain why the planned trial wouldn't "disturb the vital functions or lifestyle" of the plants. He eventually got the green light.

The rule, based on a constitutional amendment, came into being after the Swiss Parliament asked a panel of philosophers, lawyers, geneticists and theologians to establish the meaning of flora's dignity.
"We couldn't start laughing and tell the government we're not going to do anything about it," says Markus Schefer, a member of the ethics panel and a professor of law at the University of Basel. "The constitution requires it."

In April, the team published a 22-page treatise on "the moral consideration of plants for their own sake." It stated that vegetation has an inherent value and that it is immoral to arbitrarily harm plants by, say, "decapitation of wildflowers at the roadside without rational reason."

On the question of genetic modification, most of the panel argued that the dignity of plants could be safeguarded "as long as their independence, i.e., reproductive ability and adaptive ability, are ensured." In other words: It's wrong to genetically alter a plant and render it sterile.

Many scientists interpret the dignity rule as applying mainly to field trials like Dr. Keller's, but some worry it may one day apply to lab studies as well. Another gripe: While Switzerland's stern laws defend lab animals and now plants from genetic tweaking, similar protections haven't been granted to snails and drosophila flies, which are commonly used in genetic experiments.

It also begs an obvious, if unrelated question: For a carrot, is there a more mortifying fate than being peeled, chopped and dropped into boiling water?

"Where does it stop?" asks Yves Poirier, a molecular biologist at the laboratory of plant biotechnology at the University of Lausanne. "Should we now defend the dignity of microbes and viruses?"

Seeking clarity, Dr. Poirier recently invited the head of the Swiss ethics panel to his university. In their public discussion, Dr. Poirier said the new rules are flawed because decades of traditional plant breeding had led to widely available sterile fruit, such as seedless grapes. Things took a surreal turn when it was disclosed that some panel members believe plants have feelings, Dr. Poirier says.

Back in the 1990s, the Swiss constitution was amended in order to defend the dignity of all creatures -- including the leafy kind -- against unwanted consequences of genetic manipulation. When the amendment was turned into a law -- known as the Gene Technology Act -- it didn't say anything specific about plants. But earlier this year, the government asked the ethics panel to come up rules for plants as well.

The Swiss debate isn't just academic twittering. Like other countries in Europe, Switzerland has long kept a tight rein on crop genetics, fearing that a mutant strain might run amok and harm the environment. Swiss geneticists say the dignity rule makes their job even harder.

Crazy Talk?
Several years ago, when Christof Sautter, a botanist at Switzerland's Federal Institute of Technology, failed to get permission to do a local field trial on transgenic wheat, he moved the experiment to the U.S. He's too embarrassed to mention the new dignity rule to his American colleagues. "They'll think Swiss people are crazy," he says.

Defenders of the law argue that it reflects a broader, progressive effort to protect the sanctity of living things. Last month, Switzerland granted new rights to all "social animals." Prospective dog owners must take a four-hour course on pet care before they can buy a canine companion, while anglers must learn to catch fish humanely. Fish can't be kept in aquariums that are transparent on all sides. The fish need some shelter. Nor can goldfish be flushed down a toilet to an inglorious end; they must first be anesthetized with special chemicals, and then killed.
Rhinoceroses can't be kept in an enclosure smaller than 600 square yards. Failure to comply can lead to a fine of 200 Swiss francs, or about $175. "The rules apply for zoos and private owners," says Marcel Falk, spokesman for the Federal Veterinary Office in Bern.

Are there pet rhinos in Switzerland? "I hope not," he says.

New Constitution
In another unusual move, the people of Ecuador last month voted for a new constitution that is the first to recognize ecosystem rights enforceable in a court of law. Thus, the nation's rivers, forests and air are no longer mere property, but right-bearing entities with "the right to exist, persist and...regenerate."

Dr. Keller in Zurich has more mundane concerns. He wants to breed wheat that can resist powdery mildew. In lab experiments, Dr. Keller found that by transferring certain genes from barley to wheat, he could make the wheat resistant to disease.

When applying for a larger field trial, he ran into the thorny question of plant dignity. Plants don't have a nervous system and probably can't feel pain, but no one knows for sure. So Dr. Keller argued that by protecting wheat from fungus he was actually helping the plant, not violating its dignity -- and helping society in the process.

One morning recently, he stood by a field near Zurich where the three-year trial with transgenic wheat is under way. His observations suggest that the transgenic wheat does well in the wild. Yet Dr. Keller's troubles aren't over.

In June, about 35 members of a group opposed to the genetic modification of crops, invaded the test field. Clad in white overalls and masks, they scythed and trampled the plants, causing plenty of damage.

"They just cut them," says Dr. Keller, gesturing to wheat stumps left in the field. "Where's the dignity in that?"

Link Posted: 10/18/2008 6:39:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By evo462:


Is it weird that I really like this picture?
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 6:51:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 6:55:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By ORIGINAL-Waterdog:
How much cooling water does the nuke motor of a US Navy submarine use?

87*eleventy power cubic feet of dead fish eggs.  Per second.

Link Posted: 10/18/2008 6:57:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2008 6:58:48 PM EDT by Swindle1984]
Burn hippies for fuel. Fucking environmentalists are a threat to humanity.

They're directly responsible for the massive, devestating wildfires in California every year (you know why other states don't have these giant fires? Because they don't have legislation preventing them from cleaning up litter in the forests so it doesn't catch on fire every frigging year.).

They're directly responsible for high gas prices because of the asinine regulations, blocking of new refineries, and blocking of new drilling.

They're directly responsible for the pollution put out by coal and petroleum plants because they block construction of clean nuclear power.

They're responsible for a Texas law that just passed this year that is against the Texas constitution (they passed it illegally and without the knowledge of most of the legislature) that bans "exotic" pets. The black list, banned animals, includes a huge variety of animals that are NOT exotic, NOT threatened or endangered, and have no reason to be on the list. You cannot buy, sell, own, release, or transfer any animals on the black list. Instead, you are required to kill them. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? You're trying to protect animals by having them KILLED by the thousands? My uncle had a license to own and breed several species of salamander, and now they're on the black list. He can either keep them and go to court/jail if he gets caught or he can kill them all. Meanwhile, the white list, the exotic animals you can own, includes SEVERAL endangered species that NO ONE should own! Stupid f***ing hippies!

Additionally, now the hippies are banning ASTHMA INHALERS. That's right, they've banned, on the federal level, the overwhelming majority of asthma inhalers. Because they contain CFC's, which deplete ground-level ozone. Ground-level ozone causes asthma. Good one, guys. If we don't want to suffocate to death, we have to literally pay ten times as much for the new inhalers, they use a very inefficient propellant and you get less medicine per dose (because it takes so much propellant just to get the tiny amount of medicine they do give you into your lungs), the new propellant CLOGS THE INHALER after nearly every use so you have to rinse it out with water, and you can't use the most effective asthma medications in them because the new propellant won't work with all of them.

And they're not just responsible for retarded legislation that prevents us from doing anything, oh no. They're assholes on an individual level as well.

Loggers, lumberjacks, and land developers have to be careful because hippies will drive metal spikes into trees. Men have been severely injured and even killed when they hit a spike or even a small nail with a chainsaw, and trees even EXPLODE into wooden shrapnel when the spike hits the giant saw when the logs are being processed at the plant.

They find treestands and blinds used by hunters, birders, and nature photographers and saw through them so that when the user puts his weight on them, the whole thing collapses and they fall out of a tree. Most break an arm or a leg but manage to drag themselves to their car to get help, but a lot of them die.

They stretch cables across trails used by ATV's, dirt bikes, and other off-road vehicles so that people get clothes-lined at high speed, often fatally.

They've even placed toe-poppers (a simple tube with a nail in one end and a shotgun shell inside; step on the shotgun shell and it pushes the primer into the nail, firing the shell into your foot.) in places popular with hunters and other outdoorsmen, though thankfully they're usually too stupid to build them correctly and they don't actually hurt anyone.

They set fire to car lots (putting out more pollution burning the cars than they would have produced in decades of driving.). They set fire to restaurants like McDonalds.

They throw blood (contaminated with who knows what) on employees of companies that do animal testing; half the time the company doesn't even DO animal testing and the hippies are too fucking stupid to realize it.

They "free" animals into an environment they're not part of and do massive damage (like those idiots who attacked a mink farm and released thousands of minks, all of which had to be exterminated because they were killing pets, local wildlife, and even attacking small children.).

Heck, even France used special forces to blow up and sink the Greenpeace boat Rainbow Warrior, and the Germans RAN OVER the Rainbow Warrior II with one of their boats when the hippies tried interfering with things. And this isn't even getting into the riots and attacks on military personnel or government property that the anti-war hippies get into, this is just the environmental hippies.

And how about all the global warming bullshit? That isn't even an attempt to save or protect anything, it's just about getting control over every aspect of our lives.

Is it any wonder I hate them? One day, they will PAY for their crimes against humanity, and I'll be first in line to beat up some hippies with a baseball bat.
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 7:04:38 PM EDT
Here's a picture of fossil fuels being used to blast acid generating rock in order to uncover ore that leached with cyanide.  I thought this might cheer you guys up.

Link Posted: 10/18/2008 7:05:09 PM EDT
Just a nail in the coffin.
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 7:14:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2008 7:15:05 PM EDT by raven]
Environmentalists are never happy.  No matter what, they will always find something to start shrieking about and call to ban.  Even our electricity.
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 7:17:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oarlock:
scary to think that those bastards vote!

And voted in how many times in Ohio and elsewhere.
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 7:24:38 PM EDT
Remember this shit when we're all walking or riding horses after the new supermajority liberal government outlaws anything that might remotely endanger some fish, bird or animal.
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 7:30:47 PM EDT
Cooling water is filtered.  Aquatic life fouls condenser heat exchange surfaces and plugs pumps.

Someone has not worked in a power plant.
Link Posted: 10/18/2008 7:34:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
Remember this shit when we're all walking or riding horses after the new supermajority liberal government outlaws anything that might remotely endanger some fish, bird or animal.

Shoes will be next after they get rid of other means of transportation.


falling down
Link Posted: 10/19/2008 7:49:42 AM EDT
the latest i have heard from these enviro-nazis is that all of these wind turbine electric generators will catch too much wind and slow down the rotation speed of the earth... I say i'd like another hour per day...
Link Posted: 10/19/2008 7:53:28 AM EDT
A warning to all tree huggers/bunny huggers: We will all kill 10 animals and 10 trees if Obama wins.
Link Posted: 10/19/2008 9:40:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
Remember this shit when we're all walking or riding horses after the new supermajority liberal government outlaws anything that might remotely endanger some fish, bird or animal.

Riding horses is akin to slavery, doncha know.
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