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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/18/2002 4:10:50 AM EDT
152 Enron execs get over 800 million.[whacko] 4,000 Enron employees get a max of 13,520! Somethings not right here.[rolleyes] [url]http://www.usatoday.com/money/energy/enron/2002-06-18-pay.htm#more[/url]
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 11:53:42 AM EDT
Had to give some of the middle level execs bonuses of $8mil to keep them for the few months the company would still be in business. [img]http://www.rapidforum.at/smilies/b21.gif[/img] This is one lawsuit I don't have a problem with...
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 11:56:06 AM EDT
Just got done reading the article. Each exec got around 5.3 million? That totally blows.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 12:44:03 PM EDT
Did you expect anything different?
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 1:00:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: Did you expect anything different?
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I was hoping the Feds would reopen Alcatraz island for these Enron execs.....
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 1:06:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498: Just got done reading the article. Each exec got around 5.3 million? That totally blows.
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Lay and Skilling made over $100,000,000 combined in 2001. As a former Enron employee, there is nothing I would like more than to see Jeff Skilling roasted over a pit. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 1:07:43 PM EDT
What do you mean "again." That crap about them "losing their life savings because the company wouldn't let them sell their stock" is total bullshit. The stock went from something like $30-40 per share down to $3, THEN and ONLY THEN did the company freeze their ability to sell. Anyone who stayed on that ride that long was ALREADY BROKE. Re these salaries, RELUCTANTLY reported is that IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 1:09:47 PM EDT
Anyone who doesn't diversify...
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 1:13:27 PM EDT
That's my take exactly. Any book on investing, no matter how simplistic, talks about diversification. Sadly, most of these people didn't know squat about their portfolios, and those that did bailed from Enron around December of 2000. I know because I saw several of them leave and they all said "Get out of here while you can." Unfortunately, I was looking when I got laid off. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 1:17:18 PM EDT
I seem to remember a period of time Enron employees were prohitited from selling supposedly because the company was changing plan adminstrators.....thats certainly 'convenient' for the execs who were bailing like crazy now isn't it?
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 1:20:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ECS: I seem to remember a period of time Enron employees were prohitited from selling supposedly because the company was changing plan adminstrators.....thats certainly 'convenient' for the execs who were bailing like crazy now isn't it?
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Please read my post above, whatever the reason, they were frozen AFTER THE WHEELS WERE OFF. The stock was already down like 90% in value. No big conspiracy against the workers.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 2:06:22 PM EDT
They didn't mind when the investment was doing good...the fact is they got greedy and didn't follow one of the first rules (if not the first rule) of investing, diversify. Plus apparantly they just sat there doing nothing while Enron stock started to go downhill...correct me if I'm wrong but Enron was going bad way before the freeze correct? I don't think it happened overnight... Its a shame many of them lost their life savings but hopefully this will be a lesson learned for everyone else in the United States. Diversify...if I recall correctly I believe the rule of thumb is no more than 10% in one company.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:14:24 PM EDT
Awwww, gee whiz, don't that just make you feel all warm and cozy about pure, unalduterated capitalism at it's finest?
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:21:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer: Awwww, gee whiz, don't that just make you feel all warm and cozy about pure, unalduterated capitalism at it's finest?
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Hi Boomer! The corollary to "This is America, anyone can get rich." is obviously, and necessarily "This is America, and not EVERYONE can get rich." As stated above, these bonuses were perfectly legal. I'm very uncomfortable with a government that would legislate maximum salaries.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:26:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer: Awwww, gee whiz, don't that just make you feel all warm and cozy about pure, unalduterated capitalism at it's finest?
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Yes, yes it does. The execs signed on at a certain salary, the other employees also signed on at a certain salary. That $13,520 is for severance pay!! You know...getting paid money even thou they aren't doing any work!! These people are sectrataries and mail type people, not higher ups responsible for other importatnt aspects of running a company. Granted there is a lopsided pay scale but thats life. I am constantly surprised at how many people claim they are conservative and such yet support so many socialist programs (ie Unions & severance pay). Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:26:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87: I'm very uncomfortable with a government that would legislate maximum salaries.
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Me too. I'm also uncomfortable with a government that allows and tolerates corporate fraud, manipulation, and abuse. Because of companies like Enron, my electrical bill is now twice what it used to be. Thanks, guys.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:33:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87: I'm very uncomfortable with a government that would legislate maximum salaries.
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Me too. I'm also uncomfortable with a government that allows and tolerates corporate fraud, manipulation, and abuse. Because of companies like Enron, my electrical bill is now twice what it used to be. Thanks, guys.
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Show me the fraud, I'll help you lock them up. Just because somebody made an asspile of money does NOT mean they committed fraud. Personally, I live in PRK, and the reason MY electricity bills are going up is because of Grey[out] (Hey, I kept the frigging lights on) Davis and his agressive lack of business sense. In a desperate bid to NOT be the guy at the helm when the lights went out, he signed TWENTY YEAR energy contracts at astronomical rates.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:35:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: Yes, yes it does. The execs signed on at a certain salary, the other employees also signed on at a certain salary. That $13,520 is for severance pay!! You know...getting paid money even thou they aren't doing any work!! These people are sectrataries and mail type people, not higher ups responsible for other importatnt aspects of running a company. Granted there is a lopsided pay scale but thats life. I am constantly surprised at how many people claim they are conservative and such yet support so many socialist programs (ie Unions & severance pay). Sgtar15
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Hmmm, I seem to recall you being one of the members saying how you believe that people should be paid strictly based on their job performance (with which I agree to a good extent). So my question is, how are you able to reconcile that belief with your statement above that the Enron executives are deserving of enormous bonuses for running the company straight into the toilet? Something doesn't jive here...
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:36:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Originally Posted By Boomer: Awwww, gee whiz, don't that just make you feel all warm and cozy about pure, unalduterated capitalism at it's finest?
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Yes, yes it does. The execs signed on at a certain salary, the other employees also signed on at a certain salary. That $13,520 is for severance pay!! You know...getting paid money even thou they aren't doing any work!! These people are sectrataries and mail type people, not higher ups responsible for other importatnt aspects of running a company. Granted there is a lopsided pay scale but thats life. I am constantly surprised at how many people claim they are conservative and such yet support so many socialist programs (ie Unions & severance pay). Sgtar15
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Yup, seems like everyone is a Capatalist when they're making money, but reverts to a Socialist when they're losing it or want payback...
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:41:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2002 3:44:40 PM EDT by cgwahl]
Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87: I'm very uncomfortable with a government that would legislate maximum salaries.
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Me too. I'm also uncomfortable with a government that allows and tolerates corporate fraud, manipulation, and abuse. Because of companies like Enron, my electrical bill is now twice what it used to be. Thanks, guys.
View Quote
Show me the fraud, I'll help you lock them up. Just because somebody made an asspile of money does NOT mean they committed fraud. Personally, I live in PRK, and the reason MY electricity bills are going up is because of Grey[out] (Hey, I kept the frigging lights on) Davis and his agressive lack of business sense. In a desperate bid to NOT be the guy at the helm when the lights went out, he signed TWENTY YEAR energy contracts at astronomical rates.
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Yup, Davis screwed us royally. If I recall correctly the power thing was if it goes bad the power companies would feel the brunt of it (kind of a half-assed deregulation to begin with but its a start), but when people complain that it costs more to pay the light bill he decided to pay it instead of letting simple supply and demand do its thing (instead of people thinking to themselves if it costs a lot ot use the A/C use we'll use a fan or something), plus the whole if you don't do it we'll declare bankruptcy, now with what began as a (I think) 6 billion surplus we're 25 billion in the red...
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:46:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87: Show me the fraud, I'll help you lock them up. Just because somebody made an asspile of money does NOT mean they committed fraud. Personally, I live in PRK, and the reason MY electricity bills are going up is because of Grey[out] (Hey, I kept the frigging lights on) Davis and his agressive lack of business sense. In a desperate bid to NOT be the guy at the helm when the lights went out, he signed TWENTY YEAR energy contracts at astronomical rates.
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I never said that just because someone made an asspile of money means they committed fraud. It's already been shown that Enron manipulated that available energy by routing it in such so as to appear that there was a shortage and to gouge it's customers. Don't you finsd it the least bit ironic that the "shortage" has since completely vanished? While it may have contributed to the problem somewhat, I think California's deregulation was just a convenient scapegoat for Enron's activities. In light of Enron's business practices, only a real sucker would continue to believe the deregulation was the prime cause for the shortage that never was. I dislike Gray as much as the next guy, but I have to agree with him the Ken Lay should be sitting in prison with a cellmate named Bubba. As far as the guy buying power contracts, shouldn't power companies/brokers be dealing in good faith rather than manipulating the market and purposely creating panic in the markets? This is what kind of pisses me off about Enron the most. They don't produce anything or provide any real service. They are just a parasite that manipulates the system and ultimately extorts money from people like you and me.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 3:52:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87: Show me the fraud, I'll help you lock them up. Just because somebody made an asspile of money does NOT mean they committed fraud. Personally, I live in PRK, and the reason MY electricity bills are going up is because of Grey[out] (Hey, I kept the frigging lights on) Davis and his agressive lack of business sense. In a desperate bid to NOT be the guy at the helm when the lights went out, he signed TWENTY YEAR energy contracts at astronomical rates.
View Quote
I never said that just because someone made an asspile of money means they committed fraud. It's already been shown that Enron manipulated that available energy by routing it in such so as to appear that there was a shortage and to gouge it's customers. Don't you finsd it the least bit ironic that the "shortage" has since completely vanished? While it may have contributed to the problem somewhat, I think California's deregulation was just a convenient scapegoat for Enron's activities. In light of Enron's business practices, only a real sucker would continue to believe the deregulation was the prime cause for the shortage that never was. I dislike Gray as much as the next guy, but I have to agree with him the Ken Lay should be sitting in prison with a cellmate named Bubba. As far as the guy buying power contracts, shouldn't power companies/brokers be dealing in good faith rather than manipulating the market and purposely creating panic in the markets? This is what kind of pisses me off about Enron the most. They don't produce anything or provide any real service. They are just a parasite that manipulates the system and ultimately extorts money from people like you and me.
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I guess that's what disgusts me about our local energy "problem." You hit the nail on the head, Davis PANICKED. He couldn't stand to be the guy at the helm of the Titanic, so he signed the first thing they put in front of him. If he would have told them to screw off, and let them turn off the lights, the public would have destroyed Enron and anyone else wanting to charge unreasonable rates. Grab a camera and explain in simple terms what they were doing, and BOOM, no more problem. That's kinda the way a FREE MARKET works. The PR alone would have smashed them. Companies would have been climbing over the corpse to sell Kali some power at better rates.
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